Value of Type 1 Lou Gehrig 2130 Streak Ends "Dugout Steps" Photo?
 

Hello -

I currently have a 1939 Lou Gehrig Original Photograph with PSA (expected back in a few weeks) that measures 4.75 x 6.25 from the historic "Dugout Steps" photo of him after he removes himself from the game in Detroit on May 2, 1939 snapping his consecutive game streak.

Stamping on the back shows Chicago's syndicate of the International News took this photo which matches up with the 1939-1940 time frame which should make it a Type 1.

Curious on any thoughts on the value of this photo. As you can see there are some defects but still presents excellent.

Thanks in advance!!!

I have been dealing in photos a lot lately.

I would say the following...

Taking into consideration the following points....... size, clarity, content.

All things considered, I would say this is a $550-$1000 photograph.

The size is smaller than a collector looks for, and the clarity (although it may be your scanner) looks to be missing some. The content is what obviously drives the price up on this photo.

While the market may dictate a higher price based on 2 people having to have it, the value should lie somewhere in that range in my unbiased opinion.

P.S. A slug on the back would definitely add to the photo explaining the historic event.

Is this a Type 1? It looks like a close crop of the actual iconic image. Does that still make it a Type 1 if it's more like a photo of a photo?

I have been collecting Gehrig type 1 photos for the past 7yrs now and the values are all over the place. Depending on where it is listed and who sees it, the values can be ridiculously high or really cheap.

Considering the size, this looks to be a cropped version of the original photo. I think that Stephen's valuation is pretty fair, but you just never know.

Based on the stamp, it's a type 1 but the fact that it's trimmed will hurt the value with photo collectors. Untrimmed it's a $3-$4,000 Photo. Like that I'd agree with the higher end of Stephen's estimate... $700-$1000

Could be a type 3 even with that back stamp.

I'm actually guessing type 3 but I'd send to PSA.

Find a clear scan of it on the internet and compare to the quality of your print.

Too trimmed for me, but the clarity also doesn't appear to be there.

Gehrig Photo
 

Thanks for the comments. It has been with PSA since 11/14 so it should be back here shortly. For what its worth to anyone interested, it will go for sale if it is a Type 1. If it's a Type 3 I will most likely keep it as it won't have as much value to someone besides me.

Guessing Type 3 also. Not a very sharp image.

Wrong place
 

...

This might help: https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=14781

This might help: https://rmyauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=14781

To the original poster: Why not just tell everyone that in the first place?!?! So annoying...

He might have bought it from the person who got it at RMY, and didn't know that's where it came from.

At least I was the one who didn't say type 3 haha I am learning quickly!

Fair enough. But give us the whole story!

thanks
 

thanks for all the insight and tracking down the RMY auction! Should be back from PSA in a few days... not familiar with Vintage 1 Designation by RMY...

From RMY:

VINTAGE 1
This is an original photograph produced from the original negative within approximately five
years of the photographer taking the photo. This is a subjective analysis on the years involved
but offers a better window of time to be safe than other systems which say it is limited to "2
Years" but in many cases authenticate based solely on stamps and back marks would could be used for up to 10 years. We have not arbitrarily come up
with this number. After viewing over 2,000,000 photographs we feel that it offers a better window for paper and back stamp analysis
when concrete dates and paper captions are not present.

thanks Brendan. I looked and it looks like they have a WIRE classification as well. Curious to what PSA will come back with since RMY didn't come to that classification.

Keep us updated, very curious as to what PSA will say. Sticking with my guess of type 3 but definitely could be wrong.

I have the same shot but the more traditional one of him on the steps. And the image is 15 times sharper than this. I now recall when this went to auction and there was something about it that seemed off to me. The fact that it went for under $600 suggests a lot of other people had the same feeling.

Looks like it came back as a type III.

Lou

Still a great and important photo, good luck with the sale!

This may be an ignorant question but how does PSA decide who made the copy. They state it "was made from a 'duplicate/copy' negative by International".

I understand how they decided it was made from a duplicate/copy negative, but I just don't get how they know who made the copy. I know it is stamped by International, but couldn't it have been made by another source and sent to International after the fact?

Type 3
 

Bummed out that it came back Type 3 as RMY and their Authenticity was off but what is a guy to do.

Sticking with my guess of type 3 but definitely could be wrong.

Good call.

And yes, I would definitely be bummed out as well. Even a cursory glance at that blurry picture suggests it wasn't a type I. RMY Auctions are the best though. I'm sure they will assist you.

Just noticed all this thread so I apologize for not coming on sooner. Couple of things just to make this quick as I would have preferred this had gone to me directly rather than go on a public board but its no big deal, discussions are healthy and I have no problem with anyone discussing me or my company publicly.

I will refund the money to the buyer, which I do with any photograph where this type of thing happens and re-examine the photo when it comes back as it was sold a few years ago. It is my suspicion that the (b) qualifier that we use to signify something being off a duplicate negative was simply omitted from the listing, but I honestly cant remember. It does appear from the scan to be what I would call a "Vintage 1(b)" which is a Type 3. I also used the term "in any form" in the description which is usually what I say when something is a slightly inferior example, and I graded it a 4.5/5 for clarity which again lends to the belief that is was supposed to be a 1(b). I have already e mailed the owner and offered a complete refund on the photo. I will re-examine the photo when it comes back but this is my initial thoughts on the photo. If that is indeed the case, I apologize for the situation and will make it right. As a side note, the market has improved so much over the last 2 years that even if resold as a vintage 1(b) it probably sells for more money so at least there is that :)

As a side note, not related to this Gehrig, I want to make a quick statement.
I have authenticated over 30,000 photographs in the last 5 years and have had a handful of returns. Less than 1/1000. I stand behind everything I have ever sold. There is not a single soul on this earth that has had an issue with a photo that has been sold by me or through RMY that was not offered a refund. Period.

Sometimes I make a mistake as stated above, sometimes it is a difference of opinion between PSA and I. I have the utmost respect for Henry at PSA but the thing to remember is sometimes PSA is right, and sometimes my opinion is the correct one. We are all learning and even after viewing approximately 4 million photographs in the last 10 years, I learn new stuff about photography every time I go dig through an archive or talk to photographers or people who worked in the newspaper industry about how photos were received and used etc. Henry and I are friends and I have spoken to him several times about this type of thing on both my end and on the PSA end as well. Photography is tricky and nobody in this world knows everything.

In my opinion, we have to admit that we all cant be perfect and we all cant pretend to know everything. To err is an important human trait. I know more about photos at the end of 2017 than I did at the end of 2016 and by the end of next year after looking at 6 new archives at least and another half million to a million photos, I will know even more than I do right now. Obviously the ball was dropped here and I own the mistake. I try to be thorough as I can, but we are a small operation and sometimes like in any business mistakes happen, especially when it is 3 in the morning and I am trying to get an auction up and running, proof reading 1100 lots as a one-man band! We do however stand behind EVERY photo we sell so if we mess up, it will get made right.

Well, that was not as short as I had originally stated, but I hope that my statements above resolve the situation around the Gehrig and also shed a little light on the authentication front. If anyone wishes to speak with me personally about the industry, its future, authentication (both good and bad) I am always available.

May we all find some kick ass photos in 2018!

Rhys

Rmy
 

That’s pretty outstanding customer service!

Thank you Rhys, I appreciate you reaching out and making this better.

Rhys- Customer service doesn't get any better than that. Thank you.

Kudos to Rhys. Great auctions, even better service. Can't wait for the next one.

I see that the photo was taken down off ebay. I guess we have our answer as to what will happen with it. And Rhys I to believe that is great customer service!;);) A+

I posted elsewhere recently that everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. I have been thrilled with my purchases from RMY and the service is outstanding. But at the end of the day anyone’s opinion is just that. It’s an opinion. Any no one has a perfect track record on anything.

And that is why RMY is my favorite auction house out there!

^^^^^This!^^^^^

Thank you Rhys for running a great auction house. You can't beat the 7.9% buyers premium either!