wet sheet, scrap, ghost confusion...
 

Okay, what is the difference b/w a wet sheet transfer, printer scrap, or ghost image?
Or are they basically the same thing, just calling them different things?

I ask cuz I have an oppurtunity to get an Ames hands over (SC350) with a ghost image of a pretty significant HOF on back.

School me please!

Printers scrap is pretty much any printed thing that isn't intended to be packed and released and is usually hand cut. Multiple backs, poorly/over inked, horribly out of register, missing colors. Of course, all of the above can end up being cut and packed as normal.

Wet sheet transfer is from a sheet not being dry and transfering to the sheet above or below it. Usually with a bit of help from some weight on the stack of sheets. (Don't lean on a bunch of stuff fresh off the press!)

Ghost images can be wet sheet transfers, and the term is usually reserved for really spectacular ones. They may be from other causes, but it's hard to tell.

If the card is impressive visually (Sounds like it is) and priced right don't worry about which of those it is. And please post a scan if you get it.

Steve B

+1

Printer's scraps were sheets that were printed wrong-- off colors, missing colors, mistakes, backs miscut, double print, bad color alignment, other. Scrap sheets were literally or figuratively tossed by the printers into the trash bin, where someone retrieved them and hand cut the cards for their own fun/use. For example, a worker might have brought home a sheet for the kiddie. Thus scaps are usually handcut and often have noticeable printing deficiences about them. A ghost or wet sheet could be one of the errors sometimes.

Though wet sheet transfers or ghosts often to usually appear on issued cards too. In these cases, the cards look otherwise fine and have factory cuts.

In short, ghosts are wet sheet transfers, and whether or not a ghost card is a scrap or an final/issued card is usually determined by the cut-- factory versus handcut.

Also, you will often hear the phrase "probably a scrap." Meaning it's most likely a scrap-- a fair guess. Usually applied to a rough card with printing issues. Being a scrap, aka a factory reject, isn't something to brag about or bring in big $$ premium, so it's not like claiming at auction "probably a proof" or "probably one-of-one" or "probably from the Honus Wagner estate." A dishonest seller looking for your money would make up that it's a proof not a scrap-- unless it's a horrible ugly terrible home computer printer baked in the toaster forgery that can only be reasonably explained as being horrible factory mistake. "Of course it looks little like a real Honus Wagner-- it's a scap. Scraps always look different. Don't you know your printing history?"

It does not appear to be an overprint/underprint but a wet transfer. That being said the transfer is not reversed as you normally would expect. Hopefully better images will be provided and the experts (MRVSTER & others) can give their input.

Alright guys, thanks for the help.
I have been enlightened! LOL.

Anyways, here is the scan of the card. Its the best I could get, Im wating for more from the seller.

Tell me what you think....

Why isnt the image reversed?

And some cards display mutiple distinctions.

An employee of SGC coined this card the "double whammy".

Ghost image and hand-cut/scrap.

I have to give a shout out to Chris and Kristin of Buckler's Cards for the purchase. Very nice people to deal with.

Kllrbee - Interesting card! Who is the player on the front of the card? There is another T206 similiar to yours except that the image on the back is reversed.


Jantz

T206 "wet sheet transfer"
 

Jantz!!!!?? have u been bitten by the scrap bug??!!LOL:D....you are the man Jantz....

Chris!!thanx my bro....Trae, steve, david, jantz....you guys are really the experts!!!..


btw....both of your definitions are SPOT ON;).....

i'm jonsing for some scrap!!LOL

WHY DOES MR> COBB SHOW UP ON THESE "WET SHEETS?"!!!:confused:

anyway, we really need a better scan of front and back....mho...stay away from this card....doesn't look good...blurry....don't think done at factory..


David- printer scraps are "one of ones"..."two of two"....some are 70 x rarer than Honus:D

any of your scraps i'll gladly take at no premuim!!!:D

here's my addy

jvanderbeck@verizon.net


always paying big premuims for these scraps;)

This is a subject that I'm also just learning more about. I've scanned this M. Brown with an Old Mill back. As you can see the Old Mill shows on the front.
I wondered if it was a wet sheet transfer. But the Old Mill back, slightly off center,seems to line up with the image on the front. Is it possible the ink from the back came through? You can see some border on the front also.
Anyway, I'd like some input as to what some members more experienced then myself think....................

Thanks,
Charlie

Charlie
 

Charlie....


Nice wet sheet transfer:).....as stated in above post, this one most likely occured at the factory when the ink wasn't fully dried, then the sheets were stacked one on top of the other.....tolstoi and om wet sheet fronts are most common, especially when the background is real light(yellow, orange).....

i don't think any card has had the ink "bleed thru"....in any set...

sweet card ....strong hof in a t206 oddball....nice card:D

Mrvster, sorry I don't know your first name,

Thanks for the straight info. Makes sense.

Charlie

I would always worry when the ghost on the back is not the same player as on the front. Rob

wet sheet
 

Rob.....+ 1


Charlie, i'm sorry, i'm johnny:)

Ha, nice card.

Coincidentally one of the wagners appears to have an overprint on it.

Coincidentally, I just got a call from a fellow board member (he wishes to remain anonymous, but he is a trusted source) about the overprint. It seems there may be a question as to its authenticity. I can't go into full details, but...

(Ok, Ok - just bustin on you Leon... I know you can handle it).

LOL.....this is a cake walk. Hope all is well Jon...

The Ames/Cobb is a fascinating card.

I wouldn't call it a wet sheet transfer since it's not reversed.
It's also two colors, which shouldn't happen on a card that age.

And it appears factory cut, so probably an example of a scrap that got released.

I've been trying to figure out how it could have been caused, And having little luck. The closest I can get is that a sheet was printed on the wrong side of the paper, but faintly. Either the soft side didn't print well, and appeared weak (Unlikely, since the backs almost always look good) Or both color passes were similarly weak. - A large coincidence.

On a modern two color press it's easy, with old single color presses it's very unusual.

I've also thought about how something like that could be made after printing. And having just as little luck. Short of running a real card through a printer there's no easy way. And a real card with modern printing would be fairly easy to spot in a good scan. Even then it would be a lot of work to get it to print as weak as it is, and in the right place. Other methods should be possible, but would be a huge effort, probably too much for one card.

Steve B
PS- stage 1 of attempting to make an offset transfer as talked about in another thread is underway. The beater is clamped in the vise between paper and a couple boards. I'll leave it there for a while and see if that does anything.

I'd want to see that with at least an "A" grade before I put any money down. I'd request that of the seller.

This is a card that I got a few months back for my type card collection . I don't know if its a "scrap" , wet transfer or the card just got wet. Any thoughts? I just love the way it looks, despite the low grade.

This one always hurts my eyes.

"Fill my eyes with that Double vision":eek:

I love these errors/transfers/misprints/partial cards and the like:o

Thanks Scott. I will forever associate this card with Foreigner :)

interesting shadow

Just like the Brown Portrait, but overprint is in red.

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...le/2858/lobert

A PB wet transfer...

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...itching_tn.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...ing_detail.jpg