O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>david poses</b><p>i am interested in t218 cards- anybody know a forum like this one, which discusses other vintage sports cards? i found one for non-sport tobacco cards, but not for something like this. also, if anybody knows any good online resources, please let me know.<br />thanks.

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Hi David,<br /><br />Not that I know of. Several of us here collect T218, Boxing, and other sports issues. Nobody wants to start the boxing board though cuz we don't have time.<br /><br />Robert

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>As long as the posting board members chime in every now and then it won't be an issue having a boxing thread here or there. I certainly don't mind. A lot of ya'll are collecting this stuff now. I know Brent B, Jay M, and Andy B, Adam W, all collect it and I am sure there are more. So carry on.....please...

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Griffins</b><p>I collect it as well, and it's one of my favorite sets. Prices on nicer condition ones have shot thru the roof in the last year as more people have discovered this set, but that has brought a lot more cards out of the closet as well.<br />As far as resources, your best bet would be Adam's book, and then either post here or email other collectors. They can be found by checking past ebay winners, or the set registries of PSA and SGC.

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>david poses</b><p>thank you. what is adam's book?

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Here's a boxing card website that just "went live" a few weeks ago. Much more content will be added in the upcoming weeks, including a database of cards by boxer: <br /><br /><a href="http://www.boxingcarddigest.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.boxingcarddigest.com</a>

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Griffins</b><p>Adam is Adam Warshaw, a board contributor and expert on boxing cards. His website is <a href="http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/rareboxingcards;jsessionid=hvo4o1q0b2.zebra_s" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/rareboxingcards;jsessionid=hvo4o1q0b2.zebra_s</a><br />you can contact him thru his site to order his book. Highly recommended.

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I did hear a couple of vintage dealers comment that while many vintage cards such as T206s were hot....<br /><br />vintage boxing cards were going absolutely crazy of late.<br /><br />hard to come by, and higher pricing.<br /><br />

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>david poses</b><p>is anobody concerned with the other sports represented in the set or is boxing the big draw? <br />thanks for all the contributions to this thread. i really like these cards and all info is appreciated.<br />d<br /><br />

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>David,<br /><br />I'm personally more into the bowlers, pool players, and golfers then the boxers in the t218 set. Golf examples from that era are very hard to come by.<br /><br />The boxers are quite common. It's a challenge to find a complete checklist for t218. <br /><br />Do you have the roller skater yet? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />Rob

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>david poses</b><p>no roller skater yet- i bought 50 cards (38, with 12 dupes) last night and can't wait for their arrival. all track/field stars. i found a checklist here:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.vintagecardprices.com/set-profile/1595/1910-Champions.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.vintagecardprices.com/set-profile/1595/1910-Champions.htm</a><br /><br />seems to have 153 cards in the set. does that sound right?<br /><br />i'm more interested in the non-boxers. <br /><br />is there a website that has scans of all the cards in the series?

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>david poses</b><p>does anybody make binder pages or toploaders that these cards fit nicely into or do people tend to use standard toploader size?

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Andy Baran</b><p>You may find more expertise on this set on the Non-Sport board. There is someone selling a bunch of them over there right now:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/533292/thread/1165072726/last-1165418894/T218+Graded+F-S+-+Prices+Reduced" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/533292/thread/1165072726/last-1165418894/T218+Graded+F-S+-+Prices+Reduced</a>

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Griffins</b><p>The complete checklist can be found on as part of the SGC and PSA set registries.<br /> I agree with Robert, I like a lot of the other athletes more than the boxers. My favorites are the aviators- the cards were issued 7 years after the Wright Brothers flew over Kitty Hawk, and the guys pictured were truly pioneers of flight.<br /> Jordan (the roller skater) is just scary looking. Edward Weston, a walker, is a very cool card, as are some of the pool players, golfers and bowler.<br />edited to say- David, I sent you a like to a gallery of the set. Check your email.

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p> The T218 set is where most people get started because it is really attractive and readily attainable if you aren't a condition freak. While there are 153 cards (61 boxers plus a boxing referee) in the basic set, as could be expected with T cards from this era, the master set is huge by virtue of brand, factory and series designations. Mecca is the most common brand of T218. Hassan is slightly more difficult to find than Mecca, say on a 55:45 ratio. Burdick accurately reported three brands: Hassan, Mecca and Tolstoi. Over the years later publications “lost” Tolstoi, probably because the Tolstoi back is rare, surfacing only a few times a year. I do not know of any advanced collectors who are close to a full set of Tolstois. Mecca and Tolstoi backs have black print, while Hassan backs are printed in green ink. Collectors also should note that the Hassan cards can run a little narrow in this set. The card fronts also were issued in Canada without back branding by Imperial Tobacco and are designated as C52. These are quite a bit more difficult than the T218 Mecca or Hassan cards, but nowhere near the level of the Tolstois. <br /><br />The Mecca and the Hassan brand can be found with either factory 649 or factory 30. All Tolstoi cards carry a factory 30 designation. There is also a variation in the legend on the Mecca cards. The series situation further muddies the picture. The Hassan and Mecca cards carry either no series designation, or a designation of “series #2, 51 to 100”. Unfortunately for collectors, the same cards pop up in both series with both brands. Not even the Jack Johnson, Jim Jeffries and Johnny Summers cards (each has two cards in the set) are series specific. Accordingly, for each card in the set there may be the following major back variations: Hassan and Hassan series II, Mecca and Mecca series II, Mecca “Series of Champions” logo, and Tolstoi, plus factory variations on the Hassan and Mecca cards. A master group would consist of at least 7 cards of the same fighter.<br /><br /> It may be that the series II cards are 50 reissues from the whole set (including athletes from other sports); I just don’t know. Obviously, a true master set would be quite an undertaking, and is probably impossible given the rarity of the Tolstois. Most collectors content themselves with one of each front, which is how the cards are commonly offered, or one of each front and a type card of each back.

O/T t218
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>We've just started a forum over at the site Mark mentioned www.boxingcarddigest.com, which only discusses boxing cards.<br /><br />The initial members so far come from boards such as this one.<br /><br />There are plenty of people who collect Baseball cards, and as many boxers appear in the same set have also collected the boxing cards.<br /><br />The website was set up for information, as apart from Adam's book and one released years ago in the UK, there isn't anything specifically related to boxing cards out there.<br /><br />On the set itself, I can't really add anything more than Adam already has.<br /><br />David

It states here that Hassans are printed in green ink. Almost all the Hassans I've owned plus the ones I see online are black ink. I saw a green ink yesterday for the first time and decided to look into it further. Imagine my surprise when I find this thread claiming they're all green.

Any new information on this?

It states here that Hassans are printed in green ink. Almost all the Hassans I've owned plus the ones I see online are black ink. I saw a green ink yesterday for the first time and decided to look into it further. Imagine my surprise when I find this thread claiming they're all green.

Any new information on this?

I have about 30 Hassan backs for this set and most of mine are black or very dark green only a few are light green.

http://www.oldbaseball.com/ has a good article about the set in The Library, titled T218s –Just about everything you would want in a vintage set by George Vrechek.

the full checklist is known. Series confusion stems from the Hassan 30 reverse found on all 2nd series cards

Series 1 cards have Mecca 30 and 649 backs and Hassan 30/649 backs. HJ Handy does not exist with either Hassan. He was pulled for the Jack Johnson green card mid way through, it appears. The Johnson green violates some rules all other cards follow. There are 3 name errors that were corrected.

Series 2 cards have Mecca 30/649 and Hassan 30/649 with series 2 51-100 notations. They have Tolstoi backs without a series notation as well (Johnson green has no tolstoi). They also ALL come with a Hassan 30 back missing the second series notation. This is true for every card, and that all 2nd series cards have this series 1 back is why the misinformation and confusion over the series has occurred for many years.

3rd series cards have Mecca 30 and 649 backs only with different series name. The 12 track cards have variations in the caption.

The only questions remaining in the checklist are whether the S P Gillis error exists with a Mecca 30 (some say yes, but nobody can produce a scan) and the cloughan error. I have this card, but it is missing on every other checklist and nobody else has reported one.

They are all green, there are no black Hassan’s in this issue. Cards printed early after refilling the ink are dark green that can look black, but on careful consideration are not. The ink got lighter through a print run, there’s no true variation

But this doesn't address the break down between green Hassan and Black Hassan. I've found all of this information elsewhere. Thanks for trying to help but the question still needs answering, what is the difference in green and black Hassans. Is one more populous than the other, are the differences attached to certain cards are series of cards? Anything to clarify the two color situation would be appreciated!

EDIT: This was in response to your first post sorry.

In response to your second post, man I have owned these and never questioned that they were black. Have a decent eye, but I'll have to grab a couple "black" Hassan's and really check them out.

I thought the same thing for awhile. The inks have aged and it’s sometimes hard to separate dark green from black or brown from black in other issues. Some other issues do have Hassan backs printed in both colors, like the T30/T118 set, but no T218 Hassan’s are actually black. I’ve owned and traded thousands, have never seen a true black

Thanks for that info! It really reduces the number of cards I thought I needed. I had columns on the spreadsheet for all second series with no series number, and Tolstoi for all three series.


I'm not familiar with the errors and variations, is there a place to see that list?

Hey Steve,

Unfortunately, most of the information out there on the forums is incorrect or misleading when it comes to T218. This article, by a Mr. George Vrechek, is mostly accurate: http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.co...-of-the-t218s/ but is missing the Cloughan and some small details. On your master set checklist, Jack Johnson (Green) also does not exist with a Mecca Factory 30, no series notation back.

The only variations (besides brand/factory/series numbers) come in the first series.

C.D. Trubenbach has his name misspelled on the front only as "Trudenbach"

The card of S.P. Gilles spells it "Gillis" throughout the text on the variation reverse, before it was corrected. To make it more complicated, his name was properly spelled "Gillis", so American Lithography accidentally corrected the back, when they should have corrected the front.

These two cards have been rarely talked about but long known, for at least 15 years or so by some collectors.

The third variation comes on the card of Robert Cloughen. His name can be found missepelled throughout the text on the back, just like Gillis, as "Cloughan". I have owned a copy of this card for many years and have never seen another. I have never heard anyone else mention it, or report one. If anyone else knew about this card, they sure kept quiet about it!

The cards were clearly not printed in equal numbers and corrected together at once. "Trudenbach" is the most common error. It's tough, a very small minority of his cards that were printed (if I had to guess, based on what I've seen the last 15 years or so, I would say around 2% of Trubenbach's), but you can find one if you look carefully for awhile. Gillis is tougher, his card will appear for sale very, very rarely and stretches of years have gone by without a single one being publicly offered. Trudenbach has a Mecca 649 and Mecca 30 reverse (I have only seen one with a Fact. 30 back myself, I own it). Gillis is confirmed with a Factory 649 back. Some other collectors have told me they have seen it with a Factory 30 back, but I cannot find anyone who says they own one or has a scan, so it may or may not exist. The single known Cloughan has a Mecca 649 back. I am positive there are other Cloughan errors out there, but it seems the most difficult of the 3 and I would be quite surprised if this card was ever found with a Mecca 30 back. If anyone has these errors, I would love to know which ones you have, especially if you have a Cloughan!

For their great scarcity, the variations carry essentially no increased $ value, as people either don't care or don't know, and master set collectors seem to be almost non-existent for this issue (I'm over 2/3 there, maybe one day!).

In total, there are 637 confirmed cards in a T218 Master Set. This number grows to 638 or 639 if Gillis and/or Cloughan are ever confirmed with a Factory 30 back. These are the only two cards not presently confirmed that I think could possibly exist out there somewhere. I would be shocked if the master set ever grew beyond 639.

If Recurring Print Defects are your thing, McGrath has a variation on his Mecca 30 card with a brightly clear smudge in the lower left border (post 23 here: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=251642&page=3). The hobby seems inconsistent on whether recurring defects are "variations" or not, but it is recurring. 2 Blank backs are known (Rector and Handy, I own the Handy), but in my mind scrap isn't needed for a master set.

The Cloughan is attached; error is bottom middle:

Thanks! I hadn't heard of them at all.

I've made "some" corrections to my spreadsheet that I use as a checklist. :D
I'll have to check if I have any of the good ones.

I finally had time to go through all my T218/C52cards. Of interest to you:

I have:
- Gilles/Gillis with Mecca back, Factory 30
- Trudenbach/Trubenbach with Mecca back in both Factory 30 and 649
- Ruddy with a cool wet sheet transfer on the back

I have never heard of the Cloughen/Cloughan card until you showed it.

- Dave

Thank you for the confirmation on Gillis M30 beyond any doubt! This is the last one I need for my variations subset now, unless someone finds a Cloughan with a factory 30 reverse. I have had the fact. 649 Cloughan for ~15 years or so and have had no luck in locating another. I'm sure there are more copies buried in collections out there somewhere though

I'm looking at my Cloughan right now - it's also a Mecca 649 back

That makes at least two of them out there!