Ending Ebay listings early
 

What is the protocol in asking Sellers to close their listing? It has happened to me on several items I have watched and then the items disappear. Is it ok to ask or should buyers even ask at all? It gets frustrating when one looks forward to bidding on an item and I know there is some offer that would cause a Seller to close the item. How do I proceed? Thanks for any suggestions! Nashvol

If it's something that doesn't come around often and you think it might get offers, ask early. I've had the same thing happen to me so many times, I end up having to "pre-empt" by giving the seller my own offer.

Skip,

Welcome to the boards. You'll probably get a many different answers regarding this subject. Like Gary, I feel it is okay to ask the seller to end an auction early. Others feel differently.

Ive become much more aggressive since joining this board and it seems that it generally never hurts to ask. I believe its within ebays rules as long as the checkout is thru ebay. Some dealers do not resond to them though.

me personally
 

For me personally I won't usually ask a seller to end an auction early if there are bids on the item. That being said it's the wild wild west so .........

Also, if I am not mistaking a seller can legitimately (within ebay rules ) accept an offer on a card, at any time, and put a BIN for the buyer to buy, bids or no bids. I think that is the rule, though not positive and too lazy to search.

And welcome to the board.....!!

I generally get annoyed when I'm asked by a buyer to end an auction early.

I usually answer back politely that the auction will continue to the end. The inquirer rarely even bothers to put a bid in.

Only times I've ended early are on re-lists with no bids and none or very few watchers.

This question comes up periodically and it always reminds me of the Golden Rule I learned as a child: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Asking to end an auction early seems intent on cheating the seller out of a potential windfall as well as denying others the opportunity to bid.

I generally agree that it never hurts to ask the seller if he would consider taking an offer and ending the auction early.

On one occasion, I emailed an offer to a seller and he respond by telling me that I was violating eBay's rules and that he would get in serious trouble if he ended the auction early. He then blocked me from bidding on his auctions.

I guess sometimes you never know!

How is that an intent to cheat anybody? If I make an offer you have the right to accept, decline or do nothing. The purpose of the offer is to deny the others the opportunity to bid. This isnt little league teeball where eveyone gets a turn. Usually my offers are with no bids on an item and usually a relisted one as well though.

I enjoy offers made on my cards...I'd love to have MORE offers made and let the buyers compete that way as well. Offering more than the card would receive at auction DOES happen sometimes so who is this screwing?

I once made an offer and the Seller just raised the opening bid to my offer. :mad:

well-played.

When I was actively selling I never saw that. Every offer I got was at least 1/4 of what the item ended up selling for.

So put me in the camp of those who feel offers are simply lowball offers intended to get the item at a very low price from a seller who may not know what their item is worth.

Adding a BIN is probably within the rules, but my impression from items I'm watching that end early is that they are ended early and sold outside Ebay which isn't within the rules.

Steve B

The only time I think it is suitable to make a offer to end a listing is if you are going to offer a strong amount just to obtain a card because it is hard to find, not to get a special deal on it and pay the seller a fraction of the value. If I forecast a card will sell for 700 I will offer 750 to close it down, just so I do not risk stupid things like my computer crashing or freezing in the last few seconds, or ebay freezing in "Myebay" in the last few seconds, or someone outbidding me by a few cents. All these weird scenarios have happened to me believe it or not! And I swear by being a sniper bidder to prevent other bidders from overbidding. In order to prevent worries, an offer might be a good thing to do as long as your offering a decent amount.

I dont know guys, I didnt realize how bad this is. Ill admit I am wrong.

Whenever I make an offer to end an auction, and it is rare, I am offering what I think the card is worth and am trying to avoid a pissing match at the end, compter glitches, etc and zach said. Ive also made the offer if I find another of the same card and want to see if I can get one of the sellers to go lower than the other. I dont think its morally correct to try and lowball an unknowing owner though...this seems in the same category as finding a box of pre-war cards in a garage sale and spending $10 on them and calling it good.
I have received offers to end an auction early that was more than I had hoped to receive in the end. I wasn't aware of the problem being as bad as it is though. I feel it comes down to intentions and it is NEVER alright to take advantage of someone, but I feel its perfectly legit to try and buy the card before my compitetion realizes its out there and make a fair offer. Early bird and the worm story?

Jeff - I guess it can hurt just to make an offer....and I agree "well-played".

I only ended one early once. i suspected the offer was better than I was going to get if I let the bidding run its course. i could have been wrong, but I am basically a "break even" ebay seller. I sell duplicates and if I break even over the long run, I am happy. This was an offer that tripled my money on the item and decided to go with the bird in hand.

I agreed with a lot of what you said earlier in this thread. It should not be considered morally wrong, and cheating a seller out of money. If a seller lets a $500 item go for $100, well that is the seller's fault not the buyer's fault. When selling on ebay, and especially selling a item one knows nothing about it is best to do research first before selling it. I completely agree with you about it not being the buyers fault. Most people on ebay are adults and should take responsibility for their own listings. In this economy there are people always trying to save a buck, so a seller has to protect themselves by doing their homework first, and not accepting low ball offers.

eBay states that a seller may end a listing early for the following reasons:
1. The item is broken, lost, or otherwise no longer available for sale
2. You made a mistake in creating the listing

Further, eBay states that if you end an auction within 12 hours or less of the auction ending, your only option is to sell the item to the highest bidder if the item has bids. If over 12 hours, you can end the auction and either do nothing or sell to the highest bidder.

Also states, which I find interesting:
Sellers are not allowed to cancel bids and end listings early in order to avoid selling an item that did not meet the desired sale price. This is considered to be a violation of our reserve price policy. Although there are legitimate reasons for ending a listing early, abuse of this option will be investigated.

I have bought and sold on eBay for 14 years, although hardly at all in the past two years. During that time, I have been asked twice to end an auction early, and both times I politely declined and stated that the auction would run until the end.

I see your point Zach and also agree with most of what you said and usually say - I have this story for you.

Im looking for 1915 CJ per norm, notice an HOFer for sale advertised as a 1915 but was really a 1914 with a starting price of 99 cents...informed seller who told me I was wrong, sent another email explaining my logic and reasoning. He ignored me, and I bought the card for about 40-50% of it worth. I felt he needed to know the truth and never understood his defensiveness. I would have thought making him an offer to end early would have been deceptive but we each are responsible for ourselves and actions and this guy obviously didnt know what he had, but nor did he care.
Where is the moral line here? I think we as collectors make our own rules...

I will also say, there have been a few occasions I have continued an auction after getting an offer I believe is probably better then I will ever see by the end of the auction.

Usually on cheaper items. A relative of a subject wants me to end an auction early and offers me more then I expect to get. Generally there's already a bid on the item and I wish them luck in the bidding and tell them there's a good chance they may be able to get it for cheaper then they offered.

Several years back I got an offer for a football trophy, told him I didn't end auctions early but if he bid he'd more than probably win it for less than his offer, and he did.

I'm not into hassles, so if something involves end this, do that, jump through hoop, I'll often pass. On a convenience level, it was easer to just let auctions run as planned.

A common phrase of mine in real life is, "If it's going to be a hassle, I'm not going to do it." Personality defect or strength, I don't know.

Straight auctions run to the end. I used to end them early if there were no other bidders, but my thinking now is that doing that hurts my credibility with bidders in other straight auctions.

Ending early
 

I can tell you that I have been "late" to the party many times on cards I wanted. There were a few auctions running there course a few months ago and after 3 days the auction was ended. There were numerous bids on each so I naturally thought the auction would run its course. I was wrong. Now I will ask if I feel strongly about a lot. If someone takes offense to this they can either not respond to the inquiry or tell me to go jump off a building. If you don't ask you don't get.

Yup we should not be accountable, unless someone maybe mislabels an auction then emails saying they accidentally priced it wrong then I can see helping them cancel it. But if someone is just ignorant then they deserve what's coming. We all want to save money and collect at the same time and if we can get a deal, why think you are doing a terrible thing? The person selling it obviously will be much happier having "X" amount of money instead of the card.

Ebay
 

So in order to never take advantage of a seller, if we see a BIN at a low price, should we email the seller and tell him to bump his price up to current market value???

I get that you are honest and don't want to take advantage of anyone, but if someone lists their product for sale, it is their responsibility to know the facts about their item. If someone came up to me with a bunch of HOF rookies or such and asked for info on the lot and I told them that it is junk, that's where integrity and further issues come into play.

It may be against Ebay rules to ask a seller to end an item early, but how hard is it really just to say "no thanks" and move on. I don't blame anyone who tries to get an item for the price they want. I wouldn't insult the seller with a crappy price, but I don't think there is anything wrong with contacting them and asking. Everyone knows that Ebay is mostly like a huge flea market and the only reason they don't want anyone to use their site to springboard sales offline is because it takes away from their profit.

I only make an offer to end early if it is a tough and needed card I rarely find for a set. My purpose is to pre-empt anyone else buying it outright. If a seller tells me that the auction will run to the end, I email him back my thanks and that I will be bidding, which I always do. I have just done this a few times and usually the seller will put a BIN on the card for my bid.
I used to be in the camp that would never ask a seller to end early but that was before I watched it happen for others again and again.
Again, only on a much needed tough to find card for a set and only if there are no other bids already on the card.

updated story above to read
"Im looking for 1915 CJ per norm, notice an HOFer for sale advertised as a 1915 but was really a 1914"...that was a point lost there.

Mike I agree with you but I did feel the need to inform them of their error in regards to year...my story was missing that line above. Im completely in favor of making an offer to end things early though...

I agree 100% w/Bob...I never used to do it...but lost out too many times. IT has become acceptable practice in my mind as it has become so widespread. I usually offer a fair market price so I don't feel as if I'm taking advantage of anyone and sometimes a seller is happy to get money in his pocket much sooner than waiting for the auction to end!

Buyers who ask sellers to end an auction early are hypocritical to complain about sellers who end auctions early.

Bottom line is, is when I sell items in auction and someone hits me up to end a listing early and it is for a rediculous amount, I do not get mad at them and block them or act like it is a big deal or cry about it.
I seriously find it incredibly upsetting that people actually get mad and bothered by someone making an offer then going to an extreme like blocking them or telling them off. What's the big deal? Just kindly say no to an offer, don't get huffy about it.
Sometimes I feel like some sellers are acting like the "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld. If you say the wrong thing then "no card for you!, don't come back!"
If I get a silly offer, I just giggle about it and kindly pass on it, I don't jump down the throat of the inquirer or act like my poor feelings have been hurt.

First let me say that I would never consider ending an auction early if there are already bids...that is bad form and unfair to the bidders.

I will sometimes end an auction early or add a Buy It Now IF I know that the offer exceeds what I am expecting at auction, there are not many watchers or I have re-listed the item. I will only consider offers, I do not set prices to end the auction.

There was a time when I would never end an auction early and it was amazing to me that person would offer....say 2x the opening price but when they were politely told that I did not end auctions early, they never placed a bid and the auction ended with no bids. This happened on a couple of occasions, so I felt that I was costing myself business and customers.

Jeff

Sellers should not end auctions early and buyers should not ask.

I believe it is an ethical issue. I wouldn't take any pride in sweeping up some item I really wanted knowing that someone else was watching or bidding and also wanted it.

I guess this is a case of the squeaky wheel gets the grease but that does not make it right. I'm surprised how many are comfortable with themselves doing it.

For some categories on ebay, the early offer is almost always how it is done - pool cues, for instance. Ebay rarely gets anything other than listing fees on pool cue auctions. If I ever saw a cue I wanted, I always put a marker bid in, then contacted the seller and asked him to contact me if he decided to sell early. Even then, most auctions ended without me getting a shot.

I'm sure there are other categories that work much like baseball cards used to - mostly straight auctions - but there will fewer of those as ebay moves toward the Amazon model that David described.

As this forum grows, and the bay straight auction deals disappear, we will eventually be ripe for creating our own vintage card/memorabilia ebay clone. We just need enough participants who would trust it as much as they do the auction houses, so that straight auctions could realize decent prices.

[QUOTE=zljones;983664]Sometimes I feel like some sellers are acting like the "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld. If you say the wrong thing then "no card for you!, don't come back!"
QUOTE]

THats hilarious!

As an ebay seller, I don't block bidders who make reasonable amounts that I refuse. However, I have had a few cases, where buyers keep messaging me with offers that are obviously very low. For example, a $300 card which I have sold at that price in the same condition in the past, they keep asking if I would take $100 for it, and then they do this for 3-4 other cards. And they do this every week. And I see that they also sell cards, so it is obviously they are trying to do a quick flip. These buyers are annoying, and I do block them. Some other ebay sellers may see this much more than I do, which may be why their trigger finger is faster to block buyers.

Putting an early offer in does not always benefit the buyer who puts in the offer. Many times it can benefit the seller. For example, this has happened multiple times for me when I list a card starting at .99 cents, and the buyer puts in an offer for $50. My educated guess is that the card will end at $30, so of course, I sell the buyer this card. On the other hand, the buyer wants to make sure he gets this card, and not have some wacky thing happen where another bidder just happens to want this scarce card at the same time. As a seller that's what you balance, the possibility of the auction price reaching higher than the offer price. I assume that this is what happened w/ the T206 Plank that was recently purchased before it could be auctioned off from Sterling.

I know what I'm about to say may shock some people, but there are items on eBay other than baseball cards. :eek:

For example, take a car dealership that lists their pre-owned inventory on eBay. If a customer on the lot with cash in hand willing to pay the dealership's asking price on a vehicle that also happens to be listed on eBay at the same time, do you really think the dealership should turn away the customer with the cash in hand and hope that auction will bring what they're asking (and then hope the buyer is qualified to complete the deal)? And if they did end the auction early it would be unethical? Come on!

I could give many examples such as this from various eBay categories. My point is that you can't have it one way for some categories and another way for other categories.

That I can totally understand blocking. If someone is being an annoying little mosquito and asking the same question over and over, then I can totally see blocking an idiot like that. You should only have to say no 1 time.
That reminds me of when I used to work at a pizza place and these kids from the section 8 area of town kept coming in asking for free water. The owner was first nice enough to give them the water but then they kept coming back for more asking again and again. When we did not pay attention to them they would pound on the counter and make noises and were very rude. They would not buy anything either. Finally my boss said no more water, but they kept coming back anyway and asking again and again anyway and pounding on the counter till he finally banned them and put up a sign saying "NO WATER."
The moral of the story is, is that people that constantly ask for something for nothing after being told NO deserve to be blocked off, so I empathize with your situation. I just can't stand those grumps that snap at a buyer for making 1 polite offer 1 time.

Obviously this situation is not what I was talking about since this is a baseball card forum. However, feel free to create some more strawmen.

Yes, it is a baseball card forum. Thanks for reminding me. So, in other words, it's "unethical" to end a baseball card auction early, but not items from other eBay categories?

And do your morals only apply to pre-war cards since this is a pre-war forum?

Edited to add: Since you pointed out that this is a baseball card forum, let me revise my example to make it baseball card related. Let's say a baseball card dealer owns a brick and mortar store. Like other brick and mortar dealers, he probably relies on other ways to generate revenue other than only retail sales - i.e. mail order, card shows, eBay, etc. Do you think that if that dealer lists a card on eBay, he removes it from his display case during the auction? Or do you think that card remains in the case availbale for sale for walk-traffic? I'm guessing probably the latter. So, if the card is on eBay and a customer in his store with cash in hand wants to buy it at his asking price, should he decline the sale?

Ebay agrees with you. Sellers realize that selling a car isn't the same as selling a baseball card. Heck, selling a pack of 1988 Donruss isn't the same as selling a 1909 Plank, and they both involve cards. But while ebay was once a free-for-all flea market, they are evolving toward a store. Many of their current categories will become irrelevant as sellers find they can make more profit by switching to other venues. Ebay doesn't care.

Short answer -yes.

Longer answer - when I ws actively selling I sold lots of stuff, some I knew a bit about, some I didn't. I also sold in other venues and once I listed something it was physically separated from the non-ebay inventory until the auction closed. The brick and mortar dealer I go to does the same thing, Ebay stuff isn't even in the case. Usually the Ebay stuff is stuff that won't sell well in the shop. A shop that's since closed that did general antiques with some sports stuff used to have a case set aside for Ebay items. All with the item number shown and a laptop setup and running on the counter.

Having been in the car business, I can say that it's often "different" than other businesses. Not necessarily the industry I'd hold out as a moral example, although that's possible when it's done right. I lost sales to shipping damage, factory test drive program, and finally a stock market downturn. (Bonus points if you know the brand and year -it's possible from the last two combined, but you have to really know some trivia)

Steve B

Steve B

I have done this many times. It never hurts to ask and I wouldn't blame them for doing it to an auction I was bidding on either. I made an offer once during an auction and the seller accepted. I thought I paid a fair amount just to get an email a few days later telling me he got a better offer and took that. Part of the game we play:cool:

I don't believe there is anything unethical about asking a seller to end their auction early. I can see where it may frustrate people, but in no way is it unethical. You are not taking advantage of anyone by emailing them, but rather just asking them if they would take your offer on a particular item. If an item has a bid on it, I don't ask to end it early, but that's just me. Usually I email a seller if they have a BIN that I don't quite like the price of and see if they will drop it somewhat. If they don't, I move on with life...it's as simple as that. People that have a problem with this type of activity simply do not have to participate...it hurts no one.

I think David was correct in his assessment and the example he gave.

The same could be said for taking steroids.
Or cheating on someone
Or doing drugs
Or robbing banks.

Wrong is wrong.

Steve B

When the OP first asked this question, I gave my opinion and told him that he would get many different answers on this subject. Now here we are 44 posts later. Steve, I enjoy reading your posts and think you are a great guy, but come on, are you really comparing illegal activity with asking a seller to end an item early?

Key words there Steve is that it HURTS NO ONE. Your examples do HURT people :eek:

I guess it's wrong to throw a curve ball too, right? I mean, since it curves out of the way of the strike zone and doesn't give the batter a chance to hit it most of the time, it should be banned from baseball.

It's just the attitude of justification that anything is ok because it's only "a little wrong" or "since other people do it I have to"

Yes, my examples were a bit extreme except the steroids one. Many of the substances taken were legal and not against baseballs rules at the time. Others could be legally prescribed, and were also within baseballs rules. Probably more within the rules than ending early to sell off Ebay.

And it does harm people, even if only slightly in each situation.
Lets say I plan on bidding $150. but someone sends an offer of $125 and the seller ends early. The seller is out $25, Ebay is out their percentage, and I'm out the opportunity to compete for the card and potentially buy it. (To be clear I'm not including fixed price listings with the make an offer feature, just auctions.)
The first two can be measured, but the third isn't readily assigned a value.
The last harm and hardest to pin down is that after seeing auctions pulled a few times I may be less inclined to watch or bid o anything. And that drives the overall activity down if it's a common enough thing.
There are about 340000 card auctions right now, if only 10% of them are affected by one bid increment of 50 cents that's roughly 17,000 a week or close to 900,000 a year in lost sales just in cards.

The argument culd be made that nobody can know the auction would have brought more. But not knowing something happened doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Steve B

I you want an item, bid on it! Planning to bid at the last second does not constitute a bid. If you do not place a bid, you have no horse in the race. The seller is free to do whatever he wishes with the item (with certain exclusions previously mentioned). If that means accepting an emailed offer, so be it.

Now if you HAVE bid on it, the seller has no idea what your proxy bid is. He (and the buyer) is mitigating the risk as others have stated. The buyer has taken the initiative to find out the price point that is acceptable to the seller. This may be significantly less than what YOU were willing to pay. The only way around it is to contact the seller yourself with an offer.

BTW, this was much more prevalent and accepted back in the day
when "Reserve" auctions were more common. I would receive 5-10 emails per auction asking what the reserve was. Some sellers would list the reserve in the description, in effect telling you "what it would take".

As a caveat, any time I end an auction (to sell), or ask someone to end an auction, I insist that it goes through the ebay checkout process. There are too many scams to risk it. Besides, eBay used to send out "bait offers" and suspend you if you offered to sell offline. Not sure they still do it, but.....

It must be nice to have enough budget to bid on every item you're interested in.
That's not my situation. If it's yours I'm genuinely happy for you.

My watching is usually full, and I place snipe bids manually. On some items the decision to bid or not is made for me by other bidders, exceeding my max early. Sometimes not.
Typically I have a bunch of stuff I'm interested in and something more interesting comes along. So I'll bypass the less interesting ones to place a more solid bid. If I really want something I'll place an early weak bid and then bid my max right near the end. And rarely I'll have a relatively insane bid as a backup. (Bids at usually 8-10 seconds and 2-4 seconds. )

<sarcasm>Nothing is as enjoyable as passing on some nice stuff to commit your entire months budget on something and find it ended early, but late enough that the other stuff has closed. :(

But then there's always some other interesting thing the next few days anyway so it's not so bad.

Steve B

I see you are still upset about those American Beauties Steve. I rarely make offers but the few times I have it's before people bid, if the sellers accepts but people have bid since my offer then I'm still likely going to take the card.