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-   -   1952 Topps Set Break by burlssports ~ Break Complete (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238037)

jburl 04-07-2017 03:39 PM

1952 Topps Set Break by burlssports ~ Break Complete
 
I am happy to offer a 1952 Topps Complete Set group break for $85 $80 per spot if you buy by Sunday night. (Multi-spot discounts available) Check it out for specific rules/scans/condition info.

If you haven't checked out the charity offer, I've extended it through the rest of this week. For every spot sold, I'll give $5 to your choice of charity (4 options available).

Link to listing

PayPal, Check, MO are all accepted.

Free shipping to US if you buy 2 spots.International shipping to Canada is $4 flat for bubble mailer shipping. I'll contact you if you hit a big one.

https://i1.wp.com/burlssports.com/wp...?fit=519%2C825

https://i0.wp.com/burlssports.com/wp...?fit=519%2C825

Overall, the low numbers range from VG to VG-EX condition, with some better and worse, while the majority of the high numbers are in good condition.

Generally, I broadcast the live break 3 days after sell-out to allow time for check/MO payments to arrive.

In the interest of full disclosure, I did pay a fee to place this post in the main forum.

Let me know if you have any questions via PM or at burl@burlssports.com

Thanks,
Justin (Burl) Burleson

swarmee 04-07-2017 06:21 PM

I just bought 2!

1952boyntoncollector 04-07-2017 06:36 PM

The baritrome looks nice...interesting how the baritrome is now a top 10 'key' card to show for this auction and its not just a 'regular' high number..

Republicaninmass 04-07-2017 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1648660)
The baritrome looks nice...interesting how the baritrome is now a top 10 'key' card to show for this auction and its not just a 'regular' high number..


Indeed, seems like even lots that have one get high bids no matter the auction house

jburl 04-08-2017 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1648657)
I just bought 2!

Thanks for jumping in!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1648660)
The baritrome looks nice...interesting how the baritrome is now a top 10 'key' card to show for this auction and its not just a 'regular' high number..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1648665)
Indeed, seems like even lots that have one get high bids no matter the auction house

Yeah - I bought this as a 95% complete set, and it already had the #332, which was a big selling point for me.

jburl 04-11-2017 03:58 PM

Bump for price reduction on this break. Spots just weren't moving, so I knocked $5 off each spot. Partial refund sent to those who bought in at the $85 price point. Thanks!

Link to break

Also, don't forget that I'm giving away a spot in this break. Details here.

swarmee 04-14-2017 03:24 PM

Not sure if you're allowed to advertise it on BlowoutCards.com in their "Spam your eBay/COMC listings here" section, but if you did, I bet you'd get much closer to getting sold. However, since they run their own group breaks, maybe they don't allow the competition.
I grabbed two more today, can't believe there are still 277 slots available!

jburl 04-14-2017 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1650848)
Not sure if you're allowed to advertise it on BlowoutCards.com in their "Spam your eBay/COMC listings here" section, but if you did, I bet you'd get much closer to getting sold. However, since they run their own group breaks, maybe they don't allow the competition.
I grabbed two more today, can't believe there are still 277 slots available!

Thanks for the suggestion. I've reached out multiple times about advertising with them. I always get a "can we talk about this next week" type response. I had a crazy day with family in town yesterday and today. Will work something up to get things moving again. Thanks for buying 2 more spots!

Danny Smith 04-14-2017 07:19 PM

Picked up one. Always great breaks. Thank you!!

jburl 04-16-2017 04:12 PM

Easter Special
 
Hey folks,

In honor of Easter, for every spot bought in the '52 Topps break today through tomorrow, I will give $5 to charity (choose from one of four below).

EDITED: offer extended through 4/22!

American Red Cross

Healing Hands International

National MS Society

St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

What do you need to do? Buy a spot in the '52 Topps break, and put a note in under "Order Notes" during checkout. If you forget, shoot me an email. :) (Also, I'll email you confirmation of the donation after it's made.)

Refer-a-Friend Special

If you refer a friend to who buys into the '52 Topps break, have them note it in the "Order Notes" section, and I'll send you a coupon for $5 off a set break of your choice.

Any questions? Shoot me an email at burl@burlssports.com

Don't forget to grab your spot in the 1952 Topps break!

Leon 04-19-2017 09:41 AM

Good luck with the set break, Justin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl (Post 1651417)
Hey folks,

In honor of Easter, for every spot bought in the '52 Topps break today through tomorrow, I will give $5 to charity (choose from one of four below).

EDITED: offer extended through 4/22!

American Red Cross

Healing Hands International

National MS Society

St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

What do you need to do? Buy a spot in the '52 Topps break, and put a note in under "Order Notes" during checkout. If you forget, shoot me an email. :) (Also, I'll email you confirmation of the donation after it's made.)

Refer-a-Friend Special

If you refer a friend to who buys into the '52 Topps break, have them note it in the "Order Notes" section, and I'll send you a coupon for $5 off a set break of your choice.

Any questions? Shoot me an email at burl@burlssports.com

Don't forget to grab your spot in the 1952 Topps break!


swarmee 04-21-2017 04:40 PM

Who won the free slot?
Surprised to see only 50 slots sold in the past week. Looks like there are bulk slot discounts on the website for those still interested in trying to win a Mantle, Mays, Robinson, Mathews, etc.

jburl 04-21-2017 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1652156)
Good luck with the set break, Justin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1653017)
Who won the free slot?
Surprised to see only 50 slots sold in the past week. Looks like there are bulk slot discounts on the website for those still interested in trying to win a Mantle, Mays, Robinson, Mathews, etc.

Thanks, guys! I'm a bit surprised, too. Multi-spot discounts are available (details in listing). I'd consider steeper discounts if you're looking at 50+ spots in an effort to sell them all.

Break is set for Sunday evening, though, even if I take the remaining spots myself.

Thanks to everyone who has bought in, and thank you for your patience.

Link to break

P.S. David Hubble won the free spot in the break!

jburl 04-23-2017 12:50 PM

Last chance to buy in to the 1952 Topps break! Under 50 spots left, and break is tonight at 9 PM CST. You can view it at this link.

swarmee 04-23-2017 03:45 PM

Looks like it's sold out now. Good luck to all who entered!

jburl 04-23-2017 09:05 PM

Thanks to everyone who bought in. All spots did sell out earlier today. The full results are posted here. http://burlssports.com/1952-topps-co...esults_4-2017/

Thanks again, and if you want to sign up to be on our email list for future breaks, you can do that here.

Republicaninmass 04-24-2017 06:55 AM

Got a high with one of three spots, could have been worse. Thanks again

EYECOLLECTVINTAGE 04-24-2017 07:36 AM

I didn't realize how risky this is hahaha. Thanks god I got 2 highs with my 2 spots, but I saw people with 20 slots get nada. Definitely was a thrill, but I would have been tight with 2 commons for 160 haha

oldjudge 04-24-2017 07:47 AM

A few observations by someone who does not take part in these. I think people running these should be required to disclose their margin on the set. What looks like a good deal is probably anything but. Second, if you want to give to charity do it yourself. The guy running a break, or an eBay sale...., makes it seem like altruism on their part--it's just a way to get you to spend.

bdk1976 04-24-2017 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1653809)
A few observations by someone who does not take part in these. I think people running these should be required to disclose their margin on the set. What looks like a good deal is probably anything but. Second, if you want to give to charity do it yourself. The guy running a break, or an eBay sale...., makes it seem like altruism on their part--it's just a way to get you to spend.



This is the first one I've been in, but I've followed a couple of others.

Just out of curiosity, why should I care what his margin is? I'm going into this with the assumption- and even hope- that he's making a profit providing this service, or I'm guessing these breaks wouldn't continue. The cards available are fully disclosed, as is the price per slot. I can use the provided info to judge whether I find value in participating or not.

As far as the charity thing goes, that's actually a turn off for me- I donate to charities (one of which is coincidentally one of the choices he had), but I prefer to keep business and charitable contributions separate. Don't get me started on the stores that constantly ask/pressure you to donate at the register. Give me a $5 break on the price and I'll decide what to do with the savings on my own.

Republicaninmass 04-24-2017 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE (Post 1653802)
I didn't realize how risky this is hahaha. Thanks god I got 2 highs with my 2 spots, but I saw people with 20 slots get nada. Definitely was a thrill, but I would have been tight with 2 commons for 160 haha



Did you hit the campanella?

EYECOLLECTVINTAGE 04-24-2017 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1653844)
Did you hit the campanella?



Yes thankfully!

Republicaninmass 04-24-2017 10:02 AM

Well ya did pretty good then I'd say

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MW1 04-24-2017 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1653809)
A few observations by someone who does not take part in these. I think people running these should be required to disclose their margin on the set. What looks like a good deal is probably anything but. Second, if you want to give to charity do it yourself. The guy running a break, or an eBay sale...., makes it seem like altruism on their part--it's just a way to get you to spend.

I still maintain that it's an illegal form of gambling for the simple, straightforward reason that money is spent with the expectation of winning something of greater value. In this case, it would be classified as a lottery. Unless the person in charge of the "set break" runs a casino with the proper licensing, is in charge of a legal state-run lottery, or operates as an NPO, there are clear federal and state laws prohibiting this type of "action."

Edited to add: Leon, if I were you, I would stop hosting advertising and promotion of these events...for legal reasons.

Leon 04-24-2017 10:15 AM

You are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW1 (Post 1653849)
I still maintain that it's an illegal form of gambling for the simple, straightforward reason that money is spent with the expectation of winning something of greater value. In this case, it would be classified as a lottery. Unless the person in charge of the "set break" runs a casino with the proper licensing, is in charge of a legal state-run lottery, or operates as an NPO, there are clear federal and state laws prohibiting this type of "action."

Edited to add: Leon, if I were you, I would stop hosting advertising and promotion of these events...for legal reasons.


oldjudge 04-24-2017 10:19 AM

Michael--I agree. It's a derivative form where everyone wins "something". As for the other poster asking why should you care what tiebreaker makes--so you can decide if participating is a good deal or not. If the profit is too high, and you like the concept, it may pay you to get a group of friends together, pool your money, and do a communal break where there is no profit.

MW1 04-24-2017 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1653857)
If the profit is too high, and you like the concept, it may pay you to get a group of friends together, pool your money, and do a communal break where there is no profit.

My thoughts exactly.

Leon 04-24-2017 10:33 AM

I would possibly argue There is no prize. And there being no prize, from my limited understanding, it wouldn't satisfy a tenet of gambling. There is no prize as everyone is buying a card.....yes, it goes to the next tenet of gambling of chance...but we don't get that far as there is no prize. If you guys are worried about it being gambling, don't do it. I am not a gambler either but have bought a card in a break before :). And I received exactly what I bought.... a card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1653857)
Michael--I agree. It's a derivative form where everyone wins "something". As for the other poster asking why should you care what tiebreaker makes--so you can decide if participating is a good deal or not. If the profit is too high, and you like the concept, it may pay you to get a group of friends together, pool your money, and do a communal break where there is no profit.


mighty bombjack 04-24-2017 10:42 AM

Leon has got it there, as this is all about framing. If you are thinking "I'm going to try and get the Mantle," than it seems like gambling. But if you are thinking "I'm buying a random 1952 Topps card," than it is not.

It is fairly easy to correlate this to buying a pack of baseball cards (or, if you will, a pack of cigarettes in 1910 that have a card included). If you are buying it hoping for that long-shot autograph (or, say, a Mathewson in the other scenario), than you are gambling (and would be better off buying the desired card/cards on the secondary market). I know that many, or perhaps most, people buying packs and boxes these days are hoping for that huge hit, but there are still plenty of us that buy a pack of Topps knowing that we are getting ten baseball cards. Might be worth more than my initial outlay, likely worth less, but I'm happy either way because I went into the transaction looking to buy ten baseball cards.

bn2cardz 04-24-2017 10:44 AM

This, as advertised, is like buying a pack of cards. Except you know that there is exactly one of every card in the set in the pack break. The concept of gambling at this point comes down to individual expectations. Did you buy in with the expectation that you will get a Mantle? No you bought in knowing you would get a 1952 card and one of those could be a Mantle.

If I buy a pack of 2017 Topps I don't expect that they should tell me what their ROI is if I buy a pack. They do give me odds of hitting certain inserts, but I have to be ok with the idea I may only get base cards and at that point that is what I am paying for.

oldjudge 04-24-2017 10:45 AM

Leon--What's the difference between the break and a lottery where all tickets that now win nothing win a nickel? In both cases everyone is getting an asset with some value. In the case of the break it is a card, in the case of the lottery it is US currency. The lottery has a currency grand prize, the break has the Mantle. It would be interesting if a lawyer chimed in--Peter?

mighty bombjack 04-24-2017 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz (Post 1653868)
This, as advertised, is like buying a pack of cards. Except you know that there is exactly one of every card in the set in the pack break. The concept of gambling at this point comes down to individual expectations. Did you buy in with the expectation that you will get a Mantle? No you bought in knowing you would get a 1952 card and one of those could be a Mantle.

If I buy a pack of 2017 Topps I don't expect that they should tell me what their ROI is if I buy a pack. They do give me odds of hitting certain inserts, but I have to be ok with the idea I may only get base cards and at that point that is what I am paying for.

We clearly think alike!

mighty bombjack 04-24-2017 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1653870)
Leon--What's the difference between the break and a lottery where all tickets that now win nothing win a nickel? In both cases everyone is getting an asset with some value. In the case of the break it is a card, in the case of the lottery it is US currency. The lottery has a currency grand prize, the break has the Mantle. It would be interesting if a lawyer chimed in--Peter?

Do yo view any difference between packs of sports cards and the lottery? If not, than we will disagree. If so, than extrapolate that difference, and you have the answer to your query.

bdk1976 04-24-2017 10:51 AM

Again, why should I care if the person running the break paid $100k for the set or paid 1 cent a card out of packs back in '52?

Of course one could get a group together, pool their money, buy a set, and put on their own break- nothing is stopping anyone from doing that. Personally I'd rather pay a premium for slots in a break run by someone else who is taking on the risk by investing their capital in a set and putting in the time to get things set up, ship cards, etc.



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frankbmd 04-24-2017 10:54 AM

I don't participate in set breaks because I am exceedingly unlucky, but the discussion is of some interest.

If I am at a crowded craps table and roll the dice, somebody always wins. Admittedly sometimes it is only the house. In the long run it is always the house.

In a set break the slots are sold by the house and unless the house undervalues the slots, the house always wins again.

The profit margin in both cases is extremely relevant for the participant to consider before either rolling the dice or buying a slot.

The difference between a 2% margin and a 20% margin is ten fold. With the higher margin you will find me in the parking lot a lot sooner, either with empty pockets or a couple of commons in my pocket.

The difference between the two is a matter of semantics.

I would add that you will never see me at a craps table either.

Leon 04-24-2017 10:56 AM

If the house wins then no one won. Some set breaks lose money too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1653877)
I don't participate in set breaks because I am exceedingly unlucky, but the discussion is of some interest.

If I am at a crowded craps table and roll the dice, somebody always wins. Admittedly sometimes it is only the house. In the long run it is always the house.

In a set break the slots are sold by the house and unless the house undervalues the slots, the house always wins again.

The profit margin in both cases is extremely relevant for the participant to consider before either rolling the dice or buying a slot.

The difference between a 2% margin and a 20% margin is ten fold. With the higher margin you will find me in the parking lot a lot sooner, either with empty pockets or a couple of commons in my pocket.

The difference between the two is a matter of semantics.

I would add that you will never see me at a craps table either.


oldjudge 04-24-2017 10:56 AM

What is an Illegal Lottery?
A lottery includes three things: (1) chance, (2) prize, (3) and consideration. To successfully run a contest or sweepstakes and not an illegal lottery, you must eliminate one of these factors. A contest, for example, eliminates chance and a sweepstakes eliminates consideration (typically an entry fee). You must be careful, however, that you are actually eliminating one of the three factors.

mighty bombjack 04-24-2017 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1653877)
I don't participate in set breaks because I am exceedingly unlucky, but the discussion is of some interest.

If I am at a crowded craps table and roll the dice, somebody always wins. Admittedly sometimes it is only the house. In the long run it is always the house.

In a set break the slots are sold by the house and unless the house undervalues the slots, the house always wins again.

The profit margin in both cases is extremely relevant for the participant to consider before either rolling the dice or buying a slot.

The difference between a 2% margin and a 20% margin is ten fold. With the higher margin you will find me in the parking lot a lot sooner, either with empty pockets or a couple of commons in my pocket.

The difference between the two is a matter of semantics.

I would add that you will never see me at a craps table either.

These are very good points, and the last one is the best of the bunch. By that, I mean that there is a huge difference between saying "people who do breaks like this should have to divulge their profit margins" and "if he doesn't say what the overall set is worth, I'm not participating." No one should argue with the second statement.

mighty bombjack 04-24-2017 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1653879)
What is an Illegal Lottery?
A lottery includes three things: (1) chance, (2) prize, (3) and consideration. To successfully run a contest or sweepstakes and not an illegal lottery, you must eliminate one of these factors. A contest, for example, eliminates chance and a sweepstakes eliminates consideration (typically an entry fee). You must be careful, however, that you are actually eliminating one of the three factors.

Do you think this was an illegal lottery? As Leon said, there is no prize form the point of view of the law, because everyone gets a 1952 Topps card. Some are more valuable than others, sure, but that is no different from sports cards that are sold in packs in general.

It is interesting to note that Topps has a "No purchase necessary" program to help in the very law that you describe ( it is arguable whether or not they need it), and further that the set breaker here had an opportunity for a free slot in the break. One wonders what his motivation for that was...

oldjudge 04-24-2017 11:14 AM

Yes, I think it is an illegal lottery. However, I am not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV) so consider that when weighing this.

frankbmd 04-24-2017 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1653878)
If the house wins then no one won. Some set breaks lose money too.

Leon,

Both scenarios can be considered zero sum games.

X dollars in = X dollars out

If the house winning doesn't "count" to you, then next month there would be no casino.

If a set break loses money (?), then next month there probably will not be another one.

The incentive for both activities is a guaranteed profit margin.

bn2cardz 04-24-2017 01:26 PM

Ok. My perspective may have changed after doing more research and thinking more.

As mentioned I did equate this to packs of cards, but there may be a thin line of legality here. Even so it was mentioned that the insert cards can be attained through "no purchase necessary" making it seem that even their lawyers knew this was a fine line.

CA (though I don't live there) has specifically come up with a "Grab Bag" law to pertain to this type of issue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA PENAL CODE
319.3.
(a) In addition to Section 319, a lottery also shall include a grab bag game which is a scheme whereby, for the disposal or distribution of sports trading cards by chance, a person pays valuable consideration to purchase a sports trading card grab bag with the understanding that the purchaser has a chance to win a designated prize or prizes listed by the seller as being contained in one or more, but not all, of the grab bags.

Of course this is a debate about legality not whether I agree with the law.
Now I know that is just one state, but it does mean that it is at least illegal for a portion of the people reading the board. I would have to do more research to see if any other states have similar laws. Either way I just wanted to state I have now changed my perspective given this new information.

jburl 04-24-2017 02:51 PM

Hey guys,

I know we've talked about this before, and I've said something similar before. If you're not comfortable with it, certainly don't do it. For what it's worth, here is the way I see set breaks:

1. You are buying a card from a specific set.
2. The value of the card you happen to get determined by a secondary market.
3. Given 1 and 2, I see set breaks like this similarly to what card companies do when they create a product - some cards have higher demand or lower supply (or both), and are therefore worth more on the secondary market.

The difference is that set breakers are not creating the product; they're outsourcing from several decades ago.

This, of course, is all just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, and I do have skin the game.

P.S. I do give away a spot in each of my breaks. Does that eliminate consideration? I don't know. I feel like it's a fun way to spread the word - if it helps with the consideration piece, then that's great too.

MW1 04-24-2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl (Post 1653978)
Hey guys,

I know we've talked about this before, and I've said something similar before. If you're not comfortable with it, certainly don't do it.

What's "it?" Repeatedly participating in an illegal gambling scheme?

bobbyw8469 04-24-2017 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1653878)
If the house wins then no one won. Some set breaks lose money too.

I have never seen a set break lose money. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the person running it knows what they paid for the set, and sets the price per card for the break.

MW1 04-24-2017 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl (Post 1653978)
Hey guys,

I know we've talked about this before, and I've said something similar before. If you're not comfortable with it, certainly don't do it. For what it's worth, here is the way I see set breaks:

1. You are buying a card from a specific set.
2. The value of the card you happen to get determined by a secondary market.
3. Given 1 and 2, I see set breaks like this similarly to what card companies do when they create a product - some cards have higher demand or lower supply (or both), and are therefore worth more on the secondary market.

The difference is that set breakers are not creating the product; they're outsourcing from several decades ago.

This, of course, is all just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, and I do have skin the game.

P.S. I do give away a spot in each of my breaks. Does that eliminate consideration? I don't know. I feel like it's a fun way to spread the word - if it helps with the consideration piece, then that's great too.

Justin,

Here's the law in your state.

Of importance: "(5) 'Lottery' means the selling of anything of value for chances on a prize or stake..." and "(6) 'Profit' means anything of value in addition to the gambling bet."

Leon:

39-17-503. Gambling promotion.
(a) A person commits an offense who knowingly induces or aids another to engage in gambling...

mattjc1983 04-24-2017 03:34 PM

1952 Topps Set Break by burlssports ~ Break Complete
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jburl (Post 1653978)

2. The value of the card you happen to get determined by a secondary market.


This is an interesting point. Most lotteries/casino games are set up with a prize of stated value (trip, car, etc.) or a set dollar amount (which, while subject to inflation/deflation, is reasonably steady).

Trading cards have no stated value, even when they're brand new. It's entirely determined by the resale market, and this can (and does) vary widely compared to cash or a prize which is immediately consumed (e.g. trip, car).



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stlcardsfan 04-24-2017 03:35 PM

I have participated in set breaks with less than stellar results. I think they are fun and I am all for them.

mikemb 04-24-2017 04:26 PM

I have participated in many of Justin's set breaks. They are fun and I have added some nice cards to my collection. Justin does a great job in doing the break and there is probably a lot of work he does that goes unseen.

I know going in what I may get or not get. What his profit is or isn't is not relevant.

If you don't like set breaks or your chances or think they are illegal, don't participate.

Mike

nrm1977 04-24-2017 09:49 PM

I've got no problem with this set breaks at all. You're guaranteed a card in one of these breaks; you just don't know what card it will be. No difference in buying a pack of cards, IMO. I don't feel a person constructing one of these breaks should have to disclose his margin. No different when you're buying a single card from someone.

On a side note, I feel those case breakers are more along the lines of gambling as you're not guaranteed to get a card but, that's a whole different "can of worms".


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