Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Rick Swaine</b><p>I know this has been discussed before, but I'm new to this board and wasn't able to find a consensus from researching past posts.<br><br>My question is: What's the problem with re-trimming cards that were originally hand-cut down to their originally intended borders? <br><br>For instance I have a 1910 Orange Borders that looks like it was cut out by a six year with a blunt axe 99 years ago. The card is a little rough anyway but the ragged, crooked excess border (at least 1/8 inch all the way around) really detracts. I've no intention of selling or slabbing this card myself but I would like to improve its appearance without destroying its future value to the hobby (or my heirs).<br> <br>It seems to me that the consensus on the soaking issue is: &quot;If someone can tell - you shouldn't have done it!&quot; <br><br>Is this the same thing?<br><br> <br><br>

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Frank A.</b><p>Your going to get 50 different responces to this question, so here mine. I have retrimmed cards thet I am going to keep and am very happy I did. It makes them look a hell of a lot better so I appreciete them more. Why look at a raged card if you can fix it up a little. And later if you want to get it graded it will most likely come back as authentic. Personally I see no harm in it. Just don't get to carried away. Frank A.

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Marty Ogelvie</b><p>As long as you disclose the alteration when you resell the card, I don't see any problems with it. Trimming has a stigma because it has been used to increase a cards value without the buying being aware. A trimmed card or authentic card would typically have far less value than a numerical graded version.<br><br>marty

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have never re-trimmed a handcut card but I don't have an issue with it. It was trimmed in the first place. For the millionth time this is one of my pet peeves in grading. Handcut cards should either have a numerical grade and &quot;Handcut&quot; qualifier or they should only be AUT (best choice). Just my opinion....

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>S Gross</b><p>I have many boxing strips that could be re-trimmed. I have no problem with doing it, I just choose not to do so. Why? I like the look of the of a 1920's era kid folding and ripping a strip up, while all his friends are standing around jealously watching.

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Jamie Boneparth</b><p>My opinion would be, don't do it. I believe that the best thing to do is to leave it in the condition you found it. Yes, the card was originally hand-cut, but that hand-cutting was done ninety years ago and is part of the history of the card. To retrim is tampering with it. Yes, the card may have been hand-cut originally, but the act at that time was one of authenticity.<br><br>That is just my opinion. Perhaps you would get more for the card if you re-trimmed it, I do not know. But as a buyer, I would not have any interest in a re-trimmed hand-cut card.

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?<br><br>No.<br><br>

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>We are the knights that say &quot;NIH&quot;<br><br>don't do it

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>I have no problem with it, but would appreciate disclosure for those who are concerned.

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I am with Leon and Frank A on this. I have maybe done 1 or 2 myself to try to enhance the appearence in my binder over the years but truthfully, I wasn't that impressed with my work so I just stopped. As a buyer on a strip card I wouldn't care if it was cut in 1920 or 2006. handcut is handcut and none should receive a numerical grade, just authentic. Dan

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>I don't see a problem. Cards with clean edges and proper borders look a lot nicer. Besides, they were meant to be cut out. If you want them as factory issued, you have to stick with uncut materials. Otherwise, they've all been cut already. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>My vote is &quot;no&quot;. Does it matter whether the card was hand cut or factory cut? I'm sure that the printer did not intend for factory cut cards to leave the factory with miscuts, centering problems, oversized and undersized cards, ghosts, etc. so why is it taboo to trim an oversized T206 but it is OK to trim a W card? If the original factory cut was incorrect, then it should be left alone and if the original hand cut was incorrect, then it should also be left alone.<br><br>You can do what you want with your own cards, but when you sell a card that has been re-cut then you should disclose the additional trim.<br><br>With that being said, when I see some of the Post Cereal and Jello cards with huge borders, I start thinking about trimming them back to the intended size.<br><br>That is my opinion, but keep in mind that I am old and senile.<br><br>Rick

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>between hand cut cards like W issues and factory cut cards like T206. Strip cards were issued in sheets or rows and meant to be cut into individual cards. The question posed was whether it was OK to clean up some kid's bad scissors job from 1927, not whether it was OK to repair a card that left the factory incorrect. There is no reason for differentiating between a kid's cut and your cut. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Depends, cards with a dotted line that were originally cut<br>well outside of the line can be trimmed to the line.<br><br>If you trim an already hand cut card beyond its specs then<br>I think you have damaged the card.<br><br>So, I guess my answer is 'depends'<br><br><br>Steve

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Rick Swaine</b><p>Thanks for the input on this subject. Philosophically I agree with those who think it's OK to trim a hand-cut card down to its intended borders. Since others feel strongly about it, however, I would feel obligated to disclose if I sold such a card. The problem is that advance disclosure assures a low ball price even if the buyer is someone who doesn't care - or worse - someone who buys it with the intention of reselling it without disclosure. After all there's no legal or practical reason to expect your disclosure to be passed on if the card changes hands again.<br><br>What are some thoughts on the following? <br><br>List or bargain for the card without disclosure then disclose after the deal is done and the buyer has a chance to examine it. Of course a full refund would be offered if the the buyer is not satisfied. <br><br>

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It would be better to disclose up front but as long as a refund option is given then I see no issue. I still don't know (and don't believe)how a grading company can tell a handcut card from yesterday or 80 yrs ago...except in certain situations.

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The obvious key is that the Wheaties cards and such are supposed to be handcut-- unlike a Topps or Goudey. My opinion is one should leave well enough alone. If there is a case, however, where there is ample border room and the card looks like the 1920s kid cut it with his pet rat, I'm not a zealot on the issue. Original state butt ugly, it still butt ugly. <br><br>How about this for a compromise, you can re-cut one of these cards, but, if you do, you have to use period scissors and/or have your seven year old do it. If you have the guts to have your seven year old kid cut your $10,000 Joe Jackson with a pair of 1910s scissors-- go for it.<br><br>Seriously, my usual rule for alterations of art or collectibles is, financial gain alone is not a valid reason for doing it. If your only reason to alter a Wheaties card is to make money leave the card alone.<br><br>Another thing is, like the crayon coloring in a kid's coloring book, the edges of one of these cards is supposed to look hand done. For a collector of these cards, it shouldn't look right or be right if the card looks like it was factory cut by Topps. Factory perfect edges and corners shouldn't be a desired quality.

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Rick McQuillan</b><p>Leon, I have the same question. Can someone really tell when the card was cut? I doubt it.<br><br>David, a 7 year old could probably make a nicer cut than I can. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"><br><br>Rick

Consensus on re-trimming hand-cut cards?
 

Posted By: <b>Paul Kaufman</b><p>I think re-trimming is fine, BUT I wish the grading services would get their act together and only grade these hand-cut cards as AUTHENTIC. Putting a numerical grade on the holder does not make sense in the case of hand cut cards.