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T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY....updated
In a another thread the subject of centering on the Green portrait Cobb cards came up. I stated if centering is important, then the collector
should avoid the PIEDMONT 150 version of this card. I've observed that approx. 95 % of the Green Cobb cards with the PIEDMONT 150 back are off-center to its top border (as my Cobb, shown here). Most of the other green Cobb's with PIEDMONT 350, or SOVEREIGN 150, or SWEET CAPORAL 150 or 350, or OLD MILL will be found centered. Note....SOVEREIGN 350 does not exist. Listed below are links to 9 of the PIEDMONT 150 green Cobb's currently on ebay....8 are of these Cobb's are off-center and one is somewhat centered. We'll start this survey with these 9 and we'll include mine. How about including your Green Cobb in this survey ? 9 = PIEDMONT 150 (off-center) 1 = PIEDMONT 150 (somewhat centered) 0 = PIEDMONT 150 (centered) <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ap150greencobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ......\.......... PIEDMONT 150 ........../ Ebay listing of PIEDMONT 150 green Cobb cards........ PIEDMONT 150 green Cobb (off-center to top border) http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-T206-Ty-Cob...-/220288300436 http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Ty-Cobb-Por...-/130413105728 http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-11-T206-Ty-...-/130497217597 http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-T206-Ty-Cob...-/220552474347 http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-T206-Tobacc...-/370464979329 http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-TY-COB...-/190512374081 http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Piedmont-Ty...-/320650424267 http://cgi.ebay.com/1090-t206-TY-COB...-/110493841784 PIEDMONT 150 (somewhat centered) http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-TY-COB...-/220743079596 So guys, show us your Green Cobb's....any back is welcomed. Thanks, TED Z |
Ted,
Here's a Sweet Cap 350 that I owned until recently...well centered I'd say. Don't have any Piedmonts to contribute to the survey, but it's an interesting phenomenon that I hadn't heard of before. Brian http://i.ebayimg.com/16/!CCsJfNQBWk~...EpJS!~~0_3.JPG |
Chalk up another off-center
Here's mine, which is a Piedmont 150 back:
http://www.sgccardregistry.com/cards/us186324.jpg |
Ted,
Once again leading statement insinuating you have seen 100% of all Green Cobb’s. A dozen on eBay or even 40 here is not a total sum of a card or collecting market. Contrary to your thoughts Ted the hobby is beyond and has been beyond that of the Net54 members. If you were to poll me on my find of T206’s (1000+ cards) as a kid I would have told you Sweet Cap was the most common as most of them were SC. In my experience that wouldn’t have been false either but it’s not a sum of an issue or the collecting community’s experience. Take the back survey scarcity list Jim R did. Even Jim stated after years of research that the final list was based on his personal experience. While the list had merit and for the most part was solid once you got to number 15 on the list anything above that could change per collector based upon his or hers collecting experience. Nobody is challenging that a larger majority of P150 Cobb’s come off center. What I am calling you out on is this arbitrary number that you pull from nowhere and claim as fact. A survey here isn’t going to clear up or prove your statements either. Unless you pool all Green Cobb’s in a room one can’t make statements like the below unless they add the following prior to the comments below “In my experience”, “from what I have seen” or “In my opinion”. "Approximately 95 % of the Green Cobb cards that have the PIEDMONT 150 back are off-center as mine is (shown here)." “I've observed that approx. 95 % of the Green Cobb cards with the PIEDMONT 150 back are off-center to its top border (as my Cobb, shown here).” Here’s another P150 that is centered more…that’s 2 out of 10 currently right now on eBay not over dozens of year of collecting that’s already more than 5% Ted right now today on the eBay. :confused: http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...uge/150qus.jpg http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Piedmont-Ty...item4aa8412fcb http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-T-206-...item230f26a5f1 http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-PIEDMONT-TY...item1c1a3edef5 http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-T206-TY-COB...item33655016ac Ted I stand behind my comments seen here… http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=134335 You have yet to address them and in your usual self proclaimed T206 expert role and traditional Ted Z bull headed fashion ignore other advanced collectors inputs for pursuit of your own glory. Nobody is saying that these cards are not found OC most of the time. What I am saying is you can’t just go around making educated guesses and presenting them as fact. Just because you believe in a theory or have experienced something as a collector doesn’t mean that is the standard in which all cards fall now under no matter how many times you type it or survey it. I find all this rather amusing Ted as little as about 5 years ago you were asking Joe P (RIP) what back his Doyle variation had. Now today you're the Net54 T206 expert? Ted I’m telling you this board is going to your head…I still love ya but I can see how folks butt heads with you on these topics. :) You really only tend to see your side. Cheers, John P.S. We can debate more over a beer and that sweet AB460 set in Oakes can’t wait to see that. I’ll give you credit an AB460 set certainly puts you up there on T206 hero status has to be a first. Now if we can just get you to not put everything as fact. :) |
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Ted
no scanner cobb green sc 150 off center cobb green sc ?(paper loss) off center drew |
While it may be somewhat helpful to start out by looking on eBay, it may
skew your results. Most of those green port. Cobbs on eBay will likely have been on eBay for some time now, thus being of the "less desirable" variety (ie. off center, weak corners for the grade, etc). You'd have a hard time finding a nicely centered card amond the slew of "buy it now" lots that now dominate that site, regardless of back. Still, I find this survey interesting, and will jump at every opportunity to post a scan of one of my cards. :) This may be the first "centered" Piedmont 150 to take part in this survey, although some may deem it "somewhat centered", depending on your mood. ;) http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3...encobbdual.jpg |
I've not seen 100% of the green Cobb cards. No one has. Not even someone who worked at American Litho, I'd think.
But I have seen a few. And I've had my eyes open and I've been paying some attention to certain old ball cards. It sure seems to me that an unusually high number of green Cobbs have that centering shift. Bunches of them... And even if I've not seen 100% of them, it's still the truth. And I don't think the eBay cards skew the results. Price is a factor. It isn't just ugly cards that stay on eBay for a long time. Cards with a high price do, relative to what they are, ugly or not. It's about the money. |
whoops... nevermind :) thought I had found another one on eBay
that wasn't on the original list. |
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Heres mine, looks good to me. Piedmont 150 back.
Joe |
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"jcmtiger" That is the best looking Cobb I have ever seen! Wow thanks for showing, look at the huge borders on that card glad to see one escaped the knife, thanks again for posting. |
Joe- wow! I have never seen a green cobb with borders like that! Email me or call me for a deal! Thanks-kevin
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Joe==Wow! That big border Cobb is as good as it gets.
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Center question
For the Cobb cards that are either high or low from center are there names from the card above or below visible could the cards indicate a common placement at the top or bottom of the sheet ?
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This the most centered Green Cobb I have. In fact, the pin hole seems to be almost dead center :p
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Posting centered green Cobbs doesn't prove much of anything other than there are centered Cobbs. Well I can see that it might prove something about the folks posting them...
What would be interesting would be to see scans of lots of green Cobbs, bunches of them. And when they are shown, it will show that lots of them are off center. 95% might be high, but a great percentage of them are off center. And printing a few that aren't... well, I've already mentioned the two things that could prove. |
Although it might seem redundant by now, I'd also like to express my
amazement at the beauty of Joe's big-bordered Cobb. It almost looks like an E card. Incredible! (thanks for posting the scan) |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY
Thanks guys for your inputs, the results of this survey will be updated tomorrow. Some really nice looking green Cobb's on display here.
TED Z |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY
John McDaniel
Lets start with this comment of yours........ " Nobody is challenging that a larger majority of P150 Cobb’s come off center. What I am calling you out on is this arbitrary number that you pull from nowhere and claim as fact. A survey here isn’t going to clear up or prove your statements either. " FYI....I started collecting T206's in 1980 (when Bill Heitman's book came out). In the 31 years since....I've put together FIVE near complete T206 sets [521 cards....520 cards....all-Piedmont (519 cards)....all-Sovereign (408 cards)....and an all-Sweet Caporal Factory 30 (467 cards)]. In the process, I observed and recorded a lot of information regarding certain patterns in the T206's. So, your comment .... "ARBITRARY NUMBER THAT YOU PULL FROM NOWHERE" ....is so full of horse-crap that it shows that you really don't know from what you are talking about. But, I do know who is feeding you this crap. And, this surprises me since I thought you were a strong-willed man who wasn't swayed by capricious gossip. Furthermore, this comment of yours is most laughable for it is not a Wonka original, but a comment fed to you from we both know who. Who has taken it out of context, since it was a private telephone conversation between Joe Pelaez and me........ " I find all this rather amusing Ted as little as about 5 years ago you were asking Joe P (RIP) what back his Doyle variation had. " Again FYI......I simply asked Joe Pelaez about his Joe Doyle card since at that time a Doyle error card with a POLAR BEAR back had been PSA graded. I knew that the Doyle error was printed with the PIEDMONT 350 back when Bill Huggins had found one back in 1986. So, I was just trying to confirm what I already knew in light of this graded fake Doyle card. A simple phone call to me regarding this scenario; and, I would've clarified it for you. Instead, once again you bought the bull-crap that was fed to you by others in order to discredit me. I guess that you must be their "mouth-piece" ? But, now you are the one looking like a fool for repeating such a fallacy. And, don't try to deny this....because this very comment of yours reveals to me exactly who is behind this vendetta. If you are going to go public on this forum with these accusations (fed to you from certain people who don't know what the freakin' facts are), then I have lost all respect for you. I thought you were above this mud-slinging "bull-crap". At least you could have given me the courtesy to discuss such matters with me, before airing them out in this thread. MY CONVERSATION WITH YOU ENDS RIGHT HERE............ Incidently, if anyone is interested in the "back-story" on what has transpired here, you can email me at...... tedzan11@comcast.net TED Z |
Thanks for the nice comments on my Green Cobb. I bought the Green, the Bat off and the Bat on from the same seller about 20-25 years ago. I still have the paperwork, not in hand right now.
Joe |
Wow !!!
Hi Joe-
I'd also like to say that your Green Cobb is for sure the nicest example I've ever seen !!! That is a beauty !!! :eek: Stunning !!! Also love everyone else's examples also....I can't wait to get one of my own :D Sincerely, Clayton |
Ted,
I just got finished watching the roast of Donald J. Trump. I thought to myself wow could there be anyone with a bigger ego who is more removed from reality by spending hours telling everyone around them how smart they are and in the process truly believe their own hype. Then I come here and read you post and my question is answered. :rolleyes: Ted you and I have talked cards many times on the phone we discussed Joe’s card many times even in person when we rode up to the Levy’s house together in my car with Scott M ring a bell. :confused: As for what you have collected since when and have all these sets blah..blah..blah..yes Ted you are a god and all of us other collectors are idiots. Oh please Ted don’t beat up on little ol’ me I don’t know nothing about no baseball cards. (Please save the Ted’s greatest hit list for somebody who’s buying it.) However since you want to make it more personal lets… For the record my prior posts which prompted this blast from you were simply about you pulling or making numbers from thin air on Green Cobb’s. But let’s go ahead and talk shop on other stuff since you seem inclined to throw down tonight. Ted I have watched you talk to fellow collectors who dare oppose your collecting POV’s or wacky theories with snide shots and outright condensing attitude. Folks who simply say they don’t agree with your thoughts are brushed off. The poor folks who present solid arguments to the contrary of you point of view are labeled idiots or morons privately or in a roundabout way right here in print. Case in point my observations on your 95% number proves I know nothing about T206's....right...thanks I guess... In fact for the most part the only guys who don’t question every drop that comes out of your brain and spilled into this forum are the ones that are too afraid too or have been blasted by you or don’t know any better. BTW where did a lot if not the bulk of you knowledge come from...oh that's right other collectors like myself, Art M, Scott R, Jim R, Dan M, Tim C the list goes on and on... You expect everyone here to pay you respect on each nugget of info you toss in print. However you don’t offer half of the collectors here the same courtesy. In fact lets talk about how you really view most of the folks on here shall we? That's the least we can do as you rally for thier support. :mad: Here’s another question you will skip over and a good one for the readers as well. Remember the phone calls to me asking for support to help you wrangle in the idiots on here Ted each time somebody made the mistake to not agree with you on a post? You know the ones where your like Wonka you have to help me blah..blah..blah.. Or Ted did you forget about the call to me this past month about trying to help you get Dan McKee back on your good side. Or perhaps you forgot about the whole one hour phone call to me where you threw Jeremy & Jim R under the bus in an elaborate conspiracy against you. My god your ego is immense Ted J. Trump! Nobody has filled me with a vendetta or placed a hit on you oh my lord don’t flatter yourself. Ted also be careful up there on the cross it can be really high hate to see you fall. I also don’t need anyone to email personally so I can spin an offline political agenda to keep people liking me vs. you etc. At the end of the day I come here to talk cards and post pics or share from my collection with others. I even enjoy the good card debate once in awhile. If folks like me on here great if they don’t I can live with that rain or shine I can live without the support or constant reassurances of fellow Net54 members telling me how great I am…can you Ted? Ted I’m also done with this conversation not because I deem it so like you have. But I’m going to get back to cards I’d say we would take this offline but I’ll pass. Everything is a conspiracy with you..and you have lost respect for me yawn etc. whatever Ted I never was looking for your respect or admiration to begin with. The only conspiracy here Ted I see is your obvious one against courtesy.What was such a simple thing to do you couldn’t manage or have yet to manage. Which was to simply say "I disagree with you John and I’ll stick to my 95%number but I see your POV in that unless I’ve seen them all perhaps my sampling of a single card is not a collective for the entire population of said card and 95% is at best a guess." No Ted you went right to lets prove me right by posting a sampling of a handful of Green Cobb’s from eBay and folks here. :) Just like you saying get yourself a Green Cobb Hindu backed card if you want a centered Cobb was testing us not a mistake or typo on your behalf. :rolleyes: I guess it only makes since as a god you incapable of mistakes. John |
Wow.
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Nice borders on that Cobb :D
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Japan ain't the only place having a meltdown. I enjoy reading John and Ted's contributions on this board. But this trainwreck should be taken out behind the school.
Incidentally, Our only greenie is an off-center Pied/350 beater. |
Tsaiko
Thanks for your input.
Can you please identify the back of your green Cobb ? Thanks again, TED Z |
Sorry, I assumed this was for P150.
I've got three more (all P150), but the two that are graded are in the safety box and for some reason I can't find front scans of them:( Next time I visit the box, I'll scan them and if they are centered better, I'll post. Man, Joe, your "big bordered Cobb" is not only amazing, but I can't recall any T206, that I have at least, having that much border on the top and the bottom. |
Tsaiko
Thank you very much.
TED Z |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY
Green Cobb survey....updated
14 = PIEDMONT 150 (off-center) 1 == PIEDMONT 150 (somewhat centered) 3 == PIEDMONT 150 (centered) 0 == PIEDMONT 350 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (centered) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (off-center) 6 == SWEET CAPORAL 150 (centered) 3 == SWEET CAPORAL 350 (centered) 1 == SWEET CAPORAL ? (off-center) Thanks .... Brian, Erick, Dean, Cat, Drew, Chuck, Joe, Scott, Tsaiko, and the Net54 readers (who emailed) for all your inputs. TED Z |
Hi Ted,
My Green Cobb is an SC150/25 and is well-centered. Scot |
My green P150 is oc.
JimB |
I recently upgraded (very slightly :) ) my P150 Green Cobb with another P150 Green Cobb.
Both are off center with more bottom border. Rob |
greenie
Ted,my cobb is a P150 and off-center.
all the best, ole friend barry |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY
Green Cobb survey ...... updated 3/16
22 = PIEDMONT 150 (off-center) ................ 22/25 = 88 % 3 == PIEDMONT 150 (centered) 1 == PIEDMONT 150 (somewhat centered) 2 == PIEDMONT 350 (centered) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (centered) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (off-center) 7 == SWEET CAPORAL 150 (centered) 3 == SWEET CAPORAL 350 (centered) 1 == SWEET CAPORAL ? (off-center) Thanks .... Steve, Scot, Jim, Rob, Barry and the Net54 readers (who emailed) for all your inputs. TED Z |
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Actually Ted - right now you're at 22/26 = 85%
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Mine a Piedmont 150 and centered, just ignore the rounding ;)
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p.../cobbgreen.jpg |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY
Thanks David W and Dave H for your inputs. They will be tallied into the survey on the next update later today.
TED Z |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY
<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ap150greencobb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
Green Cobb survey ................... updated 3/17 24 = PIEDMONT 150 (off-center) ..................... 24/28 = 86 % 4 == PIEDMONT 150 (centered) 2 == PIEDMONT 350 (centered) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (centered) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (off-center) 7 == SWEET CAPORAL 150 (centered) 3 == SWEET CAPORAL 350 (centered) 2 == SWEET CAPORAL ? (off-center) Thanks .... David, Dave and two Net54 readers (who emailed) for all your inputs. TED Z |
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I'd call mine (Piedmont 150) at least somewhat centered. Back is clean and centered perfectly. Buy the card, not the holder...by the way. Certainly one of the nicer looking 1's I've seen. Story for a different thread I suppose :)
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I am looking for green cobbs that are graded and off centered. Will offer top price. Thanks-kevin
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Green Cobb
Hi Ted,
I have a PSA 5 Green Cobb Piedmont 150. It is off-center, like most of the others. Good survey. |
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1.../T206cobbs.jpg
Sweet Cap 150 Looks like this is a tough one to find off centered. Sucks I got stuck with the off centered . JK cool thread! |
T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY....updated
Several of us T206 "dinosaurs" got together for an old-fashioned swap meet here in Pennsylvania this past weekend. I got six new inputs
to this survey from this group. Furthermore, I obtained 15 inputs from calls to fellow T206 collectors (who are mostly not Net54 members, but are known of by some Net54er's). I'll name eight of them .... John Dorsey, Tom Faith, Don Flewelling, Dave Hayward, Bob Krause, Greg Lacivta, Mark Macrae, Ralph Triplette, etc. Lest, a certain party here (with an agenda) chimes in and accuses me of...."ARBITRARILY PUL- LING OUT NAMES FROM NOWHERE". Here's how I acquired my first Cobb. In 1982, at a small BB card auction in Toms River (NJ) I won a green Cobb for an unbelievably low bid. Most at this auction were interested in the Pete Rose rookie and the 1982 Topps black ink variations. This Cobb was a PIEDMONT 150, it was off-center, and in VG condition. I sold this Cobb at the Willow Grove show, and bought an Excellent Cobb from Wayne Miller. The Cobb I got from Wayne was a PIEDMONT 150, and it too was off-center (to its top border). My curiosity was aroused, so I have been tracking green Cobb's since the early 1980's. I have seen several 100's of the green Cobb cards. The PIEDMONT 350, SOVEREIGN, and SWEET CAPORAL green Cobb's are usually centered. I cannot vouch for the OLD MILL version, as I've seen very few of them. Look, we can continue to run this survey to "infinity"....or, when we run out of green Cobb's....whichever occurs first :) The result will still be the same..approximately 9 out of every 10 green Cobb's (with PIEDMONT 150 backs) will be off-center to its top border. <img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/xt206greencobbp150.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/xgreencobbp150bk.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Green Cobb survey .................... updated 3/22 39 = PIEDMONT 150 (off-center) ...................... 39/45 = 87 % 6 == PIEDMONT 150 (centered) 4 == PIEDMONT 350 (centered) 1 == PIEDMONT 350 (off-center) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (centered) 1 == SOVEREIGN 150 (off-center) 9 == SWEET CAPORAL 150 (centered) 1 == SWEET CAPORAL 150 (off-center) 5 == SWEET CAPORAL 350 (centered) 2 == SWEET CAPORAL ? (off-center) 1 == OLD MILL (centered) TED Z |
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I used the confidence interval calculator and assumed a population of 10K P150 Green Cobbs (note that the value doesn't change even if I go up to 100K). |
Ted, thanks for this information. I also have an off centered green cobb piedmont 150 card. I think your sampling proves that the majority are off centered.
Question I have is why? Did they run a few sheets of just Cobb cards as he was a well known player then? Or did the position of Cobb on the sheet was on the top row? If so, then everyone on the top row should also be not centered. Curious as to the why. |
Ted, I count 12 P150's in this thread centered now 13 with Peter's FWIW you only count six....I guess that's ok though..no need to get bogged down with math.
"Lest, a certain party here (with an agenda)" Ted you can say my name it's ok. As stated before no agenda just calling it as I see it. You continue to miss the point I have pointed out this entire time I think you only want to hear what you want to hear. But there is no need to see my views afterall I'm just some rookie and your the expert. John |
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There's only one post here authored by Peter and he has clearly stated that his PIEDMONT 150 green Cobb is...." OFF-CENTER ". Watch it....your "agenda" is blinding you to the facts. T |
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