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Archive 04-02-2005 04:29 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>There was talk on the "1949 Leaf" thread about several cards from the 1947 Bond Bread set that might be considered "rookie cards" by some collectors.<br /><br />Can some of you gurus please answer these questions for a guy who knows nothing much about the set:<br /><br />1) Where was "Bond Bread" sold? Was this a "local" issue only sold in a tiny market...or was Bond Bread sold all across the country??<br /><br />2) Are the backs of these cards blank...or more specifically, do they have anything at all that definitively dates them to 1947 (such as the stats from 1946, etc.)??<br /><br />3) Assuming the backs cannot date the cards, what is it about the cards that allows ANYONE to date them back to 1947? Are their players on teams for whom they no longer played in 1948??<br /><br />4) Jackie Robinson debuted on opening day of 1947 (April 15)... so the cards must have been printed some time later than this in 1947 since the set includes Robinson in his Dodger blues. IN FACT, there is an entire SUBSET in the Bond Bread set that features SEVERAL pictures of Jackie Robinson doing things that happened during the 1947 season. Again, WHY is this set dated to 1947 (presumably late-1947) instead of 1948 or 1949??<br /><br />5) How long did Bond Bread exist? There is only ONE set of these cards... and surely they sold bread for more than one year...so hopefully someone can give us some FACTS to help date this set for certain.<br /><br />**Hopefully this set isn't dated 1947 just because Mr. Lemke once thought he heard someone opine that it was out of his distant childhood memory. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

Archive 04-02-2005 04:40 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>The second card below talks about Jackie's baseball statistics only up to 1946. <br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1112488624.JPG"> <br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1112488680.JPG">

Archive 04-02-2005 04:44 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>(Seller changed link I was "hot-linked" to)<br /><br />DavidVargha@hotmail.com

Archive 04-02-2005 04:58 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>OK, so we know that the cards had to have been issued after Opening Day 1947 in order to have the photographs of Robinson with the Dodgers...<br /><br />but the back that one card DOES seem to indicate that they were printed before the 1947 season ended (or they would have included his 1947 stats as well).<br /><br />Please keep the info coming!

Archive 04-02-2005 05:13 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>could any of those pics have been taken during a spring training game rather than after the start of the season?

Archive 04-02-2005 05:14 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>They were available in Brooklyn only and I believe the African American community was their target audience. As such, its limited distribution accounts for its scarcity.

Archive 04-02-2005 05:18 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>Dodgers' stuff added later--if Mayo could do it in 1895, I'm sure Bond Bread could so it in '46 ('47?)

Archive 04-02-2005 05:30 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I don't think so Julie, because the one Robinson card that is shown in the 2005 "big book" shows him trotting home inside a VERY BIG stadium with an upper deck and bunting in the background. Montreal couldn't even get that big of a baseball following in the 21st century!! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Based on what BARRY provided about this being a very regional issue (Brooklyn) perhaps targeted at African-Americans, I think they probably got a few shots of Jackie in April or May and ran as quick as possible to get something out there to sell their bread while the iron was hot.<br /><br />Also, now that I know this about the small area of distribution... I see why there are a lot of people who do not consider these to be Robinson's real rookie cards, since they could NOT have been bought and collected by kids in 99.99% of the Country.<br /><br />I think I will still have to go with the 1948 Bowmans and the 1949 Leafs as the first "real" sets issued after WWII, since they were both distributed NATIONALLY (like their 1933-1934 Goudey and 1939-1941 Play Ball predecessors).

Archive 04-02-2005 05:40 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Barry: <br /><br />Did you mean that only the "Jackie Robinson subset" was distributed solely in the Brooklyn market...or are you speaking about the ENTIRE 1947 Bond Bread set of 48 cards (with Robinson being card #37)??<br /><br />I guess it would make sense that they printed the entire set for ALL of Brooklyn... and then printed the "subset" for the African-American Brooklynites?<br /><br />If the ENTIRE set of 48 cards was distributed Nationally... then card #37 would indeed be Jackie Robinson's rookie card.<br /><br />However, since there would NEVER have been any debate about this issue if THAT was the case... I assume the entire 48 card set was only distributed in Brooklyn?

Archive 04-02-2005 05:41 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>Jackie Robinson<br />1946 Parade Sportive <br />1946 Parade Sportive 1946 Team Poto <br />1947 Bond Bread Set (13) <br />1947 Dodgers Team Issue <br />1947 Fleetwood Slacks <br />1947 Homogenized Bond <br />1947 R346 Blue Tint 36 <br />1948 Dodgers Team Issue <br />1948 Swell Sports Thrills 3<br />1948-49 Leaf 79 <br />1949 Bowman 50 <br />1949 Eureka Sportstamps 49 <br /><br /><br /><br />But everyone should collect whatever cards they feel most comfortable with.<br />

Archive 04-02-2005 05:43 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Excellent point Hal. It's quite possible that virtually no one in the country even knew they existed during their short run. Here's a good story for you: In the mid 1980's, I got a call from someone in Brooklyn who said his parents had died and when he went through their belongings he found a small stack of them in a box, about ten or so as I recall. I bought them all, but nearly every one of them was the same pose. I forget which but I know that a single card is much more common than all the others, so anyone who is familiar with the set could tell me which one it was. The only find of those I ever had but of course they came from Brooklyn (the seller happened to be white, but I really do think they were found mostly in the black neighborhoods). That gives you an idea of just how regionally they were distributed.

Archive 04-02-2005 05:45 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hal,<br /> You may be confusing it with the Homogenized bread, the one that David Festberg had about a million of. The Jackie Robinson set pictured only him. The examples scanned in this thread are from that set.

Archive 04-02-2005 06:02 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Barry - you are correct. My bad.<br /><br />The 2005 "big book" calls them "1947 Bond Bread" in the big bold title...<br /><br />but the fine print clarifies that this set was issued by HOMOGENIZED BOND Bread.<br /><br />I didn't know there was a difference... until you just pointed it out.<br /><br />Apparently Festberg had 100,000 of these because there were 100,000 of these REPRINTED in the 1990's, huh? That's what the "big book" says.<br /><br />---------------------------<br /><br />OK, so then I must ask the follow-up question:<br /><br />Assuming there are some GENUINE Jackie Robinson cards from this "Homogenized Bond Bread" set (in which he is card #37) out there...<br /><br />how nationally was IT distributed and how do we know IT is from 1947? <br /><br />Do those backs have any dating information?

Archive 04-02-2005 06:06 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>OK, I am confused.<br /><br />The cards all pictured above show a loaf of bread that says "HOMOGENIZED BOND" on it!!<br /><br />So isn't the "Bond Bread" company that issued the "Jackie Robinson Set" the SAME company that issued the 48 card set???<br /><br />------------------------<br /><br />Can someone please post the front and back of a 1947 Bond Bread card that does NOT feature Jackie Robinson on the FRONT???<br /><br />THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Archive 04-02-2005 06:11 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>It is a bit confusing. The ones pictured are relatively rare. The 48 card set is common and an enormous hoard of them was bought by Festberg- he was selling singles and complete sets for years. I don't know the distribution of that set, but would guess it was national. Jackie was a god in black neighborhoods, especially in Brooklyn, so I think the subset of Jackie Robonson cards was printed in relatively small numbers for a specific target audience.

Archive 04-02-2005 06:13 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Well, if the "Homogenized" Bond Bread 48-card set was indeed distributed nationally...<br /><br />then card #37 has to be Robinson's rookie.<br /><br />------------------------<br /><br />Does anyone have scans of the FRONT and BACK of Card #37 from the 48-card set???<br /><br />PLEASE?

Archive 04-02-2005 06:18 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Another Talmudic inquiry it seems. Barry and I were joking about OCD before, but we may have a legitimate sufferer in our friend Hal, as exhibited by his perhaps quixotic quest for the "truth" about what is and what is not a "real" rookie card. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Hal, I hope you figure all this out to your satisfaction, but I have the sense that in the end it may all be somewhat subjective and even arbitrary.

Archive 04-02-2005 06:31 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Here is what the Talmud has revealed thus far:<br /><br />The ORIGINAL set of 48 cards were distributed by "Homogenized Bond Bread" with ROUNDED CORNERS and blank backs.<br /><br />In the 1980's, a VERY LARGE quanity of REPRINTS appeared on the market... but these all had SQUARE CORNERS and blank backs.<br /><br />SO... there is nothing on the back of these card to specifically date them to 1947... and since the set includes Jackie Robinson it must have been printed sometime later than Opening Day 1947.<br /><br />To date, PSA has only graded ONE CARD from the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread set... a Ted Williams card with rounded corners.<br /><br />

Archive 04-02-2005 06:31 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Here is one of the REPRINT cards that came with SQUARE corners, but you can see that someone has TRIED unsuccessfully to cut the corners to make them APPEAR rounded:<br /><br /><img src="http://www.csauctions.com/images/march2005auctio/47bondrobinson278016.JPG"><br /><br />

Archive 04-02-2005 06:33 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p><a href="http://www.geocities.com/chrisstufflestreet/1947hb.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.geocities.com/chrisstufflestreet/1947hb.html</a>

Archive 04-02-2005 06:40 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Some of the text is printed for ease of reading. Many Hall of Famers in the set predating their "rookie" cards, apparently, not just Jackie.<br /><br />"They are found with either square or rounded corners (hobby publications do not speculate about why), and backs are blank. It has been suggested that these cards were distributed separately from the company's loves of bread, since the cards are rarely found with tell-tale signs of damage caused by the odd shape of bread.<br /><br />Some collectors refer to the set as "Homogenized Bond Bread," and that designation gets this set confused with the 1947 Bond Bread set. Both sets feature a smilar design and are the same size. Bond Bread cards also have rounded corners. Both sets feature Jackie Robinson cards, however, there is advertising on the back of Bond Bread cards. The biggest difference is that while all 13 of the cards in the Bond Bread set feature Robinson, he is only one of 48 subjects in the Homogenized set. The set features 44 baseball players and four boxers.<br /><br />Twelve of the 44 baseball players in the set are Hall of Famers, and the cards of Yogi Berra, Ralph Kiner, Stan Musial, Phil Rizzuto, Jackie Robinson and Enos Slughter predate the Bowman and Leaf cards called "rookie cards" by some collectors. Despite the historical significance of the set and the attractive cards, they haven't really caught on with collectors. There are some known reprints floating around the hobby -- some "graded" by unscrupulous and little-known companies -- while a large cache of twenty-four of the set's cards discoverd in the 1980s keeps these cards easily found in hobby circles."<br /><br />

Archive 04-02-2005 06:51 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Peter:<br /><br />I saw that, and while most hobby publications may not "speculate" as to why there are some out there with square corners...<br /><br />Bob Lemke doesn't pull any punches in his 2005 version of the big book. He makes it very clear that the cards originally came with ONLY the rounded corners.<br /><br />BUT...<br /><br />if someone can produce a 1947 Bond Bread card #37 (like the one shown above) with GENUINE rounded corners...<br /><br />then it would certainly be Jackie's rookie card.<br /><br />-------------------------<br /><br />HOWEVER....<br /><br />Mr. Lemke shows in his book the 24 cards in the set that have NEVER shown up with the counterfeit SQUARE corners...<br /><br />and Jackie is NOT one of them.<br /><br />Accordingly... it is entirely possible that ALL of the Jackie Robinson cards from this set were REPRINTS made in the early 1980's.<br /><br />What we need is a checklist for this set from some hobby magazine from 1975 to see which cards were listed for the set back then.<br /><br />It may be that only 24 cards existed... and then 24 more were ADDED to the checklist when they were thought to have been "discovered" in the 1980's... but in fact they were NOT REAL.<br /><br />We do know that only 24 cards showed up with SQUARE corners in the 1980's. What we do NOT know is if ANY of those 24 cards EXISTED with round corners prior to that date. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />------------------------<br /><br />Just seems very strange that NOBODY has had a GENUINE Jackie Robinson card #37 from this set slabbed by PSA if it is such a valuable and historical card.<br /><br />Makes it seem like NONE of his cards from this set pass the PSA test. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Archive 04-02-2005 07:08 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Kit Young has a Musial on his website with square corners. He has been around a long time, maybe you should ask him. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.kityoung.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=66469&Catego ry_Code=BROIALL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.kityoung.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=66469&Catego ry_Code=BROIALL</a>

Archive 04-02-2005 07:09 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Andy Baran</b><p>Hal,<br /><br />I have a 1947 Bond Bread card of Sid Gordon (spelled Cid) on the card. It is one of the cards that was not reprinted, and can not be found with square corners. It also has period scrapbook removal on the back, so I know it is legitimate. The reason that I am writing this is that the rounded corners are hand cut. It is not a clean factory rounded corner like you can find on other sets. I would bet this would be the same for all of the authentic bond cards, which unfortunately would make it easy to take a reprint and make it look authentic.

Archive 04-02-2005 07:12 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>What's he going to do, Peter -- admit that he is trying to sell a reprint?<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I need to hear something from the guys who were collecting these cards BEFORE the 1980's... like Lipsett and others.<br /><br />Surely they would know if a Jackie Robinson card like this with rounded corners had EVER been seen from 1947 to 1980.<br /><br />Barry: Got anyone you can turn to for these answers?

Archive 04-02-2005 07:16 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Thanks Andy!<br /><br />No wonder PSA won't grade them ... they probably ALL look "hand-cut" and they shy away from that stuff.<br /><br />You and I know this from our E107 Lajoie Type II experience. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />SO... I guess the Robinson is his rookie... but there is a BIG RISK in buying one that you are buying a REPRINT.<br /><br />SCARY.<br /><br />No wonder most people gravitate towards the safer Leaf and Bowman cards.

Archive 04-02-2005 07:21 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Has anyone checked the SGC population report?

Archive 04-02-2005 07:24 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I can't get it to open. Haven't been able to for days.<br /><br />Can anyone else?

Archive 04-02-2005 07:26 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Has it been definitively proven that the homogenized bond bread cards found in the 1980's were reprints? I didn't think it had been and thought someone from this board was going to try to compare the square edge cards to the "originals" to see if they help see printing differences. <br /><br />Adam

Archive 04-02-2005 07:46 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I would do it Adam... but I don't have a square OR a round version. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />CAN SOMEONE VOLUNTEER???<br /><br />We need to have one of the GENUINE round corner cards for comparison... so it has to be one of the 24 cards that did NOT show up in the 1980's. Lemke indicates these original cards with the (SP) designation in his book.<br /><br />If anyone has one of these.... maybe we can find someone with a SQUARE corner card and get them together for some serious examination by an expert??<br /><br />Please?

Archive 04-02-2005 07:50 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>I bet Dave Bushing would volunteer his expertise. EDITED TO ADD On a serious note, Hal, are any of the ones on Kit Young's website ones that did not "show up" in the 1980's?

Archive 04-02-2005 08:13 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Hmmmm.........<br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86854&item=5174755 831&rd=1" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86854&item=5174755 831&rd=1</a>

Archive 04-02-2005 08:25 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Peter:<br /><br />Musial definitely showed up in the 1980's... which is obvious from the square corners on the one Kit Young has for sale.<br /><br />His Bob Feller also showed up in the 1980's... and it has square corners.<br /><br />His Ted Williams also showed up in the 1980's... and it has square corners.<br /><br />SO.....<br /><br />in a nutshell, Kit Young doesn't have ANY of the "Original 24" cards for sale.

Archive 04-02-2005 08:34 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Here is more proof that these REPRINTS cannot get graded by REPUTABLE grading companies. This one is on EBAY now:<br /><br /><img src="http://i20.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/c1/8f/e4_1_b.JPG">

Archive 04-02-2005 08:37 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Here is another SQUARE Robinson that sold recently:<br /><br /><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86854&item=5170397 283&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86854&item=5170397 283&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW</a>

Archive 04-02-2005 10:02 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>.

Archive 04-03-2005 07:29 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Does ANYONE have a 1947 Homogenized Bread card that was graded by SGC?<br /><br />Not one of the Robinson subset, but one from the 24 (or 48) player set?<br /><br />SGC's pop report is not working.

Archive 04-03-2005 07:31 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>I do not think the square cornered cards are reprints. First, the selection of players is bizarre if they are reprints. Many of them are common duds. Second, looking at the cards under a magnifier, they show none of the signs of being second generation screens or prints from the originals, so if they are reprints, they are made with the original plates. Third, they feature the same stock as the originals. Fourth, they surfaced before reprinting was a problem and sold for relatively little, so where is the profit? <br /><br />My suspicion is that the original issue went through a cutting process that gave them rounded corners, but the square cornered versions were cut down from discovered sheets. <br /><br />Finally, and it is truly a nitpick, there are only three boxers in the set, technically. Primo Carnera, the former heavyweight champ, is shown in wrestling togs. By the time of issue he was long retired from the ring but was making money as a pro wrestler. So, there are really three boxers (louis, lamotta, cerdan) and one wrestler. <br /><br />PSA: by way of disclosure, I don't own any of the cards so I don't really have a stake in the authenticity debate.

Archive 04-03-2005 08:01 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Thanks Adam!!<br /><br />You are our exhibit guru... so your opinion after viewing BOTH the round and the square versions is very important!!<br /><br />So do you think someone in the 1980's discovered the uncut sheets and then cut them THEN??<br /><br />That would explain perfectly why there were 24 cards that surfaced and 24 that didn't --- two separate sheets of cards and only ONE such sheet was found in mass quanities in the 1980's.<br /><br />SO... I guess a card is "real" if it was printed in 1947 and the cut free and distributed in 1984, right?<br /><br />I guess we should ask Gretzky & McNall, huh?<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Adam: What do you know about the original DISTRIBUTION of this set??? Was it nationwide, or only in one area??<br /><br /><br />

Archive 04-03-2005 08:04 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Adam's post is consistent with this "information" from the link I previously posted:<br /><br />"There are some known reprints floating around the hobby -- some "graded" by unscrupulous and little-known companies -- while a large cache of twenty-four of the set's cards discoverd in the 1980s keeps these cards easily found in hobby circles."

Archive 04-03-2005 08:08 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Once again the Talmud will have to be consulted about the question of whether a card subsequently cut from an original sheet is the real McCoy. I seem to recall this issue arose in the context, sorry for the modern reference, of Tiger Woods rookie cards being cut from sheets a few years after they were printed. I don't remember the position of the grading companies exactly, but I think SGC graded them and PSA didn't.

Archive 04-03-2005 08:09 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>warshawlaw,<br />I tend to agree with your assessment. <br /><br />Round corners should not be the sole discriminator to use to label an entire group of cards as reprints - it is not hard for me to envision a large batch of these surviving in storage and surfacing in the 1980's. <br /><br />I don't think using PSA criteria as to whether or not they will grade these cards shows whether they are authentic or not. PSA chooses not to grade several issues, but that doesn't make them less original. Star Basketball is a good example of cards PSA will not grade - these sets include many completely original examples and from what I understand relatively limited reprinting. Generally speaking, I do not think PSA is going to go out on a limb to authenticate any group of cards that may have some controversery surrounding them or that might take too much additional effort to grade. Additionally, the way the bread cards are cut probably presents some problems. I like PSA fine and this is their business decision to make.<br /><br />Incidentally, GAI has graded bond bread cards with square corners although I do not know if they still do and I couldn't find any on ebay at the moment. They also grade Star Basketball cards. From a business standpoint this seems like a good way for GAI to pick up market share that is currently not being tapped.<br /><br />In the interest of full disclosure I do own some of the square corner bread cards. However, it is a pretty small collection and definitely not enough to keep me up nights worrying about authenticity.<br /><br />Adam

Archive 04-03-2005 08:17 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I think we have a simple solution.<br /><br />Anyone who wants to buy a 1947 Homogenized Bond bread card must first submit the card to ADAM (warshawlaw), along with a $1 non-refundable retainer, for him to authenticate it.<br /><br />ADAM will authenticate your card for $1... but will of course have to charge you TWICE his normal hourly rate for all of the time it takes him to everything.<br /><br />In the end... you end up paying ADAM $750 to authenticate your $7.50 card...<br /><br />but at least you can sleep at night.<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />

Archive 04-03-2005 11:09 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>scott</b><p>Hi,<br /><br />I am normally just a reader as i am just getting more interested in pre war. But thought i'd chime in on this. GAI recieved my cards about a month ago and there was some ? about there authenticity. What happened was one grader thought good and another did not. At that point Mike called to let me know what was going on and that they were bringing in someone else to look at the print pattern and stock. I got my results via a phone call friday that they were legit and were being slabbed.<br /><br />By the way all were square corners and that is what led me to submit them in the first place, plus that the condition was so good. When i get them next week i will post scans for all to see if you like.<br /><br />scott

Archive 04-03-2005 11:34 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Thanks!!<br /><br />Glad to hear that GAI is questioning these and examining them closely!!!<br /><br />It sure sounds like there are authentic cards out there in this set with square corners. <br /><br />I guess whoever cut them from the authentic sheets in the 1980's didn't want to spend countless hours cutting all of the round corners by hand!! Can't blame them!

Archive 04-03-2005 11:55 AM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Would GAI slab a card it believed to be cut from a sheet? Or is it still possible the cards were from a find of already cut cards?

Archive 04-03-2005 12:02 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>OK ... back to my ORIGINAL question:<br /><br />Since this 48-card set is BLANK-backed...<br /><br />and since Jackie Robinson is included in the set...<br /><br />WHAT DATES THIS SET SPECIFICALLY TO 1947???<br /><br />--------------<br /><br />Jackie debuted on April 15, 1947... so wouldn't they have waited a bit to see if he did well and stayed in the league before including him in a small set of star players?<br /><br />Isn't it more likely that Homogenized Bond Bread started out SMALL with the "Jackie Robinson SUBSET" in Brooklyn only...<br /><br />and LATER decided that the cards were a success and EXPANDED to the larger set with more players and to a wider market??<br /><br />---------------<br /><br />I believe that the Jackie Robinson subset was made in 1947 for Brooklyn area customers... but I can't count those cards as his "rookie cards" because of the small distribution area and onl one player in the set. (Just my personal feelings)<br /><br />BUT... I could consider the 1947 Robinson card from the 48-player set as his rookie... if I had some PROOF that the cards were made in 1947 (or technically even 1948, since his Leaf and Bowman cards came out in 1949).

Archive 04-03-2005 12:06 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>Hal I dunno what dates them to 47 but it hardly seems surprising given the publicity and notoriety surrounding Robinson, and I believe it was known well in advance of the season that he would be playing for Brooklyn, that a manufacturer would have included him in a set even if he hadn't established himself. EDITED TO ADD: As for dating them, is there anyone in the set who retired after the 47 season so it is unlikely they would have been included if the set was really 48?

Archive 04-03-2005 12:16 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Not that I can find.<br /><br />If I had photos of the 44 baseball players, then I could cross-check their teams and see if any of them switched teams in 1947 or 1948... but I don't have any way of seeing all the cards to see which team the players are pictured with.

Archive 04-03-2005 12:40 PM

1947 Bond Bread questions
 
Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>what about the 1947 blue tint set as rookie cards of spahn,kiner,robinson?


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