A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>This card is currently listed for sale on ebay. How does this get a 6? Is this a screw up or a switched card?<br /><br /><img src="http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/jkrasner2/111ss0004.jpg">

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>That has to be a switched card. PSA should be notified.<br />JimB

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Looks like an 8 compared to this one:<br /><br /><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/leebehrens/T202MattyPSA6BADGRADE.JPG"><br /><br />There's more where those came from.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>The sad part about this is that the card was probably graded a "6". <br /><br />If PSA reviews the scan they will (hopefully) surely realize an error was made and promptly "de-cert" the card by removing the cert number from their computers - issue closed, it never existed.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Big Six looks alot more like a little three.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Just wanted to add the T202 sold for $10,000 last I saw it sold. Expensive holder.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>You said it Lee... expensive holder... isn't that what a lot of this amounts to these days? Oh let me virtually shut up (stop typing) before I start a rant about grading, card prices and the subjectiveness of trained monkeys...

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>quan</b><p>looks like a 4...a psa5 white cap is around 1.1k. i will take the over on this one? <br /><br />someone less lazy and have more pull than me should contact psa to take it down...

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Quan,<br /><br />I agree - a 4 at best. I am also going with the over - and betting someone will buy the slab rather than the card.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>Do you have a copy of the "top 200" book?<br />if you look through it this card in holder won't bother you so much!<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Levy</b><p>Nice to see you back Lee B.<br /><br />Regards,<br />SGL

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>matt</b><p>It was probably a 6 when it first came out of the pack. Then, well....<br />Somebody should notify PSA.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Probably graded by one of the 19 year-old girls that works there.<br /><br />James

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>If this was not a crack and replace job and this was actually sealed as such by PSA I would think there is quite a bit of money to be made by cracking and resubmitting vintage cards multiples of times until you get lucky - the cost of submitting is ~$15 and a grade jump is worth many times that.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>I wish whoever graded that would grade my submissions!

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Joe Jones</b><p>This card may have a 6 on the holder, but would it actually sell for 6 pricing? Who would pay more than vg or vgex for that card?

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>That's some crappy looking 4.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>What good will it do to notify PSA? 90% of the cards I've noticed problems with that I've sent to JO comes back "correctly graded, no problems" even when its obvious to any collector there is something wrong.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>Ok this is probably that other 10% and if I read their terms right they might have to pay up.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>Might be an SGC 40?

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>The card does have decent centering and has some honest looking wear. With that said I think it is a hi end 3, or, on a good day a 4. <br /><br /><br />Steve

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Paul Grubor</b><p>Someone should contact Joe Orlando and complain! This card is a 3 at best. Is that a hint of paper loss on the bottom left? Its kind of like that Aaron Rookie that was an 8 with a print flaw and 2 dinged corners. Geez, If thats a 6 I need that grader to be my best friend. I'd be retired and set for life!

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>My experience has been that the 90%/10% is completely random. In other words, there's a very high chance they'll say "good card, correctly graded". Go ahead, someone buy it and send it to them and try it. I dare you.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>This is right off the PSA website:<br /><br />"Each grader receives the order and they will enter the order number into the computer. Once that is done, the contents of that order will appear on the PSA grading screen. Grader #1 will then enter his grade for the card in question (and for each card within the order until the order is completed if there is more than one card) and close the order on his screen. Once that is done and after redistribution of the order, Grader #2 will do the same - not knowing the opinion of the first grader on any of the cards within that order.<br /><br />If their grades match in the computer, the card would then eventually reach a 3rd grader for verification of the grade. If the opinion of the first two graders does not match, that card will be assigned to a 3rd grader whose opinion is required to break the tie so to speak. As with the first example, the card would still be assigned to another grader for verification (a 4th grader in the process) to make sure the grade is accurate and consistent with our standards."<br /><br />So based on that info, three (if not four) graders thought this was a 6?!<br /><br />

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Old news, but possibly relevant to discussion. <br /><br />Cracked 12 SGC "A" and submitted to PSA:<br /><br />PSA 2 (1)<br />PSA 4 (2)<br />PSA 5 (3)Including Speaker<br />PSA 6 (1)<br /><br />Trimmed (5)<br /><br /><br />4512821 1911 GERMANY SCHAEFER WASHINGTON 2 <br />4512822 1911 JOHN McGRAW FINGER IN AIR 4 <br />4512823 1911 MIKE POWERS N/A Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming <br />4512824 1911 BOSS SCHMIDT THROWING 6 <br />4512825 1911 JOHN HUMMEL N/A 4 <br />4512826 1911 BOB SPADE N/A 5 <br />4512827 1911 LARRY SCHLAFLY N/A 5 <br />4512828 1911 AL BURCH FIELDING Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming <br />4512829 1911 WALTER JOHNSON HANDS AT CHEST Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming <br />4512830 1911 PADDY LIVINGSTONE LIVINGSTON Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming <br />4512831 1911 TRIS SPEAKER N/A 5 <br />4512832 1911 CARL LUNDGREN CHICAGO Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming <br />

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Glen Turner</b><p>I would like to think that the grading companies do the best job they can grading a card, but like I have always said whether they grade your card 2 or 4 or 6 or whatever bottom line your money is in their pocket.<br />Those MAGIC graded holders can greatly enhance the price you get for your cards.<br />I hope Larry Fritsch is wrong when he said graded cards will kill the hobby.<br />I remember when SCD started grading cards and Fritsch advertised for them.<br />Does anyone know why SCD stopped grading cards?<br />Thanks.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jordan</b><p>First off, I would like to stand up for our company, for anyone that is accusing us of switching cards, altering holders etc, We are an honest company that submits cards, and receives them back, and lists them. We do not alter items, switch items, or do anything that is dishonest in this small industry that still exists today. <br /><br />As far as this card, it was obtained in a collection, sent off to PSA, they graded it, and sent it back. Pretty cut and dry. If they made a mistake, that would be PSA's Issue. We are simply listing the card, and selling it. On Monday, to show the type of reputation we stand for, I will contact Joe Orlando personally, show him a scan, and if he feels something needs to be done, we will contact our Ebay account Manager, have the card pulled, and it will go back to PSA for re-submission. <br /><br />We are not the graders, only the seller. If we were out to gouge people, I guarantee we would have pulled the 66 McCovey High Number in the 66 Set listed in our other auctions, and replaced it with a roach. The card clearly sticks out compared to the rest of the cards in the set.<br /><br />Fair Enough.<br /><br />Jordan Insley<br />Insley Sports<br />insleysports@aol.com

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Jordan fair enough, and yes, it is mostly all on PSA, however, when the card came back a 6 and you sent it in thinking it was a 3 (or a 4 at best) didn't you at that time scratch your forhead? And say to yourself "what is going on here'?<br /><br />You have been put in the middle of a issue in which like you have stated, you sent the card in it was graded and now you list it. Regardless of what the holder says people will bid accordingly to what the card looks like and not the cert. Or at least we hope.<br /><br /><br />As for SCD I think they were somehow involved with the grade and trade fiasco and WIWAG scandal and did not come through that very well. From what i understood at the time they were basically collateral damage.<br /><br /><br />Steve

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jordan</b><p>And that is the exact reason I put a LARGE Scan for people to see exactly what they are getting. <br /><br />If I was trying to be shady, I would have put the scan into Ebays little 3x4 size picture where you couldn't see what you were getting.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Jordan<br /><br />No one here has said that you or your company had done anything shady. IMO and since I can't speak for the OP I am of the opinion that the OP simply asked a question in his title, not as a statement of fact, nor as an opinion, but simply as a question. I would think because the card does not fit any criteria for being a 6. Shady? Nope, dishonest, no again. I took it as he was bewildered as to how that card could have gotten such a grade. <br /><br /><br />Yes, you put up a large scan.<br /><br />I do not see where you feel that people here think that you are shady. I must have missed it.<br /><br /><br />Steve

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Read what the title says. That is what this thread is about. It has nothing to do with the seller....who has graciously come onto the board and expressed himself rather well. <br /><br />Jordon- please don't think this is about you. It's about the grading company and how this card got a 6? Obviously, it's not a normal 6 or even a 5 (maybe a 4.5) If it were SGC or Beckett or GAI it would have been the same conversation....regards

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jordan</b><p>Thanks, <br /><br />for the record, I have sent an email off to Joe, <br /><br />Awaiting a response, <br /><br />If the card is pulled, it is for reason of being re-submitted. <br /><br />Jordan Insley<br />Insley Sports

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Rob Dewolf</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />With all due respect, the title might say one thing, the second post in the thread (below) says another. I can see why Jordan might have felt under attack.<br /><br /><i>That has to be a switched card. PSA should be notified.</i>

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>brian</b><p>Does anyone know why SCD stopped grading cards?<br /><br /><br />from what I gathered, they sold their card grading business to Sports Card Direct because submissions were too few. This was because they were grading cards too harshly.<br />

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Glen Turner</b><p>Brian:<br />Thanks.<br />I submitted cards to SCD (Sports Collectors Digest) for grading and I felt that they were too strict in their grading and never used them again.<br />In fact, when I see an original SCD card for sale on ebay I check it out because I know that It is the grade shown or even higher.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>You are right. I missed the implication of card switching....I didn't think that happened to that holder...but I understand the defensive response. I am sure it will be ok. I do think PSA owes Jordan an explanation...

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I did not mean to imply anything about the seller when I said that the card had to have been switched. I just seemed so off that I would not think PSA would have given that card a 6. I, personally, did NOT presume that the seller switched it. For all I know, he may have been duped or thought it was accurately graded (or close enough). Now he has been honest and up front about what happened. Apparently PSA did give it a 6. I was wrong about their grading. I never intended to accuse the seller of anything. He seems like a honest guy.<br />JimB<br /><br />Edited to add the "NOT" which was omitted by mistake. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Thanks Leon for reading my mind and catching my mistake.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>As far as I'm concerned, all the seller (or any seller) can do is present a card without hiding anything. The big scans in this auction is fine and presents the card as it truly is. For collectors that want to pay more, why stop them? <br /><br />IMO, the seller has done nothing wrong and is in no obligation to do any extra legwork than provide a nice scan which he has done.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The seller isn't really obligated to do anymore than show big front and back scans....If someone wants to buy the holder instead of the card it's certainly their right to do so. I have a few cards that way and don't feel bad about selling an overgraded, encapsulated card. I am not the one that put the grade on it....BIG SCANS are almost always good enough for me to make a buying decision......I would guess the card would sell for less than a real 6 though.....

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Doug</b><p>Yeah, you can't really fault the seller because the grading company overgraded his card. The scans speak for themselves unless someone really wants that PSA 6 holder at a discount for their registry set or something, but that's a whole other topic...

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>In this case I agree that the seller had made a large scan and that was all he needed to do, however that is not to say that any other seller can just scan an over graded card and be in the clear. If a problem exists he/she should also describe such problem that maybe a scan will not show. I am sitting on such a card right now a 55 Topps Koufax rookie graded PSA 8 that the seller did not fully describe and I now have the lemon. Instead of hyping the card (like mine did) he could have described the paper loss that sits right between Koufax's eyes. One day I'll send it to J.O and see what he does. If anyone wants to see it I have it on the registry. WINPITCHER 55 set. <br /><br />Not that I am losing sleep over it but feel that just because PSA grades it sellers are still liable for fully describing over graded cards.<br /><br /><br />Steve

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p><font size=+8, color = red>psa SUCKS!</font><br /><br />Ok, for you registry people that love psa, go ahead and tell me that I'm stupid, biased and that psa makes the occassional error. Go ahead and tell me that SGC makes errors and that psa isn't that bad. One more time.... <br /><br /><font size=+8, color = red>psa SUCKS!</font>

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>cmoking</b><p>With the problems that PSA has, I'd still MUCH rather buy a PSA graded card online (i.e, I can't see the card in person...and I'm buying from a total stranger), than a raw card. So while we (me included) complain about them, IMO, it is still much better they are around than not.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Steve, most of the auction houses don't specifically mention paper loss. They just show scans of the card in the slab. You believe that ebay sellers be held to a higher standard than auction houses?

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve D</b><p>Jeff I hear ya.<br /><br /><br />Have a happy and prosperous 08.<br /><br /><br />Steve D

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Despite the large scans, it wouldn't hurt if the seller also put in his text that the card is improperly graded. Then at that point I would say he has given full disclosure, and bidders can bid as they choose.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Jordan</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />We did, the card is disclosed as a GRADED PSA 6 Card. As stated previously, we are not graders, that is what we pay PSA the big bucks for.<br /><br />Unfortunately fake autographs, trimmed cards, and cards graded with different opinions still exist in the marketplace, and if they didn't PSA, SGC and the rest of the opinion providers would probably be out of business.<br /><br />We are still yet to hear back from Joe, assuming no response comes along the card will end for what it does. If someone wants it for the coveted registry or whatever they may choose that is for them to decide, and also for them to decide what they are willing to pay for it.<br /><br />Collectors can clearly see what they will receive. We aren't hiding anything. I don't think a T206 Mathewson is a card that a Non-Educated collector is going to be randomly searching for on eBay just to pick up with the spare change in the coin jar.<br /><br />Jordan

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Wasn't suggesting you were hiding anything. I think PSA just needs to correct an error.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"Despite the large scans, it wouldn't hurt if the seller also put in his text that the card is improperly graded. Then at that point I would say he has given full disclosure, and bidders can bid as they choose."<br /><br />I respectfully disagree. I agree with Jordan. We are not the graders. We pay them for a service. It is not up to us to second guess the "experts" as long as we display large clear front and back scans. Let the buyer decide.

A PSA 6 ?????
 

Posted By: <b>Alan Elefson</b><p>Hi-<br /> I rarely weigh in on these type of discussions but, while I do not fault the seller as I believe he is acting in the industry norm, it is my belief that all cards should be as accurately described as possible (particulary cards of this caliber) regardless if they are graded or not, scanned or not. I am sure I am in the minority here, but this is my opinion. Regardless, I hope the card sells for what it should based on its actual grade.<br />Alan Elefson<br />