Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   1858 Mass Association of Base Ball Players Ad (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=271814)

aelefson 07-29-2019 09:20 PM

1858 Mass Association of Base Ball Players Ad
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi-

I acquired the item scanned below a few months ago. It is blank backed and advertises the coming sale of rules that were adopted on May 13 1858. Interestingly, Base was spelled Bass which I assume was a misunderstanding on the printer's part (bass ball would be really difficult to play).

Does anyone have a scan of the 1858 rule booklet this ad references? Has anyone seen any other advertisements for this rule booklet? Please feel free to post anything related to the 1858 rules.

Alan

base_ball 07-29-2019 11:45 PM

Here ya go:

https://www.baseball-almanac.com/graves/townball.shtml

Somewhat unusual ad you have there, a sort of trade card advertising a micro publication. AND it’s an “error ad”. Nice.

bgar3 07-30-2019 06:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Alan, I love that piece. In addition to the above, these rules were used in the little booklet entitled A Ball Player’s Pocket Companion. This booklet contained rules and tips for both the New York Game and the Massachusetts Game.
It has been found in editions dated 1859,1860 and 1861.

Case12 07-30-2019 08:34 AM

Very cool!

GaryPassamonte 07-30-2019 12:02 PM

Great book, Bruce.

bgar3 07-30-2019 12:21 PM

Thanks Gary, I am having a hard time posting more photos since I just took the photos, but I will as soon they upload. By the way the book is actually George Wright’s copy, with a few notes.
Also “Bass” may not be a typo. There are examples of that spelling very early on, however that is not the spelling used in the book.
I will keep trying on the photos.

barrysloate 07-30-2019 12:51 PM

There's a decent 1860 Pocket Companion in REA, and I assume I will not be accused of outing an ungoing auction since REA is about as well known as any auction house around. I already have one, but hope one of the 19th century collectors here gives it a shot.

I have seen 1858 and 1859 Constitutions for the NAABP (National Association of Amateur Baseball Players), but I'm not familiar with the Mass. Association. This piece merits a little research. Nice find!

aelefson 07-30-2019 12:54 PM

Thank you everyone! Bruce, I will respond to your PM later on. I would definitely like to see more pictures of the inside of the book when you are able. Thank you Joe for the web link. I would like to see other spellings of base as bass if anyone has any examples. I love items that connect to the early history of the game like this.

Alan

bgar3 07-30-2019 01:00 PM

Alan, I remember seeing “bass” ball referenced in Block’s book, Baseball before we knew it, primarily from English books etc, but there may be others. If you don’t have the book I will try to find the references, but it is a good book to have.
Still trying on the photos. Not uploading right now.

bgar3 07-30-2019 01:32 PM

The Pocket Companion reprints the rules, but also notes the minutes from the adoption called for the publication. I will include a photo of that page also when I can.

bgar3 07-30-2019 03:49 PM

8 Attachment(s)
Photos of the section dealing with the Massachusetts Game Rules finally loaded.
Hopefully readable, let me know if any questions. My copy is the 1860 edition, note an amendment and new name.

bgar3 07-31-2019 08:06 AM

References to Bass ball in Block
 
Alan, I found 2 references to Bass ball in Block’s book, pages 161 and 213.
The first is from a New York newspaper in 1825, and the second is from a New York magazine, The Knickerbocker, January 1850, with Block calling it a “colloquial” spelling.

aelefson 07-31-2019 08:32 AM

Thank you Bruce! I will download the photos and review them soon. I really appreciate everyone's information and comments. It is also interesting to learn about using Bass instead of Base. I do not have that book but will look for it.

Alan

barrysloate 07-31-2019 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgar3 (Post 1904160)
Photos of the section dealing with the Massachusetts Game Rules finally loaded.
Hopefully readable, let me know if any questions. My copy is the 1860 edition, note an amendment and new name.

My 1860 copy, like all I believe, has a small strip of paper maybe half an inch tall that includes an amended rule sewn into the binding after publication. It's the only time I've seen a rule added that way.

bgar3 07-31-2019 02:57 PM

Barry, that is interesting. Mine does not have that errata slip and both sets of rules say they updated to all changes from the 1860 meetings.
My title page is dated 1860, but is described as the third revised edition. Perhaps there was an earlier 1860 edition with the slip? I know there are copies dated 1859 and 1861 also, but that doesn’t explain third revised edition.

barrysloate 07-31-2019 06:01 PM

Bruce, I just read the description of the 1860 book in REA and it states that the amended rule is missing, and there was a tiny residue left which identified it as excised. It's difficult to know whether there was a first printing in 1860 without the amendment, or due to its fragile nature if it's missing it has fallen out. I just don't know. How could we tell if all the printings were otherwise identical?

bgar3 07-31-2019 06:09 PM

Barry, not sure how to find out other than just compare pages. To add to the mystery, probably only of interest to a very few of us, is that there is a copy on ABE, with a New York, title page from 1860, mine is Boston. Interesting.

bgar3 07-31-2019 06:11 PM

Barry, I should have asked what the amended rule is. If it is in mine in print then mine is a little later.

barrysloate 08-01-2019 07:33 AM

You know Bruce, I just looked and it's not an amendment at all, it's a correction:

ERRATA
Page 13, Rule 17, for seventy tallies read seventy-five tallies.

And the title page reads "third revised edition", so if yours or anyone else's doesn't say that, we can confirm two 1860 printings. If 1859 was the first, and this was the third, two printings for 1860 is likely.

REA's reads "third revised edition."

bgar3 08-01-2019 09:06 AM

Mine says Third revised edition also, but it reads seventy in italics and there is no evidence that I can see if any slip. What do you make of the Boston and New York title pages. Not a major deal, but interesting. I wonder if the 1861 says fourth edition. REA also says the binding is leather, but it pretty clearly is not, just soft cloth.
All this time I thought 70 tallies were enough, now I have to root for my favorite teams to get 75, damn.

barrysloate 08-01-2019 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgar3 (Post 1904586)
Mine says Third revised edition also, but it reads seventy in italics and there is no evidence that I can see if any slip. What do you make of the Boston and New York title pages. Not a major deal, but interesting. I wonder if the 1861 says fourth edition. REA also says the binding is leather, but it pretty clearly is not, just soft cloth.
All this time I thought 70 tallies were enough, now I have to root for my favorite teams to get 75, damn.

I'm not sure what you mean by what do I think of the NY-Bost title page, other than it referring to the transition between the Mass and New York style of play. And all editions have cloth binding, so REA perhaps made a small error in the description.

bgar3 08-01-2019 11:15 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Barry, I was referring to a copy on the bookseller website ABE that has an 1860 date, is the third revised edition, but has New York on the title page rather than Boston as mine has. ( he wants 20000 for it).

barrysloate 08-01-2019 12:18 PM

Wow, never saw that or knew it existed. Were there regional editions printed? That is a first for me. And 20K for the book doesn't surprise me. That's the rare book business for you.

bgar3 08-01-2019 04:17 PM

Barry, a couple of things.
I can’t find any Mayhew or Baker books outside Boston.
I did find some pros fuses listed in the Library of Congress that suggest the books cost 25 cents, but it is not definitive
The New York public library has a Mayhew and Baker book catalogue from 1860 that may have info in it
I reread the bookseller ABE listing and he says the publisher is CFA Hinriches, which may explain the New York but might indicate it is pirated. The fact it still says third revised edition is suspect by a new publisher.
I suppose we could try to do a census, but my auction search only turned up the 1859, 1860 and 1861 Mayhew Boston versions.
Finally, while there are 34 numbered pages, mine also has 2 additional loaves of ads, including Harwood balls, and an additional blank leaf.

barrysloate 08-01-2019 04:25 PM

I also know of only 1859, 60, and 61 editions. I once owned an 1859 but sold it many years ago. I've only seen a single 1861- I believe it was less popular by that time- and it had a metallic blue paper cover, different than the brown cloth ones.

Leon 08-13-2019 07:23 PM

First time I saw this, today. Very cool.

Sorry, I couldn't have helped with the questions, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aelefson (Post 1904002)
Hi-

I acquired the item scanned below a few months ago. It is blank backed and advertises the coming sale of rules that were adopted on May 13 1858. Interestingly, Base was spelled Bass which I assume was a misunderstanding on the printer's part (bass ball would be really difficult to play).

Does anyone have a scan of the 1858 rule booklet this ad references? Has anyone seen any other advertisements for this rule booklet? Please feel free to post anything related to the 1858 rules.

Alan



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:28 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.