Possible Ebay Scammer? Or Am I at Fault?
 

I will begin by stating I'm quite new/potentially ignorant regarding Ebay selling and the nuances therein. I'm just a simple collector who recently got into buying baseball cards again and decided to sell some of my random buys from the past on Ebay. I first began selling cards around January 29th this year.

On February 12, 2019 I sold a 1952 Topps Eddie Mathews RC PSA 2 (item: 382765605798) for $1750 (either best offer accepted or buy it now price) to user "mastei3", real name Marc Steinberg. The listing was titled: "1952 Topps Eddie Mathews RC #407 PSA 2 Boston Braves". The listing description stated the condition as "very good", this is where I'm assuming the claim stems from, the fact that the card was graded PSA 2 GOOD and my conditional description mistakenly said "very good"? I attached the exact two images of the card which were uploaded to the listing and available to zoom in and see complete condition of the card.

The card was shipped priority mail and delivered February 15th to the buyer.

I was never contacted by the buyer in any form.

On March 26th, 2019, a month and a half later, I was notified by Paypal that an "Item Not As Described - Claim" had been opened up against me. I responded to Paypal with a written response detailing the exact listing, title, description and photos of the card, showing the buyer could see exactly what they were buying.

I called Paypal to understand more about what was going on, and they explained to me the buyer had went to their own credit card company and filed a "purchase not as described" claim and had gotten reimbursed by their credit card company and now their credit card company was contacting Paypal to recoup the money which they had refunded to the cardholder. Paypal immediately put my acocunt in debt to -$1750 and said I need to give them that amount of money to hold until the dispute is decided. Paypal told me they have a good track record of winning these kinds of disputes and it could take 75 days to finalize.

I also informed Paypal that I would've pursued the possibility of refunding the buyer and getting the card back if they would have contacted me and expressed their dissatisfaction about their purchase.

I contacted Ebay to explain the situation and ask for any assistance and they informed me they would investigate this buyer, and that he had apparently created over 30 different Ebay accounts/usernames, but they couldn't help me beyond that, because the buyer went around Ebay & Paypal with their dispute and went straight to his credit card company.

So that's the run down. Now I'm playing the waiting game. I have not attempted to contact this buyer as I figured it wouldn't do any good, they already filed a charge-back with their credit card company and it's too late to handle any disputes like gentleman. What's worse is I gave the buyer a positive rating after he initially bought the card, to this day he only has 3 ratings on his "mastei3" account.

I also paid $175 selling fee to Ebay upon selling the card.

I have a 100% positive buyer/seller rating on my "bagwell-1994" account with 140 ratings.

My questions to the knowledgeable folks here at Net54 are:

1. Is this my fault? Due to the goof of listing "very good" condition within the listing description for a PSA 2 GOOD card?

2. Or, is this buyer as conniving as I believe him to be? Is he operating in an intentional way to get reimbursed by his credit card co. while avoiding any contact with Ebay, Paypal or the seller while also intending to retain the baseball card?

3. If Paypal loses the case for me and I am forced to pay his credit card co. back, how do I ensure that I receive my Eddie Mathews card back? Paypal could not answer this question for me.

4. Has this happened to you or someone you know when selling an item? How did it work out for you/them?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Update 5/13/2019: I received a collection notice in the mail from ACI (American Coradius International LLC), they are a sister company to PayPal who seek collections. They did not report my collection to the credit bureaus, per our correspondence. The remaining balance is $784 (the rest of the $1750 has been paid off by cards I have sold through Ebay/Paypal, but I still owe $784).

PayPal never contacted me to Inform me the claim case had been lost and I was responsible to pay. I simply received a notice from a collection agency-sister company to PayPal. When I tried to call Paypal, they referred me to the collection company, PayPal would not speak with me at all, they referred me to the collection company
, the collection company supervisor was a baseball fan and felt sympathy for my dilemma but couldn't help me beyond that. He informed me "when the banks come to a conclusion, PayPal is powerless against it, they are simply a money-processing website and have no power against the banks."

Tomorrow morning I will go to my local police station to file a police report against Marc Steinberg for theft of $1750 of property. Yes I know, I should have pursued this sooner. But I was trusting in PayPal to "follow the process" which they assured me had a very high success rate in the past.

Beyond that, if I do not repay PayPal the remaining $784 balance, they will lock my account, preventing me from buying/selling using their processing tool. Not to mention they will report it to the credit bureaus.

The PayPal collection company urged me to contact the buyer and try and reconcile with them, as a last resort.

Do you think I should message the buyer and try and reconcile? I honestly felt it would be completely futile based on their actions and never pursued this course of action. Marc Steinberg already has the $1750 Eddie Mathews RC AND his money back! Why the f$%@ would he reconcile?! He never once contacted me, or Ebay, or Payapal, which is why I knew this was a scam to begin with.

Now I must focus efforts to paying back PayPal the remaining $784, while this pathetic con artist keeps on keeping on and screwing over others as he sees fit. At the end of the day, I will have paid about $3500 to the cause of criminals (card and cash included), which I dont have to pay. I'm a blue collar worker and baseball card collector for christ's sake.

Talk about losing faith in humanity..

Update 6/13/19:

Faith restored? Received email just now from PayPal that the case was won in my favor and they credited my account the $1750 back. This is especially great timing as I'm currently going through a financial crisis and am pursuing selling my whole collection with the help of a fellow Net54 member! Feeling very grateful this day :) and perhaps this is a good sign for anyone else who may encounter these kinds of battles in the future.

sheesh...what a mess...sorry to hear this happened. not a good day for ebay stories...unless you're a shareholder as the stock is on fire as I write this!!!

I think it's a combination of errors...your listing the card as vg when it's clearly in a 2 holder. But on the other hand a normal buyer would contact the seller to reconcile...so I think the buyer is somewhat crooked based on what you've described as well as the numerous identities.

I hope you get satisfaction.

I see that all the time in listings. I’ve seen a card listed as EX in the title and very good in the description.

Obviously try to avoid that in the future but this buyer is intentional. He intentionally waited a certain amount of time and went through his credit card purposely. It’s a clear PSA 2 good. You aren’t spending $1750 on a card if you don’t know what that is. It’s clear I’m the photo, the title, and description.

It wouldn’t surprise me if he saw the wording differences and intentional planned this all along.

Good luck.

FYI you still have VG on other listings (Randy Johnson BCCG 10). I would just get rid of that in all your listings. Just describe the card with the grade. I wouldn’t even get into what the grade stands for.

1. Nope.
2. Yep, worst case scenario.
3. You'll never see that card again, but I feel you have a good chance of winning the dispute.
4. Happened to me on non-card items, small change. Some of them were stuff I get for free at work and re-sell so I just never responded to the disputes.

It's interesting that ebay admitted the scammer has 30 accounts in blatant violation of the site terms, but this is good news. Disclosing this to you means eBay knows he is a thief. He's probably ghosting the dispute, which means the more you talk, the more likely you are to come out on top. If you are on the phone-from here on out record everything. Bottom line-one or the other has to come back to you-money or the card. I wouldn't accept the card, personally, it's probably been removed from that holder anyways which is one reason he can't/won't send it.

I'm interested to know how/why a borrower would issue a chargeback so quickly and decisively on this. The process usually is to issue a temporary credit while your lender processes the dispute. My big problem here is again, Paypal being the middle man. Lenders are supposed to contact merchants directly on chargebacks, but it's just one more right you give up using these platforms.

Scammers might be specifically targeting no-return listings, since they can lie in wait, then argue the item was not as described and they have no recourse other than a dispute. eBay is pushing collectibles sellers towards 30-day returns, and I'm now wondering if these cases factored into that push. It could easily dismiss this buyer's claim by simply asking why he didn't return within the mandated window.

Anyone claiming that the "very good" condition is the reason for returning a PSA 2 card is gaming the system, plain and simple. It's a bad faith argument. Still, those generic conditions have no place in our listings of graded cards. To insulate yourself further set any listings to the lowest condition.

I've just reviewed one of my listings and noticed the asterisk next to the generic "condition" drop down menu. Do you know of a method to remove this?

99% chance you will never see the card again. Unless he tries to list it under an alias. At that point I would probably buy the card from him and pull the same crap on him. Probably not right but screw these crooks. I hope you at least get your money back. Absolutely hate scum like this.

When I created listings, I believe it forced me to chose a generic condition from a drop-down box. I dont know how to avoid that, other than to chose the lowest possible condition of "acceptable"?

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Choose none of those...choose the BLANK option....the card is a PSA 2......that speaks for itself.

I would make sure the buyer knows you will fight this to the end either getting exact card back or your money... Failing that you should make sure he knows that you will sue him and put his name and address out on the internet everywhere... Fight fire with fire....

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First I would not give paypal the money. I would have told them I am happy to accept a return and as soon as I receive the card aI will put the money back in paypal and send it to buyer. Now paypal has your money the customer has your card and you have......??? So what incentive dose paypal have to fight for you...???
I have seen this a few times and all of them the buyer was scammer. I stopped leaving money in paypal just because this could happen.
Good luck
J

Yes, that would insulate you from the BS claim that it doesn't match condition. Acceptable doesn't appear on any grading service so no chance for confusion.

So this thieving pig has your card and the money? I'd call the police in your area and see about getting them to contact the police in his area and open a case for criminal fraud. I'd also be in contact with the postal inspector to open a mail fraud investigation.

Yeah, this guy stole your card pure and simple. Whatever the generic grade says in the item specific section, shouldn't matter a lick. You put PSA 2 in the title, you have a big ass picture in the description and you have PSA 2 in the description.

Even if you didn't have all that, he stole your card.

30 Ebay accounts? Jesus.........and Ebay doesn't find that the slightest bit suspicious?

:mad:

That credit card refund scam can work out badly for him. He’s already lied to his credit card company. It’s fraud and it’s grand theft. I would go after him through the police.

Fully agree. Further to follow the advice Adam gave below about contacting the police.

I haven't had the same exact situation happen, but have had similar ones. As has been mentioned while your "vg" description could have been more accurate - it imo has nothing to do with what's going on. If it was a legit dispute - 1- it would have been filed sooner and likely through ebay and 2- you would have had your card returned already.

Stories like this make me not want to sell on Ebay at all. I hope you didn't send PayPal the money they asked for. I certainly wouldn't have. Sounds like a POS customer trying to scam you out of a couple grand. He may or may not be using your listing error as justification for the dispute but I have a feeling this would have been the result regardless. Hopefully this ends with a favorable ruling.

Many have given great advice in this thread. Pay special attention and act upon any advice offered by Adam in this thread. That is my advice. :) I wish you well, Shain, and hope you come out OK in the end.

This

Agree with david omg

I had an issue with a guy who collects a specific photographer's real photo postcards. He left me a negative because he purchased three postcards with damage on the front. He believed from my pics that there was paper stuck to the front of the cards, but there was actually paper missing. I offered to refund if he sent the cards back, but he just wanted a refund and not have the "hassle" of sending the cards back. I refused, he negged me, I called ebay showed them the correspondence back and forth between us and they removed his negative. (btw all you have to do is offer a free return and ebay will remove a negative now). I blocked him and a few months later this guy under a new ID purchased a postcard from me, got it and left a negative. I suspected it was him and found that he'd used the same paypal ID to buy the card. Ebay removed the negative and I blocked his new ID.

Another month or so goes by and he buys another card from me with a new ID and leaves a negative when he gets the card. I call ebay and they remove the negative. I complain and ask them to kick this guy off their platform. The ebay rep agrees, but he says he doesn't have that power. He did inform me though the guy had 14 accounts and he added all 14 of his IDs to my blocked bidder list. I haven't had a problem since then, but I assume the a-hole will hit me again when I list a Sanborn card he doesn't have.

Geez....some people need to get a life.

Unfortunately, the world is full of vindictive douchebags, so the hobby gets its share.

I wonder what Ebay thinks the benefit is with letting the same person hold multiple accounts like that. That only allows for shady sh*t to go down, and not much else.

I've only ever had one account, but I completely understand if somebody wants to break up their buying from their selling account, or they have a huge store and want multiple accounts to sell different type products.........but otherwise, all other reason I imagine would be pretty sketchy.

Crazy story. Hopefully PayPal will do the right thing and get you your money back. I know exactly what you are talking about with the "generic" condition descripions that are required on listings, and those that have commented are right - they really don't make sense on graded card listings where the condition is inherent in the listing and on the slab in addition to being much more specific. They do all kinds of things with card listings pre-filled, for example what team, player and year it is - so I don't understand if you say PSA graded why they could not in-turn just give a drop down choice of what grade it is, 1-10, with choices for qualifiers, etc. The "very good" description could be if you are selling a piece of furniture and just need a generic term.

I meant to reply to this one before, and forgot. Then I saw you mention it on a different thread and remembered. I've had scam buyers try similar things before, I had one a few years ago for over $7000 and I know there's a couple others here who posted good instructions on how to best win these situations. The best piece of advice I can give you (and I won all of the cases and either kept the original funds and they kept the card or I received the card back and refunded) is DO NOT WAIT for paypal to make their automated decision. Provide everything they need up front, tell them you have satisfied your seller protection requirements (if you have), and that you want the case closed NOW and they can work out the chargeback situation behind the scenes. If you met all of the requirements (and one of these is getting signature confirmation on the delivery, if you did not you will probably end up losing this one), like proof they signed for delivery, upload it. Don't wait to get that either as I think the Post Office no longer keeps them on record for as long as they used to. File the police report now, then upload it to paypal. Upload anything else relevant. Then call and get them to close the case on the phone. Don't let a decision be made and then try to get it reversed, it probably won't happen. Good luck I hope it works out okay for you.

Happened to me, slightly different facts as my buyer get refunded by saying the requested a refund that I didn't give. Wasn't true, which I proved, along with all the other documentation that card arrived, was signed for, etc. etc.

Won't make you feel any better, I'm still waiting on resolution of mine. I tried to do it over the phone 2-3 times to no avail. Hoping for the best but prepared for the worst - they already took the money from me so not sure it can get much worse.

Here's my thread. Haven't updated since I don't really have an update, but it should be coming pretty soon.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=266398

You're Being Scammed
 

This is how I fought my scammer and won:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=244010

Just to close the loop on this:

I lost my appeal from PayPal, they closed the case and they released the funds to the perpetrator.

I called PayPal back, following the instructions here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/contact/call

I calmly explained that I was extremely upset, and I was contacting government authorities to open a criminal and civil investigation of PayPal and the eBay user. They reversed or cancelled the decision on appeal, and re-opened the case to give me a chance to upload police reports/complaints, etc.

I uploaded the police blotter from my local PD. I then filed a complaint with the USPS and FBI (Internet Crimes Complaint Center), and uploaded a copy of the submitted complaints. If you get in the same mess, you can click either of these links to get you started. It was very straightforward.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/form/file-online-complaint

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I also sent the complaints directly via email to the perpetrator. And every time something would happen from these government agencies and they would send me an update on my claims, I would forward those to the perpetrator as well. I kept it as professional and non-argumentative as possible. This was my email to the guy:

"I have filed formal complaints with the FBI Internet Crime Division, the USPS Office of Inspector General, and my local police department. Copies of the FBI and USPS claims are attached. I will send you the police department blotter under separate cover. Finally, I will be uploading copies of all of the complaints on PayPal's Dispute Resolution Center landing page, and I will be sharing with your local police department in Folsam, CA."

That was it. No threats. No anger.

Two things happened almost immediately after this:

(1) I got my first ever email from the perpetrator. He wrote, "your a phyco path dude" (his grammar and spelling, not mine) and told me he was told to destroy the card by ebay and would now instead send me the card back, which he miraculously did. I believe he did not follow what ebay (purportedly) instructed him to do because he knew it was the real deal all along!

(2) PayPal refunded my money!

I don't think it is fair for me to have my card and money, too; but I really don't know what to do here, because I cannot fathom sending the card back or giving this guy his money either. The perpetrator has not been in contact with me since his email a couple of weeks ago -- he has asked for neither money nor card (I wonder if PayPal let him keep the money, and PayPal paid me out of an insurance policy or something).

Moreover, the card may actually be part of a crime, so I do think I need to hold on to it now for some period of time in case the FBI, police, or USPS OIG come looking for it. After all, I have not, and do not plan to, withdraw any of my complaints.

So, for now, I hold on to both, and await further instructions. But, I hope this post will help others handle these matters if it happens to you.

WOW! Just....wow!

I stopped selling on eBay years ago. Too many bad apples. I sold a nice group of exmt vintage commons then got a request for a return. The buyer sent me back vg commons and eBay sided with him in the dispute. That was the last straw. Not worth the aggrevation. I've found selling through the bst to be much more pleasant.

See initial post for update.

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I am so sorry this is happening to you. What a wagon load of crap! This pretty well sums up why I avoid Ebay like the plague and haven't sold there in a long time. I have even gotten selective about sellers from whom I will purchase.

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Sorry this happened to you but I would as advised by other parties. File police reports against the buyer and Paypal for theft. Also contact your bank from which funds were taken by Paypal and file/open a complaint/investigation on that issue. File a lawsuit against the buyer. Use small claims court where you live as that's where the card was sold from. If he doesn't respond you'll get a default judgement and then you can have a quick asset search done, forward that to the Sheriff in the county he lives in and they will seize the money from his bank account on your behalf. Your reports and complaints will become evidence in the small claims case... That may re-open some communication avenues... I would not let it go...

I would follow exactly what t206 collector suggested in his post above. This is a shame and I feel bad for you, but file that police report right away! You’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain by beginning this process. Don’t let Marc Steinberg get away with this.

The biggest take-away....

Never trust anyone who spells Marc with a "c".

Seriously, this is horrendous, and I hope you get full resolution.

And f**k that a-hole for sullying my name! :mad:

Can't you file a civil suit against him? Small claims court?

Rob M

+1

My sense of it was that PayPal really doesn't want the USPS and FBI (Internet Crimes Complaint Center) digging through their business practices. Once you get them involved through the links I provided above, you upload the completed forms to your PayPal case and then call them on the phone -- talk to a real live person -- and tell them you're also going to upload a Police report shortly. This really turned the tide for me. PayPal shut everything down and refocused their attention on the buyer-perpetrator, not the seller-victim.

Updated: see very bottom of original post!

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Glad you finally got your money back. Still a sh*tty thing to have to go through.

:(

Good to hear it finally worked out. Thanks for updating.

Congratulations on the positive outcome. It's ridiculous that you were put through all that.