48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I won a 48 Leaf Joe D in the Mastronet Auction which now means I can get rid of my PSA 4.<br /><br />My PSA 4 was bought as a mint ungraded card in an Alan Rosen auction. However it has a tiny surface wrinkle in the picture which caused the card to grade a PSA 4.<br />Without this wrinkle, its a super sharp 8--better than the one I bought from Mastronet.<br /><br />If you were in my shoes and wanted to get rid of a card and wanted an 8 afterward would you<br /><br />1)Sell the card as a PSA 4.<br /><br />2)Go to Mastronet, tell them to take the crease out and have it regraded as an 8 and put it in the next Mastronet auction(WITH NO DISCLOSURE).<br /><br />3)Go to Mastronet, tell them to take the crease out and have it regraded as an 8 and put it in the next MASTRONET auction(but with disclosure that this card has had a crease taken out). Note--Mastronet might not do this.<br /><br />4)Do the same as the above two steps but keep the better card as a PSA 8 and ask Mastronet to sell the card I just bought.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br /><br /><br />

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I would first disclose that PSA mislabeled the card as a 1948 card when in fact they came out in 1949.<br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>B.C.Daniels</b><p>pull the card out and crank that baby down and out of that card!<br />should come back at least a 6 if you don't over stretch the corners after the crease is gone!<br /><br /><br />BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Why not an 8?

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>Knowing how you feel about these issues you should sell it as a PSA 4 even though it means leaving a lot of money on the table. You aren't going to feel good about yourself, I don't think, if you knowingly profit on a 4 turned 8. And I don't think anyone is going to sell it for you and disclose that it came out of a 4.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>B.C.Daniels</b><p>greed is a sin!<br /><br />unless you take litterally Ecclesiastes 10:19<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If you ask Mastro to turn it into an 8 then our dinner would be no more than a social gathering. Any discussion about improving hobby ethics would be superfluous.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry and others,<br /><br />I know what I am going to do--I am asking what others would do if they were in my shoes.<br /><br />Jim

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>What I would do- either leave it as is or perhaps consider resubmitting it to the graders for a second look. Getting rid of the crease would be unacceptable.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I'd send it to Charlie at Manontherock and sell it as a 9. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Sean Coe</b><p>Sell as is. Removing a crease is alteration.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>If I were you...<br /><br />I'd regret that I didn't secure a promise from Mastronet that the raw mint card would grade a certain way, and regret that I didn't send it back the day I got it from Mastronet because I would have gone over the card with an eagle eye to discern any problems that might exist; all because condition and having a card professionally graded 8+ is of paramount importance to me (meaning you).<br /><br />Having not done that, and having the regret, I'd do one of these:<br /><br />1- Sell the lesser card, in its graded 4 state, and live with the results.<br /><br />2- Break the card out, consign it for auction, and not let Mastronet sell it, so they don't make 4 commissions on one card, 2 buyer's and 2 seller's.<br /><br />3- Or find this situation an epiphany moment in collecting, sell the newly acquired 8, break the old 4 out, and start collecting ungraded cards.<br /><br /><br />I would lean toward 3, and I think you'll do 1. I think any of the 3 are ok.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>i'll bet there will be some people who will bid on it, with the intention of taking the crease out(& resubmitting) and others who buy the card and not the slab grade and cannot afford an 8 but feel as you said this is a beautiful card. after it sells i guess we will never really know. edited to add i would also bet that it sells for much more than a typical vg/ex slabbed card.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Ahhh, but Jim didn't feel that way about the beautiful card. It was all about the number. If he felt so good about it, he would not have replaced it, nor contemplated its disposal.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Frank,<br /><br />I bought the carrd from Alan Rosen raw in an auction in 1991. Sent it to PSA in 1995. And I collect PSA 8 and better sets and a PSA 4 is of no use to me.<br /><br />Jim

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>And I collect raw cards that are about vg to ex, a very few sets, some Cardinal cards, type cards of some sets, and specific players depending on who they are and what they did... an example of that would be Doc Prothro, who played for the Reds, Red Sox, and in Washington, in the early 20s. He played in the PCL and is on a Zee-Nut card. He was a dentist, hence the knickname. His son Tommy married a girl named Ann who was from Franklin, KY, my hometown. Tommy coached football, college and NFL, he coached the Rams, and was on the cover of SI. So I'm tickled when I pick up a Prothro card.<br /><br />I don't collect PSA 8 or 9 cards, they are of no use to me. For a multitude of reasons I like to be able to touch the card, not have plastic keeping me away. And I generally prefer a card that is worn a bit, so I'm not concerned about damaging a pristine card.<br /><br />I understand you enjoy collecting PSA 8 and 9 cards. I would find little joy in that. And I doubt if I'd ever find a Doc Protrho card if I'd only settle for a PSA 8 or better.<br /><br />So my previous post was correct, Dennis. The card "is of no use to" Jim because it isn't in a holder with 8 or 9 on it. Joe D was looking good. Still does. For Jim it isn't about a beautiful card, it is about 8s and 9s.<br /><br />There, I got through all of that without insulting anyone, I hope. <br /><br />An exception to my VG goal would be Angermeier fielding, Barney, Goostree leaning on bat, and Whitaker, all in series 6 of T210, I'll gladly buy or swap for those even if they're in fair shape.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Frank,<br /><br />No your previous post was in error which is why I corrected it. I said I won it from Alan Rosen and you rambled on about getting a pledge from Mastronet. And then you rambled on off topic about you like to collect vg-ex cards--wonderful--I am happy for you.<br />Imo, cards that are vg-ex are not beautiful--I do not like the looks of them at all--but that is just my opinion. If you want to collect off-condition cards be my guest but there is no need for the 45th time in the last month to say that I don't like beautiful cards because in my opinion that is exactly what PSA 8s, 9s and 10s are is beautiful cards.<br /><br />Jim

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>There will be vultures lined up waiting to buy that card in it's holder or raw. I guarantee you somewhere very close down the road it will be turned into an 8 (or 7) with a little help. I don't know the answer but this is what I am told makes many people millionaires nowadays....Those exact kind of cards do it. Again, I don't have the answer but figured I would at least make the the truth be known. This is not a debatable statement I am making. It is a fact......best regards

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Thanks Leon--I agree--someone will make the money converting this card from a 4 to an 8 holder.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>I stand corrected about your source of card.<br /><br />My comment about what you collect wasn't rambling... it is a factor in what you'd do with Joe D. I don't think you rambled when you said you collected sets, my comments explained what I collect. Were we both rambling there? I think it is a factor in why you have that card in the first place.<br /><br />To me PSA 8+s are off condition, they are off target of what I collect. <br /><br />And it is obvious that you are focusing on the number, not the card. PSA didn't alter your card when they graded it. You were happy with it when you bought it, but not happy after the grading. It was still the same card. <br /><br />Dennis said you said it was a beautiful card, but in looking back I see that you never said that. Still, I reckon you thought he looked good when you bought him, you were still satisfied with his appearance before grading, he looks the same, you're discontent with the card in some way now (I think it is the number on the plastic).<br /><br />I still think my 3 options are sound ones, and that you'll go with the first one.<br /><br />Have you a Doc Prothro Zee-Nut that is an 8 or better? I'd love to see it. Please post. Or any of the 4 T210 series 6 Old Mills I mentioned, even in a 4 holder??? Those would impress me much more than any 8 or better T206 card (but for the big 4).

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>My vote would be:<br /><br />5) Sell it to Al in the 4 holder at a great price.<br /><br />-Al

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Al,<br /><br />You would be at the top of my list to sell it to if I sold it as a 4--it is a super sharp card--definately a high end 8 without the tiny crease. But then again I thought the 38 Foxx in 5 should have been a 7--let me know how you do with that card.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Peace, Jim.<br /><br />And I think you should sell the card in the holder it is in, as it is.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>that DImaggio is an "BUTT UGLY CARD"....in a 10 ,9 ,8 ,7, 6, 5, 4<br />you guessed it ....3,2 and a yes 1 !!

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dan- how about in a 3.5?

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Jim:<br /><br />I cracked the Foxx and sent it back in, and it came back a 4. Still a beautiful card, and a keeper. I could crack it and resubmit it tomorrow, get a 7, and not be surprised. <br /><br />-Al

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>According to the Mastro online description:<br /><br />One of the finest such is here available — the #1 1948 Leaf Joe DiMaggio, and it is positively glorious.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />Not in my opinion but at a big discount to SMR was too good too pass up.<br /><br />Al,<br /><br />I agree--looked like a 7 to me.<br /><br />Jim

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>I know that you are not going to believe this ,but the best ooking one that I ever saw was , yes you guessed it, a 3.5 !<br /><br />looked better then the 10's ,9 ,8 ,7, 6 ,5 ,4 3.6...3,2 ans yes 1 The ugly set withpurple eyes ,red eyes, etc...blurry fuzzy-<br />dirty. These people get into autos and have road rage too ,they are<br />not confined to be goofy in just one area.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>So 3.5 is the magic grade- not too high, not too low.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Peter_Spaeth</b><p>We need a new thread, show us your 3.5s.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Did you intend your first post to passive aggressively challenge Mastronet's grading/disclosure practices? <br /><br />I recognize that Mastronet will prep cards for auction, but did Mastronet somewhere indicate that they were able to remove creases successfully and that they don't disclose the removed creases in their auctions?<br /><br />I've soaked the hell out of a number of T206 cards to get scrap off the back, but I've never had any real success in removing wrinkles in cards in the drying/pressing part of the procedure. And, spooning leaves an indelible mark that looks worse than the crease, in my opinion. How are people removing creases without detection?<br /><br />Paul

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />Yes--they said they will take light creases out.<br /><br />I have never seen disclosed in any auction that a crease has been taken out of the card.<br /><br />All I am doing is asking people what they would do if they were in my shoes. <br /><br />I have a good idea what I will do--but I wanted to hear opinions of others.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Jim- I'd sell it as a 4, albeit a very nice one, and hope people still buy the card not the holder. The only alternative is to crack it open, fully describe the card and sell it raw if you think that will bring more money. I would absolutely not try to remove the crease or have someone else do it for me.<br />tbob

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>I have a solution! Sell me the 4 for a 4 price!<br /><br />Jason

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- the frustrating thing about this is you could do the right thing and sell it as a 4, and then the winning bidder could crack it out, remove the crease, regrade it, and make thousands of dollars profit. So the extra money you ethically refused to take will just be taken by the next guy.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I'd leave it in the zoo pen, and if an elephant happens to step on it an elephant happens to step on it. You aren't respensible for act of elephant.<br /><br />At the zoo in the city where I grew up, a drunken man got inside the polar bear area and, with the man still inside, the police shot the polar bear. Numerous residents thought that that if they had to shoot, they picked the wrong animal.

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>So far I have 5 offers to buy the PSA 4.<br /><br />If I sell it to someone I do not know as a PSA 4 it will be interesting to follow what happens to this one.<br /><br />Jim

48 Leaf Joe D
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Would you be able to follow it? It will likely be reholdered at some point, and then perhaps sold privately. You may never see it again.