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Help Id'ing Team Photo from Matty McIntyre's Album
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I picked up this photo from Matty McIntyre's scrapbook. I believe it is from 1903-1905 and shows him playing winter ball with some other major leaguers in Cuba as well as Cuban star Esteban Prats.
Does anyone have info on this team? Can you help me id the players? I found this old thread on the McIntyre albums: http://t.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=84058 The back has the following names (as far as I can read them): Mitchell, Hurly, Robinson, McCarthy, Warren, Hickman, Quinlan, Pratt, McIntire, and Schrappy. Top Row (left to right) --- (LOTS OF UPDATES BELOW) 1) Mike Mitchell 2) 3) Rabbit Robinson ? 4) Jack McCarthy ? 5) Bill Warren ? 6) Charlie Hickman ? 7) Thomas Finners Quinlan? 8) Bottom Row (left to right) 1) Esteban Prats 2) Matty McIntyre 3) Chappy Charles ? Thanks! |
I'm pretty sure that's Mike Mitchell in the upper left (#1 in top row). He didn't make the majors until 1907, though he played in the minors from 1902-06. According to baseball-reference, he played in Cuba with the Reds in 1908 and the Phillies in 1911. If one of the last two guys in the top row is Finners Quinlan (which is plausible but not certain -- compare the Zeenut and the newspaper picture of Quinlan below), then this can't be any earlier than 1908, when he first played professionally. This rather detailed bio of Quinlan doesn't mention anything about him playing in Cuba, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything: https://finner68.wordpress.com/2017/...-ww-i-veteran/
https://finner68.files.wordpress.com...uinlanoaks.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...3c919a4d60.pnghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...05.16%20AM.png |
Mitchell
Agree that top left is Mitchell. There is a picture (labeled) of him with Robinson in the link to the album you included. Lower right looks like it could be Chappy Charles.
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Thanks for the input guys - I have updated the list. I based the date range on the previous Net54 thread - it is quite possible that this was taken in 1907 or 1908.
Finners does still look plausible - similar jaw, chin, and nose. Thanks for the additional pics. Chappy would fit with the name on the back too - and it would be fun if they used his nickname to give him a nickname. His chin, jaw, and head shape look right too. |
I found this quote from Tampa Bay Times April 2, 2017
"in May 1902, an All-Cuban baseball squad was touring Florida. A game was scheduled against Tampa's all-star team." http://www.pressreader.com/usa/tampa...82741996644263 |
Baseball-reference.com shows Chappy Charles playing for Matanzas in Cuba in 1908, alongside Esteban Prats. That was Charles's first year in the majors, and second year playing professionally.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=7e05df0f George McQuillan also played on that team, and I suspect that he, not Finners Quinlan, is the "Quinlan" at the right in the top row. http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...08.09%20PM.pnghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...08.22%20PM.pnghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...05.16%20AM.png |
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From Jorge figueredo's cuban baseball
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Great find Jason, thanks for posting that. Is there more info on the team there?
The leads in Jason's post gave me what I needed to really dig in. It looks to me like the players line up like this: ----------- "Mitchell" = Figueredo's (OF) F. Mitchell Baseball Reference shows Fred Mitchell 1901-1905: https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...itchfr01.shtml … though he doesn’t really look like anyone in the picture. As David and Webster point out, that is definitely Mike Mitchell (RF) on the upper left: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=mitche002mic https://www.baseball-birthdays.com/i...roduct_id=2715 He played in the majors from 1907-1914, but in the minors beginning in 1902 (Schenectady and Toledo that year). (Top row, far left) ----------- "Hurly" = Figueredo (C) Pat Harley Baseball Reference doesn't show a Pat Harley, but there is a Dick Harley (two actually, the other played in 1905) that played from 1897-1903 (1902 Tigers): https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...arledi01.shtml ...and who actually resembles the guy on the top row, 4th from the left. (Top row, 4th from left) ----------- "Robinson" = Figueredo (C) John Robinson Baseball Reference lists a Jack (John Washburn) Robinson (C) who played for the 1902 New York Giants (and two minor league teams in CT that same year): https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...obinja01.shtml …who looks like the guy to the right of the middle on the top. (Top row, 5th from the left) ----------- “McCarthy” = Figueredo (2B) Jack McCarthy Baseball Reference lists Jack McCarthy 1893-1907 (1902 Cleveland) https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ccarja01.shtml The photos are a perfect match. (Top row, 3rd from left) ----------- “Warren” = ???? ----------- “Hickman” = Figueredo (OF) Charlie Hickman Baseball Reference lists Charlie Hickman (1B/2B/RF) (1902 Boston & Cleveland) https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ickmch01.shtml Nobody in this picture looks a whole lot like the photo that Baseball Reference used for Hickman, but the Wikipedia photo resembles the guy 6th from the left, which lines up with where the name is written on the back: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charli...egshickman.jpg (Top row, 6th from left) ----------- “Quinlan” = Figueredo (SS) R. Quinlan Baseball Reference has nothing on a Quinlan that would work, I think we can rule out Finners based on the dating with things looking more and more like 1902-1903. There is a guy who is well known to T206 collectors who happened to start his minor league career in 1902 and who looks a lot like the last guy on the top right, Lee Quillen: http://explore.chicagocollections.or...ry/87/c825c41/ https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=quille001leo (Top right, far right) ----------- “Pratt” = Figueredo (1B) Esteban Prats Baseball Reference lists Esteban Prats playing in Cuba from 1902-1909: https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=prats-000est (Bottom row, left) ----------- “McIntire” = Figueredo (OF) Matty McIntyre (The spelling pretty much rules out that this was written in McIntyre's hand.) Baseball Reference lists (LF) Matty McIntyre 1901-1912: https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...cintma01.shtml (Bottom row, center) ----------- “Schiappy” = Figueredo (OF) M. Schippy I think Figueredo has this wrong. Baseball Reference shows that Lou Schiappacasse played RF for Detroit in 1902. The name on the photo is written “Schiappy”, so I think this might actually be Lou, whose nickname was Shippy, but here written out by someone who clearly knew his last name. https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...chialo01.shtml (Tough to tell from the pic, but possibly bottom row, far right) ----------- Of the players I listed above, the following were on the 1902 Tigers: Matty McIntyre, Lou Schiappacasse (only ML season), Dick Harley (1902 only season in Detroit). Arch McCarthy, from Figueredo’s list, also played a single ML season – for Detroit in 1902. Hickman and Jack McCarthy both played for Cleveland in 1902. Mike Mitchell played part of the 1902 season in the minors in Toledo, which is 59 miles from Detroit and 116 miles from Cleveland. John Robinson had his only ML season in 1902 for the New York Giants. Given the 1902 theme that runs through this, I think it is reasonable to guess that this photo was taken between the 1902-1903 seasons. ----------- Unaccounted for from Figueredo’s list: Art Brothers, Bill Carrick, Arch McCarthy. On the back of the photo but not on Figueredo’s list: Warren. Looking these guys up, the most common photo of Bill Carrick looks wrong, but this one, if you zoom in, is a ringer for the guy second from the left: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/play...hp?p=carribi01 Bill Carrick played his last season in the majors in 1902 and played in the minors in 1903 in Toledo (where Mike Mitchell played in 1902). Arch McCarthy doesn’t look like anyone in the photo, especially not the guy that still has no guess for an id (7th from the left): https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ccarar01.shtml However, Figueredo’s has Art Brothers’ name a bit wrong. There was an Art Brouthers who played a single ML season in 1906 but, like Mike Mitchell and Lee Quillen, started his minor league career in 1902: https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...routar01.shtml He also happened to be 6’1”, which would likely make him the one of the tallest guys on the team in 1902-1903, just like the guy 7th from the left in the top row. The pictures also look like a match. I am still not sure why Warren is written on the back, but it seems like we have decent ids for everyone in the photo at this point. ----------- This would make the photo ids: Top Row (left to right) 1) Mike Mitchell 2) Bill Carrick 3) Jack McCarthy 4) Dick Harley 5) Jack (John) Robinson 6) Charlie Hickman 7) Art Brouthers 8) Lee Quillen Bottom Row (left to right) 1) Esteban Prats 2) Matty McIntyre 3) Lou Schiappacasse |
With 12 names and 11 gents in the picture, I suspect that the man behind the camera is Warren.
I haven’t checked his Facebook page, but would be surprised if this very picture isn’t posted there.:eek: |
Nice work, Bryan. FYI, the SABR bio of Charlie Hickman says that he went to Cuba with the Boston Beaneaters in the late 1890s to support US troops fighting in the Spanish-American War. So it would be very plausible for him to be back there in 1902-03.
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/3d537ba3 |
Thanks David, and thanks for additional evidence for Hickman.
If anyone has other thoughts or corrections, I would appreciate them. The Wikipedia bio for Arch McCarthy also helps to explain the mix of Tigers and a bunch of young guys and players who made their only ML appearances in 1902: Archibald Joseph McCarthy[1] (born January 21, 1881 in Ypsilanti, Michigan) was a pitcher in Major League Baseball. His career was short, and he only played for six weeks for the Detroit Tigers in 1902 and did not return for the following season. He debuted on August 14, 1902 at the age of 21 and played through the end of the 1902 Detroit Tigers season until September 18. Nothing is known of Arch McCarthy's life before or after his professional career, and his date of death is unknown.[2] |
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