Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1768326)

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide (Post 1768333)

~cough~candiman~cough~

Originally Posted by griffon512 (Post 1768312)

I completely agree. Even if he is young (and I very much doubt he is younger than 20 based upon reading his words in this thread) he pursued an extended con. If someone makes a lot of mistakes when they are young that primarily screws up their own life (drugs, alcohol, etc.), I'm sympathetic. If the focus is on damaging someone's else life that's a whole different ballgame in my book. Plus I'm really tired of those that follow this pattern:

1) Sell yourself as an extremely devout Christian do-gooder by saying things like "all blessings to Jesus, our Lord and savior, etc."

2) Do a series of things over a long period of time deliberately damaging other peoples' lives.

3) Once caught (not before then), ask or expect to be vindicated though a bunch of superficial mea culpas.

I don't buy it, and I don't see that as being harsh or overly punitive. I see it as being a realist. If he earnestly wants to compensate for conning people he can undertake his own self-exile away from this Board/hobby. We are all full up on bad actors in this hobby. There is no need for another casting call in a year.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768218)

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1768282)

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 1767982)

Bye Felicia

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1768326)

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 1768438)

What a tremendously sad situation. With so much fraud and deceit, the hobby is getting harder to enjoy.

I remember when the cards were the focal point of collecting. Now, it seems like the scammers and BS stories get a disproportionate amount of the attention and headlines.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768474)

I think that someone who commits fraud, especially against other members should be banned for life from the board. By letting him back after a year or whatever shows that we forgive him for ripping us off. If somebody tries to hurt or rip me off, I cut off all ties with them forever. We do not need these people in the hobby and need to send a strong message to them.

Banning somebody from the board is only part of the solution. He will still be able to sell stuff on eBay and rip off unsuspecting people. eBay will still allow this type of behavior.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768475)

We have a year to think about reinstatement. If the time comes (and after age verification) this might be the first poll to see if someone gets reinstated. :cool: There doesn't seem to be a unanimous thinking on it?

PS. I wish the threads showing how there IS TODAY millions (I doubt that is an exaggeration) of dollars of fraud going on, got as much attention. Sigh.....

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768478)

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768478)

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768485)

But a poll on this one could be interesting.

Originally Posted by commishbob (Post 1768497)

Maybe "fraud related" threads could be placed in their own forum for search/posterity purposes. Down by the Water Cooler forums or below the testing forum maybe. Other card forums have a 'bad trader' section so perhaps this is something to consider. OTOH cluttering up the site with additional forums may not be desirable. Just thinking out loud here as it were.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768504)

I still think that this main forum would be the best place to discuss it. Having it buried in another section might make it difficult to find.
But the idea of having a "fraud related" thread can list sellers and buyers who have done wrong in the business. Who to watch out for. I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1768509)

My opinion is that if he can prove he's a high school teen, then he should serve his 1 year sentence and be re-instated with limited access to the BST (as a buyer only, not a seller - at least not for a while). We should just chalk it up as being young, irresponsible and immature. That's assuming Leon talks to him and gets the feeling that he's truly sorry.

On another note, I think banning someone for being a neo-Nazi is far worse than being a neo-Nazi. Since when does Net54 moderators intrude in people's personal lives and what they do outside the boards as long as the propaganda is not being espoused on the boards? I don't care what someone does outside the boards as long as they have positive things to contribute to the boards. I don't care if they're a member of the KKK, BLM, what political party they belong to, their religion or whatever. Why is any of that important to board membership (again as long as they're not espousing their views on the board)? Very, very intrusive. Worse than gov't intrusion in my opinion. Guess that's what America is coming to.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768510)

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768510)

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768520)

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I do care. If there is a confirmed skinhead, KKK member or worse on this board, and I find out, they won't be here. And if anyone doesn't like it they can pound sand.
BTW, I actually see the point being made concerning interfering in private lives. But this is a private board and it's not going to cater to those extreme haters, even if they don't espouse their hate on the board, while the current management is in place. ;)

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1768551)

The question then becomes where do you draw the line(s) and what's too extreme left and what's too extreme right?

As an odd personal experience/example, one of the first online groups I joined was an AOL chat board about listening to shortwave radio.

Turns out one member was a well known - like was on TV here in the US- racist. Except he was just a really mellow one, didn't come across as hateful, didn't express a wish for violence on anyone, just didn't want to live next door to anyone who wasn't like him. (Something I totally disagree with and find really undesirable even the relaxed way he expressed it) He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all.

Most of us just wanted them both to stfu and get back to discussing what weird radio stations were on what frequency....


So which would get banned? The mellow A-Hole, or the violence promoting guy who was probably ok in real life?

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768565)

I feel it is my duty to try to provide a relaxing, peaceful and friendly environment around here. The fact that there could be some who espouse hatred being in those groups, makes it uncomfortable for many members including myself. If someone keeps their views to themself, and they aren't running for the Grand KKK dude, then they probably wouldn't even be known about on this forum. I think it comes down to who we want to associate with. I firmly believe the great majority here don't want to associate with hate mongers. This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations. I can't imagine trying to do a deal with a known skinhead or Natzi on the BST, therefore it's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51 (Post 1768449)

... however, if he’s as young as he says he is, I think he can learn from this and be a good fellow young member of the card collecting community down the road. I’d give him another chance

Originally Posted by Buythatcard (Post 1768504)

… I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1768551)

… He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all…

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768485)

As for one strike and you are out, I agree if there is fraud where someone is currently financially harmed. If there is no financial harm I am more lenient. But a poll on this one could be interesting.

Originally Posted by Stampsfan (Post 1768589)

Given the direction this thread has taken, I feel I have to say up front that the following comments are made tongue in cheek. Cynical and self deprecating humor is something I embrace and enjoy.


Perhaps he counts his age the same way some Domincan baseball players do when trying to land a professional contract. "Hey, that kid in the Little League World Series has a beard..."


How about a list of eBay buyers who have 100% feedback and never renege on payment?
Wait, perhaps that may be too short a thread.


I think it's awful and hateful when people attach stereotypes to a group of individuals...
;)

Originally Posted by TobaccoKing4 (Post 1768508)

Maybe there should be a pinned thread that lists people that have been found to be scamming/committing fraud. This way people know to proceed with caution in dealing with those people in the event that are reinstated on the forum.

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1768607)

Good reason to avoid opinions on the board, thereby requiring your name be out there and subject to background checks 😉

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768565)

This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1768605)

Such as Neo-Natzi's, skinheads, KKK etc...?