The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Not wanting to hijack the other thread I was thinking about the really tough E cards. The normal E cards are fun and compared to T cards fairly scarce...but there are some in this group that are really rare. How would you put these in order of scarcity? I will give my thoughts later. This one is a bit tougher to put in order than the ones in the other thread...<br /><br />E120.. American Caramel<br />E121..American Caramel<br />E122.. American Caramel<br />E123.. Curtis Ireland (where the heck did this # come from)<br />E125.. American Caramel<br />E126.. American <br />E135..Collins McCarthy <br />E136.. Home Run Kisses <br />E145.. var. Cracker Jacks <br />E210.. York Caramels <br />E220..National Caramel <br />E222.. A. W. H.<br />E222.. A. W. A.<br />E223.. G & B Chewing Gum <br />E224.. Texas Tommy (-1 & -2) <br />E253.. Oxford Confectionery <br />E254/270.. var.Colgan's Chips (3 sets) <br />E271.. Darby Chocolates <br />E285.. Rittenhouse Candy <br />E286.. Ju Ju Drums <br />E300..Plows <br /><br /><br />edited out E136/E137 Zeenuts as there are different difficulty levels between the years and that is a disucssion in, and of, itself...

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>I am not familiar enough with a lot of these issues to rank them, but if you or anyone could merge the two lists for an overall ranking I think a lot would find it interesting.<br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>No card is tougher than the 1911 Zeenut Bohen IMHO. I believe the only one known in existence is a "die cut looking" one which was offered for sale a few years ago. The set is considered complete without it.

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Bob - I think there are dozens of cards found in some of the above sets which are unique.<br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I would agree as that particular card from the set is possibly the toughest from an E set...However, this is a lesson on the sets' toughness, not players....Though this AWA could be considered a variation they just don't get more tough than uniquely known....(again, I have an idea on the sets but wanted to see if anyone else would try first)...I will post my thoughts on the sets later...and it will be debatable..that's for sure. The only known AWA card...<br /><br /><img src="http://luckeycards.com/pe222awa.jpg"><br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Not including the variations. Bob is right in the sense that in Zeenuts there is wide variability between the years. Some years are akin to 1 of 1 cards, while others are commonly found. I think you have to break down the Zeenuts by years to arrive at a result that makes any sense, and perhaps again within some years to account for certain very rare individual cards (Bohen, Claxton, Arbuckle, Crawford come to mind readily). Fortunately, I'm not the guy to do it. Maybe Mark M if he's reading?

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>For this discussion lets take out Zeenuts except for the Home Run Kisses...since they are a different design I say lets leave them.....I will amend my first post to make the correction...

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>Here's my view...<br /><br />Toughest<br /><br />E222 AWA<br />E221 Team Cards<br />E222 AWH<br />E271 Darby<br />E223 G&B<br /><br />Tough<br /><br />E224 Texas Tommy <br />E125 American Caramel<br />E300 Plows <br />E286 Ju Ju Drums <br />E123 Curtis Ireland<br /><br />Then, everything else

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I knew I could count on you <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>. Now where is Dan M. and Dan S...?? The only thing I would possibly think different is the E286's. I have seen more of most of the others on your "tough" list than those....You pretty much nailed it on the toughest ones...but I will give my full thoughts later...<br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Glen V</b><p>I've heard that Fritsch has a large group of E286s. Also, a few years ago a major auction house had a lot of 18(?) Ju-Ju Drums. (I was the under-bidder, and still kick myself for not bidding more - they went for under $200 each.) Between those and others that must be out there, I figured they weren't quite rare enough for the toughest catagory. Then again, without a true count, who knows?

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Isn't Mastro supposed to be auctioning off Fritsch's collection? I know there has been a lot of unopened material and vending lots sold in the past few auctions, but I am wondering when the tough vintage stuff is coming.. How about those Doyle (NY Natl's)<br />JimB

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>What is the number of known examples for each card in these two catagories?<br /><br />Toughest: maybe 1 or 2 of each player known?<br />Tough: maybe 2-5 of each player known?<br /><br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>These seem to be the toughest:<br /><br /><br />E223 G & B<br />E271 Darby<br />E222 AWH<br />E221 Bishop<br />E300 Plows<br />E125 Die Cuts<br />E224 Texas Tommy<br /><br /><br /><br />I see these quite often on ebay:<br /><br />E145 Cracker Jack<br />E254 Colgan<br />E121 American Caramel<br />E210 York

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>My take...<br /><br />Toughest<br /><br />E221<br />E222<br />E271<br />E223<br />E286<br />E224<br />E254 (208 back)<br />E125<br />E123<br />E300<br />E270 Tin Tops<br />E210 Type 2<br />E270 Red Borders<br />E136 Home Run Kisses<br />E285<br />E126<br />E121 (80-ends eighty)<br />E122<br />E220<br />E210 Type 1<br />E135<br />E145-1 (1914)<br />E254<br />E121 (80-ends eighty of the)<br />E121 (120)<br />E120<br />E145-2 (1915)<br /><br />Easiest<br /><br />Again, just my experience<br />-Rhett

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>and my guess is:<br /><br />most common to most scarce (just one person's opinion)<br /><br />E121..American Caramel<br />E120.. American Caramel<br />E145.. var. Cracker Jacks <br />E254 Colgans<br />E210.. York Caramels<br />E122.. American Caramel<br />E135..Collins McCarthy <br />E220..National Caramel<br />E253.. Oxford Confectionery <br />E285.. Rittenhouse Candy <br />E126.. American Caramel<br />E270.. Red borders<br />E136.. Home Run Kisses <br />E123.. Curtis Ireland (where the heck did this # come from)<br />E125.. American Caramel<br />E270.. Tin tops<br />E286.. Ju Ju Drums <br />E224.. Texas Tommy type 1 <br />E300..Plows Candy<br />E224.. Texas Tommy type 2<br />E223.. G & B Chewing Gum <br />E271.. Darby Chocolates <br />E222..A.W.H. Caramel<br />E221..Bishops Team card<br />E222.. A. W. A. Caramel<br /><br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>I am loathe to get into these conversations, however I would argue that the G & B gum issue is the toughest. There are 60+ examples of it and I only recall 1 or 2 offered in the past 2-3 years from the major auction houses. I sold one on eBay that was trimmed, other than that there have been none on eBay recently. e222 and e221s are tough also, but have been on eBay (as you and I both know <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> ) and in major auctions about as much as the G&Bs. But there are only 12 cards in the e222 set and 5 in the e221 set.<br /><br />Therefore my advice if it wasn't clear is to dump your e221 and e222s....

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Yes, both of my E221's came from ebay but other than those I have probably seen 3-4 for sale in my 10-11 yrs of addiction. I have probably seen about 10 AWH's for sale, including 4 in one lot on ebay, that David L. picked up...as you know. So I have seen more of the G and B's (maybe 15-20) than those other 2 series. Are you trying for a smoke screen here <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>? A lot of the PCL issues are really tough...Unfortunately I don't see me dumping any of these soon.

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>George</b><p>How about the Orange Borders? For some reason, they do not have an "E number," but they are of the same ilk. They were cut from candy boxes, and include the Tigers and Pirates teams from 1909. I continuously look for them on EBay, but have never found one there. I rarely see one in an auction catalog.

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Orange borders are tough but I was only doing ACC/SCB catalogued cards with numbers....I think a seperate thread is in order for a lot of the other ones ie... Orange Border, J=K Candy, Allstar Candy, Big Eater etc.....A lot of them are really tough too. I will try to do a 2nd thread, later, pertaining to them....or if someone else wants to that would be fine. I would start out by using the list from our friends at OldCardboard in their Candy/Caramel card section (unc.)...and add to if it need be.....Good question though....best regards

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Leon - care to take a shot at merging the two lists?<br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>That will really make it interesting (merge the two) and I will do it later when I have a little more time. I will also try to give you my "guesstimates" on the population of the scarce cards. I don't think I want to try to give a population estimate of the more common ones ie....E120, E121, E145 etc.....there would be many thousands I would think....regards<br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Rob</b><p>Leon, how about splitting up E145 between 1914s and 1915s? Or do you think they'd fall right after each other anyway?<br /><br />Rob<br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>1914 Cracker Jacks are seen less often than 1915, from my experience....plus, as we know they (1914) almost always came in the boxes as opposed to being able to send in for the 1915's through the mail....I will break them out on the next guess....I see Rhys broke out his sets a little more than I did....I would politely disagree that the 1915 Cracker Jacks are more common than E121...but both are relatively easy compared to many of the other sets.

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>I like the way the Old Cardboard website distinguishes between traditional tobacco size caramels E90-107 and the cards discussed in this thread:<br /><br />E90-E107 are characterized as E1<br /><br />E120-E300, etc are characterized as E2<br /><br />

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Leon -<br /><br /> I don't disagree with your stements, I think the difference is between set collecting and type collecting. I would probably agree that more G&Bs have been up for sale over the last 5 years than e222 or e221s. However I couldn't imagine trying to complete the G&B set. I think there is a board member who is close which is just astonishing to me.<br /><br /> Dan McKee could speak about the Orange Borders, but in my experience they can be found on eBay with some regularity.<br /><br /> Baseball Bats and W555s should also be added to the list.

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Leon, it was Rhett not Rhys (but you aren't the first to make the mistake). I don't disagree that E121's as a whole are more common than 1915 Cracker Jacks, but if you break them up into the "Series of 80" and "Series of 120" from my experience the 1915's are slightly more common to equal than either one of those taken individually. But to be honest, on the "more common" side of the list, many of those sets are all seen frequently and it is tough to really determine which is the easiest.<br />-Rhett

The really tough candy cards
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Sorry about that. Have you ever made a mistake so often it becomes almost the norm? I do the same thing with Tony Andrea and Tony Arnold. I always get them mixed up too...for no apparent reason except the name. Breaking out the E121 by series I would agree with you...but like you said too, these are all fairly common relative to the other issues we are speaking of. My first list was cut and pasted from the OldCardboard site and I decided to leave the easier ones in here....