Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>'Babe' sellers see bad signs <br /><br />Give authenticators failing grade<br /><br />BY MICHAEL O'KEEFFE<br />DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER<br /><br />Monday, August 6th 2007, 4:00 AM <br /> <br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Print Email Suggest a Story <br /> <br />Babe Ruth<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Longtime TV sports journalist Robert Bender left his family with a mountain of medical bills when he died last fall after suffering for years from Alzheimer's disease. But he did leave his survivors with several assets, including a home in Hilton Head, S.C., and his collection of sports memorabilia, most notably a baseball autographed by Babe Ruth.<br /><br />Bender's family hoped to sell those items to pay off its debts, but the declining real estate market has made it difficult to sell the home in South Carolina. The politics of the sports memorabilia industry, the family says, have set back its efforts to get a fair price for the Ruth ball.<br /><br />"We were punished," Bender's son Bob Bender says, "because we didn't choose to sell the ball through Mastro Auctions."<br /><br />In the world of sports memorabilia, authenticators are supposed to be knowledgeable third parties who grade autographed balls, trading cards, jerseys and other collectibles with a cold, objective eye.<br /><br />But collectors and dealers have complained for years that authentication companies award higher grades for big-volume customers, including Mastro Auctions, sports memorabilia's largest auction house. The story of Robert Bender's Babe Ruth baseball, they say, suggests the relationship between Mastro Auctions and PSA/DNA, the hobby's biggest autograph-authentication service, is too cozy.<br /><br />"There's no doubt Mastro gets preferential treatment from PSA/DNA," one hobby executive says.<br /><br />Robert Bender, the longtime sports director at WGY-TV in upstate Schenectady, met and interviewed some of the biggest names in sports history, including Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams, according to his son, who now lives in Atlanta. Along the way, Robert Bender picked up some souvenirs, including the ball autographed by the great Ruth. "He probably got it during an interview," Bender says.<br /><br />His father, Bender adds, must have had a sense that the ball would be worth something some day, because he didn't leave it lying around the house, where his kids might grab it for use in a sandlot game. Instead, he put it in a safe-deposit box with its original carton, where it sat undisturbed for decades.<br /><br />Shortly after Bender's death, his family decided to consign the Ruth ball and other autographed baseballs to an auction house. After researching various houses, Bob Bender settled on two candidates - Mastro Auctions and Long Island-based Leland's. Both companies, after being provided scans of the ball, said the ball would be a star of any auction because it was in great shape and the autograph was crisp and sharp. According to Bender, both guaranteed at least $75,000 for the ball but said it would probably go for six figures.<br /><br />"They both led us to believe it was one of the best Ruth balls they had ever seen," said Jean Bender, Bob Bender's wife.<br /><br />Leland's ultimately got the nod, Bob Bender says, because it seemed more responsive and more personable. When Mastro president Doug Allen was informed about the decision, however, he told Bender his family had made a terrible mistake.<br /><br />"The reason for my concern is relationships," Allen wrote in a November e-mail to Bob Bender. "The other balls in the collection will take care of themselves. The Ruth ball on the other hand will depend on relationships; a relationship with PSA/DNA and relationship with high-end customers. I already shared the images with PSA/DNA and am convinced we could have maximized the grade on the ball."<br /><br />In another e-mail, Allen said, "I hate to see you go with a firm that cannot maximize the grade with PSA and ensure you get a world-class price for this ball."<br /><br />Allen says he was not suggesting Mastro Auctions could pull strings to get a higher grade than Leland's. Instead, he says, his company knows what items should be graded and how to prepare them. "I spend more money for our customers than any other auction house," he says. "We get record prices for our items."<br /><br />The Bender family, however, was not persuaded to change its mind. The ball was given to Leland's, which then submitted it to PSA/DNA.<br /><br />PSA/DNA, however, first claimed there was evidence that two other autographs had been removed from the Ruth ball, which would significantly reduce its value. Leland's submitted the ball a second time and was told an inscription had been removed, which would also erode its value.<br /><br />Leland's finally brought the ball to James Spence Authentication, a Pennsylvania autograph authentication service that ran the ball through its video spectral comparator, a sophisticated machine that uses magnification and different kinds of light to detect erasures and forgeries.<br /><br />"You can see things you can't with the naked eye," says Spence. "There was no evidence that anything had been removed. There are differences of opinion, but we had six people huddled around it through different cycles. We did our due diligence and we believe nothing had been removed."<br /><br />PSA/DNA president Joe Orlando did not return a call for comment. PSA/DNA eventually graded the Benders' Ruth ball an eight on a scale of 10, and although it's a high grade, it would not likely bring the six-figure payoff Bender says Leland's and Mastro Auctions had said the ball would fetch.<br /><br />The whole experience has left Bender with a bad taste, and he says his family will hang on to the ball for now and try to sell it at a later date.<br /><br />"I wish I knew more about this industry before I started messing with it," Bender says. "We're not sure what to do now."<br /><br />Related Articles

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>A quality story with just the facts.....who'd have thought?<br />Certainly, there now seems to be a series of such incidents that are building a less than stellar picture of Mastro Auctions.<br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>Not sure I really have anything else to say about it, because those comments would likely be irresponsible and inappropriate.

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Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>In another e-mail, Allen said, "I hate to see you go with a firm that cannot maximize the grade with PSA..."

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Trial with Bill Daniels...Shill Bidding accusations...now this. <br /><br />Doesn't it seem like every month there's something? <br /><br />Autographalert.com noted that the entire autograph industry is in "shambles" and there's no question that this doesn't help it's cause. <br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>Someone suggested that cards were being reslabbed by PSA to hold different registration numbers when they were put up for auction (again) after not selling - was that Mastro auctions?

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>that was Memory Lane

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>What paper is this from? "Daily News" hardly narrows it down.

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Posted By: <b>Dave</b><p> Don't care what anyone thinks of O'Keefe.....this paints a truly terrible picture of the people at Mastro, and PSA....YET AGAIN !!! Further evidence that both companies can manipulate the sports memorabilia market seemingly at will.

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Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>"I hate to see you go with a firm that cannot maximize the grade with PSA", Doug Allen.<br />There is only one way to interpret that statement as far as I know.<br />-- <br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>For the person who asked - the story is from the NY Daily News.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Whatever O'Keefe's agenda may or may not be, those are quotes he is offering and if accurate, are pretty damning

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Damn that O'Keefe! Now he's inventing Doug Allen emails! I smell a conspiracy....

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Posted By: <b>Joseph</b><p>It always amazes me that a Doug Allen would memorialize his concerns IN WRITING. He really must believe there's nothing untoward about what he said about "relationships" in that email...<br /><br />And another thing: SO WHO GOT IT RIGHT? Were there sigs removed from the ball?

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Doug did not say Mastro would alter the ball in any way. Nor did he say Mastro could obtain an inappropriate grade. EDITED TO ADD I think what people are reacting to is the explicit statement that grading is not always entirely anonymous. But is that Doug Allen's fault? Or is it PSA's fault? Or is it just inherent in the system?

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>How exactly does Mastro 'prepare' signed pieces (as opposed to generic sportscards which we have been apprised of <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>) for grading, and by what method can they profess to 'maximize' grades with PSA, seemingly unavailable to another submitter..??<br /><br />Seems a pretty astonishing statement to make.<br /><br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p>Allen says he was not suggesting Mastro Auctions could pull strings to get a higher grade than Leland's. Instead, he says, his company knows what items should be graded and how to prepare them.<br /><br />******************************************<br /><br />That's an especially strange reaction given that the consignor probably told Mastro that he chose Leland's. It's not like they're a bunch of hacks. What special 'prep' methods does Mastro use that Leland's wouldn't utilize on an item this valuable? <br /><br />edited to correct typo.

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Daniel I don't know what exactly is involved in grading a ball, but obviously there is some subjective element. Perhaps Doug meant only that a firm such as Mastro, with its own in-house experts etc., could more effectively present a case to PSA that a ball was deserving of a particular grade. In an ideal world I guess items would be graded without the grader knowing the identity of the submitter and without any interaction, but one would have to be naive to think that is always the case.

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>for grading submissions, and those instructions are available for all to see on the grader's website.<br /><br />But for my next submission, perhaps I will iron out creases, fold back bent paper layers, and then stamp my submission form with a Mastro label!<br /><br />Hmmmph.<br />

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>If this item was in a single household, kept in wonderful condition over all these years (and the ball was in nice shape), how did a couple of signatures simply desolve over the years? Do you think the recent discovery of a multi-signed ball by people uninvolved (and unknowing) decided to mess with the ball by exposing it to chemicals to remove the other signatures or doing research to manually fade the signatures? <br /><br />Thankfully they didn't come across the Mona Lisa or they would have drawn a smile on it?<br /><br />If PSA/DNA made mention of removed signatures or personalizations and JSA says "no way" and has the technology (does PSA/DNA not have this technology?), what does that say about PSA/DNA? It's not like an autograph which is subjective, like the signature comes into question. There has to be a true device to determine whether there was ink already on something...a machine...a man in a white coat with a forensic degree...something.<br /><br />Something stinks here folks.<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>Thankfully they didn't come across the Mona Lisa or they would have drawn a smile on it?<br /><br />That IS a smile. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>One thing to note is that Mastro uses both PSA/DNA and JSA for their auction autographs.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I have seen some items in Mastro that have only had one issued LOA (not sure if recently) and I have even seen that didn't have any LOA from either of the respected companies.<br /><br />David, curious, why all the editing after each post? <br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>DJ please read the artical. What does Mastro using both authenticators have to do with story.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I was just pointing out that this isn't a tale about the opinion of a company Mastro uses and supports versus the opinion of an outsider company. Mastro uses and supports both companies.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I did read the article Shelly. <br /><br />I was making a comment on David's post.<br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Sorry I ment to write David not you.

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Posted By: <b>Neal Kane</b><p>if some facts are being left out.

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>I'm sure that if Doug said these things he was simply indicating that Mastro would do a better job communicating the history of the item to PSA to facilitate their work. There is no preparation with a ball--pack it up securely, ship it off. If in fact PSA would give favorable treatment to a Mastro submission over a Lelands submission then that is an indictment of PSA not of Mastro.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Doug could have and probably should have said that he felt the ball would sell for more in a Mastro auction than in other auctions, and left it at that. Relationships with high end collectors is fine to mention, after all they are the bidders. Talking about maximizing grade doesn't sound good. I don't know how one maximizes the grade without something unwholesome not going on.<br /><br />As a nickel and dime collector, the only way I would know how to 'maximize' the grade for one of my baseball cards is either to 'prepare' it, get preferential treatment from a grader or resubmit it multiple times (and hope the grade doesn't go lower!). As I don't alter cards, don't know a grader and have never submitted a card for grading, I guess I've never maximized a card.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>There are always facts left out in cases like this. <br /><br />We have all heard stories like this with authenticating companies. It's just yet another black eye for the autograph business. How many eyes does it have left? <br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>I would like to see the entire email, not just a couple sentences.

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>It is an indictment of Mastro if they're using strongarm tactics to manipulate the authentication business. That said, we're only getting one side of the story here. <br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...that the Bender family never should have gone public with this story, since it will follow this baseball around like a cloud of suspicion.

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>I'm just saying... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>DJ, I edit my posts as Leon calls me and says, "You can't use that word!," "You can't say that-- they're one of our advertisers!" and "Just wait until SGC pays their banner bill, then you can what you want." We also disagree about which is correct translation of Lautreamont to quote from.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Here is what bothers me the most about the article. Psa turns down the ball twice and in the end they grade it and 8. If the ball had signatures removed in the beginning what happened to them in the end?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Damn. I don't like this O'Keeffe dude, but Doug Allen has got some explaining to do...and not just for this baseball. He still has not addressed the football helmet that was being discussed over at GU.<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>PAS</b><p>I agree that the apparent inconsistency of the grading service is more troubling than anything Doug said. But one sees this all the time with cards, a card gets rejected for one reason, then for a different reason, then it gets slabbed. What this underscores to me is that we ultimately are talking about OPINIONS, not facts.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>What i am talking about is that only after Jsa said the ball was good did PSA then authenticate it. It seems that there is something rotten in Denmark.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p><I>Allen says he was not suggesting Mastro Auctions could pull strings to get a higher grade than Leland's. Instead, he says, his company knows what items should be graded and how to prepare them.</I><br /><br />To me, if this is true, it the most damning comment. I'd like to know what they were planning to do to "prepare" this ball for grading? I thought Doug came on this board and said Mastro wouldn't be doing things like that anymore? Maybe I misunderstood him. <br /><br />the more I learn and hear about what goes on behind the scenes at Mastro the more I really distrust them and wonder just how much, if anything in their auctions is unaltered.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br /><br />In the fiercely competitive world of baseball card and autograph dealers,<br />competition for the very best items is cut throat at best.<br /><br />We study dozens of publications and a plethora of web sites.<br /><br />Regardless of whether an advert appears in a "hobby magazine."<br />price guide or antique publication nearly every dealer promises<br />"record prices."<br /><br />In fact, Mastro Auctions is far more conservative in its advertising<br />approach than a number of other dealers.<br /><br />Our experience with Doug Allen and Mastro has always been positive.<br />They don't over promise and they work hard to ensure that the items<br />they sell are properly presented and realize a price which meets or<br />exceeds the seller's expectations.<br /><br />Mastro's marketing efforts pale in comparison to those of the best<br />known international auction houses...several of whom have funded both<br />buyers and sellers in the same auction.<br /><br />We have the upmost respect for Mastro Auctions, and it has, in fact, been<br />our second best resource (REA has provided impecable service to us both<br />as a buyer and a seller).<br /><br />Whilst no auction house or invidivual is "perfect" the shameless attacks on<br />Mastro emanate more from jealousy and envy than from fact.<br /><br />What is particularly interesting to us is that many of the lead attackers don't<br />even have the resources to buy the catalog never mind the items that<br />are being sold.<br /><br />Mastro, while not perfect, has made an incredible contribution to this hobby.<br />Their efforts have brought amny long lost items to the public's attention.<br /><br />We ask that those who are all too anxious to be critical analyze the facts and<br />attempt to control their lack of emotional intelligence.<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Thanks for the jab Bruce. I always appreciate it. As always, you prove you are lowest of low of the upper class that you try so hard to pass yourself off as. I know people that you would call trailer trash that have more class than you do.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Oh boy, here we go!<br /><br />I don't think envy or jealousy is the issue here. Even I have some concerns with the phrase "preparing things", but I am not envious of Mastro Auctions by showing curiosity.<br /><br />I think it's fair to ask them what that statement means.

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Posted By: <b>jeffdrum</b><p>How much money does one have to have in order to have an opinion or point of view that's relevant? Just wanting to know so I can save my breath if need be.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Jeff, you have to at least be able to trace your roots back to the Mayflower and us "we" instead of "I" in order to have an opinion that counts.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>Whilst I can afford the catalog from Mastro, I cannot afford to continue reading diatribes from Bruce Dorskind without responding.<br /><br />The only times he posts anything is to copy a press release from another website, or to promote some item he loaned to a museum. There are far richer people who read this board, and who have collections that blow his away.<br /><br />He has never once that I have seen shown a scan of an item he presumably owns (although he has been asked many times to show them), and does nothing to contribute positively to this board.<br /><br />I prefer reading the antics of Scott Elkins, and the conservative posturings of Jim Crandell over anything Bruce has to write.<br /><br />I still want to know if he uses the royal "we" in his communications with whatever clients he might have. Pompous seems to kind a word, but I will leave it at that.

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br />We wonder who has supplied you with information with regard to income of Board Readers?<br />In fact, there are a cadre of people who read the Board, but never post. It is interesting that<br />you are able to compare and constrast their incomes. What other special talents do you have?<br /><br />And which Federal Laws have you violated in order to obtain the recent tax returns of Board Members?<br />.<br />Our postings reflect our opinion. The point of the Mastro Posting was simply to acknowledge that<br />Mastro Auctions has made an important contribution to the hobby. It is inappropriate to draw<br />conclusions about an issue from one newspaper story.<br /><br />As for posting items from our collection, we refer you to numerous books where said items have<br />appeared...that is, of course, if you are able to read English.<br /><br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Why don't we all calm down a little before this gets out of control.<br /><br />Bruce, please try to address people with a little more respect. You can state any opinion you want but you can also do it without putting yourself on your own pedestal.<br /><br />Mastro has made contributions to the hobby, but the company has found themselves in the middle of a lot of controversy lately. And anybody is fair game. People have questions and would like answers. That seems reasonable, don't you think?

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Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>Brucie,<br />I'm pretty sure that Keith Olbermann, and several other people who read this board could not only buy and sell you, but make your collection look like a bunch of beaters. For someone who is a supposed expert in communications, your failing ability to do so with the general public is appalling. Your inability to come to the simplest of conclusions with few available facts is even more so.<br /><br />What is your purpose of occasionally chiming in on this board, other that to be obstreporous and condescending? Where do you even find the time to do so with the bank mergers, and other non-value added services you provide that must keep you busy?<br />

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Bruce, shouldn't the question be, where did you get the tax returns to determine who the board members are that cannot afford o buy a Mastro catalogue? You are the one the made socio-economic statements, no Mike.<br /><br />Without fail, any time you don't like someone's opinion, it becomes a class warfare issue, with you starting it.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I am NOT envious nor jealous. In fact, here is a card I consigned to Mastro back in 2001. Anyone can see the "preparation" Mastro did to this card (1st scan is before and second scan is the after pic). Instead of being jealous, Jay Behrens, Jim Crandell, myself and MANY other true collectors would really simply LOVE TO SEE MASTRO BE HONEST AND CLEAN UP THEIR ACT, INSTEAD OF CLEANING UP CARDS!<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186442693.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186442825.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"It is an indictment of Mastro if they're using strongarm tactics to manipulate the authentication business. That said, we're only getting one side of the story here."<br /><br />I do not think you can strong arm a nearly monopolist firm. <br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>john</b><p>?????????

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Straight from Websters, with apologies to Bruce for not using Oxford's Unabridged<br /><br />Main Entry: ob·strep·er·ous<br />Pronunciation: &b-'stre-p(&-)r&s, äb-<br />Function: adjective<br />Etymology: Latin obstreperus, from obstrepere to clamor against, from ob- against + strepere to make a noise<br />1 : marked by unruly or aggressive noisiness : CLAMOROUS &lt;obstreperous merriment&gt;<br />2 : stubbornly resistant to control : UNRULY<br />synonym see VOCIFEROUS<br />- ob·strep·er·ous·ly adverb<br />- ob·strep·er·ous·ness noun<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>Correct spelling is "obstreperous". It means to be stubbornly defiant and aggressively boisterous.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I believe Bruce types his posts with the same Thesaurus Mastro uses to concoct their auction descriptions with. <br /><br />BTW - Barry, it was a real pleasure to receive your last auction catalog. Short and to the point descriptions - great!<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Thanks Scott. I'm a firm believer in being succinct. The cards and the pictures speak for themselves...and does anybody really read all that drivel?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I do. With so few decent comics in the newspaper anymore, I need to find my laughs anywhere I can.<br /><br />Jay- loves Get Fuzzy and wishes The Boondocks would come back soon.<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Oh Bruce...Bruce...Bruce..Bruce...ahhhhh<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/huge/Bruce.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I hate to be the grammar/spelling cop tonight, but when one is as arrogant as Bruce and speaks (types) like he's the King of England shouldn't he at least be able to spell?<br /><br />What the hell is "upmost"? And you have at least one other misspelled word in there too Bruce, but I'll let you figure it out. Consider it an educational exercise.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Scott, what did you do when you noticed Mastro "prepared" your card? Did they mention the "preparations" they made in the description?

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Posted By: <b>Mark L</b><p>Scott-- whatever you think about preparation, you have to admit they did a pretty nice job on that card. What do you suppose they used?

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Posted By: <b>scott brockelman</b><p>I just realized that most of the known T207 Red Cross cards came from the same collector that adhered them with the same glue as all the T215 Red Cross cards which are normally found with the same yucky brown bugger at the top.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>I will begin this piece by saying I can not spell. I will make mistakes. I am not perfect. Now that I said that I will vent. What is wrong with you people. This is not a joke, it is a problem that you look at and you laugh I went to prison because it was easy to cheat and lie to people. Its not funny. You trust people to do the right thing. You send items to be authenticated and graded and when your cheated it cost you money. If Masto fixed that card it as bad as forgery or any other crime. You made money cheating someone. If you doctored a card and sold it as authentic you cheated people.I talked to Leon today and I asked him what is the difference between a club house sig and a forgery. His answer was there is no difference. It is the same with cards. If you change what that card is it is no longer authentic. I find it insulting to see grown men make fools out of themselves. I put that article up to show you what is happening over and over again in this hobby. Your answers at the start where important and then as usual you make fun of yourself's. This is a forum for people who care what is happening to this hobby. I have spent the last seven years trying to make up for something I did. Now I look at the replies on this site and find out that most of you don't care so long its in your best interest. Well I will tell you that if it keeps going the way it is your cards and this hobby will be like Confederate Money. Stop this BS and care what the hell is happening out there. <br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>I used to view claims of preferential grading by PSA for large customers with some skepticism; however, I find it hard to understand Mr. Allen's email quotes as expressing anything other than a claim that Mastro could have obtained from PSA a preferential grade on the ball simply because it is Mastro.

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I knew of the "alteration" "cleaning" "preparation" (whatever Doug Allen is calling it this week) before the auction catalog came out. I was getting out of collecting and consigned the card directly to Doug Allen in/around 2001. I was going to post the description, but it was too large and I had to cut out the pic of the card itself and omit the description Mastro provided in the catalog. I know Doug has said different since, but when he contacted me via phone, he said the "cleaning" of the card would only require a Q-Tip and bleach. I was against it, as I don't believe in alterations. PLUS, I thought the card would sell better without cleaning, since people would recongnize the back as the card being in Lipset's Encyclopedia. Without the "bugger" at the top, as Scott B. refers to, I thought people would not recognize the card from Lipset's Encyclopedia. To make a long story short, I agreed to the cleaning, as I was getting out of the Hobby (which lasted a couple of years), and Mastro cleaned the card, listed it WITHOUT stating anything about the cleaning and sold it - end of story.<br /><br />BTW - Barry, what I really hate as well in auction house (and some eBay) descriptions, is when the seller gives stats and tells how great a player is - Hell, if someone is bidding on a vintage Cobb with Cobb back, they probably know Cobb is the all time leader in batting average! Keep up the nice auctions, and I look forward to your next "NO NONSENSE" auction!<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Dan B. - I was about to say something regarding Bruce's use of "upmost" instead of utmost. Glad you brought that to "their" attention!

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>the four Red Cross T207's from the LA find all had the "bugger" at the top, as well as the T215's from the find.<br /><br />Shelly - I agree with EVERYTHING you stated. From my experiences, Mastro is doing nothing short of STEALING from people with these alterations and lack of explanations in their auction descriptions.<br /><br />Scott R. - I have heard from several honorable people (many of whom post on this board) that Doug and people from Mastro (including Bill Mastro) have told them to let Mastro do the submitting for their consignments. These people were told that Mastro WILL get them higher grades than if the cards were submitted by these individuals! Again, this is coming second hand from some people on this board, but I would believe these people, as I have known them for years and they ARE HONEST!<br /><br />Everyone - Just wondering what are people's thoughts as to the T207 Blackburne I posted? What are your views on this one? Is this form of altering OK????

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>from the Mastro auction.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1186451064.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>paul</b><p>Not THE Shelley Jaffe?<br /><br />Or should we better know you as "Eddie" of HBO fame?<br /><br /><br />Anyway, if you are the same Shelley Jaffe, why on earth after being nabbed in the Operation Bullpen Sting have you now decided to turn over a new leaf and become a crusader for all that's right and good with the world and to correct the ills of the industry? You didn't seem to have a problem stocking and presumably selling questionable material before you were arrested.<br /><br />According to the FBI, your seized inventory consisted of:<br /><br />Shelly's Cards<br />(Shelly Jaffe)<br />Tustin, CA<br /><br /><br />Baseballs 144 Hats/Helmets 22 <br />Photos/Posters 104 Other Balls, Pucks 1 <br />Bats 13 Albums, CDs, etc. 0 <br />Cuts 1 Misc. 0 <br />Jerseys 4 <br /><br /><br />Have you recompensed (made whole) any and all customers that purchased any questionable material? I realize that you've served your time, but as we've recently seen with other convicted felons in the industry, this aspect seems to be often overlooked.<br /><br /><br />Gotta be honest with you, if you are the same Shelley Jaffe, I sure as hell don't have any time for you or your agenda. Doing time at Club Fed does not exonerate you especially when the conviction is in an industry that you now purport an earnest desire to clean up when you were a part of the problem to begin with. <br />

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>joebrennan</b><p>"What is particularly interesting to us is that many of the lead attackers don't<br />even have the resources to buy the catalog never mind the items that<br />are being sold."<br /><br />A direct quote by the Foreskin group to once again put down collectors in this hobby that have a life other than refering to ourself in two or more people with a partner almost assuredly named Sybil.<br /><br />Right on cue you prove again what a pompous ass you really are. Typical Forskin post. And you have the nerve to call me low class.I don't think low life windbag does justice to your disreguard for anyone but yourself and your imaginary we that is always mentioned that makes you look more and more like a classic case headed for Belview. When is enough, enough for you.<br /><br />The Brennan Group of one. <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I will quote Comte de Lautreamont: "Poetry must be made by all and not by one." <br /><br />Shelly, when Jim got on his soap box (and for correct reasons), basically everyone tugged as his shirt tails to get him off. The truth of the matter is that nobody cares about who gets harmed in the card or autograph business, whether a crease is removed and sold for thousands more, or whether an authenticator was shady in their ways. Is any of this a white collar crime? <br /><br />We prefer to look the other way before we admit there is an issue with something we love. I think we are so immune to this kind of stuff, that it's accepted. Will people still buy from Mastro? Of course. Head high in bad news...prices will still be through the roof. <br /><br />Here is the link to the above mention Game Used Forum thread involving a Michael Jordan jersey. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=9946" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=9946</a><br /><br />Read the last thread...so I will now include that to what I <br /><br />Bill Daniels situation...Shill Bidding accusations...The PSA/DNA and Ruth item mentioned here...Michael Jordan College jersey. What else? <br /><br />As far as Bruce goes...seriously, exit this Forum for good. You can't open your mouth without saying something that will offend and "WE" all disagree with. <br /><br />DJ

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Posted By: <b>joebrennan</b><p>"I will quote Comte de Lautreamont: "Poetry must be made by all and not by one." <br /><br />There are more poets than people that read poetry. <br /><br />There are more personalities than 1 in the Dorkskin group. <br><br>In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>Believe it or not, there are those who are turned off by the "class warfare" that goes on here. I guess I know b/c I am one of them. I went from making nice money in the insurance business to being disabled in no time at all it seems. My monthly income now is just enough to cover the bills and pay for my double wide (which was recently made fun of by the forum owner here). I don't live in a 6000 square foot home, nor refer to myself in the plural. However, I love this Hobby just as much, if not more, than people who look down on the "armpit" collectors like myself.<br /><br />I don't think I will ever understand why some Hobbyists will turn the other way when it comes to Mastro and what goes on at their Empire, nor attack Jim Crandell when he wanted to take action and try to clean this Hobby up. I do know there is a small group of collectors, including myself, who really care about this Great Hobby and can put aside our differences to, at the very least, try and expose these auction houses and other individuals who do wrong. Happy Collecting!

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>If you say one more peep about me, or make a reference towards me, you will be banned forever from this forum.....Period....

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>And here I thought you were allowed to post anything as long as it was true and you put your name to it. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>"I am the son of a man and a woman, from I have been told. This astonishes me. I thought I was something more."<br /><br />For what it's worth, that's my favorite quote from from Comte de Lautreamont, a 19th century French speaking Uruguayan writer who and is considered the first surrealist due to his iconic book Les Chants de Maldoror. Maldoror is something of a monster, sort of a damned figure, and he is the narrator. The book is heavy, written as a collage and considered corrosive even by today's social standards. What's interesting is that it was written by a apparently normal, about 22 year old college student who died soon after. The book was not discovered and published until years after he had died.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>David, lol. Great line. I've never heard of the guy. But then again, my reading is pretty much limited so sci-fi and fantasy and books by H P Lovecraft.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Paul, i am the Shelly Jaffe who was Eddie and I am the same Shelly Jaffe that found UDA selling a $85000 card that was phony. I don't know who you are but I never hid who I am. What I said here is true. If you have problem with what I did that is fine but if you have a problem with what i said here I feel sorry for you. I am a bad guy I did every thing that was said about me but I have the balls to admit it. Where are yours when it come to what is taking place today not yesterday. You want to talk about me that is fine. Leon knows about me and trusts that what I say is fact not fiction. I know more about what went on this hobby than you ever will. If you doubt what I am saying ask the big boys. Heitman, Hughes, Mastro, Spence and the list goes on. I just want the bull s-it to stop. If you have problem with that then so be it. There is no one on this site that didn't know who I was. I also find it surprising that you didn't read that I said I went to jail for what I did. I am a person who made a mistake and people are now asking for my help to make sure it doesn't happen to other people. If you have a problem with that, I guess you don't really care who cheats, who lies or who steals. Oh and by the way every peron that bought from me was paid back and if you have the nerve call Tim Fitzsimmons at the San Diego FBI and ask him what he thinks about me.1-858-565-1255. Now if you have anymore questions please list them.