Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

Imagine you are in a Time Machine that transports you back to the Spring of 1933. Kids and older collectors were very excited with the new Goudey Gum cards.
You could get colorful cards of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jimmy Foxx, Dizzy Dean, etc. But, trying to put together a set of these cards became quite frustrating
because certain lower numbered cards were not available. By the end of the Summer of 1933 you diligently put together a set of 191 different subjects. Plus,
tons of duplicates as the result of spending lots of pennies trying to acquire the missing lower # cards (precisely 22 cards). In September Goudey issued their
9th sheet of cards (#s 214 - 231, and 97, 98, 99, 128, 129, 142). Finally, six of the mysterious lower numbered cards were available. So, 16 more to go.

That brings us to the World Series sheet. The 10th sheet was printed in mid October, the cards were issued in November 1933. The bios on the backs of them
reflect the 1933 World Series between the NY Giants and Washington. From my set, I have arranged these cards to exactly simulate this 24-card sheet..........


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...08x109xx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...11x112xx13.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...14x121xx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...23x124xx12.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...26x127xx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...33x234xx13.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...36x237xx12.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...39x240xx12.jpg


This diagram of the 10th sheet tells the story when the remaining 15 (of the 16) mysterious lower numbered cards where finally issued.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...arrange75x.jpg


And, of course #106 (Lajoie) was issued in the Summer of 1934 to finally complete this 240-card set.

T'was a clever marketing trick that Goudey played in order to sell a lot of cards in 1933......but, it was also a "mean" trick on the collectors.

This Show-n-Tell will hopefully spark some interesting discussion regarding this great Goudey set. Show us some your "oldies-but-goodies" Goudey's.


TED Z
.

This is great Ted! Fun read and a nice little Goudey history lesson for me.

Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

1934 GOUDEY Hi #s (#73 - 96) sheet which includes the #106 Lajoie card.....printed and issued circa Summer 1934.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rdsheet25x.jpg


TED Z
.

I always liked the look of most of the artwork of the 1933 Goudey cards without the red advertising bar at the bottom, like the cards in the re-creation of the World Series sheet shown by Ted. For such a large set the 1933 Goudey were surprisingly error-free (the only change to the set that I know occurred with card #6 Dykes, which has his age corrected on the back bio write-up).

But they did make a change which makes the set not quite as consistent stylistically as, for example, the Cracker Jack sets. I always wondered what the reason was to drop the red bar, which occurred prior to the issuance of the World Series cards. I personally like both versions, but I can see where some collectors might wince at the difference.

Brian

Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

This pose of Rogers Hornsby is one of my favorite cards in this Goudey set.
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...33ghornsby.jpg
Gee guys, am I the only one on this forum with 1933 Goudeys ?

I don't think so, so let us see some of your favorite cards.


TED Z
.

More Great Stuff, Ted!

Very Much Appreciated!


Here's the Goudeys I have scans of:

Attachment 248554

Attachment 248555

Attachment 248556

Attachment 248557

Attachment 248558

Attachment 248559

Attachment 248560

33's
 

Hi Ted, I love the 33's. It is difficult to pick a favorite because they are all so interesting. I have about 20 lower grade commons. At one time I was putting the set together and I was up to 108. I sold them and I wish I still had them.

Thank you for the interesting history lesson.

Rick

I need more Goudeys....

http://luckeycards.com/pr319ruth2a.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand (divided by approximately 8) cards. Slice and Dice 'em, which gets rid of that red advertising bar at bottom, then Rack and Stack 'em for a little artistic flair. A few 1934 cards thrown in as ballast.

Brian

Outline outliers
 

Examples of my least favorite 1933 Goudey cards are the ones that include heavy, dark outlining around the player's image. Examples of this would be the Walberg, Farrell and to a lesser degree Mahaffey as seen in Rick's scan of his Goudey cards. They have always thrown my eye off. I guess not all cards within the set can be perfect.

Brian

Thanks for the timeline info, Ted. Neat to read!

I pick up a cheap Goudey every so often ...

Hey Brian

Have you ever come across any of the cards from this set's first 7 sheets that have the Big League strip cut off ?

I had a bunch of them [including Ruth (#144)]. I sold most of these cut cards, but I may still have one (or two)
hidden in my archives box. If I find them, I will post them.


TED Z
.

33 Goudeys
 

Here's a few that I've owned:

Ted...I sold most of the stack as seen in my previous post, but did keep these 9 cards. The first four would have had the red advertising bar on the bottom, while the second group of five were issued without that bar. Evidently the original collector of these cut them all to be a consistent size.

Note the outline around Durocher's noggin, the Ott with green background, and the Berg...examples (in my opinion) of the detracting artwork choices seen in some of the 33 Goudey cards. I always liked, however, that dynamic Berg background.

Brian

Only have a handful and none better than VG but I have an affinity for this one that apparently some kid used as a tally sheet for something.

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/...psc7hx4b2o.jpg

I have always wondered if perhaps the success of Goudey's tricks with skip numbering and no card #106 at all didn't perhaps poison the well for them with collectors going forward. Did selling lots of cards in 33 come at the expense of kids/collectors with a sour taste in their mouth towards them in later years?

This card would surely be a PWCC (HE) and sell for double the SMR like they have recently been doing.

I'm about 80% complete with my set needing 46 cards. Here are a couple of my favorites:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...an%201_18.jpeg

Very interesting post, Ted, and great thread. Thanks for the education. Didn't realize that they distributed cards as late as November. By then baseball would have been in hibernation for at least a month. The '33 Goudeys were one of the first sets I threw together when I took up vintage card collecting a few years back. The cards appealed to me because they depicted many of the players who by the time I was a kid in the 'fifties were the coaches and managers of the day and many others were still household names. I can even lay claim to having seen several of them play if only as "old-timers" at a game in 1959.
I assembled "collector grade" sets of both the '33s and '34s, cracked some slabs and put them into nifty Roop binders. Because I am a bit OC I wasn't going to have a puka in the 106 slot so I found myself a beaterish-verging-on-roadkill Lajoie to get the job done. It's a joy to lay a book of Goudeys on my lap and peruse the pages. The '33s can be seen, quick'n'dirty style, at this link: http://tinyurl.com/jogydhy

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...G%20Lajoie.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...ize/33G035.jpg

I'm so old I saw Wally Pipp play. No lie.
http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...0Boxscore2.jpg

No need to turn the card over to see what number it is. Too bad.
I wonder if this collector did the same to his other Goudeys.

Aside from that mark, that card is in amazing shape for the first card in the set, noting the extensive wear first cards normally are subjected to.

Great cards, guys. Kawika, having seen Pipp play does date you a little. But at least you never saw Home Run Baker in the field!

33g
 

Great info Ted

I always wondered why it took show long to find those #s' in finishing my beat up set

Baker was in the line-up that day. Can't remember with absolute certainty if he played or not. It was 59 years ago and my memory has a lot of mileage on it. I was more excited by the Rifleman playing than anyone else.

Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

Hey Guys

Shown here is my real life connection with this Goudey set.

Frank O'Rourke coached our High School BB team (Elizabeth, NJ) during the 1950's.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkORourkeX.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nkORourkeB.jpg


I was a Left Fielder (or Right Fielder) because I had a great glove, and had a strong and accurate arm. My hitting, at best, was intermittent.


TED Z
.

At 5'6", I always thought it would be fun to watch Hack Wilson play.

Ted, In 1947 the Oakland Oaks of the Pacific Coast League spring trained in San Fernando, Ca.. Casey Stengal was their manager and Babe Herman was probably the hitting coach. I will always remember shaking hands with Herman because his hand was bigger than my 1st Baseman's glove.

Ray, When I bought Bengough it was in a SGC holder with no grade just "authentic". I sent it to PSA they graded it and applied the qualifier.

Works of Art

Thanks, David

The final game of the 1933 WS was Oct 7th. It's my understanding that Goudey designed and printed these 24 cards in two weeks.
So, they may have initially issued these cards as early as late October. But, Goudey did continue issuing them well into November.

Consider the following....in the post-WWII era, we are accustomed to seeing BB cards disappearing by late September and gone by
October because the Gum Co. are issuing their Football cards. This certainly was not the case with Goudey Gum in 1933.


TED Z
.

Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

I've always wondered what the 106 Leo Durocher was all about. Haven't even seen a picture of it in years. Heard theory is it was a proof of what was supposed to go to market before the Lajoie scheme was cooked up. Any other theories or awareness if this thing is circulated or in a vault ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

33g
 

ted

how about Eliz bb - lenny green

The Leo Durocher #106 card is not a "proof" card.

I closely examined this card in 1981, while visiting with George Moll at his home in Holland, PA. He handed me two Durocher cards from his 1933 Goudey
set (George Moll's favorite set). One card had #147 on it, and the other card had #106 on it.

1st for some history...... the George Moll Advertising Agency (Philadelphia) was the force behind all the Play Ball and Bowman Sports & Non-Sports cards
issued by the Bowman Gum Co. (1938 - 1955). Moll employed 12 professional artists who designed all the cards.

In 1938, George Moll convinced Warren Bowman that he should market his popular Bubble Gum product with trading cards. And that led to "the start of a
beautiful friendship".

If I recall correctly, it's my understanding that his Agency produced this Durocher card as a space-filler for Goudey collectors who didn't have a #106 card.


TED Z
.

Great info Ted. That Durocher card has always been a huge mystery within the hobby, and it is surprising that its notoriety pales in comparison to the Lajoie card.

One of the aspects of the 1933 Goudey issue that I think is worth noting is that quality control (or perhaps it can be attributed to more restricted access to production errors) seems to have been much tighter compared to the T206 set. Almost all the cards available are reasonably in register, not missing color passes and not miscut. Cards with printing issues are really hard to come by. Below is one of the few that I have noticed. I imagine there are plenty of others out there, but certainly nowhere near the percentage level of the T206 set.

Brian

Brian....thanks for posting your Lefty O'Doul card.

I completely agree with your observation here. Since 1982, I have completed two 1933 Goudey sets; and, I seldom have come across flawed printing in these cards.

Lefty O'Doul is another one of my favorite 1933 Goudey cards. First series card as a Dodger, and his World Series card (post #1) depicts him as a NY Giants player.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eyODoulx50.jpg



TED Z
.

1933 Goudey BB wrapper

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...leftygrove.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...1933goudey.jpg

TED Z
.

I don't have it yet, but I was finally able to add a Ruth #181 to my collection in a nice, displayable condition, for a budget minded collector. It has a pin hole in it but is otherwise quite nice. It will go well with my pin-holed 34 Goudey Gehrig! Probably the only way I'd be willing to afford either.

I have always been fascinated by this card since I was first introduced to it, probably by a TCMA, Pacific Trading Cards or Renata Galasso catlog.

Ted -

You are constantly amazing me with your vast knowledge and experience.

What great stories!!

I consider myself lucky as heck to be here to enjoy it all.

Thank You, Sir - for sharing!

-Raymond

Hey Raymond

I'll try to continue amazing you....so, stay tuned to my future posts :)

Anyway, I really appreciate your very complimentary words.


TED Z
.

Ruth vs Root

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...RuthxRootx.jpg


October 1, 1932....Wrigley Field was the setting of one of the most talked about scenarios in the history of Baseball......Ruth's called HR.

He drove the ball approx. 470 feet into the centerfield seats. It was his 15th (and last) World Series HR.

Other notable events occurred in this 3rd game between the Yankees and the Cubs.....I'll leave it up to you guys to chime in with them ?


TED Z
.

Augtographed 1933 Goudeys
 

Some of the finest condition signed 1933 Goudeys ever offered are now available on the Heritage auction that just opened.

Trivia Quiz......
 

What is the unique connection between this Jack Quinn Goudey card and his T206 card ?
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...06quinn33g.jpg
TED Z
.

I don't have scans of my Goudeys on hand, but let me come out in favor of the ones with the red bar at the bottom. I like cards that reflect their time period, and for whatever reason the advertising on the Goudeys seems very appropriate for the 1930s to me.

Out of curiosity, does anybody know what happened to the original art for the Goudeys? That would be something.

Well, since no one has chimed in with responses to my questions here, I will.......

Ruth's dramatic called HR overshadowed his earlier HR (good for 3 RBI's), and....

Lou Gehrig, also hit 2 HR's in this game, the 2nd of which was hit on Root's next pitch following Ruth's tremendous HR.

As famed sportscaster, Mel Allen, would enthusiastically say...." How about that ! "


TED Z
.

That Quinn is the only player appearing in both sets, who was active when both sets were issued?

I also want to express my thanks to you Ted, for continuing to share your knowledge with us. It's one of the big reasons I love this site!

Steve

Only guy to appear in both sets?

Two of my favorites from the set...

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t...psudclqfdi.jpghttp://i606.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps4phmo0qc.jpg

The Gehringer card is an absolute work of art! But is there any particular reason why so many of the cards have no team emblem on either the cap or the uniform? I never understood why the Gehringer, for example, depicts him in a plain white uniform. It's not like he was just traded or anything. While with others, like the Quinn, there seems to have been great effort to get the "Brooklyn" lettering just right.

Did Norman Rockwell do the art work on this one? One of my favorites.

Hi Steve

Correcto !

Jack Quinn enjoyed a long pitching career.... 1909 - 1933 (W-L 247-218).


Thanks for the kind words.

TED Z
.

Incidentally, the other 3 subjects that were in the T206 set and the 1933 Goudey set are......

Eddie Collins
Napoleon Lajoie
Tris Speaker


Their Major League careers were ended prior to their appearance in this Goudey set.


TED Z
.

Mike I sat through a wonderful SABR presentation in August by Jim Yeager on Dib Williams and his father who taught a baseball school in Greenbriar, Arkansas.

Jim handed out replicas of the Williams card and showed a wonderful photo from which the card image was taken. Williams was actually a nice looking fellow and this is very much a caricature of the facial expression by Dib with a large chaw in his mouth.

It will always be one of my favorites.

I just started working on this set this year have always loved it.

Thanks Mike for the insight on Dib and his father.

Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

Fascinating stuff! Can barely fathom what it should be worth if one actually hit the market again. I bet it would still be undervalued if compared to Lajoie for rareness. Which is a bit of a bummer as it's part of the same legend as the Lajoie. Thanks for Intel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Bryan

There appears to be less Durocher (#106) cards available than there are Lajoie (#106) cards. However, the Lajoie card's story has been "hyped" for decades.
Therefore, this Durocher card's value (plus lower demand) will never approach any considerably high $$$$ value.

Glad to share my Durocher story with you....and, the members of this great forum.


TED Z
.

The Jablonowski card in my set has the official Copyright stamp on the back of this card.
Does anyone else on this forum have Goudey's with the Copyright stamp on them ?

If so, how's about posting them here.
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...goughcritz.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ablonowski.jpg
TED Z
.

Interesting Ted, not sure I would have recognized the markings for what they are if I had seen one in the past. So, based on the copyright date, the card would have been released in a series after the date correct? May be an overly simple question, but not being familiar with the process just looking for confirmation as it seems late in the year to be getting the cards copyrighted.

Besides a signed raw Paul Richards card this is my only other 33 Goudey:

http://zwsmith.weebly.com/uploads/2/...45/5019718.jpg


If anyone comes across a lower, left corner let me know.

Hi Bill

The Jablonowski card was printed on the 4th sheet of the 1933 Goudey set. The cards were issued circa Spring/early Summer 1933.

Most likely that is when these cards were also submitted to the Copyright department. It's my understanding that typically 2 months
transpired until the Copyright registration occurred.

Hopefully, more of these Goudey cards with the Copyright info will be posted here, so we can get a better idea regarding this subject.


TED Z
.

There was a large group that sold in a REA lot.

Here's six from that lot.
Attachment 249589
Attachment 249590

And an informative thread that King started about them.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=81615

Here's a scan of one of the cards with a patent registration card.
Attachment 249597

And a really neat article that was in SMR about the guy who assembled a
large collection of these.
http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...-auction-block

Thanks Pat for posting these 6 cards having the Copyright stamp on their backs.


Copyright dates on these 6 cards appear to confirm the 2-month period (noted in Post #58)
between when these cards were issued and the Copyright registration date.

Dickey printed on the 1st sheet, issued in Mar 1933.

Collins printed on the 3rd sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Cronin printed on the 3rd sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Maranville printed on the 5th sheet, issued in Apr 1933.

Gehringer printed on the 9th sheet, issued in Aug 1933.

Ott printed on the 10th sheet, issued in Nov 1933.


TED Z
.

Ted,
As king pointed out in the archive thread wouldn't the "date of publication"
be when the cards were issued?
Attachment 249609

With all due respect, I have to disagree with cmoking. King and I go back 10+ years ago when we did some nice cash/trade deals.

1st......the source(s) of my information regarding issue dates of the 10 (24-card sheets) 1933Goudey series are George Moll (ref. post #31); and,
Bob K (a neighbor who was avid collector of Goudey's). They collected these cards in their younger days, and we talked about this subject in 1981
when I visited with them.

2nd.....For example, check out the Mel Ott card you posted. It's Copyright date is Jan 23, 1934. No way, that the 10th sheet (World Series) cards
were issued that late.
As I stated in the 2nd paragraph (post #1) these cards were issued Nov 1933. This is a well known and confirmed fact.


TED Z
.

Ted,
It's my understanding that the dates stamped on the backs of the card(s)
is when the Library of congress received them.
Attachment 249630
Attachment 249631

and the "date of publication" is the date that Goudey gave as the issue date
when they sent them for the copyrights.
Attachment 249632

Pat

...... "the date that Goudey gave as the issue date when they sent them for the copyrights"......

doesn't in any way coincide with the actual date when these cards were printed and issued to the public market.
For whatever reasons, there was a delay by Goudey in submitted these cards to the Copyright Office.

As I have already stated.....the actual dates of the various series in this set is well known and a confirmed fact.
This has been documented by several long-time hobbyist (including Lew Lipset).

So, I really don't understand why you are missing this point ?


TED Z
.

Cards on the 6th sheet of the 1933 Goudey set were issued circa Summer of '33. This fabulous sheet includes double-printed cards of Babe Ruth (#144).
Plus....Babe Ruth (card #149), Lou Gehrig (card #160), Jimmy Foxx (card #154), Leo Durocher (card #147), and the mysterious Moe Berg (card #158).

Does a series of vintage BB cards printed on one sheet get any better than this ?

I DON"T THINK SO !



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...x2sheet50x.jpg



TED Z
.

1933 Goudey's
 

Some more of my favorites from this great set. Show us your favorites.


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/



TED Z
.

Absolutely agree on logic, but would still guess a Durocher 106 might go for 5-10k. Although it's way south of Lajoie , it should still surpass the yellow Ruth . I could be far off base , but that's my wild guess.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Beautiful card, Leon.

Baseball records "come-n-go......but, one still standing is Hack Wilson's single-season RBI record.

The 1930 season was magical for him...... BA= .356....HR= 56....RBI= 191


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...HackWilson.jpg



TED Z
.

Mystery's of the 1933 Goudey set....and, show us your Goudey's
 

Tough finding in reasonably nice condition...... #1 and #240.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Schumacher.jpg



Hey guys, let us see some more of your Goudey's.


TED Z
.

Longevity
 

Jack Quinn was a Major League pitcher for 23 continuous seasons (1909 - 1933). He owns several longevity records. For example,
Jack is the oldest pitcher to ever start a World Series game at age 46 in 1929 for the A's.

Furthermore, Jack Quinn is the only active Major Leaguer featured in the T206 set and the 1933 Goudey set (check-out post #40).


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...nnCrosetti.jpg


Frank Crosetti was involved in 23 - World Series as a Player and a Coach with the NY Yankees (37 - Major League seasons).
Crosetti's amazing record of 17 - World Series Championship Rings will probably never be surpassed.


TED Z
.

1933 Goudey
 

Two Texans who could hit for high averages.


Tris Speaker's career BA = .345

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...kerHornsby.jpg

Rogers Hornsby's career BA = .358

Plus, his BA = .424 for the 1924 season may never be surpassed.


TED Z
.

I've always liked Schumachers card, looks like he has a lot on his mind. And why not throw one in of the Mickey before Mickey.

-

I completely agree with your observation here. Since 1982, I have completed two 1933 Goudey sets; and, I seldom have come across flawed printing in these cards.

Lefty O'Doul is another one of my favorite 1933 Goudey cards. First series card as a Dodger, and his World Series card (post #1) depicts him as a NY Giants player.
There is a very interesting Goudey Ruth #181 misprint in the current LOTG auction. Surprized it made it out of quality control, given the tough standards Goudey imposed. Perhaps considering who the player was somebody in the sheet cutting room pocketed it before the card could be given a final rejection.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eyODoulx50.jpg



TED Z
.[/QUOTE]

I have not seen another Goudey with print issues like the Ruth, anyone else seen any?

Hey Bill

As I'm sure you know, (but for those who don't)....Mickey Mantle was named after Mickey Cochrane, who was the favorite ballplayer of Mantle's Dad.


TED Z
.

There is a very interesting #181 SGC 20 Ruth in the For Love of the Game current auction; it is clearly misprinted and must have somehow been missed by the hawk-eyed quality control inspectors at the Goudey print plant. As others have clearly stated, the quality control standards at Goudey were vastly superior to early 20th century tobacco issuers. I have handled a lot of Goudeys over the years and have never seen one exactly like it, let alone on a Ruth specimen.

Two very interesting ballplayers. One whose fame was on the playing field and another whose fame was off the playing field.

Charles Gehringer is rated as one of the all-around greatest 2nd Baseman.

Moe Berg had an unbelievable life. I highly recommend reading his SABR bio...... http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/e1e65b3b



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ringerBerg.jpg



Hey guys,
Are there any more Goudey's out there to be displayed here ?


TED Z
.