Brady Suspension Overturned
 

The judge has ruled in favor of Tom Brady.

So much for that silliness.

Maybe he "Blew" up the judge ehhhh ;)

In my morning grog I thought this thread was started by Richard Serman and almost choked on my coffee.

Lesson to children, this just proves cheating does win.

Keep cheating Tom. Good example for your children.

is every lineman who gets away with an illegal hold a cheater?

Brady
 

Really?

Good thing he cheated......Indianapolis would have REALLY been blown out since they scored less points in the first half with deflated balls...............

#1

Our legal system isn't perfect but Goodell is far from ethical and there was no proof Brady cheated....this from a Bills fan

This whole saga has reminded me of the scene from Band of Brothers where Sobel tried to court-martial Winters because Winters was 15 minutes late to an inspection that he didn't know the time had been moved (from 10 AM to 9:45). Long story short, Sobel lost his company command and was transferred out of the division, Winters went on to receive several medals, and West Point still studies one of his attacks today, 70 years after the fact.

Knowingly altering the equipment to give yourself an advantage is cheating. That is much different than a lineman being called for a hold on a single play. If you think there's no proof, remember that Brady is the man who holds the football every play he's on the field for.

Did a single referee notice any difference in the game balls that supposedly had been altered to give an advantage? They handle them on every play too.

Oh it's the refs fault Tom cheated. Come on, the texts between him and the equipment manager leave no doubt:

BRADY: "You good Jonny boy?"

"You doing good?"

JASTREMSKI: "Still nervous; so far so good though"

BRADY: "FYI...Dave (Patriots head equipment manager Dave Schoenfeld) will be picking your brain later about it. He's not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it's unrealistic you did it yourself..."


Not to mention the guy destroyed his phone 4 months into an investigation at the precise moment he was asked for his phone.

The judge did not exonerate Brady, rather he admonished the nfl's poor use of discipline not even in keeping with its wide authority under the cba. Brady's legacy was still greatly tarnished in the public and he was put through the legal wringer, I'd say "getting away with it" was less fun than one would imagine.

Ok, from a NY Giants fan. If you can't handle your team not winning or simply don't like the Patriots go ahead and continue with these ridiculous comments about how big a deal it was to deflate the footballs.

Did any of you ever look at the list of teams fined for cheating in 2015? How about the many past Super Bowl winners with players fined or suspended for using PED's? How about the Steelers teams from the 70's? I think that any person who's willing to think about this rationally without any bias or jealousy realizes that this was not that big deal.

Do you really believe that there's not a single player on the team you root for who doesn't cheat?

I get it, you're jealous of Tom Brady and the Patriots. Please stop embarrassing yourselves acting like if this happened to your favorite team you would feel the same way.

Dan exactly. It's an equipment violation, so de minimis that no referee even noticed any difference in the balls. Spare me the BS about the integrity of the game.

If a player corked their bat you'd be saying they cheated. How is this any different? It's not integrity of the game, it's the integrity of an individual that is at issue. This guy should face consequences for what he did. No one is asking for his head, but it perfectly reasonable that he should be forced to sit out games.

+1

Awesome

Corked bat is objectively an advantage, no? Inflation or deflation is just a personal preference, as was clear from some QBs preferring them on the high side. And this was so trivial nobody even noticed.

Whose balls are deflated now?

Now that's funny

The people who proclaim Brady a cheater are just bitter.

Unfortunately, Brady's name has been smeared, and people will believe conjecture instead of fact.

The fact that the Patriots have 15 years of solid, winning football has created a jealousy from fans around the country.

Corked bats are more detrimental than helpful. Corking a bat actually causes the ball to travel less distance compared to a solid whole bat. You lose that complete solid core with hollowing a bat. And yes, there is scientific research backing this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree - all forms of cheating should be allowed in the NFL, regardless of what it is. But then again, if my girlfriend asks me for a glass of apple juice, I give her orange juice and she has the nerve to complain.

Good for Brady.

Justice is served.

This BS has gone far enough.

Yeah what Brady did is a big deal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4419573.html

The only thing I find objectionable is that Roger Goodell is still the commissioner of the NFL.

+1.

Has he done anything right? I mean seriously.

He's made the owners hundreds of millions of dollars on his watch.
To his bosses (the owners) that's all that counts.

Every time I watch him purse his lips and utter ridiculous platitudes about whatever the issue is, I throw up in my mouth a little bit. I absolutely despise him, even beyond Selig, which is saying a lot. But, as Jay mentioned, he is evidently making the owners money and that's where the rubber meets the road.

If all I knew was their behavior, and wasn't a big sports fan, I would get the two of them mixed up - Goodell has a one point advantage for being able to bullshit better in big settings. Basketball, as sorry as it is as a sport, at least has a decent commissioner.

Yeah Silver seems like a pretty decent guy. I could be wrong though. Kind of reminds me of the old quote, attributed to Groucho Marx among various others: "Sincerity is everything. Once you learn to fake that, the world is your oyster." I guess time will tell.

that is what is wrong with society. When did cheating become okay? Guess it is okay if you win but not okay if you get caught or lose.

I believe he should at least be fined and maybe suspended two games or both, but not four...that's way excessive IMO. And I don't believe the people that are calling for a suspension, etc., are bitter, but rather just looking for some sort of punishment for Brady for doing something he shouldn't have. If Goodell would bring it down a notch, he could have disciplined Brady without trying to overdo it and be some sort of mighty dictator. I'm glad however, that the judge overtuned the initial ruling and called out Goodell in the process.

Coming to a theater near you...

If inflation or deflation is just a personal preference then why did the league set a rule that mandated the pressure of the football? The guy broke a rule. If you don't want to call it cheating, fine. But we should be able to agree what he did was in violation of league rules and a suspension seems fair to me.

I will say it AGAIN, what rule was he PROVEN to break?? This is the opportune word here: PROVEN in my opinion. The good thing is that here is the US, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty (lawyers chime in please :D)

Even if he did something, of which I've seen no real proof, the league mandate for altering equipment is a fine, not suspension. If you choose to ignore basic facts, well ...... there's no law against jealously and envy of Brady's and the Patriots' success.

The real travesty here is the Goodell kangaroo court and the NFL's overreach. The judge obviously agreed to the extent of overturning a finding originally held within the framework of a CBA, which I understand they are normally very reluctant to do.

Well the balls were all underinflated on the Patriots side, so isn't that proof that they were deflated?

Equipment managers trade texts between each other talking about Tom's preferred deflation and either deflating or inflating the balls to his liking. Isn't that proof?

Four months into an investigation Tom Brady destroys his cell phone at the precise time that he is asked to turn it over. You can call that circumstantial, but if there's smoke there's fire.

Actually, it wasn't ALL of the footballs, only 11 of 12 :D And some of the Colts were as well.

And if I was married to Giselle Bundchen I assure you I wouldn't turn my cell phone over either :D

In the end, Roger Goodell is a joke of a commissioner, IMHO.

No. First, hindsight showed that there was no reliable measurement metric. Second, Brady had been informed by Wells that there was no need for his phone in the investigation. Relevant transcripts were apparently provided. Who knows what sorts of information were on the phone that Brady wouldn't have wanted divulged to the TMZs of the world. Once again, feel free to ignore relevant facts. Fortunately for the sake of basic fairness, the judge did not.

Right I always just decide to destroy my phone out of the blue when the court comes asking for it and the media has done nothing but talk about the damning texts that might be on it should it be turned over to the court.

How do you explain the equipment managers discussing their manipulation of the footballs to Tom's liking? Were they lying? Was that part of an elaborate set up months in the making for the championship game?

He was given his day in court and found guilty. You can choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that he was proven guilty.

Numerous quarterbacks have come out and said that there is no doubt in their minds that he was involved. Yesterday, it was Fran Tarkenton. QBs are the ones who dictate how the balls are prepared. I guess you think that Brady is unique and has nothing to do with how the Pats prepare their balls. If that was the case, then why did he lobby the NFL to change the rule allowing visiting teams to prepare their own balls?

I'll say it again, he was never PROVEN guilty, it was stated he was guilty. HUGE difference!!

Huge difference when you want there to be one. No difference at all when someone is sentenced to jail time for something they didn't do.

My kind of restaurant: http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/stor...-berman-090315

In what court would that be where he was proven guilty? Unless you're speaking of the NFL kangaroo court, I have no idea what you're talking about. And that "court" offered no real proof. They believed him to be "generally aware" that something was going on. By that squishy criterion, you should be criminally liable when you are "generally aware" that illegal drugs are being sold on your the block.

Goodell has had his rulings overturned regarding Rice, Peterson and now Brady. I agree with the "overreach" in the first two rulings, but I think it's perfectly within the NFL's rights to make decisions like the one regarding Brady. They might have screwed it up, but I think if you are going to let the courts pop in to overrule things that are related ONLY to the sport that the commissioner is responsible for (which the Rice and Peterson things were not), then you've opened the doors for all sorts of things;i.e-any time ANY fine or punishment is imposed in ANY sport, we're off to court. If a commissioner can't do his job, just get rid of him.

That is your OPINION, not fact. HUGE difference.

What you "think" is "perfectly within the NFL's rights" does not reflect the legal standard of review of the Commissioner's decision, as properly articulated by the court.

Under the Federal Arbitration Act ("FAA''), "the validity of an award is subject to attack
only on those grounds listed in [9 U.S.C.] § 10, and the policy of the FAA requires that an award
be enforced unless one of those grounds is affirmatively shown to exist." Wall Street Assocs.
L.P. v. Becker Pari bas Inc., 27 F .3d 845, 849 (2d Cir. 1994). For example, FAA § I 0 provides
that the Court may vacate an arbitral award "where the arbitrators were guilty of ... refusing to
hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy." 9 U.S.C. § I O(a)(3). The Court may
also vacate an arbitral award "where there was evident partiality ... " 9 U.S.C. § I O(a)(2).
A "principal question for the reviewing court is whether the arbitrator's award draws its
essence from the collective bargaining agreement, since the arbitrator is not free to merely
dispense his own brand of industrial justice." 187 Concourse Assocs. v. Fishman, 399 F.3d 524,
527 (2d Cir. 2005) (quoting Saint Marv Home, Inc. v. Serv. Emps. Int'l Union, Dist. 1199, 116
F.3d 41,44 (2d Cir. 1997)). "[A]s the proctor of the bar gain, the arbitrator's task is to effectuate
the intent of the parties. His source of authority is the collective-bargaining agreement, and he
must interpret and apply that agreement in accordance with the 'industrial common law of the
shop' and the various needs and desires of the parties." United States v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters,
954 F.2d 801, 809 (2d Cir. 1992) (quoting Alexander v. Gardner-Denver Co., 94 S. Ct. 1011,
1022 (1974)) (emphasis omitted).
It is the "law of the shop" to provide professional football players with advance notice of
prohibited conduct and potential discipline.

The essence of the opinion:

The Court is fully aware of the deference afforded to arbitral decisions, but, nevertheless,
concludes that the Award should be vacated. The Award is premised upon several significant
legal deficiencies, including (A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (fourgame
suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to
examine one of two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General
Counsel JeffPash; and (C) denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness
interview notes.

How do you explain the text messages between equipment manages directly referencing Tom's preference for under inflation? Doesn't that show that he directed the equipment managers to inflate balls to his liking, an inflation that is in violation of league rules?

I feel like we're arguing over whether or not OJ was guilty. It's so obvious what happened. The legal opinion is not as relevant as your eyes and ears.

What? $#@!#%$^#$!????
 

Packs,

I suggest you read legal briefs of Marbury vs Madison, the people vs Larry Flint, and the people vs life savers....

Then you might be more qualified to rule on this than Judge Berman / the other 3 lawyers that have weighed in.

Are you a Jets or Giants fan?

All in good fun...it might be time for you to fold.

cheers,

Patriots season ticket holder

The issue for the court was not whether Brady was guilty or not. It was that the suspension, and the process followed by Goodell, were not consistent with the collective bargaining agreement.

But inevitably, a technical decision like this is going to be completely mischaracterized.

This was my take as well. The suspension was overturned because the penalty applied for this infraction was unprecedented and there was no real evidence in the first place. The judge may well have believed Brady was involved but the NFL did not provide any proof of his involvement.

No, as I just said, evidence or lack of evidence was not the issue. Read the excerpt I quoted summarizing the opinion. This was a technical, procedural decision, having nothing to do with guilt, innocence, or who had proved what.

Fair enough, I actually didn't read the entire thread. Obviously being a lawyer you can interpret the decision better than I can and I'm sure the process the NFL used to reach it's decision was the main reason they were overruled.

I also believe the lack of credible evidence and the fact that similar violations in other cases resulted in little or no punishment for the players involved factored in.

And your basis for that belief is?

..

Thanks Peter for making the legal end of things as clear as possible for those of us who aren't lawyers. We may not like what we hear, but at least there's that bit of translation to something we can understand.

Steve B

Three things:

1. Brady obviously knew the balls were deflated, most reasonable people agree.
2. The ingenuity of purposely deflating the football to gain a competitive advantage should be celebrated, not punished.
3. Every team cheats, most more than the Patriots. www.yourteamcheats.com

The questions the judge asked of the NFL during the hearings lead me to believe that he felt they were important issues and factored into his decision. I don't have any direct quotes, but it seemed to me he disagreed with their reasoning as well as having a problem with the procedural issues.

Most people, in the media and otherwise, understandably are focused on the outcome of a legal case, not the reasoning which sometimes is very narrow and/or technical.

In the end you can only go by the language of the opinion.

I will yield to your legal expertise on this one.

I don't think that your argument holds any water unless text messages to which you refer showed that Brady directed the equipment guys to inflate or deflate the balls beyond the regulation psi range? It's a far cry from having a preference, which most quarterbacks probably do have, to directing that something irregular be done to the footballs.

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

delete

Anyone with a reasonable mind knows that they cannot know for sure what Brady did or didn't know.

They weren't fired, just suspended indefinitely without pay. :D

LOL... I'm assuming you're a Yankees fan. Where are the posts about the Yankees cheating (i.e Petitte, Arod, etc.)??

Let's face it, every team is cheating, some more than others. Cheating has probably been happening since the beginning of each sport. We accept it when our team wins and are critical of it when our team loses, especially to a team we hate (i.e. Patriots).

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Nail meet hammer, right on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

It was the same with the 1919 Black Sox. They went to court, won, were all smiles....then Landis dropped the bomb on them.

Brady got the bomb dropped on him by the commissioner before court, then had the commissioner overruled when it went to court.

Thanks, Peter, for sharing the details as to why this happened. Since Goodell was wrist-slapped by the courts for technical failings in his process, it seems like the next step is for Goodell (or any other commissioner) to simply go to court any time someone steps out of line...since Goodell isn't a court and can't be expected to follow exactly the same procedures when trying to administer disciplinary actions.

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".