PWCC Auction
 

How did everybody do at the PWCC auction last night? I thought prices were pretty impressive, particularly with such a shaky stock market at the moment. Despite many bids, only landed 1 card of note, the E121 Cobb pitching PSA 5.

I missed out on the M101-2 Merkle...by 95 cents. :mad::mad::mad:

Carr AB
 

I got the one card I wanted, Charley Carr AB350 (with FF Baker stamp). Was interested in the T206 lots, but they exceeded my estimates.

I got the e92 Nadja Schmidt. All I am going to say is ouch, that hurt.

DJ

I got a Hughie Jennings Tango Egg but lost out on a ton of others. Seems like bidding was very strong especially for Super Bowl Sunday.

Picked up the 2 cards that I really wanted, the E98 Red Cobb and the '33 WWG Foxx.

A couple cards that stood out was the T206 Red Cobb in PSA 8 going for $35K and the 33 Goudey #149 Babe Ruth PSA 7 that went for just under $45K. The Cobb was really nice but the registration was not spot on to warrant a record price IMO. The Ruth is a beautiful card. Not sure why it only graded a '7'. I guess the PWCC "certified high-end" seems to have a major influence in a lot of peoples mind.

Marquard hands at thighs SGC 20 EPDG......very happy.

Would have loved to get the E107 Dineen (Dinneen), but I knew for the start it would go 10x my current estimated net worth :p

I'm glad some of you got what you wanted,

~Owen:)

Lol, I have that same problem.:)

I picked up a couple DeLongs. Just 5 more needed to finish the set.

Struck out. I bid for the 1933 Goudey Gehrig but the price moved like $1000 in the last 60 seconds. Interesting enough, the 1934 Gehrig price held steady for over an hour and never moved.

Pwcc
 

I bid on and won a T206 Hughie Jennings PSA 3.

I got 1 T205 but I didn't try very hard as I got 9 cards earlier on Saturday in Long Beach and 2 elsewhere online.

Was watching a few closely, but got blown out of the water early on all. Hoping they just regularly strong PWCC prices more so than trends or else I may never get my hands on a couple I really want.

Wasn't interested in this one, but watched it. Clearly a whiff by PSA, and not sure the buyer caught it either... but credit to PWCC for pointing it out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...p2047675.l2557

Honestly, I don't even look at the PWCC offered cards on ebay I simply skim over them since I feel I can get a similar card for only 75% of what it would cost me to buy them thru PWCC. Am I alone in this? Why would I chose to pay more.

I have gotten bargains
 

From pwcc. They do have a good following but occasionally things slip through the cracks like any other auction. Generally though they do get strong prices.

right and you not have to worry about buyers not paying etc when you consign, everyone is saying on this thread that the prices they get are generally strong, some say they they pay 75% elsewhere because PWCC is so strong with prices...seems like a win win for sellers

I am a bit bummed I did not set my snipe higher on the Grove. Those just don't pop up as much in the 2.5-4 grade I am building my set with.

...and it's weird that the two Justins on the board are bidding against each other and building the same set, lol.

From last evening.....who would have guessed this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-A...oAAOSwJb9Wq7xG

Two last second bids and the item more than tripled in value and sold for $350 more than the 3rd highest bid

World record prices all over his auction. Not sure how he does it but i suppose it is real?? ;)
He does get great stuff, will admit
1955 Koufax in PSA 5 i was bidding on went for $731.11 :D

+1 Agreed

High prices
 

Yes, I too was looking at the T206's in particular. Both Cobb reds seemed to have those blurry eyes. But the prices were over what I thought they would go for. Nice to see actual eBay auctions getting great prices - these cards do not go up for eBay auction as often as they used to years ago.

The 1952 Topps Mays cards went way high also, whew!

Keep your good stuff, folks. Wait another 10 years and slam dunk great investments.

Ha, if it makes you feel any better, I didn't get the Grove either...

It's a catch-22. Sellers got tired of seeing their auctions sell for peanuts, so the auctions dried up. When everyone started seeing Probstein and PWCC get record prices, then instead of selling items themselves, they just sent them off to those two. Which gives us the current state of the hobby we are experiencing.

Broke my heart to barely lose out on the DeLong Chuck Klein. Some minor paper loss on the back lead to a very low grade, but the front was a beauty.

I would have loved to bid even higher, but I'm at a tough spot in my life at the moment. Still, fell in love with that card and for a moment thought it was mine. (We've all been there, right?)

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Cobb green
 

That PSA 5.5 Cobb Green that went crazy few months ago - doesn't seem so crazy now.

Anyone get a feel for SGC vs. PSA? Did SGC's go well or are they still a big lag behind PSA?

Big lag.

yeah there is huge price ranges on the rosen but 250-350 is the range without those 2 over market bidders..

even in 1954 topps high grade cards there were big prices..

SGCs lagging behind except for key cards in mid grade ...like psa 5 mickey mantles 1952s would be much closer in terms of percent difference versus a PsA 8


a centered PSA 4 green cobb just went for 4500 on ebay auction..super super centered..but PSA 5 is a whole different animal than a PSA 4 where the multiplier of value can occur...and 5.5 even more I guess...so not so crazy on that purchase you referenced

The cards that slip through the cracks in the PWCC auctions are the ones that honest sellers typically consign. Since I don't shill the stuff I consign to PWCC, you can sometimes get a bargain. Hello people!!! Read the other thread and WAKE UP!!

edited to add that some of my consignments did sell for great prices (so there is certainly a PWCC following)...but it's mostly for the PSA or set-building type cards...the obscure stuff (the stuff that I like) does slip through the cracks sometimes. But if a PWCC auction has the words "PSA" in the item description, you might as well expect to pay 20-40% more than the guy who consigned the card after purchasing it on eBay less than three months prior.

Maybe I'm out of touch with what a PSA 4 Cy Young glove shows sells for these days, but the pen marks did not seem to hurt the final price. Crazy.

HONESTLY...it's like noone seems to care about PWCC's history?!?!? Keep wearing those blinders folks...after all cardboard trumps all!

20-40% markup on EVERY card within a 3-month period??? I guess I can just quit my job, win cards on Ebay from normal/other sellers, and just consign with PWCC, sit back and collect 30%??? Sounds good!

Was looking at a 54 Williams #250 that was certified high end and it went for about 2.5-3x a normal PSA 6. 1724!!

I can assure you that someone is doing just that...and likely shilling their auctions to ensure a profit. Keep in mind that PWCC will take at least a 10% cut of that amount, so you can still rake in 10-30% if you are smart. Take a look at some of the items in the last auction and tell me you haven't seen the exact same cards offered before. Just look at VCP images to see. The results may alarm you!

Can you link just a couple for posterity sake?? I don't really follow PWCC.

Pretty strong indeed. It actually recently for $1058 too!! Which also seems really strong for a marked card.

I'm not a big baller, but this weekend, I stopped bidding on a PWCC card because I felt something wasn't right. I was the top bidder until the last day. Then, out of the blue, someone came in and started bumping my bids. I'd increase my bid, and hour or so later, it was bumped again. Happened three times. So, not auto bids I know.

He has 20% bids with the same seller in the past 12 months. With no wins I can see.

It was a low cost card and I bowed out at 20 bucks. But I felt something is wrong when this dude over bids me by 1.50 every couple of hours.

And in the end, he didn't even win. Closed at 27.50.

I know most of you are in it for big bucks. But this stuff also affects us down toward the low end too.

Maybe he was wondering why you kept bumping him?

so it was you!?!?! and yeah! why where you bumping me? ; )

Pete

Just go bang your head against a brick wall. Trust me, it will be less painful! :)

I experience no pain watching many of you get ripped off... But it is certainly head shaking!!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink .

You and I are in total agreement on this one Pete.

This thread reads like the Who's Who on a future list. ;)

yeah but you can give the horse an IV bag..



if you aren't shilling your own auctions with PWCC , and they are getting great prices for you...so obviously there is no shilling there, doesn't that mean that PWCC is doing a good job for those sellers?

actually you have complained they got low prices for you...cant have it both ways

something that is overlooked is when I was buying 1952 topps..and there was one or two cards I wanted with a seller and I don't use a snipe service..many times I would miss the auction..but when there were 15 or so cards with PWCC I usually made time for that auction and also bid on some other cards in that grouping...when there are 70 or so cards of the same year and grade of a set..theres a chance to get more people bidding on cards they might not have otherwise bid on ...sort of like moves that were playing when star wars was playing were being seen because so many people were at the theater they also saw some of the other movies which they probably would never of seen if they didn't see the new star wars...

I don't shill my own auctions with PWCC. Keep up.

neither do I..plus people aren't shlling when its over 30% etc..that's absurd they will want to win their own card back after being up so high..plus when there are 5 unique bidders over the VCP they are all shillers?

cant say every card isn't shilled (like very other auction house out there) but cant say every card is shilled either

also cant say every card that isn't shilled doesn't get a good price...you just said you don't shill your auctions and got bad prices so that's what you are implying..

That's a true statement. My last consignment was a couple of item on July, 2015. My last consignment of anything more than 10 items was in November of 2014. Maybe things have changed since then. The market heated up a little. I'm sure you conspiracy theory people can think of other reasons why they bring insane prices now.

basically you are not a shiller and you consigned to PWCC correct? So wouldn't it be logically there are also other non shiller people like you consigning to PWCC....you cant be the only one..

as for the prices they are what they are..

All i know is I see board members bitching and whining about the whole mastro debacle...which has shown that the "shill" "problem" is alive and well...and widespread throughout the hobby. Board members too lazy to read the threads and do the legwork themselves pleading and moaning for a "list" of suspect shillers and suspect sellers to be made and presented to them.

So to date we have a significant % of existing auction houses ether having admitted in the past to deceptive bidding practices...or caught in the act...some of whom have "vowed" to change their ways.

And we have likely the 2 biggest ebay sellers PWCC and good old Probstein where board members have shown over...and over and over and over... again numerous examples of blatant shilling.

NO...not all auctions are shilled...but a shit ton are. And the problem is there are a lot more buyers of these cards out there who are not privy to this knowledge...who do not frequent this/other boards. So these people are driving prices higher as a secondary affect of the shillers...so it may not appear to be shill bidding...but it is atificial inflation.

Carry on with your blinders on...as it seems many of you don't seem to mind overpaying for your cardboard. Just don't bitch about it...you have the proof...you only have yourself to blame!

You are sounding like a character in the Big Short!

Here is a corrupt and rigged system, but right now everyone is getting rich off it. Even the shilled winner ends up with an item whose new de facto value is sky high and prime for flipping.

If shilling remains widespread among the largest sellers, there definitely is a bubble that will pop. The question is how to use that information to your advantage ethically.

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never saw it...is it on netflix? I just got it!

Was just in theaters around Christmas. Was a look back at the housing bubble and its profiteers. Guessing it's out on Netflix by now.

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Boo Hoo!
 

I feel so sorry for all you "Ebay Flippers" out there that weren't able to steal
anything from this month's PWCC auction.

There are other sellers on Ebay (I should know - I'm one of them)....I am guessing other buyers will just focus on other sellers for the 'normal' pricing, and just consign to PWCC for the premium pricing. I'm not smart enough, or care enough to do it myself. I'm sure others can, and do "do it".

I'm not surprised. Again I don't even bother looking at these auctions.

the guy that's buying the 1952 Topps Baritromes is in theory a 'legit' buyer...but you don't see me paying $400 for a psa 2...even with the sales history..

past sales to me don't mean much by just looking at how much it sold for..auction price for BIN matters to me...also...I look for unique bidders at certain price points.....a 2 guy bidding war where the winning price is 50% over the third highest bidders high bid also means nothing to me

the artificial inflation is seen as artificial.... im sure if you are smart enough not to bid on 'shilled' auctions then you are smart enough not to fall for artificial sales history....there are many ways to avoid being a victim.......just saying (and I am not excusing fake bidders and undisclosed shilling/reserve etc)

Hey is a "shit ton" greater than a "butt load"? :p :eek:

Actually, I liked that post. Tell it like it is.

pwcc auctions
 

I was looking at some high end Aaron's. I even put in a couple of very solid bids, er so I thought - won nothing. On the one hand its nice to see the high prices. But on the other hand, the prices seem a little fishy too high. Just my honest gut feeling. I could be wrong. I suppose look and drool all you want, but watch it, don't go too overboard with your bids.

A good test would be to now list a couple cards that went way high on PWCC with the same prices or say, 5 percent less, with BIN to see if anyone bites.

I think that has already been proven. Another posted pointed out along time ago that the sales prices surpassed some of the BIN prices, some by a considerable margin.

This has been discussed though, BINs sometimes are never looked at..its not uncommon for a an auction price to go higher on ebay then a current BIN..sometimes thats actually when the BIN is snapped up, right after an auction goes higher...ive done the same thing....heck with the way the willie mays rookie cards have gone up, im sure even some of Deans cards waterfront property cards like the Mantle/ Mays were even bought up after some auctions took place immediately thereafter

Some people just dont pay the same high money for a card from a direct person versus an auction house and also this applies of BIN versus auction.....man looks like i agree with Bobby on this


its almost like the lower bids (hopefully from unique bidders and non shilled) validate the price.......but you can pretty much buy every BIN right now and put those same cards at auction a week later and be certain to lose more than 20% even before ebay fees..i dont think people will disagree with that......many BINs have been listed for months if not years with impacts the perception of some BINs.

if you win every PWCC auction, and resell with PWCC the next month and you are not shlling, i think you lose far less than if you did that with BINs listed on ebay....but who really knows

not all were overpriced
 

I generally steer clear of the high priced stuff so I don't know what's happening up there, but us little guys can still find decent deals. Based on VCP pics a few of these were purchased recently so whoever tried to flip them didn't do too hot. Here are the five cards I bought from PWCC on Sunday:

I paid $100, VCP $115 ($130, $111, $122, $164)
I paid $76, VCP $101 ($125, $130, $227, $87)
I paid $96, VCP $108 ($76, $127, $119, $124)
I paid $66, VCP $88 ($110, $92, $130, $63)
I paid $60, VCP $80 ($100, $68, $105, $76)

unless you have a kardashian-esque butt..YES...a shit ton is more than a butt-load!

As others have said, this is one of the huge incentives why folks shill: basically to generate a realized price sold, where people (mistakenly) believe that the market for that card is moving higher. You can be a nonpaying bidder for that item, but it will still show up on VCP and in the items sold list on ebay. You can have a BIN at a lower price than the card you just shilled up, and buyers will eat it up.

Saying that, I don't think all of the recent items on this PWCC auction was the result of shilling. (full disclosure: I have consigned with PWCC in the past, but I did not consign anything in their current auction.) Since I collect Ruth and Gehrig cards, those are the cards that I tend to follow most. Recently, a buyer came to me from ebay and asked for a private sale where he purchased a large chunk of the Ruth cards that I had for sale. He told me that he has started to collect the Ruth Master set. I then noticed by his feedback score that he also won something like 2/3 of the Ruth cards that were sold in the current PWCC auction. Therefore, although he is showing a high bid % w/ PWCC, he is legit.

I think in general, the card market is thin. If you have a couple of deep pocketed buyers who are collecting a set at the same time, the prices for those cards will spike. However, often times, when they finish their set (or they lose focus and decide to sell it) then the prices for that set will drop. So sometimes, it's all about being lucky in having the right buyers just at the time that you want to sell your cards.

Ah......but what is greater a metric butt load or imperial butt load?

right I agree its like the stock market...its about timing......there are a lot of non-PWCC sellers on ebay that do a lot of shady things....buy from themselves and then cancel the sale etc......go ahead and try to buy your own card with PWCC and see how it goes, its much easier to have two accounts that you are the buyer and seller I would think...basically, I would worry more about non pwcc accounts more..

heck I bought a 1953 mantle on ebay at auction from a non pwcc seller for about 100 or so less than what I thought it would go for..and then he cancelled the sale and refunded my money...I never had that happen with pwcc where I bought an item and then it was cancelled..

That's where you check out the sellers feedback. A reliable seller would never do such a thing. I sold a card once when Ebay had their glitches where no one could view their auctions. I sold a $1,000 card for around $700 during that time. The winning buyer proceeded to flip the card for the $1,100 just two months later. A reliable seller has no problem losing money.

Anyone that values their time, is NOT looking at BINS. 98% of BINS are sellers trolling for bidiots.

While I agree there are a lot of overpriced BIN's in the 707/Dean's card pricing world, there are actually very many reasonably priced BIN's as well. A little thing called competition has people selling things while they are jockeying each other to be the lowest priced seller. I sell BIN's and mine are nowhere near the stratosphere level.

If you remember not too long ago, a seller sold a George Brett rookie card for WAYYYYY under market value and I got snatched up within minutes. So there are deals to be had.

You can thank Ebay, sniping, and unrealistic expectation of buyers for the lack of auctions on Ebay, which has lead to the overabundance of BIN's on there. Too many sellers losing their shirts, while most of them can't afford to lose anything.

WE NEED TO REMEMBER...AS IT SEEMS MANY HAVE FORGOTTEN...THAT THIS IS A "VINTAGE" BOARD...and many of us...in fact most of us could not give a F&ck about george brett rookie bins...LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES here...take it elsewhere!

Uhhh...why the anger?? We are still talking about cards? Since when did a 1952 Topps Mantle card NOT be a vintage card. Even a George Brett rookie card is 41 years old (I am unsure why I am even defending this, as it what just an example of the deals that can and do still exist under the BIN format).

Your anger is misplaced my friend. Take a deep breath. Relax. It's just cardboard. No matter what year it is!

The front (main) page of the board is generally for Pre-WWII baseball cards. That is what the title says anyway. The closer to that, imo, the less off topic a thread is. But if it's not pre-war II baseball card talk it is technically off topic on the main page. There are other sections for Post war etc.....

"Pricing error, it happens daily"

Disagree. I mostly look at BINs. Just grabbed something a month ago I could easily flip for $750-$1000 profit, if I wanted to.

I disagree as well. And the thread was about PWCC, who sells all kinds of cards, not just T206's. Someone chimed in about the lack of good BIN's, so I just posted an example and got blasted. Business as usual.

i apologize for my overreaction...rough morning.

I am not denying that shilling happens in some PWCC auctions (and Probstein and many random eBay sellers as well). It is obvious from looking at the bid history that there is some shady bidding going on at times.

But I think PWCC gets the prices he does because of how much visibility he has. He has just under 6,000 followers and still starts auctions at 99 cents on a site where auctions have greatly diminished in recent years. Is there any other card seller on eBay with anything close to 6,000 followers?

I have never consigned anything to PWCC, so I don't have an agenda from that standpoint. But he has so many followers because he has amazing stuff in all of his auctions. Almost every time he runs an auction, I see cards that I never even knew existed or rarely see up for auction.

Eddie Sm*th

There are some great bargain BINS (sorry couldn't resist) but they cluster around the cards with high pops, which will be postwar mainstream. Hell I picked up a huge card on my list the other night for what I thought was a great bargain via BIN. If the seller actually ships and the card is as advertised I will be very pleased. I was so surprised to see the price that I actually checked the PSA certification, which I have never done before.

But I digress.

Oddly enough for N54 all sides are a bit right in this one. PWCC and Probstein are shill bidding havens. No doubt of that. Honest consignors are there too. Some of the honestly sold items do fetch great prices because they have strong mailing lists and good advertising and like it or not they do drive eyes to their offerings. At the same time there is as much cheating there as a bazaar in Teheran. The buzzwords really are watch your ass in these auctions. I bid in them as I did in the other bad ones with eyes wide open.

Bobby, next time just replace the words "George Brett rookie card" (or any other vintage or modern card) with "T206 rare back," and you'll be good. ;)

LOL....sounds good......