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Brett
Welcome to the board and I look forward to your next thought provoking thread.
Rawn |
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Originally Posted by bmarlowe1 http://www.net54baseball.com/images/...s/viewpost.gif
Assume that sllding into 3rd base is a serious felony, punishible by a lengthy prison sentence, perhaps even death. The witnesses to the event in question have all died or mysteriously vanished. All we have is the image from the card. JJ is arrested. Should he be convicted based on that image? Quote:
As to the newpaper photo, let me try to provide a possible explanation for the socks and shadows (if this has already been done, sorry but I didn't see it). This needs to be justified and it isn't artist overpaint: From the card and the very small shadow on the back of Lord's right foot we can see that the sun is high above and somewhat to our right. The sock on his back leg is partly shadowed by his own body. In the newpaper photo, he has moved that left foot forward - more under his body - hence it is more shadowed. As to the slider's high leg - the one we see with the wrap on the card - we do see the wrap a little bit in the newpaper photo - just to our left of Lord's right leg - a thin strip of white - then it goes black perhaps due to the shadow of Lord's body as he slides under him. The extreme black and white is what we get because this is a half-tone image. |
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To suggest this card "features" Joe Jax assumes the manufactures intended him to be the centerpiece. Bob's verbiage is much more apt - he is a cameo on this card - the printers of this card wouldn't have cared if Joe Jax or any other player was being thrown out at 3rd. |
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I agree with all the comparisons to T200 prices, I think the intitial hype and excitement will bring 5X to the T202 and after the novelty wears off will drop to about 3x.
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Brett, it was a great observation, and lots of people have contributed to a fascinating discussion and analysis. There was absolutely no need for your contentiousness though -- much better to be a consensus builder and treat people politely and with respect than to just dismiss them and mock them and taunt them. You continue to do yourself a disservice with that 'tude.
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Thanks Rob. I was insulted by the Holocaust analogy too. Not appropriate.
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You may well be right about the card. You are 100% dead wrong about your attitude. |
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I'm not sure why as this thread has progessed you see the need to go to arrogant and condescending. A significant number of board members have opined that in their view it very possibly might be Jackson, in fact likely is him, but there exists a reasonable possibility it is not. In fact, this view arguably reflects the stated consensus of this board. I hope that view is not a "no" by your way of looking of things, because if so I think it's a bit disrespectful to characterize so many board member as "blind, stubborn or in denial." In regard to your phrases "it's as definitive as it's going to get"/it's now as evident as evident can be", clearly it is not. I think most of us would feel that finding this same image in a newspaper archive with a period annotation entitled "Jackson out at third" would make the ID significantly more definitive. |
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You contributed to the board with a great thread; some people think you are 100% right, others think you are strongly on to something. Why can't you leave it at that? Each post you have recently made has been more absurd then the last. Quote:
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Call the teacher over, the kids are fighting at recess again. This is one of the best posts of the, as yet, short year.
Rawn |
I think this thread has gone about as far as it can, and at this point it is beginning to regress. Hopefully this discussion will end soon. What more can any of us say?
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Well, he hasn't threatened to sue himself... yet. We still have that to look forward to! :D (Brett, that's not a shot at you, but is poking fun at another board member who did exactly that.) |
At least Barkman's assholishness was tinged with humor. This guy just appears to be an asshole, period.
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That anyone can still say there is doubt is astonishing. The Joe Jackson-specific wrinkle on the left side of his face and the completely identical pant-line fold on Lord in the newspaper photo make this a done deal, and that's not even bringing up all the circumstantial evidence. Anyone who still isn't certain this is Jackson is in some sort of denial.
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Can we require all "newer" board members to state their occupation and current geographic location?
We can't keep blaming everything on New York lawyers, can we? And Land Surveyors from Hawaii just doesn't sound mean enough! |
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Sort all the threads by "Views" and this thread is #7!
Sort by "Replies" and it's #5! |
The analysis of the T202 has ended. The remainder of this thread is devoted to personal attacks.
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This has been more interesting than the Ty Cobb back discussions in my opinion. I think if anything, this thread will get collectors to take a closer look at all their cards from now on. I have several T202s and to be honest, I look at the side panels more than the pictures in the middle most of the time. |
Interesting thread, it is likely Joe after all but I retain the right to change my opinion if more evidence is found.
That being said, what people like Brett and Sportscardtheory (I have no idea who that is) have to understand is that while this one ended up being likely correct (I'm still not 100% convinced) for every one that is correctly id'ed there are 20-30 that are totally bogus. You guys were convinced that it was Joe prior to any of the evidence Greg put forth (which is the ONLY thing in my mind that leads me to believe it might me him) so your bias was obvious from the start. Prior to the newspaper photo evrything that had been put forth as "evidence" was essentially opinion based on a blurry image that had just as good of a chance as being Terry Turner or Joe Birmingham (as opposed to Jackson). When one is truly impartial they have to be convinced by the evidence, not the other way around--this is why Mark is so valuable to this board and the hobby. I think he is right on in his stance, he never once said "that ISN'T Joe Jackson" he was simply stating that he didn't feel comfortable saying it "was 100% Joe Jackson" because there is that small chance that it isn't (which still exists). Photo ID is an absolute...it's either him or it's not, if you say it's "likely" him then that just isn't enough for some people (got it!). The fact that both of you have been so beligerent about the whole thing really leaves a sour taste in the mouth (at least to me). We got it 350 posts ago that you were convinced it was him (even before the newspaper photo Greg found was found) but to ridicule or be "arrogant" about this kind of stuff is petty and childish. I have been doubted by many in the past about things in this hobby that turned out to be right, but a mature person doesn't feel the need to do the whole "I told you so" thing! The way Mark approaches photo id is the "standard of care" (to use a medical term). Jumping to conclusions about an id from a photo is done all the time and 99% are wrong. Take your praise as having possibly added a card to the JoeJax master checklist like an adult, no need for anymore jabs, shots or holocaust references (see Godwin's Law). -Rhett |
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Well put, Rhett.
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No worries Dave, I'm still laughing about the ufo, bigfoot, and Jack the Ripper comments that was pretty funny. I think this whole observation has been amazing but the excitement is already wearing off a little, but definately a great find in a set seldomly talked about. |
Rhett takes over the lead for best post of the thread.
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Great post Rhett.
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Great Post, Rhett. I have learned in writing about the hobby to never be surprised when a long-accepted piece of hobby orthodoxy is overturned with new evidence or when a new discovery pops up--that's what makes it fun... |
Yeah, great job making stuff up, Rhett. POST OF THE YEAR!!! I'm surprised he could still type on his computer while riding his high-horse.
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"That anyone can still say there is doubt is astonishing.
This has absolutely nothing to do with law. Majority rules in these situations. I'm sorry that you can't understand it, it's about burden of proof. Everyone has done an exceptional job proving that it is Jackson, while some people are wasting everyone's time saying that they... The thing I don't like about this, is that "Mark" isn't saying anything at all. He's saying he doesn't know, which is the same thing as saying nothing. The only evidence he can possibly use to... That's a cop-out. It HAS to be someone, and if you say it's not Joe Jackson, then who is it? IT HAS TO BE SOMEONE. Nope. It's your lack of comprehension that sucks. I was only asking who you think the player is, and apparently you don't have an answer. Many have shown that it certainly could be him, (and the... Why are you so angry? lol Light some candles...take a bubble bath...listen to whale songs. Him carrying-on about UFOs and chiding everyone simply because they are curious is SOOO substantive." All statements by you in this thread and essentially a case-study in belligerency (is that a word?) |
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Anyone that is not 100% sure that it is Jackson is absolutely wrong and as you put in an earlier post "brain-dead"? |
Good Stuff RHETT!
note to self; never pizz off Rhett. :rolleyes: |
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Hell, I'm pretty sure it's in the Texas history books that way. |
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Come on Brett, you can't just walk into a room of strangers, say you KNOW something, and then get pissed off if they doubt you or hold you to proof -- which by the way you never provided; by far the best evidence was provided by Greg. Stick around, but chill.
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I know it's probably not the case, but it sounds like Brett is ready to list 50 of these T202 cards on EBAY. And the fact that some people don't feel comfortable saying that it is definitively Joe Jackson is pissing him off.
As others have said, no one is saying it isn't him, they are just hesitant to say 100% that it is. There is a big difference which you are failing to see. |
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That's why this ID is more than definitive. |
Brett... nice find and I am in your camp; but
You can't convince everybody. Why can't that be good enough. When some members continued to hold out, instead of saying to each his own, you starting throwing barbs at them... not cool! |
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