You know there are 2 or 3 threads on the board at the same time talking about the same stuff. Nobody seems to want to say the truth. So here it is. The lowlife card doctors who are repairing, yes repairing cards to get higher grades are nothing but PUKE. The auctioneers who are selling this stuff are not 1 notch higher. They know who is giving them cards to sell but keep right on with it. And third the Grading company's who pass this stuff are disgusting. They take the hard earned money of collectors to grade their cards but kiss the asses of the big submitters. They are the lowest of the group. That's the truth here, not all the nonsense being pushed on this thread.

David and Ben,

I have been thinking this throughout these threads. I have recently purchased two Cobbs, a Lajoie, and a Mathewson...all 2s with nice eye appeal and obvious flaws. I also have picked up E90-1 commons that aren't exactly high grade, and I really enjoy them. I am not afraid to touch them and hold them. It is fascinating to me where all they have been, who has owned them, etc.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7e550ade83.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fb2b5b736d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...44b119addc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c763c3c188.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d345f1fc45.jpg

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Agreed!

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Not to change the subject, but what ever happened to all of the bid shilling talk? Did it just magically disappear?

It pops up from time to time, but it's not as sustained or investigated as it was a couple of years ago when the 1950s HOF rookies were tripling in a year.

Tripling in a month in some cases lol.

That was likely a very good decision! Just noticed this Boom Boom Geoffrion card on BO that received some very serious trimming that PSA, again, didn't catch.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=58

That’s the most awesome thing I’ve read in weeks! Truly what it’s all about.

IN A NUTSHELL! This sums it up for how I feel as well. Thanks for having the balls to put it out there. This is why it is so disgusting, IMHO.

that is Hilarious AND TRUE.:D

I've always considered the paying of $80,000 for PSA 10 Topps Sandy Koufax and such to be like a different collecting hobby. It's "other people" who do that stuff and not an area where I collect. What they want to do is almost none of my business.

Though it does offend my ethical and moral standards and "history sense" when people altered what are historical artifacts for $$-- and, of course, when it's done in the process of scamming people and breaking the law doesn't help. That keeps me interested.

I think in 2016 an 8 might have sold -- allegedly -- for that. I will never forget Bill Goodwin touting it as a 200K card. He lost all credibility with me.

I admit that my pricing may be way out of date.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=1531

Here is Brent selling one of Gary Moser’s altered cards and lying by saying it came from a raw set. Interestingly it appears PSA caught this alteration and Brent or Moser had to get it past SGC.

This is about #398 of Brent doing good things for the hobby if anyone is counting.

Raw COLLECTION, not set. LOL I guess you could call a group of altered cards a collection.

+1 spot on....Unbelievable.....

Poor Brent, these card doctors keep nailing him to the cross.

If Brent said it came from a raw set, he subbed it?

I remember doing business with Brent in the late 90's when I believe he was playing high school football.....He has really stepped up his game

Another spot on...

I wonder whose cards he was selling way back then.

It’s times like this I miss Jay Behrens on the board.

He loved piñatas, as I recall.

It is times like this I wish you would text more.

I read that description on the Hornsby as PWCC knowing whom it came form and then subbing the card on his behalf. To me this now gets to the level where PWCC shares more blame than SGC on this card or PSA on cards they submitted to them.

Knowing this card comes from Gary Moser and actually submitting it on his behalf because he is presumably on a “no submission” list from The TPGs is purposely trying to get an altered card through. He is using his reputation and clout as a large customer of the grading companies to add credibility to an altered card. While this card is not trimmed like the others something was certainly done to remove the discolorations.

Up until this point I was thinking the TPGs were primarily at fault. Now I put it more at 50-50. I was a customer of PWCC - I am going to spend my $ elsewhere now. I am certainly not a large customer by their standards - but if enough smaller fish (a few grand a year) stop buying from them it may hurt their bottom line at least a little bit.

I hope I was not duped with any of my purchases from them. I am sure all large sellers have unknowingly sold altered cards - but this seems more shady than that.

Edited to add name per request from Leon: Brad Sherlag

One wonders, assuming Brent was just the nominal purchaser/submitter as I believe he stated, on whose behalf he was acting on the 36 WWG DiMaggio. I suppose one could speculate and one might be right.

Most people that are on Net 54 have no idea who my brother is (Some days I wish the same. :-)) and the choas he could drum up.

Lee Behrens

In assigning blame I neglected to mention the person who doctored the card.

Card Doctor = perpetrator - 50%

PWCC = facilitator (until vouching for the collection the raw card that they submitted came from in the card’s write-up thought they were the first victim) - 25%

TPG - first victim but is in business to find these - 24%

Collector who was duped and bought the card - 1% - main victim - but most of us see a beautiful card and want to believe it somehow was well preserved for all this time. To me this collector has the obligation to present back to the TPG if made aware and try to collect on the guarantee and hopefully end the string. For this to happen the TPG needs to keep or destroy the card. Otherwise....

Someone cracks out - resubmits - TPG misses it and the cycle repeats.

To me PSA as the largest TPG should be looking ahead to try and better stop this. They should be scanning every graded card. They should invest in software that matches a card to the same card if in their database. The likely match photos should be given to the graders. This is likely years away but if they cannot do what the sleuths that comb through worthpoint can do at some point - then their credibility will go away. Until that time they need to use these cards as training material for their graders and look at if their throughout expectations allow for sufficient time to see some of these. They will never be perfect - but hopefully they strive to get better. This is what their business is built on and hopefully they understand that and are investing in continuous improvement.

Each time a fraudster’s EBay buyer ID is discovered, the sleuths find scores of examples of alterations from the same person that slipped through the TPGs. This over time leaves a bad taste for more and more collectors.

I do not post here very often but did bid and lose on one of the cards that was exposed. I resisted graded cards until it seemed like there were few raw higher grade cards of HOF from the 50’s and 60’s. As the proportion swung it seemed like there must be something wrong with anything raw even if I cannot see it. I believe I have the ability and knowledge to look at a raw card and assess a grade. I do not believe I have the knowledge to find alterations. That is what I pay a premium for graded cards to do on my behalf. I love this hobby and my collection. I am sure I have altered cards. If one of mine ever shows up I plan on contacting the TPG.

These posts are one collectors opinion on this latest grouping of permanently damaged cards.

Brad Sherlag

That's not really how the guarantee works, does it? They give you the difference in value between what it says and what it really is.

Why couldn't you keep the money and the card reslabbed as whatever it should say (presumably altered in most of these instances)?

Yes, leaves open the possibility that it makes it back into circulation, but that's really the issue at the TPG.

I don't see destroying the card as an option unless the current owner just says "here take it back." I guess at that point the TPG could do what they want.

I would rather have the whole value from the TPG. I do not knowingly collect altered cards and my fear is if I sold it it would end up in a graded holder again in the future. If they gave me the card back As my only choice I would have to sell it in the altered holder and hope it stays that way.

I think the TPG would be better off keeping the card stamping it altered and using it to train their graders. I know this will probably never happen.

Good grief, go read the comments over on the actual YouTube video...they mirror some of the threads here. PWCC at this point is delusional if they think anything good is going to come from this "conservation" sham.

Most -- not all -- are smart and savvy enough to see right through it.

:confused:

Confused a bit here. I've skimmed through this entire thread, even did a word search on my computer, but haven't exactly stayed up to date on all the other threads on this subject.

It seems like Brent and PWCC keep using the word "conservation", when they should really be using the word "restoration", because that's what's really going on with most of these cards.

If he want's to push this agenda at least use the right terms. It's something that's perfectly acceptable in other hobbies and collectible fields, as long as it's disclosed..........and then the market decides what those things are actually worth in comparison to the originals.

Conservation indicates you're using some sort of process to keep the item from being damaged to begin with. Like putting it in a slab, or a plastic sheet, or coating it with rust protector.

Yes this has been noted many times, he can't even get the vocabulary right. Or it's deliberate misuse of the word, because conservation sounds so benign and well intentioned.

LOL, nevermind. I just saw the other thread right at the top of the front page.

:D

LOL. If you have a few minutes check out some of the links to Blowout. Viewed in that context, it's all .... in my opinion ... disingenuous as hell.

A minute?! Try several hours! The evidence is mounting. And great wording- disingenuous as hell

What is really sickening is all the money he manages to keep on making on Ebay despite obvious bad doings, disregarding warnings and threats from other people, and he just keeps laughing all the way to the bank. First the bid shilling and now this latest bull shit.:confused:

Kevin....agreed!!! We have found common ground!!! Have your opinions changed regarding PSA’s credibility?

I agree in no name calling and all that, and Net54 can sometimes get harsh.

However when someone posts (paraphrase) the reasoning that "Altered cards are worth less than unaltered cards, thus there is no incentive to sneak altered cards past graders," it is not a matter of poll or chatboard debate or number supportive PMs as to whether that statement is illogical. It just is.

:DThat's funny.... We love ya Leon.

Other than complete megalomania, or really bad legal or PR advice, can’t imagine what he thinks the point of these presentations is. Does he have even one lawyer to tell him to shut up?

Pete- My honest opinion is this, I think the major graders are corrupt to some degree (Not just PSA), and I get sick and tired of seeing T206s graded 8's that absolutely look like 6's...I've said this before, I'll say it again, there are two heavy hitters on Ebay that get grades that are absolutely baffling...I think this also exists with SGC and I have also seen this as well. This is why all of this matters.....Most people buy the HOLDERS and not the card, I don't. If you take a common PSA 6 vs. a PSA 8, you are talking about $250 vs. $2500-3000....This is a hobby that is so easy to corrupt....And people it happens, believe me....

+1...I've never been too condition sensitive...like you...so I haven't scrutinized many high grade cards in my life...but I totally agree! The whole system is jacked...and it's time to drain the black swamp!!

I wish I could name names, but I'm beyond that and I won't.... Having said that, There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that corruption is going on with grading. None....

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