I have been collecting since 1978 and have always liked cards in ex-mt or better condition.

Card prices for cards in NM condition (pre 1980) are bordering on the ridiculous.

I attempted to buy a 1975 common in a Greg Morris auction several weeks ago. It was NM with a big print dot. I was willing to pay 2.00. The darn thing sold for 11.50. A bidding war for Larrin freaking Lagrow.

I've come to the conclusion that even tho I don't collect graded cards I am still bidding against investors who are buying cards to grade.

For this reason, mid grade is the way to go. As long as the card has decent centering with honest wear, that's good enough for me.

That's the best anecdote I've heard in quite some time...:D

I have mentioned it before, perhaps even somewhere back in the history of this very thread - but to me the tradeoff between midgrade or lower and true high grade cards also comes back to my eventual disappointment with true high grade cards. Whether subconsciously or not, if I buy a vintage card in a PSA 7 or 8, I'm going to expect it to be virtually perfect. The problem there of course is "virtually perfect" cards are 10's, not 7's. I've fallen into that trap again at least once even as recently as this spring - that PSA 7 which was so nice looking actually had an edge ding I'm not happy with, or that SGC 88 which looked great online has dull color in real life. The truth is I would not be unhappy with either card if they had been in the 5 - 6 range and I had paid correspondingly lower for them. But when I pay for higher, I apparently get the problem of unrealistic expectation onset - even though I've known how to properly grade for decades.

Two thoughts- Back in the 1970s having a card that was ex/mint was fine. The notion of having something "gem mint" was exploited by a number of the "rock star" dealers who hyped cards as an investment. I remember that even Mr. Mint himself, Al Rosen, initially opposed graded cards, but he sure pushed his other inventory.

Secondly, some of you may be familiar with Bill Heitmann. I once had a conversation with him back in the 80s where we mused on the notion of "gem mint." He noted that most cards are printed on acidic paper which over time breaks down. His point was that the term "gem mint" was a misnomer as our objects of devotion begin to break down little by little over time- much like our significant non-sports card others (my comment, not his.)

A card doesn't have to be "perfect" to validate a collection.

I feel the same way! If I get a great looking 6 I think I got a deal, but if I see a flaw in a 7 I’m annoyed. It’s like my optimism-pessimism for expectations flips.


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I don't have this problem for the most part with 60's cards and earlier because it's rare that I buy a 7 or higher there. But recently for '72 and '76 projects, I decided to buy a few 7's and 8's. Some I was happy with. But the '72 Clemente in an 8 which was basically a 10 with a noticeable edge ding was horrible. I couldn't get over it. I sold the card and bought a slightly o/c 6 for a price I was happy with. (The corners on the 6 are gem, btw. Centering and a minor print flaw were apparently the only problems...) My '76 Nolan Ryan in an SGC 5.5 looks better than my original of the the same card in an 8, which has sharper corners, but horrible dull coloring. So the lesson learned was I apparently don't need to buy super high grade in 70's cards either...:(

I love mid grade. It's the only way I can afford to collect. I can't afford NM-Mt or Mint stuff with my budget. I'd rather have a card in Ex over not having it at all. Also, I don't deal with anything graded. I like to put cards into binders when I'm building sets.

That said, I typically look for Ex with no creases, bends, indentations or wrinkles, no paper loss, pin holes, writing, no rounded corners and 70-30 or better centering.

I love seeing all these cards. Makes me want to up my game a bit. But my small budget ($40/week) doesn't allow for that. I'm not like most collectors in that I either have to save up to get something nice, or I have to sell some of my PC in order to get something nicer, quicker.

I think you are in a bigger boat than you might imagine. I don't have a huge budget for cards. I generally buy stuff twice a year - around Christmas and my birthday. :) There are some far-between windfalls at times, but for the most part other than that, I will sell parts of my collection that are old or less interesting to me to buy more "new" old cards.

I'm in the same boat where I have to use money outside my paycheck which means having to sell parts of my collection. Over the years I have had to get rid of some nice cards and memorabilia to purchase something else. The 53 Bowman set is a keeper, though.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and seeing the different collecting tastes of everyone. Nothing like finding a low-mid-grade card that looks like a 7 or 8 on quick glance. Here are few of my low-mid-grade cards.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-aaron-psa-4.5https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...b-gibson-psa-6
https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...e-mays-psa-3.5https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...lie-mays-psa-3
https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...lie-mays-psa-1https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...lie-mays-psa-5https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...nk-aaron-psa-1

Wow David, there are some choice cards in that group! What's up with the 1954 Aaron? Looks amazing in the scan.

Thanks. The Aaron has a very tiny wrinkle starting at the top of the card going into the second letter "A" in Aaron. Very hard to see but that is what keeps it under a 5.

Fantastic examples of mid-grade treasures!


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Stunning Gibson. Finding one with bright color centered like that is an accomplishment indeed.

Beautiful cards!

Mid-Grade Collectors
 

First off, I love this thread because it perfectly captures my collecting focus and what I believe to be the sweet spot for vintage cards in terms of balancing eye appeal and cost. Great thread!

Here’s a collage of my mid grade 1956 Topps stars. Since creating it I’ve upgraded the Williams and the Reese, but haven’t gotten around to making a new collage. I hope to make a new version in the coming weeks. Thanks for the look:


https://farm66.staticflickr.com/6553...34e9903f_z.jpg


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Exactly my thinking. Why pay 500$ for a perfect card when I can get the same card for 20$ and the only difference is that the corners are a bit dinged up. I still get the same amount of enjoyment out of the card and can get several more cards with the money I saved.

I think grading has become a fetish with modern collectors. I like a card in good condition, but so many collectors buy grades, not cards. Who cares? If you want to make money off of people who care about grades, it serves a purpose, I guess. You look at some of those cards in this thread that don't grade high, and to me, they're everything I would ever want in a baseball card. I don't think of them as "mid-grade". I think of them as good baseball cards.

I know what you mean. Last night I had hoped to pick up a few PSA 6 commons for my 53 Bowman color from the PWCC auction. The bids on those cards quickly ended that hope! However, there's a dealer on eBay, grpoch, that's selling a number of cards that are in decent, ungraded condition at a heck of a lot less money. I picked up a Billy Pierce that's in excellent condition for a fraction that the one sold for last night.

Yeah, good for you! I'll tell you the truth, I don't like slabs. To me, they're sterile prisons for the card. That's just my opinion of course. I could see putting a T206 Wagner in one, but to me, they overtake the card. I do put my cards in toploaders and also in sleeves. But with the topholder, it's almost like holding the card itself. You can go through them the way you do with cards.

I prefer raw cards as well, but on the 53 Bowmans with the exception of the Reese and Campanella, I purchased the more expensive cards in slabs due to counterfeiting or doctoring cards. I posted a few of them on this page if you scroll up a bit. Eventually, I would like to trade my slabbed cards for their raw equivalents, but the non-slabbed cards would have to be in equal condition. If I had the money or could trade I wouldn't mind going for something that was raw that would be better than what I have slabbed.

Ignatius - I like your 56 collection. I am slowly working on a 56 HoF run myself. I have decided to pick up graded cards for this project.

In the current price bubble even our stuff is going crazy. I saw a 1957 Topps Bill Russell in a PSA 1.5 holder sell for $3199 the other night. My VG Aaron RC is worth more than I got for a NM one I sold several years ago.

I had no idea that Russell card was even in that ballpark. I know a '56 Topps Jackie Robinson in lower grade used to be something you could pickup for less than $100, recently a PSA 2 sold for more than $300. :eek:

Yeah, I can understand the concern about counterfeiting and doctoring. It's sad that things have gotten to that. You can always take your slabbed cards out of the slabs too!

I posted in this thread way back and thought I was done, but I enjoy it so darn much! You guys are like my brothers from another mother! I don't really like slabs either, and I wonder how many collectors truly do? In no way am I trying to down how someone else collects. If someone likes collecting them, more power to them. No judgment from me whatsoever.

I am a bit frustrated though. At times I rant and rave about slabs, and I know I greatly prefer ungraded cards. Yet, many times when it comes that magical experience I like to call "buying time," I don't always find just a ton of ungraded options that I really feel good about. I have cracked slabs in my time but not lately. So, yes, I do have some lower to mid grade cards in a binder as part of sets, and I love them. I love handling them, smelling them, reading them, shuffling them, etc. But I also have a box with several slabs in them, and this is where most of the "value" of my collection rests.

I guess it doesn't have to be all one way or the other. Perhaps a little of both isn't the worst thing in the world. When buying a graded card, I still try and do my due diligence just as I would when buying an ungraded card. I believe in some cases, slabs have made us lazy in that we as collectors sometimes think we don't have to know as much about the cards we buy because the TPGer has done that work for us. As we all know, there are altered cards in TPGer slabs. I don't blindly accept their opinions. Plus, I want to do that work. That is collecting.

Hey Robert -

Yeah, my whole thing about slabs, is that to me, it represents where the hobby got too cutthroat and mercenary. People concentrating more on the the resale value of the card, the card as an "investment", that kind of stuff. But there are also collector's who truly like that presentation, and like you say, if that's how they like to collect, it's cool. And with some cards also, it might be a good idea to buy a graded card to be on the safe side.

You know, I didn't really realize that this thread is over 2 years old! I'm going to go back and read the thread.

I had a huge collection of cards that I foolishly gave away. Mostly 60s and 70s stuff, with some 50s thrown in as well. Also had some football, basketball, and hockey. It really started to bother me a few years ago, and I got back into collecting last year, saying to myself, "Well, I'll never get the cards I had back at the price I got them at, but there's no reason why I can't buy a card I NEVER had!!" So, I bought a 1960 Topps Roger Maris. And that opened the floodgates, and I have since been acquiring many of the old cards I had, as well as ones I never did. I have a lot of them sitting on top of my piano, along with some family pictures and mementos. I love just going over there and looking at everything, putting a different card on top of the pile for a while, adding new cards, etc.

You know, when we talk about condition, I have a funny story. My cousin's son, was enthusiastic about cards, and he told me that a friend of his was really into it, and might like to buy some of the things I had. So, I went over with some doubles I had. I remember having a 1972 Nolan Ryan, but can't remember the other cards. At any rate, the kid gets over there (I was in my 30s at the time) and this kid, cold as ice, starts looking at the cards, and doesn't want one of them. I thought these were like mint cards, and he's pointing out so-called blemishes, and the centering - things that I never considered or noticed. These were good cards! It was a revelation to me that anyone would look at them like he was!

So, he left, and later on, my cousin's son went out, and I was just talking with my cousin and her husband for awhile. When I left, I just left all the cards for my cousin's son.

I've seen where people break them out of their holders. These days it seems that many collectors trust graded over non-graded cards and that's why I thought about trading my slabs for their raw equivalent, it might be a win/win of sorts. I guess the only complications would be that I would want to see the card I'm trading for in person and I wouldn't want to swap with a dealer who would want to trade to their advantage.

I saw your posting about taking some of your doubles to trade to a young collector who coldly turned them away. When I was 12 back in 1973 I put an ad in a local paper looking to trade cards. An adult by the name of Tom Tankersley responded and he brought over some 1957s. He allowed me to get the better end of the deal, for him it was important to get younger people involved in the hobby. That day some of the cards I remember getting were the Amoros, Kluszweski, Erskine, Robin Roberts, and Burdette. The Burdette had a crease and the others were probably in VG/EX condition, but it didn't matter- I got some really cool older cards. When it becomes a commodity the fun and wonderment disappear.

Thanks! Enjoy putting together your 56 HOF run. I started my set in 2006 and “completed” it in 2017. Been doing small upgrades ever since and have really enjoyed it.


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That's a great story. And we remember their names. I have a similar story. I had put an ad in the local Pennysaver, and a Mr Siebert called, and one, weeknight, this would be the early 70's, on a school night after dinner, we drove over to Snowball Dr. and met with him. I would have been probably 14 or so.

Mr. Siebert had a very large collection of 1930's and 1940's cards, and he told us he had another buyer who was very interested in them, but he told me he would set some aside for me. I had a good knowledge of the history of the game and the older players, and I remember him saying, "I have an idea what you like."

So a week or so went by and he called again and told us to come over. And I remember him saying he made quite a bit of money on the cards he sold, but he set aside for me some 1939 and 1940 Play Ball cards of DiMaggio, Hubbell, Williams, Mel Ott, Lefty Gomez, George Selkirk and several more. There was also a 1934 Goudey Jimmy Foxx. He let me have them for, as I remember it, $20. I still have those cards, and I will never forget that man.

So - given that we are in a "bubble" - has anyone here cashed in even on some mid- to lower grade cards? I will admit I'm stunned at what some offgrade stuff is going for - particularly with Jackie Robinson and Mickey Mantle cards. I haven't sold a ton this year, but when I did I more than made my money back. Other experiences? Keep on collecting what you love!

Great story! I literally have dreams of coming across such finds.

Anyone have a mid grade (Ex or better) 1973 Topps #614 for sale or trade?

Along these lines recently I had a conversation with a childhood friend about our card collections. We both have our original cards from the 60’s/70’s. I told him that I had sent some of my cards in for grading and he got interested and asked a few questions about the process. I asked him about the condition of his cards and he indicated that they were in pretty good shape. After a few more minutes he said “at some point I decided I needed to be able to identify my cards in case they got stolen or mixed up with somebody else’s cards so I took a hole punch and punched holes in the top left corner of my cards”. I think my reply was “Ouch that’s not good”.

We All Been Dere
 

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...ARLYAZ_NEW.JPG

..

I haven't sold any vintage lately. I did move a few modern cards this summer to fund vintage buys and I have no regrets on those. I certainly could make a few bucks from the vintage I bought just a couple years ago. But, I don't have any plans to sell.

It's really nice to see these mid grade gems get the attention they deserve. I expect the trend to continue as more people recognize the value offered. Thanks to all for sharing.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=28307https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=28223

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=28360https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=22527

I've sold a bunch and plan to sell a bunch more. I am 'streamlining' my collection, clearing out the odds and ends I've accumulated over the last 30 years, because I can do it profitably now.

I did pick up a 55 Topps Mays. I've been procrastinating over one for a while and decided to get it done with some of the proceeds of the sales.

Adam the 1955 Mays is my favorite Mays card. It’s a thing of beauty. I have one in a SGC 6 slab I purchased long ago. I collect raw cards when I can inspect them in hand unless I win them from Cleansweep. Otherwise I buy PSA/SGC 6s on line. Cards in those slabs have become pricey, at least for me, lately. I settled for a nice centered 1954 Banks PSA 4 last year that was nicer and cheaper than many PSA 5 and 6s I’ve seen. That 4 now sells for a similar amount that a 5 or 6 would have cost me last year. I don’t think that rookie cards of Banks, Clemente, Gibson and their ilk will return to pre-pandemic prices so I maybe lowering my standards and start buyin nice 4s and 5s.

I sold some of my vintage basketball (profits too good to pass on) during the big upswing in prices and redirected some of the profits to cards in the mid to lower grade with nice eye-appeal. Trying to refocus my collection on rookie cards.

I believe mid-grade is not a bad way to go in the future as high-grade prices of some cards are going to be too expensive for most. I believe the demand for mid-grade cards will be strong as more collectors jump on the band wagon.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...mantle-psa-1.5https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...y-unitas-psa-2https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...im-brown-psa-4https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...gurski-psa-2.5https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-aaron-psa-4.5

Very nice cards, David!!

I would have no issue owning any of those! :)

[QUOTE=DeanH3;2038685]I haven't sold any vintage lately. I did move a few modern cards this summer to fund vintage buys and I have no regrets on those. I certainly could make a few bucks from the vintage I bought just a couple years ago. But, I don't have any plans to sell.

It's really nice to see these mid grade gems get the attention they deserve. I expect the trend to continue as more people recognize the value offered. Thanks to all for sharing.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=28307[IMG]https://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=813&pictureid=28223[/IMG

Love that Mays!!! Not to mention the rest of the 57’s you posted.

Thanks David. You posted some beauties as well. Awesome stuff!

That is a great 57 Mays.

I consider myself a mid grade collector. What I look for in a card is good focus of the picture, decent centering but not diamond cut, and reasonable corners. Generally between a 4 and 6. With my 57's and 58's it's more about focus on the card.

What an amazing group of cards. That 1.5 Mantle is insane! Definitely one of the nicest I’ve ever seen in that grade.

While we are in a very heated market, I have been unwilling to part with any of my cards. My 1956 Topps set was built around the idea that mid grade cards were affordable but that boat seems to have left the dock these days. I’m taking a wait and see approach before adding more vintage. I really really want a 54 Banks in a 5 or 6 but I don’t think I can swing it at these prices.


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I got out of the prewar business for the most part earlier this year, and reinvested some of those proceeds into random cards that have been on my list in one way or another for years. Probably the biggest thing was upgrading my '56 Mantle gray back (from an SGC A to a SGC 4) but the rest were just things I had never gotten done: Reggie Jackson RC. '55 Bowman Banks. '71 Clemente. '72 Hank Aaron...

A 3 worked just fine for me.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...pps%20Mays.jpg

Great, great card! Nothing wrong with that at all. The last year or so, I have been going this direction, too.

I probably posted way earlier in this thread saying that I strictly collect raw stuff in the Ex range. Well, well. My how times have changed.

I sold off a bunch of my newer, modern stuff and picked up my first graded cards about a week ago. Now I'm hooked. I find that it's so much easier to move vintage graded. Heck, I'm having trouble moving my ungraded Ex or better stuff (want to move it and buy vintage graded).

I find that I like the 5-6 range with focus on eye appeal. This was my first pickup. I paid a whole lot for it ($375 including tax) at the LCS, but I've been able to pick up a few other random vintage graded, and now I have 6 graded cards.

When considering graded, I always thought I'd like the look of SGC with the black frames. But I got one in hand, and I don't like it. Plus, I'm very CDO. So I want everything the same (PSA).

Anyway, I love vintage and collecting mid-grade stuff.


https://i.imgur.com/CQdAERX.jpg?1

Nice Splendid Splinter. One that is on my watch list to eventually add. Congrats!

Got the J-Rob from another member here:
https://photos.smugmug.com/1952-Topp...3FCF38D8-L.jpg. https://photos.smugmug.com/Willie-Ma...CA9B11DA-L.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Willie-Ma...9DB09249-L.jpg

That 52 Robinson, and I say this with an unblemished record of staunch heterosexuality, is fabulous.

I agree with Adam. Amazing Jackie. That '51 Bowman Williams is no slouch either. Thanks for sharing.

Wow, that’s a strong group of cards. Nice job!


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X3. Beautiful looking Jackie, and the centering/condition of the other 2 are also something to behold.

Great cards!

Mid-Grade Collectors
 

Oh are we showing off cards again? [emoji851] Here are some more “mid-grade” pickups from this year. Reggie and the '65 Mantle were liberated from graded slabs. Anyone care to venture what they were? [emoji16]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fd1f9bcd10.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7580ed4ef0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a4a052568e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a192f8301f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ebfcd781b5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...194161b0f9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7e75d8103f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...98b06121a7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1c3fc3d2b3.jpg














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Fantastic cards John. Can never get enough eye candy!

I'd guess Reggie and Mick were both 5's that have much better eye appeal than the grade.

Close. Reggie was a PSA 6, and the Mantle was the nicest SGC 5 I've ever seen. ;)

nice eye candy, John. I forgot you had some of those ('63 Banks for one).

[QUOTE=thecomebacker;2040856]Got the J-Rob from another member here:

Those are some stunning cards. The eye-appeal J-Rob, Willie and Ted are tremendous.

[QUOTE=jb67;2041340]Thank you jb67! Your cards are amazing as well! All great centering and tremendous eye appeal. The Mantle RC is Insane for the grade! And I need your 52 Mays 3.5 desperately, lol. If ever available, please let me know : )


A couple more RC that I think looks better than the grade.
The Ryan I bought from another member here less than a year ago.
The Bench I bought on eBay around the same time for less than $100!

https://photos.smugmug.com/Misc-Coll...299B8B90-L.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/Misc-Coll...25D5C84F-L.jpg

That is too funny, Ed, I have the same PSA 2.5 version of a Bench RC:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ps%20Bench.jpg

I got mine raw out of a collection I bought several years ago and sent it in myself.

Wish there'd been a Ryan in there...But I did find a few other mid-grade gems:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...%20Jackson.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ps%20Bench.jpg

Not that I'd call the all star mid-grade but it was in the same collection.

A few of my favorite mid-grade cards that I've picked up over the years.

Robert, that 57 Mantle looks amazing for the grade. I picked up this beauty off of the board's B/S/T.

I've enjoyed scanning this thread. I'm a low grade collector so most of the cards shown here look practically perfect to me.

Just for fun, I once decided to self-grade all my t206's.
I assigned a 1,2,3,or 4 to each of 5 categories then averaged for my overall grade.

here are the categories :
Creases,
border,
front clean,
front paper loss,
back overall.

Here is the scale I used:
4-good
3-minor
2-tolerable
1-distracting

thought you all may find that amusing!

Thank you very much, David! That Campy is smoking! I had one of those many years ago. Seeing yours makes me think I need one again.

Very Nice Bench 2.5 Adam, LOL!
Love your 69 Jackson and Benches as well.
Soooo tough to get a centered Jackson RC like yours!

Yeah, I just couldn't pass it up. 1951 was the first of his three MVP years.

That's true. My raw one is slightly OC

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20miscut_1.jpg

Love this thread, just added a mid-grade

https://i.ibb.co/ftybSm9/4473510-E-2...54719-C9-E.jpg

Love the borders on that 57! Also, that 48 Williams is an underrated card. Such an iconic image! Nice job.


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Great cards fellas, I'm really enjoying this thread! jb67's 4.5 Aaron in particular is just fantastic! (so are many others, but that one just jumps out at me). I'm finding that mid-grade looks better and better as I age and my eyesight diminishes...it's getting harder to see with the naked eye those minute flaws that used to drive me nuts!

I collect mostly ungraded but here are a few encased mid-grade favorites that I've picked up along the way.

Great cards, I especially like that Pafko!

Sold some duplicates and picked up this beauty

https://i.ibb.co/qNWy9tX/E6-B3-F81-E...E5-AF1-B51.jpg

That’s a sharp 4.5. Nice work!


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Beauty! I have the '56 Clemente in a gray back 4.5. I really love the half grades. In many cases they aren't terribly more expensive than VCP for the full grade, and they are usually fantastic looking cards.

Thanks guys, really appreciate it.

Chad

Delete, had problems uploading images.

[QUOTE=gustomania;2047014]Sold some duplicates and picked up this beauty

Great looking Koufax. Well done!!!

Hera are some mid grade cards that came in the mail this week https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1d527aac5d.jpg


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