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Both Tommy John Surgery etc and Steroids enhance a players performance and I believe neither were against the rules at the time. These are both facts.
Just as you can't compare the Deadball era against other era's stats. You can't compare the Steroid era either. You just pick out the best players from that era and put the top 1% in the Hall of Fame. |
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick.../memos20051109 |
Poor Cooperstown
All I know is that because of the ramifications of no one getting in this year, the small town (which primarily relys heavily on revenue from the inductions) will take a serious hit by the outcome of this vote. It was there pride and joy come induction day.
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Hof
I am laughing at all of the questions about who took steroids and who did not. The fact is that all of the players benefited from steroid use whether they took them or they did not. How many players have world series rings because they looked the other way when some of their teammates were using steroids? How many players received more salary because of the increased fan base during the McGwire/Sosa era?
In my opinion the players who weren't using are just as guilty as the players who were using. Why did they feel it was right to look the other way when a teammate was breaking the law or breaking the rules? Do you let someone commit a crime just because they are a teammate? What if the crime was something other than taking steroids, would they let a teammate get away with rape or stealing? Even if it wasn't a crime - do you let someone get away with cheating? Being on the same team doesn't make it OK to let someone cheat. It needed to be addressed in the locker room or if it was a crime then it should be have reported to the police. I love baseball and I hate to see the way the steroid use has degraded the integrity of the game, but I was very happy to see that no one was elected. And to all of the players out there - have you ever heard of doing the right thing? Shouldn't your integrity and honesty mean more to you than some peer pressure from your co-workers? How can you expect your children to stand up to peer pressure when you could not? Just my two cents. Rick |
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Given the injury history of many of these players, I guarantee many of them were on a steroid at some point. I also think that at some point McGwire would've received a medical exemption. However, he's an odd case, because he was certainly also using before it became a medical necessity for him.. Anyways. here's an interesting article about the league exemptions. And there appears to be a pattern forming with ADHD drugs.. http://deadspin.com/5964744/1-in-10-...ll-this-season http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...ositive-113012 |
Nailed it for me...
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Maybe Barry or McGwire can show the prescription their doctor wrote for them, but I'm guessing they acquired their drugs from a juicehead at the local gym...not exactly the method most would use who have a legitimate medical condition. |
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Mac definitely juiced. After the nagging injuries in '93 and '94, I believe he would've been able to receive an exemption though. But that's irrelevant because he was already using anyways. I wouldn't hold the Andro over him either. It was sold over the counter, and the government didn't even categorize it as a steroid until 2004.. Again though, that's also irrelevant because of previous use.. I'm just saying that there were probably a number of players who could've been granted an exemption. IF you were to know what current players have legitimately been granted exemptions, would you hold it over them? |
Novakjr,
The reason testing wasn't implemented was because Bud Selig (and a couple of other owners) staged a palace coup and caused Fay Vincent to resign as Commissioner. Vincent sent out a seven page letter stating that steroids were illegal in baseball. The problem was, baseball was in the middle of their agreement with the players and implementing rules against steroids and having a testing program would have meant opening up the collective bargaining agreement and putting the rules in. The owners didn't want to do that. They wanted to wait until the next bargaining session. The problem with that was Selig and Reinsdorf got a no confidence vote against Vincent and Vincent resigned (with Selig taking over as acting Commissioner). So, the next time contract negotiations came up, Selig was in charge and he said NOTHING about steroids and testing. Therefor, a new contract was in place an no testing was implemented. Selig COULD have stopped this mess before it started but he didn't. That is why I laugh at him for the mess baseball is currently in. David |
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But you can't ignore history!!!! It happened. The Hall just needs to be truthful (on the plaques), and recognize the "Steroid Era" as the time when players, owners, executives, coaches, AND fans were in transition about how the game should evolve. And it was exciting as hell!! (For awhile). We eventually came to our senses. |
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Over a 3-4 year period 3 of them hit a plateau while one was able to consistently build muscle/body mass, to the point he'd gained about 60 lbs. He also gained about 10 MPH on his fastball and ended up in the big leagues throwing nearly 100 MPH. A good buddy of mine was a really good football player and was invited to 2-3 camps with the 49ers. He never made the team, and eventually ended up in the XFL. He'd tell me about guys who would get stronger after weeks of hot practice when everyone was else was wearing down.. And those guys separated themselves from the others. He knew several guys were juicing, and several were playing, making teams, getting paid in large part because of it. The focus always seems to be on 5-6, maybe 10 guys who are the best of the best and threatening this or that record... And in a game like baseball its understandable since records are so sacred, but I think the far more expansive problem lies within the fringes and the hundreds/thousands of players who have to face a choice to use or not. Guys who see people flying past them in the minors, or an NFL training camp, and see their dream opportunity slipping away. I guess this has very little to do with the hall vote, so may not even be relevant to this conversation, but I do think it deserves more attention in general. |
The PROBLEM with picking out the best players from the Steroid Era is that BECAUSE of the steroids no one REALLY KNOWS WHO the best players were during that era.
As a hypothetical example, compare Mark McGwire to Wally Joyner. Both played First Base. Both played in the American League. Both played on the West Coast. Both played during the late 1980's and early 1990's. Now, if you compare their stats, you would say that Mark McGwire is more deserving of the Hall Of Fame because he hit many more Home Runs. But what if McGwire juiced and Joyner didn't? What if McGwire didn't take steroids or some other PED and he didn't hit 583 Home Runs. What if he hit 50 or maybe even 100 fewer Home Runs because he wasn't on the juice? How would Joyner and McGwire compare then? What if because he took steroids, McGwire was on the All Star team more and had more MVP votes? Take away the steroids, reduce the number of Home Runs (and Runs scored, RBIs, Walks, Slugging Percentage and OPS) and guess what? McGwire doesn't look like a much better player than Joyner. In fact, take those things away and Joyner may have made more All Star team and gotten more MVP votes. So add those to his stats and maybe Joyner looks like a more deserving Hall Of Fame candidate than McGwire. But, because of steroids, Human Growth Hormone and other PEDS, we wont know who was helped because they cheated and who were hurt because they didn't and we wont know the extent of either. In short, we wont REALLY know WHO the BEST players were during that era. So, I am in favor of NONE of them getting in. Unless, of course, these players want to come forward and say the are clean and then take tests to prove it. Or, they want to come forward, admit they cheated, tell exactly what they did and then have people judge them for it. David |
Wally Joyner? Where's the love for Eric Karros? At one point, dude had 30+ HR's and 100 RBI's five times in a six year stretch. And didn't make ANY all star teams. Now that's a guy who got raped by the steroid era. At least Joyner got 1 All star game.
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To me there is no question who the best players of the steroid era are. They are Ken Griffey Jr, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, and Albert Belle.
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