Rob....

Lots of great stuff there! Nice pickups... the '51 Double-scroll All Star Pennant is super rare, and nothing screams early '50s quite like that Navy Pennant. LOVE those graphics.

As for the MLB logo first appearing on pennants.... it was the beginning of the end (in terms of quality and artistry). The year was most definitely 1969, as Rob noted.

The NFL and AFL logos appeared earlier than that. It was mid-'60s... I want to say 1964-65, but may need to research that a bit further in order to pinpoint.

Lastly.... for those of us who are old enough, that free-swinging Batter could also have been Manny Sanguillen (the best bad-ball hitter I can remember as a kid). He swung at everything, and was always the toughest guy in the league to walk, haha. He swung at even more bad balls than Vlad, but with a far lower success rate. :rolleyes:

Regarding that Black/Orange NYG Pennant.... most on ebay right now are repros. Its the softness of the felt that will be the giveaway.... not the color of the tassels.

It should have the good thick soft wool felt that is pliable and bendable (almost limp). If you can slide it into one of those rigid hard plastic pennant covers with relative ease.... it's likely the repro version. Also, the real ones are more of a muted burnt orange than a vibrant bright orange. Hope that helps!

The NFL / AFL Logos on pennants date back to at least 1962....

Pictured below are two that I was able to find rather quickly....

* 1963 Detroit Lions Picture Pennant with the "NFL Shield" Logo

* 1960-62 Raiders Pennant with Gold/Black colors (the Raiders switched to Silver/Black in 1963)

There are quite a few other examples from the early 60s... but these two provide some concrete evidence.

Thanks for the replies and info Mark!

I don't know how it's possible but I never noticed the logo on those earlier pennants. For the NFL logo, I always picture the single bar helmet pennants. Funny thing is I used to own that Raiders pennant and never made the connection to 1962 for the AFL logo. I guess I need to spend more time looking at my own pennants. I might learn something.

I'm pretty convinced my Giants pennant is the real deal. It passes all the tests and I forgot to mention it is a different shade of orange than the repros I have.

FWIW - my Keezer NY Giants:

Rob/Rob...

Now that's the thick felt and "burnt orange" color I tried to describe. I can tell by the "grainy" texture of the felt, that one is good!

I don't usually have a particular interest in pennants but this is such a beautiful item.

New collector enjoying the hobby!
 

I am VERY new to the pennant collection community and mine are not remotely as rare and cool as many listed, but here are the few I have so far (I just received the Boston one in the mail (folded) this week...

There is an amazing amount of knowledge and variety with this group!

Minnesota Pennant Collection
 

Not your 'typical' collection I admit, but being from Minnesota originally I have sought out to collect a pennant of every MN team i can get my hands one :)

Welcome, Erik! Your Boston pennant is interesting to me because I have 10+ different SF Giants pennants with that exact same guy....but in EVERY case, he is facing the other way, as shown.

Welcome Erik...

Great stuff... your NY Giants pennant is interesting to me. I have never seen it with white felt and red graphics. Normally it's the reverse (white on red).

Very cool :cool:

Have any of you ever seen this? Picked these up today. Yes, that's printed tape on the NFC one denoting a location change.

^^^^ Those are cool. 1977 apparently.

I have bleached pennants like your NFC (no kidding!) with great success.

Erik,
Those are all very nice pennants and for the most part in great condition. Buy what you think is cool and affordable. It's easy to get caught up in Mark's collection, but not as easy to go up against.

BTW, you are missing a Minneapolis Millers (if you consider Mpls the same as Minnesota) baseball pennant which are occasionally available, but sometimes in the $100 plus range in good shape. Those are mainly from the 50's and earlier though.

Millers pennant
 

Here is a Millers pennant.

Really like the white Giants pennant. I have the reverse version which Mark describes.

Cool Pro Bowl Pennants. I have the NFC one (without Seattle note). It was sold as a 1972 Pro Bowl Pennant, though not sure how one would know that that unless they bought it at the game. The Pro Bowl was in L.A. for 2+ decades. Mine is a softer felt than I would expect for 1972. My other pennants of that era are stiffer than this...ie the 1967 single bar pennants. With no date on it, no way to know for sure.

Did some Pro Bowl research when I picked it up and being a Rams fan, was particularly interested in the 1969 game. Roman Gabriel was offensive MVP and Merlin Olsen was defensive MVP. The final score: 10-7

That was back when it was still a football game and fun to watch...though I was only 2....and not the unwatchable "exhibition" it's become today...with 62 to 35 final scores designed to attract kids, women and lukewarm football fans.

I'd love to hear your process. I have some white pennants from the late 60's and early 70's that I want to clean up.

Been experimenting with OxiClean (of Billy Mays fame) and thus far the results have been humorous. If you want to know how to turn a 1950's travel pennant into a completely blank pennant PM me. :eek:

Hoping to have some time over the long weekend to experiment some more.

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys! Rob, it's awesome you started this thread! You have some amazing stuff!

So, I bought Mike Egner's guide - does he participate here and do people send him pictures of pennants that aren't listed? Any idea if a hockey, basketball or collegiant guide is on the horizon?

Mark, your collection is bonkers! My head was spinning looking at your photos.


Jason/Marc,

Thanks for the comment on the Millers. Yes, I would like to add one (I have a St Paul Saints one), but seems to be very rare and they don't give them away...:). About 6 years ago I was outbid on a Minneapolis Mighty Millers Hockey Club pennant. In hindsight I wish I would have gone much higher (I guess we all say that when we miss out). My friend has a MN fighting pike one..:but he's got a tight grip on it! If you see any other MN team not listed, I'm game!

I use painters tape to tape off the colored border. Spray with straight bleach from a spray bottle. The pennant will be white in a matter of minutes. Then spray copiously with straight water. The one with the batter and ball also looked like hell when I got it.

Wow...Great results. No change to the silk screening at all? Did you just let it air dry after?

No change at all to the screening. Blot it between towels and then air dry. I've done quite a few with no disasters.

Got these pennants in earlier in the month as a gift. Just haven't had the chance to post any pics.

Mikehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...06b3f4e421.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ab5432aa70.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9652d1e1ff.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

New addition arrived today! I've seen it before, but it is not in Egner's book that I saw... I would be willing to part with it so PM if interested!

I was the one that outbid you on the hockey Millers pennant. If it gives you any sense of relief, I was willing to go much higher myself.

Rob,
The results on the 61 All Star are outstanding. You are more daring than I.

Jason,

Haha! I have never seen another one - well done! When I searched online a few years after I thought I saw that pennant within a museum collection...but it sounds like it found just as good of a home. Out of all the ones I missed out on, that is the one i think of most simply because I have only ever seen that one! shoot me a pic of it sometime? I would love to see it again!

Thanks for letting me know...but it's almost like a breakup and you find out who your ex ended up with :)

Love all the Tiger pennants. I am at the point in my collection where the ones I'm missing cost a small fortune, lol.

Here's a few of my Tiger pennants I have acquired over the years. The Bird pennant I sold a few years ago and have never been able to find another one like it in good shape. If anyone has one please let me know.

I have used the bleach method many times and never had a disaster. I also do it for a friend who is scared to do it himself. :p

Great job! I wonder if this would work on my 1976 American League Champions Pennant. I am a bit afraid of ruining it.

Mike

I was thinking that one would be a prime candidate! The 1961 All Star is a $200-300 pennant and i did it on that one. Go for it! :p

Chargers Football Pennant?
 

Football guys,

Have you seen this pennant and is it LA/SD Chargers? I cannot find anything resembling it in terms of design/era...

Great collection, Stephen! Displays very well!

I wouldn't swear that that's the pro football Chargers.....but I could certainly be wrong!

I also doubt that it's the pro football Chargers. The logo (while pretty cool) is not one that's ever been associated with the team and the colors are off. Also, if it was ever sold at stadiums, other examples would likely have surfaced.

Very nifty vintage pennant though!

As Mark pointed out...Wrong logo, wrong colors for the AFL/NFL Chargers.

In one of my many pennant google searches, I came across the site of a guy who owns pretty much every vintage LA/San Diego Chargers pennant. There are none that resemble this one.

Don't think it's college football either. None of the Chargers teams out there match those colors.

Might not be football at all.

Completely agree....

And the final strike against this pennant representing LA/San Diego is its 3/4 size. Nearly all 3/4 size football pennants pre-date the AFL. They simply do not exist, with the lone exception being a series from the mid-late 1960s (all of which feature the NFL Shield Logo).

But alas....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332248073784...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Wow, thank you everyone. I agree, it likely is not NFL. I also just received a response from Pete (Chargers pennant expert referenced) and he was very responsive and also did not think it was NFL/AFL. Side note - I referred him to this group for participation generally :)

The only thing I found based on colors and name was perhaps it was for Georgia Highlands College (http://ghcchargers.com/wp-content/up...n3XYAEKufu.jpg).

Regardless - always fun to find, research and commiserate with passionate experts!

Is it 5:00 yet???

Somewhere. ;)

Bleaching Result #1
 

Tried out Rob's bleaching method this weekend...This was the first victim:

Before photos:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps69vkp4jr.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psxes1ewdg.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psgaoychxt.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psknz6tujc.jpg

Browns after photos
 

Sprayed bleach and let sit for 90 seconds, then rinsed thoroughly with water using another spray bottle. Pretty easy and pleased with results. Now just need a nice orange spine.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pstsmcdoti.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psobk9pyiq.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps7upw5whp.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psfcoqqib1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pslzbczfea.jpg

Round 2
 

Didn't get quite as lucky with this one. It was way more soiled and I left the bleach on too long trying to remove the more stubborn stains. The red started to run. Even so, anything would be better than it's previous state.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psvtvrlh8v.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psww3hypqx.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pskd8mo8pw.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psdmnerrzk.jpg

Going to try to work on that black spot a little more, without touching the lettering if possible. Maybe try to bleach out the red that ran in that area. Then a spine transplant and call it a day.


http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pscs1mhnq6.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps9x8wqvtk.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps66yysc75.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psblvlao4s.jpg

Told you so! You gotta hang it vertically, point down and tape off the spine. Looks like you may have gotten some bleach on the Giants spine :confused:

Yeah the spine was loose and pretty beat already and missing the tassels (the tassels that appeared in the before photos were actually from the Browns pennant laying underneath.)

I did hang vertically but what started to happen was the red paint began to run down the length of the pennant. It actually looked much worse while it was in process than it does now. I laid it flat to minimize the running which worked. I was able to dab up most of it. But I think the laying down allowed the bleach to seep under the tape. It was a lesser of two evils decision. I can replace the spine.

I should've paid more attention to the graphics on the Giants pennant as they are painted on. I know from my old travel pennant experimentation that the painted on graphics run like hell when soaked. The Browns is silk screened and suffered no adverse effect at all. Live and learn.

Interesting. Silk screening uses paint, too. :confused: I have never had any problems with graphics but the oldest pennant I've bleached is a 1962 NL Champs. Now, you've scared off the other guys. :p

Yeah it's weird...The Browns pennant which I'd say is mid-60s held up like a champ and came out great. It was my first attempt so I thought this was going to be easy.

The Giants pennant was beat to begin with so almost anything would've been an improvement. The weird thing about that one...which is suspect is a few years older than the Browns...is the red paint ran like crazy, but the blue didn't at all.

So tonight I did a soiled white 1970's era Redskins two bar helmet pennant. It's drying now but the early results appear to be an epic failure. Not only did the red in the helmet run all over the place...but the white background didn't seem to get whiter at all. The black NFL logo on this one appeared to run as well.

The results are getting worse with each attempt. You didn't experience any running paint with yours? I'm thinking maybe a more gentle bleaching agent...Oxi makes a whitening spray that is supposedly better than bleach and not as harsh.

I'm not giving up yet.

This is scaring me from trying this with my 1976 Yankees World Series pennant. I do think paint was used on the pennant. I will have to look when I get home.

Mike

I coulda sworn you were gonna say "epic success." :p

As I said, you've probably scared off anyone else who was thinking of trying it. As I also said, I've had 100% success. Here's another I did. The previous owner underlined "National League Champions 1962" with magic marker and that did not come out but the rest of the pennant cleaned up nicely.

Probably a good thing. They can thank me later. :)

The Redskins was a total loss. Fading and running everywhere and no improvement to the white background at all.

I'll give it another go tonight...I've got a couple more hopeless pennants to risk.