The Mantle ended at $20K plus the juice.

Appears to be $20k for the Mantle and $4k for the Yogi, but I am not sure if that includes the juice?

Leon made the local paper today
 

Could these cards be too rare for their own good? Rumorville has it that PSA and SGC refused to grade them. This left Old Faithful in Beckett to slab them. Makes me wonder just how much money the Mantle would have fetched if in a PSA holder? It wouldnt surprise me with "new" ownership that these cards find their way into a PSA holder. Then the question would be, who convinced PSA to magically change their mind?

I know of another story that involves a single signed Lou Gehrig ball and PSA refused to grade it. After the ball was won for a song at a smaller AH, PSA had a change of heart and graded it. Then the ball magically showed up in a bigger auction and did really good. Im pretty sure their are other stories like this out there.

Am not a Mantle collector at all, but this price strikes me as a steal. Whether it's the move to PSA described above or something else, I would not be shocked at all to see this card at $100K in no time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk

I don't know who did or didn't look at it, specifically.
Unfortunately Beckett doesn't do a great job of marketing their vintage expertise, especially Beckett Vintage Grading (BVG). That helps keep prices down of cards in their holders. They did the legwork on this one and should be commended for it. The card is real and I think it's kind of crazy to have an expert look at it and not grade/authenticate it because it's not cataloged. It's a real card. The new owners might have a hard time getting it slabbed by another TPG for a while. :) That is just a hunch...But I have seen the card and there is no doubt it's a real card, for pete's sake....And unless it's a registry type card I am not sure it goes a lot higher in another holder....but I could be wrong.

I agree. I think it'll resurface in the next 5 years in a PSA slab and go for north of $50k.

I think this went very cheap also. I truly thought we would see 50-75k and potentially more. If I had the money maybe that top bidder and I would have went at it, who knows. The good news is, I cannot imagine with that much meat left on the bone that this will stay in a collection for long. :D

If MattyC won it, then it might be tucked away for awhile. :)

I think the price was fairly accurate. While it is Mantle, one thing that always seems to keep the values down on a card, even on super rare cards, is the popularity of the set. This set is so obscure that nobody collects it, which keeps the value down to a measly $23,600.

I thought it brought what it is worth. There are a handful of rare Mantle cards. If you can't get them into PSA holders they just aren't worth that much. If it was in a PSA holder, maybe it would have brought more.

The last one of one I bought was for about $1000 in cash/trade. Granted it was pretty ugly and now another surfaced, but I was hesitant at that price. This is more aesthetically pleasing and a bit earlier. With the expert marketing, I think it brought the max of what it was worth not in a PSA holder.

I agree with Chuck and Chris. I don't think it's some mega card waiting to happen, I thought it brought a very healthy price for what it is.

I respectfully disagree Peter. If that card were in a PSA holder, the registry guys would fight for it. Remember it only takes two. I personally know a guy at the top (let's say top 3) of the mantle registry who spends insane money on minor grade bumps. These guys take their registry seriously. A card like that would carry some serious weight (difficulty points or whatever the hell they call it) and could change rankings on the registry, which is EXTREMELY important to them. I can tell you that this guy I know wasn't very hot and heavy over it since psa didn't grade it. First was his concern about authenticity and the other is the fact he gets no points for it.

A big +1 there! Great find.

Sincerely,

Larry

I would have to agree that the card would've sold for more in a PSA holder, despite being the exact same card. How much more may be debatable and involve speculation.

Here's a question, err questions: if this card was graded by PSA, would it even be added to the Mickey Mantle master set registry? I ask because I just checked the master set checklist and I did not see the ultra rare 1961 Topps Dice Game Mantle on the master or "super" set checklists. Isn't that what matters, that the card becomes part of the player set registry? Does being graded by PSA automatically get it added to the Mantle player set registry? I ask these questions because I really don't know.

Also, there's a reason why PSA did not encaspsulate this card. Could their understanding of this set change in the future, thereby allowing them to grade the card? Sure. But this is just speculation. It may never get into a PSA holder, and if it did it would have to be added to the Mantle player set registry to garner the bigger bucks (or am I wrong about this?).

There is no denying that the registry is a powerful drug.

Admittedly, I am not an expert on the PSA registry. But I do take a look sometimes. For individual player registries, aren't the iconic/mainstream/rookie cards weighted far more than obscure cards? That is what it seems like to me when I look at the registries.

While the 52 mantle gets 10 points and the 51 bowman gets 9, you will note that some of the tougher cards like the Briggs Meat (9), all 3 stahl Meyer (8), home run Derby (7) Yoo-hoo (8), Tip-Top (8), the Venezuela cards, etc are weighted extremely high. Compare that, for example, to the iconic 56 Topps which is weighted at a 4. I suspect they weigh the importance of the card as well as rarity.
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...position/13018

Chuck asks a great question. No, I do not believe that the card is added to the registry by mere virtue of having have been graded by PSA. However, PSA does welcome suggestions regarding which cards should be added on to these master sets. If you can get it into a psa holder, you then need to argue your case I guess.

If PSA graded this, it would inevitably be included, but maybe just in the red category. It differs from the Dice Game in that it was actually issued, which I believe is why PSA ultimately left the Dice Game off. As for what goes in the red or black, I still can't detect a reason for some of the decisions (the Test Discs make sense for the same reason the Dice Game isn't included, but others less so). I believe I was copied on an email a while back where they explained that the points assigned are based on the value of the item/issue.

Interesting. Thanks, Chris and Orlando.

So this would be his top card then, no? $23,600 (which most think is artificially low because of the slab) is twice what you'd get for a '52 Topps Mantle in the same condition.

Not necessarily. For an issue like this, I doubt the condition played much of a role at all in the price. So, while a 1.5 brought $23,000, it's unlikely that a 5.5 or a 10 would have brought that much more. Whoever bought this bought it because they believe it's their only shot at owning one. Meanwhile, a 1952 Topps on a 5.5 or 10 is worth substantially more than the $15000 or whatever a 1.5 brings these days, with a ten likely being a seven figure card. So, with their metric, the 52 Topps and, potentially a handful of other cards, would still outrank this one, not to downplay the aesthetics or significance of this card--it's a beautiful piece and one I would have loved to get.

Alright, good point.

With regards to the registry, I know they won't allow cards with less than 4 copies if they're numbered to be added. So you can't put 1/1s in a set registry and then have the only one. Since this is the only one confirmed of Berra and Mantle, it's possible they wouldn't be "required" members of the set registry and instead be "optional" non point getting cards.
If they are permissible, they would probably poll the top 50 or 100 members of the player set registry to see whether they should be added, before actually doing it.

is babe ruth butter cream on the registry?

yes, looks like it's in the master set.

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...timeset/177698

thank you kind sir...how many of those are there?

There are four graded by PSA.

I wonder if rare front back combos fits this “guideline?”

I can only speak to Cobb, but I can tell you the 1908 Detroit Free Press is on the master registry with only one graded by psa. The Brush Cobb PC is also on there with only 2 graded by psa.

There were a couple of only graded on the Mantle one too, and I wasn't asked to vote on it. So, I'm not sure that's the procedure.

1952 Mickey mantle and yogi Berra mascot dog food cards
 

I read some previous post about these 2 cards that went up for auction and sold. I have a complete collection from mascot dog food with 10 cards in mint condition with geo specs toporcler, don newcombe, Eddie Matthews, Gil Hodges, Monte Irvin, yogi Berra, Mickey mantle, Robin Roberts, al flip Rosen, Ed lipstick. Need some help on how to authenticate and possibly value. I noticed the Mickey mantle sold with Wheatland auction for $23k. I have the whole collection

Authenticating would be easy enough. If you want them graded, You could go the beckett route though I be hesitant to send anything through the Postal Service at the moment. For a Collection like yours, perhaps wait until one of the Shows to happen again and tart going through the grading process there.

You could also post scans of the cards on here, if you want the board members to take a look at them. I'm completely out of my element for something like this, but there are very knowledgeable people on this forum. Hope that helps.

It should be easy to get them authenticated if you have 10 of them. Do the Roberts Mantle and Berra all match up with the 3 known examples? If they do then I would think that PSA would be your best shot at getting top dollar. Please I know it is frustrating to post pictures on this site the first time so if you email me the pictures front and back I can post them for you.

WOW...please post pics.

I also would love to see the pics.

So the known checklist and known count currently is (alpha by last name):
1: Yogi Berra (2) - Set Size: 8
2: Gil Hodges (1) - new name
3: Monte Irvin (1)
4: Ed Lopat (1)
5: Mickey Mantle (2) - Set Size: 11
6: Eddie Mathews (2)
7: Don Newcombe (1) - new name
8: Robin Roberts (2) - Set Size: 8
9: Al Rosen (1)
10: Specs Toporcer (1)
11: UNKNOWN - Presumably Bucky Harris (Mgr)

Originally there were 8 according to the back of the Robin Roberts card in the standard catalog. Do all of your cards mention 11 in the set on the back? If the Robin Roberts in your collection mentions 11 cards, then it's also a variation to the original known card. Once the 11th card is found and authenticated, PSA will likely allow for this to be graded by their company.

I disagree with the poster from a few years ago that the card is so rare that condition wouldn't matter much. I think that if you have an authentic Mantle in "mint" condition (like EX-MT or better), you could put the card in a much more active auction (REA, Heritage, Goldin, etc) and easily get over $100K. You have the benefit of finding the second one, so now the first one has kind of proved the authenticity to the market. If a 2009 Mike Trout is about to sell for $3 million or so, a 7-figure price on a super-rare high grade Mantle wouldn't shock me.

You can load the pictures on a site like Facebook (if you have an account), then use the image icon (mountain with yellow sky) above the text box to format your embedded image in the post, or just post the links (URLs) and people can embed the images for you.

Add: Hodges and Newcombe, along with Mantle, look to be the three cards added to the original 8 (known from the article posted in Post #52).

I would really like to see photos or scans of the fronts and backs of the cards if you have them. I wonder if you have a complete set since the backs differ in the number of "post card photos" offered. Also, do you have a "mixed" set of cards. Do some say "8 post card photos" on the back, and some say "11 post card photos"? Either way, you would certainly be adding greatly to the checklist of known card examples in the set.

Bucky Harris is the 11th card in the set. I have scans of the 11 cards, front and back from my research of these cards over the past couple of years since I found and sold the Mantle and Berra. I am actually in the process of writing a story on the set, with photos, and should have it completed in the next 2 weeks. I have photos of the only known complete set of (11) from the original owner who remembered buying mascot dog food in the early 1950s - these are really rare items (I have people calling me frequently to see if any are coming up for sale soon). Three of the card backs mention 11 postcard redemptions in the give-away (Mantle, Newcombe, and Hodges) and the rest mention 8 cards in the post card redemption. There are (11) cards in the baseball card set and the list presented here is accurate. I think they likely made 8 cards in the first year, then added the other 3 (Mantle, Newcombe, Hodges) in the second year. If anyone has more information on Mascot dog food, the company, or these cards or redemption program please let me know. It's been fun researching these cards over the past couple of years to try to piece together more information!

Ah, so you've been holding out on us... ;-) Are you working with pbruderer? Or are you saying you're aware of a second set of 11? If that's the case, we've gone from one known copy in 2016 to about 25 known only four years later.

mascot
 

Has anyone gotten an answer from the original poster to email

Not really holding out! :) I was looking forward to announcing it on here and then helping to see if all three grading companies will grade them - that was part of my effort to research them. It appears there are the following known examples to surface from the entire set (24?):
- (1) the original Robin Roberts in the old price guide;
- (2) Mantle and Berra that sold via our auction at Wheatland;
- 11 that I discovered in one collection;
- 10 from pbruderer?
- am I missing any?

Mascot et al
 

as I've always believed eventually everything shows up
How long did it take for cleveland indians central bank cards
Cleveland Indians prize frankies?
Bazooka 1960 box set
Mascot dog food
30 years for a red correct mantle armour and then 10
Still finding new pros pizza
Took me 20 years for sal yvars 54 hunterS
60 years to see the missing dice gsmes
Still haven't seen 1/2 set of opc tattoos...they exist but where are they
Only 1 Venezuelan tatoo...they must exist..where are they
Still haven't seen 3/4 of the felin franks
Still haven't seen 3/4 of national tea
How many jerry Jonas have u seen?
50 years to see cheri baas cola
50 years for the plaks
Somewhere someone has these cards just a matter of when and where they turn up

I look forward to reading your followup story about the set.:)

Mascot
 

pbruderer....
Doesn't respond to pm or emails
Could be fake

Weather Channel ?
 

..most of the East has no electric power,,,,patience this week , eh ?---and I'll be down to see you right after Thanksgiving , virus be damned...

..

Mascot
 

possibly....but I'm guessing he has a phone which has email, internet etc

I tried to ship a package UPS yesterday and one store had power out and did not expect power until weekend at earliest. Next store 3 miles away had no internet, and other customers at second store said that cable internet was down in entire town and most of county.

Mascot
 

Just strange it shows up just when wheatlands shows up.....NOT big on coincidences

If it's like mine, the battery is already dead.

We got nearly nothing here, a fairly bad thunderstorm and that was about it.

What a letdown. Was hoping to see an actual find of the entire set.

Sounds like you will since chuckw posted that he has photographed one.

Agree with that!

Thanks John. Look forward to seeing them ChuckW!

I do not. This would mean they are assuming Beckett got it right. Why should PSA rely on the inferior experts at Beckett? Makes no sense to me. I have no issue with a company deciding it does or does not wish to grade an issue. There are issues I feel are very questionable in some companies holders. I do believe the find chuck made a couple years ago was genuine but PSA should be able to make the determination on what they grade and what criteria need to be met to grade an added issue or card to the catalogs.

So has anyone heard from pbruderer yet
No response to email or pm
No response on this board
Anyone think he's real? Whats his name?
Wheres he located,?
Still interesting just happens to show up same time as wheatland with the same unknown cards

I believe many would argue about "inferior experts" at Beckett compared to PSA. Especially in light of PSA's recent problems.

Psa
 

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...ENBERG_NEW.JPG..

..PSA has been having problems with older cards for a long time...

...

Data entry is. Not done by the graders. I stand by my statement. Beckett grading is. Not reliable I trust it less than any company that I know is still
Operating. They all aren’t perfect but to me Beckett is the farthest from it.

As I understand it they generally don't make up their own minds, insisting that a card already be cataloged somewhere first.

To me that's not an expertise that anyone would be inferior to.

A couple of years ago I got a call out of the blue from PSA regarding an issue that I discovered and got put in the Standard Guide. About a month LATER I got another call from PSA regarding another issue I got cataloged in the Standard Guide. When I asked to be put on the payroll they hung up and haven't heard from them since :)

I actually put together the composite for 1932 Bulgaria Sport for PSA because I wanted it included in the registry.

Mascot
 

So has anyone heard from pbruderer
Never posted any response....never answered any emails or pm
Was he real or a plant by an auction house
Where are the cards?
Btw...offered him in email a ton of green And he didn't respond

Ask Leon to call him if you wish, just PM him.

I just find it pretty amazing that he knew the name of the other two cards in the set before chuckw posted a confirmation. So I'm still in the believer camp. Although I do watch a lot of House and NCIS, so I understand the "there are no coincidences" theory.

Mascot
 

Why not respond to anyone?

Beckett and PSA seem to do their homework more than SGC nowadays, to me.
I completely disagree with almost everything you say on the subject. Not that that matters, just another opinion.

And this person claiming to have a set is going to be suspended for now. It is a girl and I am not sure that post is on the up and up. I tried to call her but it was a voicemail and I don't leave them.....Caveat Emptor.....

Mascot
 

So where are the pictures

mascot
 

pictures of the set which were already taken were promised 2 weeks ago
where are they

Maybe you can subpoena them?

mmascot
 

They must be mixed in with trumps taxes

Done with politics. Infraction given.

and it might say something that with over 10000 members you are the first to ever accumulate 4 infractions and still be here. A new record. Be proud.

.

I don't think the original person who started this post has responded with their photos. I indicated that I'm finalizing a story on the Mascot cards and will post a link as soon as it is ready (involved in a lot of important environmental and hurricane response work right now but still hoping to get it finished by the end of next week). I'm trying to get information from another owner of a few Mascot cards over this weekend.

Mascot
 

still waiting for pictures

On the subject of getting an issue catalogued then graded...I've had a good share of experience on both ends. The graders are just trying to find good information; I've never seen evidence otherwise. Sloppiness at most (I got a good laugh some years ago when one of them refused to grade a catalogued card because it wasn't in the book; turns out their book was several editions out of date). I've found PSA is more stubborn than the others w/r/t new issues. I suspect this is a function of size. They are a bit bureaucratic and simply do not make judgment calls. I experienced this a few years ago with an Exhibit card that PSA insisted was from a different year than the actual year of issue because of a missing ad back, even though the players on the front would have been anachronisms if they were right. We eventually sorted it out but they do not just readily accept a neutral (wasn't even my card) third party's opinion that isn't written down somewhere. The SGC guys used to call me with with questions about boxing and Exhibit issues. I always found their research people willing to listen rather than rely on a catalog (probably since I wrote the f'ing catalog). FWIW, when I have something really good to report on w/r/t a set I try to break it with Sports Collectors Daily first and then (if it relates to my subject matter) put it into the next editions of my books before I even think about taking it to a TPG.

My only experience was with putting together the checklist for 1932 Bulgaria Sport. They had graded individual cards of mine but wouldn't do a registry on it without a set composite. Finally found a collector in Germany who had the album they're supposed to be pasted into and they were willing to send me a picture of every page.

I ended up tracking down Jerry Jonas and had a nice phone conversation with him. He told me what he could recall about the sets. I had been fascinated by the set because I saw it listed in a price guide when I was younger and just starting to collect. Plus it had a Koufax, and the Dodgers were my team. I figured I would never find any, but ended up hitting the jackpot.

I got my sheet and a cut up set from the same person, a former executive with a MLB team who was employed around that time. He was a big card collector, so no surprise that he ended up with the sets. I also ended up with the folder and paperwork from the same man later on, that I featured in my blog about the issue.

https://1978theyearitallbegan.blogsp...ns-update.html

Here is the follow up article I wrote after speaking with Jonas directly.

https://1978theyearitallbegan.blogsp...entations.html