True, but I doubt you are getting high grades from dealers at Strongsville. The cards have been cherry picked to hell.

I think guys see the graded prices, don't like them, then gamble with raw. Its all fine and good, just don't expect many 8s or so coming back.

Understandable but that was just an example. Majority of people I was with felt the same way. Show was underwhelming but the social aspect made up for it.

They had more dealers right? Did you think the dealer quality wasn't good? or just the pricing of the cards?

Phil, how did you do at the show?

I got that feeling as well. Lots of stuff there I recognized from Chicago last summer, which will also presumably make it's way back to the Natty this year as well. It's getting harder to justify traveling for shows when I see the same inventory at all of them. Something will have to give at some point, as the sunk-cost fallacy is alive and well in the hobby.

That said, kudos to the organizers. The show seemed to run smooth, entry was a breeze, and the rink was a great venue with space to move. I'd probably go back, but maybe not for a few years to try and let some inventory turn over.

People are finding their margins in the 5-7 range on middle tier HOFers from the 1960s and 1970s

I saw plenty of pickups and drop offs to SGC onsite

There is $ there

Lots of great content coming out on YouTube regarding Strongsville

I am debating putting out my own video. I did not buy anything significant and my observations are already being stated by many fellow collectors with channels.

Some of the pickups being shown off are awesome.

To name a few:

1. 1949 Leaf and Bowman Jackie Robinson
2. T206 Red Ty Cobb's with a Polar Bear back
3. 1953 Topps Jackie
4. Harrington's Ice Cream Babe Ruth
5. 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth

It was a blast. A big part of it was meeting up with some of the other Vintage YouTube community! I did make a card show vlog video in case anyone is interested. I made two personal collection pickups.

1. 1959 Bazooka Willie Mays
2. 1958 SF Call Bulletin Orlando Cepeda

Sales were excellent on Friday at my booth but slowed up Saturday and Sunday. Walk ups were not as good as in years past. I liked the larger space and the additional dealers. I saw some amazing stuff throughout the room. A ton of pre-War. More than I see at any other show outside of the National. I picked up autographed postcards of Burleigh Grimes and Al Lopez for my collection. I enjoy seeing all the old Cleveland Indians memorabilia that I don't normally see at my local shows in Chicago and Milwaukee. New this year was all the Youtubers. We don't normally get many at the Strongsville show. I'm seeing the back of my fat head on a lot of videos. Great time as always!

My thoughts about this show:

I have always heard about how great of a vintage show this has been. Being from NYC it is not the easiest show to get to - but my expectations were really high for this one. Many of the larger dealers are the same that I see in White Plains or Philly, and I generally know what kind of cards they have and how they'll be priced.

I was really looking forward to seeing some of the local dealers that I wouldn't otherwise see at either of those larger regional shows. Unfortunately at most of those tables prices were absolutely asinine.

A prime example:

Dealer had a 1971 Topps baseball complete set in G-VG shape. They wanted $2,800 for it. That's probably double retail. Later that day I saw on Facebook an EX-EX+ complete set being asked for.... $2,800.

All said, I did pick up some great cards and had an awesome time with friends. Next time my expectations will be tempered. Had wonderful interactions with JD Heckathorn, Stan Loch, Howard Chasser, Steve Wilk and Ashish Jain among others.

I attended Friday entering at Noon on the early bird ticket. I had only one day so the extra cost was worthwhile for me.

Entry with my pre-bought ticket was pretty easy - the line moved quickly. I loved all the extra space. It was really good to move around without having to constantly say "excuse me". Maybe the lack of strollers and card bros with their rolling suitcases was part of it too.

I'm sitting here starting to put away my purchases and I think I can definitely say Cleveland memorabilia > cards for me.

I picked up several Kahn's cards. Dealers said there were many requests for Kahn's and I saw more than I recall seeing at the Chicago Nationals. Prices and conditions were all over the board. Food issues and non-sports now interest me more than mainstream cards.

I picked up a handful of pre-war, all Indians players from the wide pen and fine pen Goudey, R316, R312 and R303A sets. I'm looking to complete team sets there.

Made a purchase of non-sports cards (Topps Scoops and Look N See), some 1960 and 1961 NuCard Baseball Hi-Lites and Scoops, some 1952 Wheaties and some 1930's Wheaties Boxes of cut Cleveland players.

Living in Indianapolis, the amount of Cleveland memorabilia at the show was great for me. I brought home 5 1930's and 1940's Indians programs, a Browns AAFC program and 1953, 1954 and 1955 programs and a Cleveland Barons program. Picked up some 1940's Indians ticket stubs and a 1958 pocket schedule.

There were several new to me dealers at the show and I spent the most money with them, though JD Heckathorn had enough to force me to Pay Pal cash to him as I was burning through my money.

Enjoyed talking to JD and Stacy, Pat Blandford from Kevin Savage Cards (poor Pat - Kevin abandoned him for the weekend), Scott Russell, Andrew Jenkins (first time I've dealt with Andrew), Dave Schroeder, Dennis Vanke, Craig and Holly Halbig and others I'm sure I've forgotten.

For the most part I just scrolled past the table with showcases full of graded cards. I'm still a collector - my card wants are getting specialized and I'm closing in on complete the post war Topps and Bowman runs. I'm not really chasing 1952 Topps high numbers and I didn't find many of my 1949 Bowman or 1964 stand-up wants that didn't cost an arm and a leg. I am not anti-slab and there are some cards I need that I will eventually buy graded - but I'm not looking for the high grade cards and not looking to pay those prices.

The concrete floor was hard - I don't know how the dealers made it through 3 days. I should have worn my new shoes. By the end of five hours my back hurt a lot. I went back to my hotel and hit it with the Theragun and I was fine on Saturday. But other than that no complaints about the venue.

I'm heading to Moeller on Sunday - that's a day trip for me. Interested to see what I find - I know I will see several dealers again and others (like Mark Smith) who didn't make it to Strongsville.

Then its the local shows in Indy until I'm back in Cleveland for the National.

Anyone got any pics to show of this vintage-fest??
(I mean, other than that chilly cold, stark, empty venue picture from earlier in the thread?? Brrr...)

I only went on Sunday, and for the most part I thought it was a great show.
The New venue allowed for much more space to maneuver as well as more dealers and collections to see. There did seem to be more of an energy than in years past, and I had some great conversations, saw some really beautiful collections and unique high-end stuff out of my price range.
I do somewhat agree with what has been said, though. Many of the sticker prices were significantly over comp, and in my experience the dealers didn't seem as willing to negotiate as much as the last couple years.
I did end up swinging a deal for a nice 1949 Bowman Paige, and while I'm happy with it I admittedly overpaid to get it done.
I kept asking around at different tables for 1917 Collins McCarthy or any T206 HOFers with EPDG, Cycle or American Beauty backs, but unfortunately had very little success.
All in all, it was great show with fun items you don't see at other shows, and some good people to talk to. I will go next year again.

Most likely because the dealers have too much into the cards.

I truly believe one of the better place to sell cards now is cards shows. Dealers want material and will pay up more now than in years past. If you have a collection, take it to show and shop it around. You will be surprised at the offers you get (in a good way).

YouTube is loaded with videos from the show where people scan dealer cases

I think "show was ok but everything was crazy overpriced" might become the most evergreen post of all time going forward.

Bottom line is dealers are hoping someone comes in uninformed and pay a crazy high price for something. Sure it happens all the time. Not the worst business model. List the $3,000 card for $9,000 and be a great guy and sell it to some giddy buyer for $7,500. And that fellow will be boasting to his friends that he chiseled the dealer down and brought him to his knees.

Some of it is that, for sure, but it implies dealers are willing to negotiate which for the most part, I am noticing they aren’t. Applying your scenario above to the Strongsville show, you would have been hard-pressed to find a dealer with that card willing to let it go for less than $8700. They just aren’t budging. if I had guess I think that dealer competition is fierce right now and most are being forced to overpay just to secure new inventory.

Bingo.

I also believe that many of these dealers aren't pressed to sell as they are set financially. Easy to keep high prices when you are in the catbird seat.

True. Plenty of dealers there with the glitz and glamour of high end cards. Some collectors get enamored and will overpay to get the cards.

One of the great errors of this hobby is looking at what something is LISTED for on eBay as a comp. No, listed price don’t mean squat. Look at the three most recent completed sales. Anyone can ask for an idiotic price.

Thanks for that!

Immediately in the first (random) video I played, the guy said it was 99% vintage...and I started crying like a baby. Why aren't there shows like that out here (says every collector, no matter where they live)???

If you haven’t found A Collectors Dream channel yet, I highly recommend that.

You can branch out from there

Orlando is a Collectors Collector if that makes sense

He was filming a bunch and always provides insightful narration

His collection is top notch too

He took a nice video of a YouTube creator meetup that many of us attended. It was a great time

https://youtube.com/@ACollectorsDrea..._s93OpZQ-gxgjc

Exactly you nailed it… I see a lot of these dealers selling graded cards, a card they just purchased from say a major auction house REA, Heritage, Memory Lane etc. If they were the high bidder, what makes them think they're gonna be able to sell it 25 to 30% higher at their show table if they were the high bidder in a major auction like that? it makes no sense They have the money I guess who knows?

That sounds like my video. There was 1% of modern there. At least, that's how I saw it.

It was this one, a little over a minute in when my tears began to fall...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIFy1C5skes&t=275s

Ah Yes! Dan! We both shared the same opinion then lol

Really need to offer the dealer great trade bait and at a discount so they can move it quickly, plus add most cash possible.