Carmelo,
Nobody accused you of a crime. Reread posts 13, 14, and 15. The three of us suggested that you introduce yourself, because when an anonymous person posts multiple suspicious Ruth signatures it makes us suspicious of them. We don't know you, so we are left to our imaginations. You responded to this perceived insult by hostility which was returned in kind. Perhaps if you had started with... Hi all, my name's Carmelo and I'm new here. I came over from GUU as I am starting to look at getting into vintage autos and such. I was looking for Ruth items and came across a couple of weird autos. First one that sold on ebay last month is (inset link and photo) Then I found this (inset link and photo) on the sports collectors daily site. They look identical to me. Any help would be appreciated. That is a good new member first post asking for help. Some of the same stuff you said, but you left out the name, etc. Additionally, even if you had posted the initial posts the way you did, if, in post 19, you had said something like... Well, my name is carmelo and I came over from GUU(insert ID). Been a member over there for about 5yrs and am looking to move into older autographed type stuff. I found them here (insert link) and they looked very strange to me, so I thought I would ask. Now you said some of the same things, but in a much more defensive way. The point that we are trying to make to you is that we don't know you, your level of expertise, or your level of passion and respect for the hobby. If you don't introduce yourself, how could we? What you will find here is that the forgers and scammers that are ruining our hobby really really really piss us off. If someone comes on here and acts in a way that could be suspicious, we will attempt to uncover the truth. Sometimes, that process isn't pretty. The unfortunate truth is that we have had our share of scammers come on and do exactly what you did and then it becomes clear they they were the forger. Edit: I see that as I was writing this Jim had stepped in and wrote basically what I was trying to say. Not trying to beat up on anyone. |
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We all aren't the same, I'm a 100% legit guy who responds very aggressively when attacked. But then again I would want to oust anyone looking to scam me or anyone else in my area of expertise (modern era yankees). So I get it, I just was not ready to be on the receiving end |
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If it makes you feel better, I'll go over to GUU with my 24-post count and respond to one of your threads. You can then either ignore me as everyone else will, or slap me around a bit. |
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As has been said by Scott and Jim. Take deep breath and relax. Read more and you will learn some of the personalities on the board. And to be clear. This site isn't full of scammers. Unfortunately, it appears more than previous, we have had our share attempt to come on board under the guise of innocent collectors who want our help. The same vigilance of the membership, that you experienced, usually exposes them pretty quickly. |
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I should add that I am very impressed with the way Ken attempts to photo-match game-used stuff. That's something that all hobbyists should be demanding, and it's something that actually could easily be done for every single game-used item that is sold. As I associate that forum more with Ken than anyone else, I obviously have respect for it.
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Hmmm....You and me with 20 or so posts, arguing about a Babe Ruth autograph over there....let's do it. |
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Well, personally, I thank you for the warning concerning the Ruth copies.
Welcome aboard. |
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The Ruth underworld is huge - it's much worse than I could ever have dreamed when I first started my search. It took me a couple of years of intense studying and research before I finally pulled the trigger on one. What I eventually decided was that, while most forgers are not great, there are some that are so good that I could not purchase a Ruth autograph simply based on the signature. When I was ready to pull the trigger on a typed letter on Ruth letterhead, I compared the type fonts of the letterhead and the typewritten letter, to other examples from the period, and didn't bid because of minuscule differences that probably didn't even exist. No cuts for me, no baseballs, no photos, and certainly no '33 Goudeys. But when I finally did acquire one, I was very confident.
Now I'm going through the same ordeal with Lou Gehrig, and I've even passed on examples that were priced right and had the go-ahead from two highly-respected experts on this forum. I think there are a lot of guys here who go about it the same way I do, so we are very protective of the hobby, and probably over-cynical when it comes to posts about the uber-autos. You would be surprised how many fake Ruths are proudly posted here by new owners, and I bite my lip and do not respond. I've sent a few PM's instead, and gotten my ass chewed. It's a very sensitive subject. |
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There are a ton of people on this site from NY. In all the time I have been on this site I have never seen anyone use" MYMAN." Never used in a term of respect or disrespect.
It seems that people that I do respect feel that your not a bad guy. I will go along with them untill proven wrong. I am sure if you are a modern day expert on the Yankee's that knowledge will help some of the people on here. |
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I found the original card, I think: http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-209.aspx |
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As an aside, I have been accumulating Ruth autographs, both authentic and also the best forgeries I could find, in a file (no cuts are otherwise blank cards). I went back to look at them and couldn't remember which ones I was certain were real :( I would like to build a file based on the opinions of forum members, but there is so much disagreement on 'real vs forgery', even here that I couldn't ask member to post the Ruths that they are '100%' sure are real (other than 'some' checks and legal documents), since there will be others here who feel 100% that the same signatures are fakes. It would end up as a battle of Ruthian proportions, perhaps even Gehriguan or Mantleopic. Dimaggestic? |
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I hope that wasn't the case when I posted my 1931 Cubs ball with Hornsby and Hack Wilson. I only got 2 semi-opinions on here, so I was wondering if maybe somebody was holding back their negative opinion. I hope not! |
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I agree, just in my small time seriously looking for legit ruth stuff I've been amazed with the forgeries. I thought buying a hand written ruth letter was as solid as it gets. Thinking there was no way a forger could get handwriting correct. Then I come across the famous Gary cooper inscribed photo! |
Jason, I would think that most people will honest and say what they think. I do agree with Scott when it comes to Ruth.
I have talked to who I feel are really tops at there game.There comments have been unless it is so bad, they are having the same problem everyone else is. So many bad Ruth's have been authenticated over the years you cant tell the bad from the good.:( |
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For a beginner like me, this looks aweful but it's authenticated as an "early" sig. For me it's almost like saying "yeah it looks bad but it's good"......... Huh
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So the one in this link the same as the first ones being discussed?
http://natedsanders.com/babe-ruth-au...-lot12446.aspx |
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Does anyone here actually know Spence? If so, they might want to buy him a beer and have a heart to heart. |
That is the perfect example of what I was saying. Those two autographs where authenticated (experts:eek:) How in the hell can we say something is bad if those two items passed. I love the B and the A connected:rolleyes:
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I've never seen footage of babe signing an autograph and the resulting image until now:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vT8v39c-288 :58-1:07 pretty cool |
I've brought this up before, but it's still wild seeing him so comfortably write with his right hand. Those darn nuns!
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And the printing on brown cardboard hides the remnants of the white background so they don't even have to tidy up the scan in photoshop. Steve B |
JimStinson
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Both Lou Gehrig & Ted Williams both signed right handed too, Amazing that Probably the greatest left handed hitter of all time Ted Williams was a "Natural" Right handed person. When they asked him why he batted left handed , he didn't know and said that when he was a young boy the first time he ever picked up a baseball bat he batted "lefty"
________________________ jim@stinsonsports.com Vintage Autographs For Sale Now on my Web Site http://stinsonsports.com/autographs-for-sale/ |
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To get back on point, just to make sure I understand, are we looking at potential copies of an original Ruth signature, all authenticated?
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http://natedsanders.com/babe-ruth-au...-lot12446.aspx Then yes, if not it looks like this particular autograph has been copied to near perfection and is floating around out there. |
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The card in post #2 is the original. I would be interested if the reverse had the same back as the others, or if the membership card is a later embellishment. The one on eBay states it is a reprint.
ALL of the 'brown' ones are digital copies. JSA got it wrong in that Sanders auction. |
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Shameful indeed
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The evolution of the steep tip fountain pen has been quite dramatic.
Wikipedia claims that the laser copier idea didn't come about until the 1960's, but that's not what really happened....no, not at all. 'They' had apparently kept the process a closely-guarded secret for over twenty years. One of the team members was an avid Yankees fan and tested the new device using various player signatures. Like T206 printer scrap, some obviously survived. The age of the paper must have been what fooled Mr. Spence. Understandable. |
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Welcome Carmello!:)
This post illiterates precisely the reason I never tried to buy a Ruth or Gehrig...Just kept buying Mantle Mantle Mantle. It was the only signature I could really learn and buy from 100-400 or so. There are so many Fakes across the board and PSA & JSA have made a mess of it. I don't trust them to do a competent job. The rubber stamper authenticator forgery ring has just put me in such a foul place regarding collecting, my eyes are hurting... I can't see buying another autograph. If I ever do buy a Ruth or Gehrig, it would be from Richard or Jim PERIOD. |
Jim PERIOD is a good friend of mine and I highly recommend him.
Thanks for all your kind words Chuck. |
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He was always my favorite class of school! |
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Wait...where's my wife? Is she behind me? Tom C |
The Comedy Club has arrived at Net54.
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JimStinson
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___________________ jim@stinsonsports.com Vintage autographs for Sale on my web site stinsonsports.com |
Good picture to post Jim, my all time favorite. Saw him perform twice at The Beacon Theatre in NYC, he was amazing.
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