"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>My advice to the budding T206 Wagner entrepreneur is to buy all the T206 Honus Wagners reprints you see on eBay and Yahoo!, because there's got to be a chance that one of them is real, right? Sure, most of them will turn out to be duds, but it only takes one to be real and, boom, you're on easy street.<br /><br />It seems such a waste to spend one's time and effort on one card, when you could be diversifying.<br /><br />For a little insider's advice, I heard that with the 2000 Fan Fest Wagner reprints, Fan Fest ran out of reprints and pasted Fan Fest backs onto a few real Wagner cards. Granted, this is only a second hand rumor, but it would definitely be smart to start with the Fan Fest Wagners.<br /><br />And, lastly but not leastly, even if all the cards turn out to be reprints: I hear that sexy young babes dig guys who spend all their disposable income on baseball cards. While I'm no matchmaker, I can assure anyone reading this post that his chances of getting a date with Jessica Alba or Maria Sharapova will not be lower if he spends more on baseball cards.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Mike P</b><p>Aaron suggests above<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1156207296/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1156207296/</a><br />"My speculation is this: Someone stole the card from the lawyer and promptly sold it to these guys for $1,800"<br /><br />Neat hypothesis, but probably not workable.<br /><br />The Newport attorney James Kidney reported his Honus reprint stolen <b>August 2002</b>, according to the Kentucky Post<br /><a href="http://www.kypost.com/2002/aug/21/card082102.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.kypost.com/2002/aug/21/card082102.html</a><br /><br />But MW in another VBC Forum thread says<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1154991589/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1154991589/</a><br />"I recall both of these individuals showing up in <b>1992</b> at a card show held at the Cincinnati Convention Center....One of the two guys purchased a reprinted T206 Wagner..."<br /><br />And Michael O'Keeffe writing in the Daily News on Nov 20, 2005 says:<br />"Steve Wolter, owner of Sports Investments, a card and memorabilia business in Cincinnati, examined the card 'eight or nine years ago [<b>1996 or 1997</b>],' and says he determined it was a reprint."<br /><br />So it would seem that Cobb & Edwards had the card well before Kidney reported his stolen -- and they probably paid a lot less than $1800 for it.<br /><br />In this thread, john/z28jd posts scans of his Honus Wagner reprint and says<br /><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1156097025/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1156097025/</a><br />"Heres the same reprint they have.I recieved the card from a dealer getting out of cards in <b>1991</b> and at that time the card looked old,so i could see it being a reprint from the 70's. Is anyone fooled by the front of this card?"<br /><br />It would be interesting to know if the details of John's purchase (where, how much, any story) would shed light on Cobb & Edwards' Cincinnati buy. John?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> I doubt my Wagner story helps but i didnt buy the reprint. It was given to me by an older seller who was leaving the card collecting business and had a table of about 15 cards left,mostly nice ones.I bought a Joss,pitching a Bresnahan,batting and a Beckley from him passing on the Mathewson card he had which was either the white cap or black cap. When i paid for the cards he gave me the reprinted Wagner as a bonus.He kept it on display in his store with the real t206s. I dont know where the guy was from exactly but it was somewhere close to Cherry Hill,NJ as that was where the show was and i remember taking his card just in case i wanted to buy the Mathewson later on which i never did.<br /><br /> I do have an interesting story about a card dealer named Ed Walsh who used to run shows at the Asbury Park Convention Center back in the 80's early 90's. He had a card store in Eatontown NJ and he had a Wagner reprint with a price tag of $10,000 on it in his display case.On the sticker on back it said something like, has one small crease so i'll take $5 for it.Well apparently someone who didnt see the back of the card broke into his store one night and walked off with just the Wagner card,nothing else. I bet they got a nice surprise when they realized they risked their freedom for $5 <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Mike P</b><p>Thanks, John for the courtesy of your Wagner reprint story, and for the sad-amusing tale of the Ed Walsh break-in. I can just see that one in the local newspapers under a "Crime doesn't pay" headline.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Daniel Bretta</b><p>I just got an email from Mr. O'Keeffe who claims that he offered to interview me in the past, but I never had the "courage" to call him. That's either a flat out lie or his email went straight to my junkmail box which I don't even look at - it's a possiblility since he likes to leave the subject line blank in his emails.<br /><br />I asked him if he has the "Courage" to come on this board and explain the following quote from his article: <br /><br /> "On Network 54, an Internet vintage card forum, the reaction was mixed. Some collectors were angry that Cobb and Edwards weren't dismissed as crooks.<br /><br />Others agreed that Cobb and Edwards may be on to something when they say prejudice has played a role in the debate over their card."<br /><br /><br />

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hmmmm...he emailed me again calling me a liar saying that he left me his phone number and I didn't call....I guess I didn't view that as a "request for an interview".<br /><br />For the record he's reading this thread and he still won't answer the questions surrounding his "story" on the Wagner card. Not really surprising considering the NY Daily News is pretty much the equivalent of the National Enquirer.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>Are you the only baseball card expert on the east coast? If he somehow couldn't get ahold of you, he couldn't find somebody else to interview? Crissakes, how far is SGC from the Daily News offices? REally, I just wish he'd sign in and copy and past even one posting that implied the card may be real but we wouldn't recognize it as such because of the race of the card's owners. Just one. For once, we all seem to agree on something. So at least we get that out of this!<br /><br />--Chad

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Maybe Mr. O'Keefe is too busy indulging in the Horny Goat Weed to respond..... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Chad, he doesn't like me because I called him out on the DiMaggio bat (long story and for a different board). He still never answered my question on that one. I guess since he's the "reporter" he's the only one who can ask the questions.<br /><br />

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>btw, I think I have corresponded with Mr.O'keefe before......at any rate..<br /><br />O'keefe wrote:<br /><br /><br />*****************<br />"On Network 54, an Internet vintage card forum, the reaction was mixed. Some collectors were angry that Cobb and Edwards weren't dismissed as crooks.<br /><br />Others agreed that Cobb and Edwards may be on to something when they say prejudice has played a role in the debate over their card."<br /><br />***********<br /><br /><br /><br />So even if you only look at the top part of his blurb, as you could think that maybe, just maybe, the bottom part wasn't intended to mean our board, giving him the benefit of the doubt, there was not one person on this board who thought the "whole" card was real. Not one. It's very public. His statement can't be defended. I am sure there is a legal term for it but it doesn't look to be a "defensable" statement. (there's a stab at it).....

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>That he doesn't like you doesn't give him license for shoddy reporting. All he's doing is helping to con men find a mark. That's low even by New York tabloid standards. <br /><br />--Chad

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>You can't give him the benefit of the doubt here because he says the feelings were "mixed" on the board. The way it is written it is obvious that both sentences are referring to Net 54. He just made it up, and that's why he can't come here to defend himself.<br /><br />Of course that probably won't stop him from invading my inbox calling me a liar and a coward again.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Chad, he writes for the NY Daily News. That's his license for shoddy reporting right there.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The funning thing is that, as most all T206 Wagners are sold in auctions where the seller<br />is anonymous, the winner rarely has any indication of the race, religous, political views,<br />sex, sexual orientation orrace of the card's owner. If the bidder is a white Conservative Republican<br />from Houston, he likely will realize there's a decent chance that the seller is a Liberal<br />Jewish Democrat from San Francisco who might cast a vote for Hillary. I'm quite sure the <br />thought doesn't prevent him from placing a bid. I'm confident there are conservative Christian Republicans<br />who would purchase a Wagner from Marilyn Manson, if Marilyn had one for sale.<br /><br />The whole concept that people won't buy an authentic T206 Wagner at a fair market price<br />because of the seller's race is, simply, stupid. To be honest, I'm not convinced<br />that anyone believes this racism angle. Just because people say something, doesn't<br />mean they beleive it. This is particularly true as the owners are aware that<br />the card didn't sell a on eBay before their race was published. <br />The lack of bidding obviouisly couldn't have had anything to do with race then.<br /><br />The race issue appears to be nothing more then a red herring from people who can't<br />find someone to pay hundreds of dollars for their card. <br /><br />In my opinion, Martin Luther King and his memory deserves better that this. And, if they<br />look past the $$$ and into their hearts, all parties will agree. I believe that there is<br />racism and injustice in this world, but I also believe that knowingly falsely claiming<br />racism for the sake of money is spitting on King's grave. I do not know what the owners<br />beleive, but if they do not beleive that their card is authentic and they are are knowingly<br />using false accusations, perhaps they should spend a little more time thinking <br />about how to get to heaven and a little less time about how to make money.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>If these guys truly believed the card was real but felt that they would have trouble selling it because they are black, why not simply hire a broker (white of course) to sell the card for them and give him a fee for his work. Since the card is worth $1 million, that would still leave them with 900K+. The problem is there are so many loopholes in their story that everything they say can so easily be picked apart. Keeping their race out of the transaction would have been so simple but they are hellbent on all the attention they are getting from this. Their actions make no sense at all. By the way, Mr. O'Keefe interviewed me over the phone last year as he is doing a book on the T206 Wagner and he seemed at the time to be a reasonable guy.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>Mr. O'Keefe is looking to dredge up some controversy in time for the arrival of his book. I bet this little episode will make a nice chapter in the book. I know Leon doesn't want us to use foul language, but this guy's a douche bag.<br /><br />--Chad

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Mike P</b><p>Perhaps Connelly, the auctioneer, doesn't know that playing the race card is an opening gambit -- a ploy to gain advantage -- not a social commentary. But O'Keefe himself, whom Dan Bretta says is "reading this thread" should know better.<br /><br />By the same token, it's hard to understand how O'Keeffe, who Barry reports "is doing a book on the T206 Wagner," wouldn't know in a heartbeat that the Cobb-Edwards card is a reprint.<br /><br />O'Keeffe's failure to set out the facts about the reprint, and his deliberate obfuscation of the (nonexistent) role of race here on the Forum is indefensible and inexcusble -- even for a would-be New York author craving publicity.<br><br>Honesty and integrity are the key to business success. <br />If you can fake them, you will go a long way in business.<br />-- Groucho Marx

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>dennis</b><p>with all the press these 2 guys attained from a reprint t206 wagner....they may be able to someday auction this card off as the single most famous (infamous) baseball card that ever existed. maybe they could get pro or grademycards to label it "the cobb/edwards wagner" auth(?).

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>I talked to Mr. O'Keefe yesterday and also a bit back about the T206 Wagner (can't remember why I got called but did). He is straight forward and does not hide anything or pull any punches. I had not read the 2 quotes aboout the Net 54 reactions when speaking to him and since have emailed him about the quotes.<br /><br />The one thing he did regret and takes for blame is the title of the article, he told me he left it up to his editor. From what I got out of why these guys are getting national exposure is because of the time and effort they have put into trying to sell this card and the fact that Mr. Connelly jumped on the bandwagon. <br />I got the impression that he does not feel the card is real but feel the paper dating evidence is compelling. I pointed out to him the possiblity of the card being rebacked and that was not a scenario that he was aware of. <br /><br />I believe, (I know alot of you are going to disagree, he is very approachable) Mr. O'Keeffe is an upstanding person and was more than willing to listen to my question and concerns about his article and approach. He has been during research into vintage baseball areas and the book on the T206 "Gretzky" Wagner should be interesting, he is trying to track the history of the card.<br /><br />Lee

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I'm amazed you guys continue to give these two clowns, three if you include this Connelly guy even a second out of your lives by still discussing this at length. IMO

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I don't know the writer of the article but I do deal with the Daily News and its writers very frequently. Trust me, they make mistakes but if pointed to one they usually acknowledge it. While the paper is a NY tabloid it has a larger circulation than almost any newspaper in the country - and NY readers are espeically nasty and unforgiving if they are misled. The article about the card was hardly a big story in the paper that day so it's hard to imagine that the error (and I agree it was an error) was made in order to drum up interest in the article.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I read today the article about the biggest buyer ever of Barry Bonds memorabilia and the guy pictured was a portly middle aged white business man. I read that he's not getting the prices he wants at resale, despite the plethora of press his collection has gotten. I'm curious how the Daily News would work this into the racism theory.

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>A race card can not be played unless you deal it out.<br /><br />There are no race cards and no creed cards in my deck, and I accept no whining on these subjects. Please remove them from your decks so we can get on with the game.<br /><br />Now lets talk about gender cards ...

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Gilbert, are you saying that you are not playing with a full deck?? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

"Race card played in failure to sell Honus collectible"
 

Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p><br />It is times like these that I wish that I dealt out less jokers.