Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 2412941)

Last year I was contemplating bidding on a high end card in HA. I called and asked about the condition and a little while later Joe Orlando called back. He completely described the card to me and could not have been any nicer. If you have questions about a card ask before you bid and definitely don’t call out an auction house before you give them an opportunity to respond to your issue.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin (Post 2413162)

Bottom line, if the customer is unsatisfied, they should give a refund with a prompt return of the card. If they asked for the card back to "review", I'd be shocked if they don't refund once they have it back in hand.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2413166)

They can't just offer refunds every time a customer complains though. Too many people would take advantage of that. I think it's important for sales to be final in general. But when an item is misrepresented they need to make it right. I believe they will. It's hard to argue that this card was not misrepresented when holding it in hand and comparing it to the listing.

Originally Posted by maniac_73 (Post 2413151)

Anyone who is backing the AH on this should be ashamed of themselves. This is clearly misrepresentation, and the fact that they doubled down after Travis contacted them is an absolute joke. Will be steering very clear of Memory Lane in the future

Originally Posted by mainemule (Post 2413217)

Is it me or does the PSA label look very different?

Left/ML's scan- bold font/writing and bar code looks more "dense"

Right/in hand scan- thinner font/writing

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang (Post 2413235)

This reminds me of the many discussions we have had about types of scanners used to scan cards. The comments on Net54 have always been to make sure you use a CCD scanner. The cheap ones are not, and they produce scans of cards that are out of focus (depth of field problem on cheap ones). That's honestly what these photos look like. But I can't believe they wouldn't have the very best scanner available for a large auction such as Memory Lane.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2413270)

Even nice CCD scanners like the Epson V600 can hide creases. The problem is there's no light coming in at an angle, and you need that to see the crease walls.

Originally Posted by maniac_73 (Post 2413151)

Anyone who is backing the AH on this should be ashamed of themselves. This is clearly misrepresentation, and the fact that they doubled down after Travis contacted them is an absolute joke. Will be steering very clear of Memory Lane in the future

Originally Posted by Johnny T (Post 2413513)

A gross misrepresentation in my book. Not that my business matters that much to them, but I just removed them from my favorites and will no longer bid in their auctions. No room for this sh*t from a "higher" end AH.

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 2413517)

But many still bid and consign with PWCC.

I just don't get it

Originally Posted by oldjudge (Post 2412941)

Last year I was contemplating bidding on a high end card in HA. I called and asked about the condition and a little while later Joe Orlando called back. He completely described the card to me and could not have been any nicer. If you have questions about a card ask before you bid and definitely don’t call out an auction house before you give them an opportunity to respond to your issue.

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 2413530)

To my knowledge -- and someone can correct me if I'm wrong -- ML doesn't have a history of doctoring scans. They've had some issues in the past for sure, but doctoring scans is not one of them. I suspect it was just a screwup and I think they'll come through in the end.

Furthermore, I don't see how this is even a close call. When you bid on cards in an auction, the scans are high resolution. Why should you have to ask for more scans unless you see a problem with the card and you want another image? If the card otherwise looks good, there's no reason to ask for any more info.

Originally Posted by vthobby (Post 2413551)

They have a history now.

Originally Posted by vthobby (Post 2413551)

The fact that it is taking this long to resolve is bad. This is simply an open and shut case.

Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 2413636)

It’s amazing how quickly people jump to conclusions and make assumptions. Let’s see what they say and do in your situation before any conclusions and definitive statements are made.

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960 (Post 2413643)

Agree! But comparing the card in the auction and the one received, it's obvious. So I guess the best I can say at this time, until we see how this is plays out, is everyone just needs to do a better job with attention to detail (pictures and descriptions) when posting. I'm hoping this turns out well.

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 2413517)

But many still bid and consign with PWCC.

I just don't get it

Originally Posted by bigfish (Post 2413548)

Very good point

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2412892)

I won this 33 Goudey Gehrig from Memory Lane last month. To say the card was misrepresented would be an understatement. Here's a couple of side-by-sides showing the auction photos vs how they look in hand. And yes, I fully realize that it was in a PSA 1 holder. But the problem nowadays is that PSA's grading is all over the place, and they regularly put VG cards into PSA 1 holders, and this is a brand new cert number, graded within the past few months. So there was reason to believe that the flaws on the card were as seen and described in the listing. It sold for 150% of what an average PSA 1 goes for because of it too ($3750 vs $2500).

Item description from the listing reads as follows:



This is starting to become a pretty big problem, in my opinion. It's always been this way to some degree, but I feel as though it's gotten worse lately. Numerous auction houses are either intentionally hiding major flaws or are exhibiting extreme negligence in their omissions and scans. Say what you will about how annoying the eBay Authenticity Guarantee program is, they at least provide a layer of protection against stuff like this happening. They will reject cards that exhibit major flaws that are not disclosed or shown in the listings.

I reached out to them this morning and sent them these images. We'll see how they respond. Needless to say, I wasn't happy.

Originally Posted by michael3322 (Post 2412997)

Very interesting comments.

I initially didn't understand why collectors would care about MBA ratings on top of graded slabs, but given the recent examples of inconsistencies, maybe the graders of the graders are actually providing a useful service after all? What do you think?

https://www.mbadiamond.com/images/MB...age-Banner.png

FYI: I have never used the MBA service and don't own any MBA graded cards.

Originally Posted by Johnny T (Post 2413687)

I stopped buying from PWCC years ago.

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 2413729)

Isn't that the same Mike baker that authenticated 10's of thousands of FAKE Mantle DiMaggio's Williams Koufax et al, autographs while with GAI? :) Yea, I really want his FAKE sticker on my stupid slab.

Originally Posted by BeanTown (Post 2413738)

I still don’t understand how PWCC stayed in business for all these years. Being banned from eBay and the focal point of an FBI (active or unactive) investigation is pretty amazing.

I will agree with a post above that in todays market. Good descriptions and hi res images should save auction houses time on the phone, and having graphic artists on the payroll.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2413794)

There's a bit of irony in your post here. PWCC, love them or hate them, is BY FAR the most accurate auction house when it comes to disclosing flaws and providing quality images. In their premier auctions, they even have rotating videos from every angle at super high resolution and have a guy narrating it as he points out every minor defect on the cards. And even their standard scans for cheaper stuff is extremely high resolution. You can zoom in 100x and see even see the print dots and grains in the paper fibers. You may not like them for other reasons, but in terms of the customer experience, they're second to none and it's not close.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2413794)

There's a bit of irony in your post here. PWCC, love them or hate them, is BY FAR the most accurate auction house when it comes to disclosing flaws and providing quality images. In their premier auctions, they even have rotating videos from every angle at super high resolution and have a guy narrating it as he points out every minor defect on the cards. And even their standard scans for cheaper stuff is extremely high resolution. You can zoom in 100x and see even see the print dots and grains in the paper fibers. You may not like them for other reasons, but in terms of the customer experience, they're second to none and it's not close.

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 2413820)

Ummm what about the cards they sold to a buyer, the buyer doctored, and then consigned back to pwcc in a new holder. They didn't disclose those.

I'll pass, they won't miss my revenue

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2413904)

Do you honestly believe that there's a single consignment company on the planet that is immune to this behavior? Because they all sell doctored cards. By the truck loads. Most high grade vintage cards have been altered in some way.

Originally Posted by BeanTown (Post 2413858)

Maybe you got confused on my post. I’m amazed on how PWCC is still in business after being kicked off eBay and having an FBI investigation on them. PERIOD.

The second part of my post was on auction houses (ANY) and how they they should use Hi Res images. Its rare I ever do business with PWCC for many reasons. Glad you’ve had success with PWCC Snowman. Maybe you know Brent personally or might even be an investor.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2413907)

PWCC was kicked off ebay because they were launching a platform to compete against them, not because they were caught shill bidding. ebay attempted to tarnish their reputation. I don't know Brett at all, but I live right up the street from ebay's headquarters and I know a lot of people that work there. They've been trying to recruit me for years. I know how ebay operates.



The FBI investigation turned out to be a nothing burger. Zero charges were filed. Just as I, very loudly, predicted would be the case.

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 2413911)

Only took Jeff Lichtman to put it to bed. Definitely nothing there hahahaha

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by BeanTown (Post 2413738)

I still don’t understand how PWCC stayed in business for all these years. Being banned from eBay and the focal point of an FBI (active or unactive) investigation is pretty amazing.

I will agree with a post above that in todays market. Good descriptions and hi res images should save auction houses time on the phone, and having graphic artists on the payroll.

Originally Posted by japhi (Post 2413934)

Because at the end of the day, the majority of collectors don't care. They want stuff, and if an auction house has the stuff they want, they will bid on it. Auction houses, TPG's, etc are all very aware of this.

If Mastro popped up with an AH tomorrow , and he had great "stuff", it would all sell for market value.

Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 2413993)

You speak the truth sir, What you said is the facts and the reality of collectors they don’t care if they have the cards they will Bid and Buy regardless. Card Trumps All.

Originally Posted by Snowman (Post 2414019)

Ya, I will buy cards from auction houses I dislike. But I won't consign with them... So it definitely hurts an AH to mistreat their customers. They want consignments more than they want buyers.