My saying is "Honest people are honest." Why are they honest? Because they are honest.

I've volunteered at a non-profit playhouse and they have their change (just nickels, quarters and dimes-- nothing much, it's just a little non-profit) in an unlocked desk drawer. An officer worker joked that I could take money and no one would notice. I said "I've known the money's been in there for years, and the thought of taking a nickel hasn't even crossed my mind. It's not that I chose not to steal but the very thought of stealing didn't even enter my mind." She said, "That's because you're honest."

I think the majority of people have no interest or desire in cheating others. They often also are aware of the concept of 'repeat customers.

On the flip side are dishonest scammers who believe everyone in the world thinks dishonestly like them, and usually justify their actions this way.

Then there are the great mass of collectors who fall under enablers, crowd followers and wishful thinkers. If you complain about shilling and fakers, then buy "stuff" from an auction house you know shills and fakes, you are an enabler and a part of the problem. And if are are high grade card investor who glosses over that Mastro said most high grade graded cards have been altered and that the auction house promoted that he could "prep" your raw cards for grading, you're a wishful thinker and probably home there isn't an alterations statistical report for the FBI to someday uncover and publicize. The majority has the control over how things are done, but they chose not to collectively their collective power-- of course, trying to harness that power would be like trying to heard cats.

If collectors want to really exercise their power, they would say they won't bid and buy with dishonest auction houses, and they won't buy stuff that came from the auction houses. If an eBay seller buys stuff from a dishonest auction house then puts it on ebay, you won't buy it then either. That would put the sources in a bind.

But, of course, business will likely go on as usual, because the "silent majority" won't do anything. No doubt a plethora of the complainers in this elongated thread have already placed their bids with the questioned auction houses, and no doubt the bids for high grade graded cards will go higher and higher even as the cards get shorter and shorter and the grading/resubmission/registry game gets stupider and stupider.

The high grade side of the hobby is why I love all those collectors on limited budgets who collect beaters. I always consider them the real collectors. My mom would likely say about a guy paying six figures for a PSA 1964 Topps Roberto Clemente to show off on the PSA registry, "He's probably trying to make up for his little weiner."

When you boil it down and realize that the hobby is dealing in cardboard kid's collectables, a lot of the stuff that goes on is just stupid and silly. Worthy of a Spinal Tap-esque satire. Just think what people outside the hobby would think. That someone makes his living secretly trimming and pressing baseball card's in his basement or resubmitting and resubmitting a baseball card until he gets the right number on a label makes you say "This is what you're doing with your life? Some people aspire to write the Great American Novel." I don't care how much money he makes doing it, it's still stupid.

Though I'm not at all a religious man, my other response explaining why I don't do certain things is "I want to go to Heaven." Yes, as a non-religious person, I roll my eyes when well known scammers wear their religion on their sleeves and bring a Priest to court while simultaneously claiming they did nothing unethical or immoral. Makes me want to ask them "What exactly are the tenants of your religion? Maybe I misheard."

Maybe so. But, what we don't know is how much insider trading has been deterred by criminal prosecutions. I don't know whether anyone has attempted to calculate this, or whether that would even be possible. I suspect a good bit.

If the issue is whether prosecutions will deter all criminal conduct by auction houses, we all know the answer. There will always be some greedy and brazen knuckleheads willing to run the risk of prosecution for money. Having spent a career in law enforcement, I believe we need to provide sufficient funding to investigative agencies and prosecutors, both federal and state, to bring these people to justice.

drcy - excellent post
it's easy to complain, tougher to go without

I don't blame you. Kenny has proven to be da wheeler dealer he is with he and Mr.Abramowitz appearance on the list. In addition to turning a once great informative forum into a monitored infomercial. I'm sure Mr.Caviler has a role into the destruction of a once informative site. Gee Thanks Chris!

Unabated Greed & Sheistyness Trumps All

Excellent Post!!!!!

The chimps took over like that sci-fi flick with Chuck Heston

A side note
 

I was chatting with a local dealer on Sunday who said when the Sotheby fraud was disclosed he was able to get back 10 percent of what he spent and wondered why no similar restitution has been made to Mastro''s victims.

Rich

+1

Awesome quote from an awesome movie! I can't believe people actually jumped down your throat for this one! I thought this movie and quote were part of every guy's DNA (especially for those that collect cardboard). I choked on my lunch when I read your post and then choked some more when I saw some guys on here that didn't get it. Shocking!

right i would be interested if there has been an increased funding on these issues.....i suspect not...

I highly disagree IMO Ken and Chris are one of the most honest people I have ever dealt with in the hobby. Goldin Auctions has top rated stuff every auction and they do thorough research behind each item and will not hesitate to pull a item if it is found to be questionable.

Umm...you may want to read the 971 prior posts on this thread. Very interesting first post. Welcome to the board.

I'm sure that many people have had only positive experiences with them as you have. But, yeah, what about all that shilling info from the Mastro/Legendary document? And no response from Mr. Goldin....

Upon further review our newest member has bad registration information on file. Correct registration information is required for membership. If he comes back with good info we can go from there. (he is suspended but his name was put there before his suspension) Hopefuly it's all a big mistake. thanks

ps...and my guess is that if we think through this we might come to the conclusion the anonymous poster is not an ally of anyone in this thread.

As for Goldin, I wouldn't hesitate to bid in his auctions, and I'm very critical of members of this list. I've talked to him since it was released. Has anyone else?

(got new info, disregard my comment on Phil316)

Whomever it is gave a bad phone number and registered with his name. Maybe it isn't him? That is an absolute possibility and also the reason there will not be anymore posts like that (anonymous?)allowed in this thread. They will be deleted and the members banned. If this person is who that is, then they can email me a good phone number, we can chat for a few minutes and I will come back and say it was a mistake? No big deal. It has happened before but more often than not it doesn't happen, in my experiences.

Phil316 is a very frequent poster on gameuseduniverse.

Phillipriddell@hotmail.com is his given email address, Leon. Seems to be his name there too.

I would not bid with Goldin
 

I would not bid with him before the list came out and I won't bid after it came out. His actions at shop at home were egregious enough, in my opinion, that he will never get a dime from me. There are plenty of people out there who did not try and ruin the hobby or take advantage of those with lesser knowledge like i feel Kenny as his colleagues did on TV. It is a free country spend with whom you choose I just choose not to spend with him and never will. I do not need any card that bad to line his pockets.

That person (Phil) says it's not him...... Never underestimate the troll.

Ok, so just to get this straight. Someone creates a profile using the name and ID of a regular poster on GUU, and then comes over here to post in defense of Goldin. Is there any conclusion to draw other than this was someone at Goldin trying (fraudulently) to do some reputation rehab? Should we take this as Goldin's "official" response since nothing else was ever said?

I suppose there are plenty of other explanations, but my head hurts just trying to figure them out.

ETA: I guess someone with an axe to grind against Goldin could have made up this ruse, knowing it would be discovered and blamed on Goldin, in order to stir up more bad feelings?

When I first saw "Phil316" and the 'name' underneath, my mind went to Philippians 3:16. Not sure why, but hey, it's the subconscious so who am I to ask. LOL Not being overly devout, I looked it up.

15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Not trying to be religious here but wanted to provide the 'context' of v16 by v15 above. Interesting.... in light of this thread.

I'm thinking more serendipitous rather than intentional.

I figured it was his first name, and then a reference to John 3:16

Don't let your head hurt. Trust me, mine does it enough for both of us. But yes, I think you are onto the "trolling 102" class. Of course you have to take trolling 101 first as we are now in advanced trolling mode. Think about it, if you didn't like Goldin Auctions that would have been a great post (except it's a discovered troll now).

consignor bidding
 

i'll pose a question to get this thread back on track. Since I've read in more than a few posts that Heritage allows consignors to bid on own consignments. If every AH placed this in print as does HA rules, would this not alleviate some of this controversy. I'm not taking stance of consignor self bidding just making a point that if one AH places it within the rules to be ok to do so why don't they all?

each state is different and may have laws preventing such action.

i don't know, not an attorney but heritage is allowed to do so by texas law.

apart from obvious integrity issues, being allowed by law is pretty key.

but again, would like to see the legislature read that if any auction house does bid and win, that the 20% buyer's premium should go to the consignor.

of course, then they'd prolly just claim it was a non-paying bidder and we're back at square one again...

Bob, Great point of the 20% BP. I'm sure that's in the playbook of every AH. None excluded.

Seems like item 3 of your 2nd column being employed again by "The Real" on his expert opinions and prospective buying. Yet of course this "guy" has never posted nor talked about anything he collects. I guess threat color code has lessened to yellow.

How often do you guess House wins lots and use the non-paying bidder ploy and what happens next? Do they contact the next highest bidder or do they re-list? Prior to the internet when AHs were utilizing phone call in's to place bids. I'm sure the house bump was a standard that was employed routinely because of the lack of "hard" paper trail with phone bumps.

How often? Who knows. HA, I believe, is the only one brazen enough to afford themselves that right. A clue may be what happened with the Lenox Cobb: It hung around $8000 , with a sudden bump to a $17,000 bid ( which I believe was a house bid) . It hammers at that price and the next day is for sale at Heritage at that price. Disgusted me, but maybe I'm wrong in how it went down.

this is Hilarious
in pic: da rev and Mr.Muggs aka ______________ (fill in the blank)

I am fairly certain that the card had a reserve that didn't post until there were only a few days left. The bidding took it to $8 k and then the reserve of $17 k posted making that the bid with no high bidder. Basically the card didn't sell because nobody bid the reserve. HA then offered it for sale after the auction.

Looks like Heritage has it on the 'wood block' again for bidding 4/21/2016
http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19...ription-071515

some people just think their cards are worth more than reality dictates??

Correct. Fairly common for Heritage. They don't post a reserve until well into the auction. Gives a false impression IMO of where things stand.

Spot on Brody

I found another picture from the Clown College yearbook of papa with his #1 trained monkey

Martin N Lewis was one of the sickest comedy teams in the biz!

In light of "The List" being revealed. Does this open letter make everyone feel better?

This thread is over. Start a new one.