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GREAT football pennants, Rob. I noticed many of them have "streamer" tassels that you rarely, if ever, see on baseball pennants.
As far as the bad artwork on the Ad Flag pennents, I'll have to post my Giants examples. The art IS funky but I kind of like them. |
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New Jersey Giants!
Fballguy: I enjoyed seeing those pennants! Thanks for showing them.
Being from NJ I remember the Meadowlands stadium being built, but I forgot about the short-lived "New Jersey" Giants name. What an uproar that caused. |
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Also Rob, I saw your Lions pennant and thought you might like to see this one. I don't own it any longer but if I remember my research, I think this is from the one year the Lions didn't play at Briggs in the 40s, hence the little space and the set-back letter L. Thought you'd like to see. |
You got this one buddy?
<a href="http://s193.photobucket.com/user/whynow357/media/steeeeelers.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z157/whynow357/steeeeelers.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo steeeeelers.jpg"/></a> |
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Hey Rob - your first NY Giants FB is kind of similar to these NY and SF Giants BB...
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No "sex offenders" in these Ad Flag examples :p. The NY one had a crude representation of the Polo Grounds. The SF Giants kept this design for a short period, before replacing it with the Golden Gate Bridge.
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1964 World Champ Browns is a reprint, right?
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Willow grove: Thanks for sharing that picture and the history behind it. Very cool. I always wonder what the thought process was behind using non-team colors for pennants. I have quite a few color variations particularly for my Rams pennants as they're my team (sadly).
Showdawg: I don't have that one but there was one up on Ebay a couple years ago. I bowed out when bidding got too high. Do you think that was a hand modification to the tip to compensate for a missing tip? The one on eBay had a pointy tip. I do see other old pennants cut like that from time to time. ooo-ribay: Love the pics. Are you referring to my white 64 World Champs pennant? Did they make reprints of it? I wondered about the whole punched in the left border. It is in very good condition so maybe it's not as old as I thought unfortunately. |
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And Rob, any idea why your Jersey Giants pennant says Jersey since it was back in the pre-meadowlands days? thanks. Peter |
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That's an interesting fact I never knew. Thanks! |
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/131917860548...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT |
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http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psyqmcyrj5.jpg |
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Rob,
Those are some really nice vintage football pennants. Thanks for showing. I have never seen that dolphins generic version that you showed, must be a real tough one. In regard to the 1964 white Browns pennant, yes that is a "reprint" or printed much later. I have never seen a "real" or vintage version of that exact pennant. I have seen all of the other Browns versions that were shown. Those are some tremendous pennants as well. That Steelers / Cardinals pennant sold on eBay a few years ago. I bid on it, but didn't go too high considering the trimmed tip. I want to say it sold for $300-500. Extremely rare pennant and very nice condition other than the tip. I have never been one to tell someone what they choose to sell an item for, especially a very rare pennant. Someone may want or need it and be willing to pay well for it. Either way, it's nice to see that pennant as well. Good stuff is getting tough to find. Jason |
Not to beat a dead horse or bust anyone's chops, but I think that 1964 Browns pennant HAS to be a later release.
It looks like the later, stiffer, polyester-infused "felt." The hole suggests it had a cardboard "hang strip" (perhaps Wincraft?) attached to it. Are there maybe four staple holes on the border? Lack of tassels (not sure if this is indicative or anything). On baseball pennants, a league logo (MLB) denotes 1969 or later. Not sure when NFL licensing came into being. Again, not trying to disparage that pennant....just adding my two cents for sake of debate. |
^^^^ Jason beat me to it. :D
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Yes...The 64 Browns white pennant came out in the late 90s, maybe early 2000s....I remember when they came out, some sellers were trying to pass them off as vintage....it was so obvious that they werent;);););) |
Love to add this one to my collection too....anybody seen one?
<a href="http://s193.photobucket.com/user/whynow357/media/jim%20brown121.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z157/whynow357/jim%20brown121.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo jim brown121.jpg"/></a> |
Is there no such thing as an original version of this Browns pennant? Or is there and someone just decided to reprint it?
I just picked that one up last week so I still have time to return it. Thought the price was too good...but a lot of people don't know what a pennant is worth so didn't worry too much about it. How about the one that came with it? For a reprint, the white one still seems relatively uncommon. I don't remember seeing one on eBay previously and there are none now. eBay item number:351942251790 Have to do a sold item search for it to come up. |
Also...When did the transition occur from soft felt to hard "felt"? I thought mid-60's seemed about right.
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Still weird that there aren't more of them floating around. I can't even get it to come up in a google search. Even if I include "1964" and or "reproduction" Others do come up...but not this one.
Don't doubt that it's modern...just surprised, like most modern reproductions, that there aren't a lot of them out there. |
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Great discussion! Awesome football pennants and Rob, those are fantastic NY and SF Giants pennants. Cool design. The SF version is super rare ...
I own and manage a team in a collegiate summer league, we are the South Jersey Giants, and our logo is a close variation of it ... |
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I think. :) |
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The example pictured above is definitely/significantly altered.
Mine is pictured below... I will probably be consigning this pennant to REA for their Spring Auction (along with quite a few others). Condition is EXMT+ with no notable flaws. If anyone is interested in making an offer, please reach out to me via email or PM. I will not be listing it on the BST. So (in the event it doesn't sell here) please be sure to look for it in the next REA. Thanks! Mark |
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Here is what I believe to be the original version of that particular Pirates Pennant. The felt is very soft, and the Pirate is color-shaded. Very rare version of an otherwise somewhat common pennant. This is actually the only color-shaded version I've seen.... |
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The font saying "Brooklyn" and "Dodgers" is identical to Ad Flag's "Sex Offender" Bum. Same for the font saying "Da Bums". But instead of showing the creepy sex offender mascot, it has a magnificent depiction of the Willard Mullin Bum inside of Ebbets Field. I always considered these Stadium versions to be of a higher caliber, in terms of their graphics and quality. So how could this "hybrid" pennant even exist? :confused: |
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Mark: great Ebbets pennant, I saw it on eBay. Surely one that isn't one of their typical uglies. That's the only AdFlag I've seen depicting a ballpark. They must have been making them for a long time, they have made A's and Browns, and have soft felt. And a few of them like your Pirates are in color. But they kept the same designs for many years, I have that same Pirates in gold and it is stiff like a 70s pennant. The Phillies Quaker pennant also comes in light blue stuff felt.
Here's another AdFlag Brooklyn version. |
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These might be early Ad Flags though I wouldn't wager it. Pennants like the top one have in common: felt (not cloth), single stitching at wide end, thick strip, and the tassels are thin and made of the same felt. Usually just one color print but some have multi color graphic that looks almost spray painted like my sex offender Dodger pennant. The STL "angry brownie" pennant is of this mold. |
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Well, I guess that after 843 posts and 105,000 views, this has morphed into an "Ugly Pennant Thread"...
That Giants Pennant is pretty horrendous, and looks like it was drawn by a semi-talented 3rd grader. His chest looks like it's made of ocean water, and why are there Xs on his socks? Here's another example of an artist that may have failed to make the cut with AdFlag. This is my nomination for worst vintage pennant/dumbest logo (but still better than the modern junk made today...) |
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Now time for the ugliest of the uglies, pretty sure this one is a very early AdFlag .... |
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I will go ahead now and post my favorite Phillies pennant, and one of my favorites in general ... this design was used on a yearbook one season, it is one of two Phillies Keezer pennants and just has a great 50s look to it.
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Thought I would join in on weird / ugly pennant -rama. It's a mini, but still pretty cool. Would love to find a full size version...
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Beautiful pennants, guys! Many times I have thought about buying a few baseball/football pennants from 50s and 60s. I really like the colors and logos! I remember being at the 2015 National and feeling blown away by some I saw for sale. Space to display or lack thereof has stopped me thus far. Do you all display all of yours or store them in some way?
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Can I get an Amen on this addition to the Ugly Pennant parade?
What was the maker thinking? What fan would have bought this? http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/a...pso6norl1x.jpg |
GREAT submission. That Yankees Pennant will be tough to beat.
I agree.... What fan would buy it? Especially with all the other beautiful Yankee Pennants around at the time :confused: |
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The six biggest mysteries of the universe, in order ...
6. Is there life on other planets? 5. Why do the Tigers have, by far, the most attractive looking vintage pennants? (No other team is close.) 4. Does God exist? 3. Does a Phillies stadium pennant exist? 2. Is there life after death? 1. Was the pennant artist immediately fired after designing this Joe D pennant? |
Regarding "The six biggest mysteries of the universe, in order ..."
I would attempt a reply to a few of those, but I'd be breaking the rules. :D So, I'll just say this about the #1 mystery: I hope he\she wasn't fired. I really like that pennant. Enjoyed your creative post! |
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I also think the Joe D Pennant is excellent.
Jerry Sage |
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Cut off Willie Mays pennant in original photo. |
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I have seen similar style pennants of Jackie, Larry Doby, Satchel Paige, and Luke Easter. Anyone know of others like these? They are very, very cool.
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Please forgive the intrusion into this awesome thread, but I am in the process of reading through it. I have about a year and a half to go, but I wanted to say what a mind-blowing thread this is! The quality of the vintage pennants, especially the colors and logos, is so incredible! The modern production stuff pales in comparison. I don't know how I have been in the hobby this long without having gone down this road. Frankly, I am a bit jealous. :D I have seen some really neat framed jobs so far. Do you frame your own? In most cases the frames look roomy enough so that it wouldn't be too hard to do. Please keep posting these beauties. I hope to purchase a few this year.
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LOVE (and wish I had) that Dodgers/Giants pennant from 1958. What a beauty!
I can certainly see why that's rare, but others remain a mystery. As for the White 1962 Giants Champs Pennant with the rivets.... the 1961 Reds version is one of the most plentiful on Ebay. I think there were 7 or 8 nice ones, last time I looked. So did they just make far fewer the following year (in '62?) http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1961...wAAOSwMtxXv2Hl There are (maybe) one of these Giants versions for every 100 Reds. :confused: |
The Reds and Giants pennants are attractive. I can see why you like them. I will be looking for St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Chargers when I start my pennant purchases. When it comes to pennants from say the '40s to the '60s, how picky are you guys regarding condition? Do you avoid pinholes, or are they acceptable? I realize large holes, rips, missing tips should be avoided when possible, but how fine do you generally get?
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Pin holes are acceptable and almost unavoidable in pennant collecting. As long as the holes aren't elongated or so numerous at the tip that it has practically disintegrated they are ok. There are pennants without them, but I would not pass up an otherwise nice pennant due to some small pin holes. Stains (large or obvious) and trimmed pennants are my personal no-no's with regard to pennant purchases.
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The grey pennant is not particularly attractive and is a variation of the one pictured below but I've seen it ONCE. :confused: |
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I feel about the same as Mike regarding condition. If the pinhole has extended (torn) all the way to the pennant's border, thus causing a slit, I am out.
The other deal-killer for me is ink writing on the pennant. I can't tell you how many more I would've bought, if not for some ink notation or former owners name written on the front. My eye is immediately drawn to that, rather than to the pennant itself. I can forgive writing on the back side, and pinholes are never an issue.... your searches would become nearly impossible if you can't look past those! :o Have fun, and best of luck! |
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This thread is always great to look through! I bought these four at an antique show in NH for a pretty good deal. They are in incredible condition and I wish they were full sized ones.
Alan |
Pin holes don't bother me. Missing tassels are fine by me. The tip is key for me. Missing tip is most likely a deal killer. Blunt/ripped tips annoy me too but depending on the scarcity of the pennant and degree of damage may be overlooked.
For very rare pennants I can overlook minor staining. Writing not so much. |
I prefer them as pristine as possible, purely for the potential resale value. At some point, even if it a willed donation after I take a dirt nap, I want them to be worth something. But since I am primarily into the decorative nature of the pennants, I forgive a few flaws. Tassels? Bottom pair missing ... okay. Top pair ... no shot. Just looks funny IMO. Even a blunted tip doesn't kill me. Stains and fading do.
Funny thing about the pennant tips, though ... absolutely convinced that sometimes, some of the 50s and 60s pennants where produced with a tip that was slightly squared. I have a '55 Dodger "crown" pennant that is a full 30" and barely fits in the holder, yet the tip is a little squared off. I'm certain they made it as such - not so much by design (i.e. deliberately), only that it came out of the factory that way. Which reminds me of someone currently selling a '59 White Sox picture "pennant" in eBay. That's how it is described. One tiny flaw, though ... it is missing the pennant! (Go look.) |
Yes, I agree....
Many of the vintage pennants were made with a blunt tip. I still have a few from childhood that are untouched, and know that they were made that way. The deal-killer for me is when the pennant was ripped off the wall, and the tip remained under the thumb tack. The tell-tale sign is a concave end and about an inch missing from the tip. You actually see this a lot... I guess when the kids moved out, their Moms had little regard for those pennants left behind. :( |
What about "off center" pennants? Not sure if they're common with baseball but I see quite a few with football. The graphic is closer to the bottom edge than the top or vice versa. I can never tell if it's a manufacturing error or if one edge was trimmed to create a false point at the tip. This is a deal killer for me because I never know if the pennant has been altered.
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I think the best way to tell if it is trimmed is when the angle of the tip corner seems too wide. That will happen unless it was trimmed all the way to the wide end, in which case the stitching will often reveal it. This all goes out the window if it is an Ad Flag pennant because they hired a 12 year old to cut the pennant sheets with scissors from art class.
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Mark, the flip side is when a pennant is too nice ... too pristine ... that's also scary. It can signal a big find somewhere. When my pennant addiction first started I was just getting 70s and 80s pennants. Then I went to a sale at Mitchell and Ness which is located near me in Philly ... bought a bunch of repros. But in the store they displayed (not for sale) some vintage pennants that just looked better. And then I got into eBay.
So anyway ... My first pre-'69 pennant was the Dodgers Orioles WS pennant from '66. I was so excited because it was flawless. What a deal I got. Then I saw another ... and another ... and another. Clearly someone had or found a box of them. Same thing with a batch of 60s 3/4 size football pennants, mints of these were once all over the place. That's why a little wear adds some chard and comfort. And please tell me that, like me, you smell them. Or at least tell me that I am not insane. |
That is funny. One of the first things I do when I add a pennant to my collection is smell it. I tell myself I'm doing it to make sure it doesn't smell like smoke but I actually like the "old pennant" smell. I think it's an artifact of my old card collecting days. I like the way old football cards smell. I still smell them from time to time when nobody is looking. LOL
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I've been known to smell a pennant or two as well. I guess I've been lucky and can't recall any that wreaked of smoke.
My biggest issue with pennants (especially from ebay) isn't smoke, but pet hair. Often the pennant will arrive with cat hair intertwined into the felt. I used to try to pick it out with my fingers or tweezers, but now just use scotch tape. Sometimes you take off a tiny bit of felt (actually more like peach fuzz) with the tape, but the process goes so much quicker. As for off-centering... yes, it bugs me too. I can usually detect alteration, but if its worse than "60/40" centering, I tend to pass on it (unless it's something I'll never see again). It's just too distracting otherwise. If a pennant has been cut/altered, the edge or border will look different in that area. Typically it will have a sharper looking or more squared-off cut. Natural vintage borders will typically have softer, more muted edges. Just another skill you acquire after 25 years of doing this... utterly useless to 99.9% of the population! |
Keezer Colt .45s Pennant
This listing was interesting, and reveals a bit about the manufacturing process, and available options, back in the day. The Keezer tag attached to the pennant provides some great insight...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-HOUSTON...vip=true&rt=nc Available "Finish" options included Keko-Knap and Kemco. This Colt .45s Pennant was "Kemco", whatever that is (I think it probably relates to the graphics portion). Available "Background" options included "All Wool Athletic Felt", "Wool Felt", "Cotton Felt", and "Tackle Twill". I believe Tackle Twill is what we often call the "Cloth" pennants (with the tightly compressed individual threads). This Colt .45s Pennant is Wool Felt, which is perhaps my favorite material for vintage pennants. Has anyone ever seen this Keezer variation before? This one is obviously a salesman's sample, and could well be a pennant that never even made it to market. Perhaps a one-of-a-kind prototype. I was the underbidder... Did anyone here win it? |
Wow I missed this one ... but yes, great insight. Zooming in it looks to me like a "cloth" pennant, i.e. the limp kind that frays on the edges with age (loose strands). The folds in the pennant suggest that, as does the stain on the top edge. Also you can tell the white strip is not felt, but kinda like the feel of a cotton dress shirt. Looks to me very similar in material and design to an Astros pennant I have here.
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I was watching that one, along with the Sallies, Newark Eagles and New York Yanks football pennant from the same seller. I got the Yanks. Wanted to bid on all four but controlled myself. I've got a wedding coming up and all the expenses that go along with it. ;)
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