Net54baseball.com Forums http://www.net54baseball.com This is a discussion forum powered by vBulletin. To find out about vBulletin, go to http://www.vbulletin.com/ . en Thu, 17 May 2012 21:25:53 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.net54baseball.com/images/misc/rss.jpg Net54baseball.com Forums http://www.net54baseball.com Cooperstown victim of Cooperstown Forger! New article http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151280&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 21:11:45 GMT Here's the link to the newest article on this emerging story.

http://whitebetsy.wordpress.com/2012...champion-1870/ ]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum okmaybent@aol.com http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151280 Fan Craze card identification help? http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151275&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 17:35:36 GMT Has anyone ever come across Fan Craze cards that look like this? A fellow collector friend of mine came across these and asked me to identify them. ... Has anyone ever come across Fan Craze cards that look like this? A fellow collector friend of mine came across these and asked me to identify them. Other than the American and National league set from 1906, I have not run into any other fan craze cards. Thanks in advance for the help.
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]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum jtschantz http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151275 Signed T201 Leifield from the Burdick Collection http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151274&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 17:13:10 GMT In my endless quest for all signed pre-war cards, I recently discovered a T201 Mecca double-folder that had been beautifully signed by its subject... In my endless quest for all signed pre-war cards, I recently discovered a T201 Mecca double-folder that had been beautifully signed by its subject “Lefty” Leifield. While I have come across a few of these in my endless searching – and already own one of the finest examples – this particular autographed T201 Leifield carries a very special provenance in addition to the player’s signature. Indeed, this particular tobacco card was once owned by none other than the Godfather of baseball cards himself, Jefferson Burdick. How do I know this? Because Mr. Burdick stamped his name right on the back – not once, but twice.



Even the most casual collector of vintage baseball cards knows who Jefferson Burdick is. That he was a trading and baseball card collector. That he cataloged his cards in the American Card Catalog (“ACC”), which is still used today. For instance, the T206 set received its name from its designation in the ACC. And Burdick’s collection is housed in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, where a small part of his collection is always on display in the American Wing.

Sadly a small amount of Burdick’s ultimate collection has fallen victim to theft. We sometimes see evidence of this when cards surface in the market with stamps identifying them as gifts of Burdick and property of the Met. Two such examples are set forth below:





However, despite the efforts of unscrupulous card thieves, there is no doubt that the bulk of Burdick’s enormous hoard is firmly a part of the Met’s permanent collection.

But, every card collector worth his salt knows that hoarding is only part of the fun. The moment you stop collecting may signal a final stage in the collecting journey – but what about all of those cards that your acquired and then sold or traded along the way? Are they any less part of your collection when the inevitable move comes? Collectors love to buy, sell and trade. And we know that Burdick was at least trading cards by the mid-1930s. In his first Card Collector’s Bulletin (“CCB”) on January 1, 1937, Burdick listed the first “Collectors Directory” of known card collectors. 15 of the earliest known collectors, including their specific collecting interests, was on page 1:



It is also well known that Burdick would share and trade cards with these collectors. For example, Lionel Carter received his 1933 Goudey Lajoie from Burdick when Burdick learned that Carter was unable to locate one for his collection. And many old-time collectors would stamp their names on the backs of their cards, oftentimes so that the cards would not get inadvertently comingled with the collections of others. Thus, a collector would send a stack of cards to another collector for a potential trade, without fear that he would not receive his untraded or unsold cards back.

It appears that Burdick did just that. As you can see on this broad array of vintage cardboard, Burdick routinely stamped his name on cards, whether the subjects were boxers, Olympians or great explorers.



Skeptics may say that anyone can stamp “J. Burdick” or “Jeff B.” on the back of a trade card. But the E80 Jack Johnson also contains an ornate “B”, which at least one reputable collector identified on the back of another card when he was researching Burdick’s collection at the Met. This “B” marker provides a significant anchor of provenance, for on the Johnson we also see the stamp “Jeff B.” which is also on the Sheppard and Leifield. And the Sheppard and Leifield also have the same “Jeff Burdick.” stamp, which is also on the Lockwood. There is little doubt that all of these cards come from the same collection, and that they were at one point in time a part of Jefferson Burdick’s active or less permanent, pre-donation collection.

Today a collector would be ill-advised to stamp his own name or initials on the back of his antique baseball cards. But consider that Burdick passed away in 1963, and that these cards have changed hands any number of times before and since. Burdick may have only held these cards in his possession for a brief period of time. But, because he stamped them, Burdick’s association with these cards endures for as long as they remain collectibles. We constantly celebrate Burdick’s legacy when we collect baseball cards. Because Burdick stamped these cards, we are able to feel a little closer to that history.

Turning to the Leifield, it may be suggested that Burdick was also interested in player autographs. But, given that he was much more a trade card and postcard collector than specifically a baseball card collector, I very much doubt that. What is much more likely is that he traded this Leifield to one of his fellow collectors, who in turn sought Leifield’s signature through the mail in the 1960s.

One exciting bit of coincidence is found at Collector No. 12 on Burdick’s CCB, where you will find the name John D. Wagner from Harrisburg, PA. As you can see, Burdick identified Wagner as a “General Collector” who was “Specializing in Baseball Subjects”. Wagner was one of the early pioneers of through-the-mail autographs on baseball cards. Even Jeff Morey, famed collector of autographed pre-war cards, notes that Wagner was “a bit my senior” and was “way above me for what he collected.” Some evidence that Wagner received autographs on pre-war cards through the mail is found with this small collection of Fred Snograss memorabilia, which includes a signed T206 card and a letter from Snodgrass to Wagner:







Wagner must have gotten his collection of cards to send to players from someone. It is not overly optimistic to suggest that some of the baseball cards that he sent to players were once a part of Burdick’s collection. The signed T201 Leifield with Burdick stamp might very well be one such example.

The travels of pre-war cards over the past 100 years is frequently boring. Collectors ironically celebrate most the cards that have been moved the least. Such are the cards that retain the sharpest corners and the whitest borders. And the hobby values the clean and unmoved cards more than those that have been sitting almost untouched while pressed in an album since 1911. Perhaps we have it backwards. This T201 Leifield may show evidence of wear, but within each crease and stain is found so much of the proud history of our hobby.

A copy of George Vrechek’s fantastic article about the Burdick stamp on the T218 Sheppard is available here:

http://www.oldbaseball.com/refs/Burd...shee_Cards.pdf ]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum T206Collector http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151274 Show and/or tell of your Casey Stengel stuff http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151270&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 15:11:07 GMT Casey is the subject of quite a few BB Trivia Q's ..........

Who is the only BB guy to ever wear all four NY team's uniforms ?

Who hit the 1st World Series HR in Yankee Stadium ?

Who hit the 1st HR in Ebbets Field ?

Who is the only BB player to tip his cap to the crowd and have a sparrow fly out of it ?


Anyhow, there are some rare cards of Casey; and, all kinds of stories regarding him....so, show or tell us of your's ?






TED Z ]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum tedzan http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151270 Kaptain Kirk Auction on Proxibid... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151269&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 13:42:07 GMT No pictures yet of the items, but a ton of Ruth, Gehrig autos...also 2 signed Clemente bats and a Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb signed bat (all on the same bat)... No pictures yet of the items, but a ton of Ruth, Gehrig autos...also 2 signed Clemente bats and a Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb signed bat (all on the same bat)
The fact that if someone had this collection, they would consign it with a place called Kaptain Kirks is laughable.
You would think with these listings, Proxibid would see all kinds of red flags...

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=52644

I'll be waiting patiently for pictures! ]]> Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports jgmp123 http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151269 Sgc pop report t206 backs http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151268&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 13:33:11 GMT Is there a way to get a list of the backs with a list of the graded players like PSA has or do you have to do it by individual players.(this is the... Is there a way to get a list of the backs with a list of the graded players like
PSA has or do you have to do it by individual players.(this is the only way i have found to do it). ]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum Pat R http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151268 To crack, or not to crack...ASA graded card... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151267&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 13:22:09 GMT Okay -

So I've owned this card for a while now. I was always nervous to hear what others thought of the card, whether it is legit or not. It is well documented (at least on this forum) that ASA graded cards are often times trimmed, but generally thought to be authentic.

So here's the question, should I crack it out before submitting to SGC, or should I leave it in the ASA holder? I'm leaning towards leaving it in, but w/ Zeenuts, there is always a very fine line between having it grade as SGC 10 vs. "A". In other words, will there be any bias by the card graders since it's being submitted in the ASA holder? And yes, I know it won't come back as a 20, 30, or 40...

Based on my untrained eye, it appears to have the right "un-couponed" dimensions to come back as a 10, but I just don't know...

Questions, comments, snide remarks?
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]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum h2oya311 http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151267 vintage sports memorabilia - nyc http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151266&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 13:21:07 GMT I'm gonna be in nyc this weekend for the reds v. mets / yankees series. Anyone know any good vintage shops up here?

Thanks ]]> Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum ballist68 http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151266 Most Legendary Players http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151264&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 08:10:38 GMT Who, in your opinion, are the ten most legendary players in the hobby? Meaning those who strode like true giants across the playing field, with... Who, in your opinion, are the ten most legendary players in the hobby?

Meaning those who strode like true giants across the playing field, with indomitable vigor, ready and able to conquer all?

And who, among these, has the most undervalued cards?

Thanks for your input, guys.

Best always,

Larry ]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum ls7plus http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151264 dodger ball opinions please http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151262&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 04:59:08 GMT Any opinion on whether these are real autographs or is this a ball sold at the park. Any opinion on whether these are real autographs or is this a ball sold at the park.
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]]> Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports toyman55 http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151262 19 May 2012 (Saturday) Kansas City Card Show Near MCI - Who is Going? Post-Game Beer? http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151252&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 02:19:25 GMT Roll call..... 19 May 2012 Kansas City Card Show: Embassy Suites KCI Airport Ambassador Room 7640 NW Tiffany Springs Pkwy Show hours 9am –... Roll call.....

19 May 2012 Kansas City Card Show:

Embassy Suites KCI Airport
Ambassador Room
7640 NW Tiffany Springs Pkwy

Show hours 9am – 4pm
Free Admission

Anyone going? I am setting up a few tables there. Looking to meet people on the boards...connect, network, camaraderie, sell, trade, post-game beverages? LMK. Meatloaf

Note: This is not my show; I am just attending, setting up a few tables, and getting the word out. ]]> Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) meatloaf http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151252 Ned Hanlon Signature? http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151251&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 01:59:09 GMT This evening I had a great conversation with Ned's grandson. He mentioned to me that he has been searching for a Hanlon signature but didn't know the rarity or if any are even for sale. Does anyone have a better handle on the Hanlon market than me? I'd love to pass the info along to the family. Thx.

I should add that I know the signature is incredibly rare, but I'm not quite sure of an approx value. (ie - $10k for a letter?) ]]> Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports canjond http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151251 Definition of Baseball Card http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151244&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 23:22:36 GMT So, what's you definition of a baseball card. Wikipedia says: A baseball card is a type of trading card relating to baseball, usually printed on some type of paper stock or card stock. A card will usually feature one or more baseball players or other baseball-related sports figures. Cards are most often found in the US but are also common in countries such as Canada, Cuba, and Japan, where professional leagues are present with a substantial fan base to support them. Some companies that are notable for making these cards are Topps, Upper Deck, Fleer, Donruss, Bowman (which is a descendent of Topps), and Playoff Contenders. Baseball cards can be highly collectible. Many antique stores contain a wide variety of baseball cards. One reason for baseball cards being collectible is that they have been around for a long time. Some baseball cards can be worth thousands of dollars.

I think this definition is incomplete. To me, a baseball card must be made from some kind of paper product, have an image relating to baseball, was produced as an enticement to purchase a product, advertise a product or specifically for collecting. I believe this definition eliminates pins and such along with post cards and other assorted images. Also, I believe that a baseball card, when produced, is not unique in that multiples of the same card were manufactured. Also, I think some part of the definition needs to include the fact that it was produced as a part of a larger set.

What do you think? ]]> Net54baseball Vintage Baseball Card Forum gorrister http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151244 1971-72 Milwaukee Bucks Program http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151243&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 22:50:52 GMT Anyone out there have a program from this year? Would be interested in buying as I saw a game in Oakland v. the Warriors that year, have that... Anyone out there have a program from this year? Would be interested in buying as I saw a game in Oakland v. the Warriors that year, have that program, and would like a home Bucks program to complement it since it's a good memory. Doesn't have to be the Warriors as opponent, just a Bucks program will do. Also interested, if anyone has the same Warriors-Bucks program I have as mine's been beaten up pretty badly. ]]> Hockey / Basketball / Tennis Cards Forum Aquifer http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151243 FS: Two signed 1920s Yankee baseballs http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151238&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 20:33:33 GMT In order to help finance my 1927 Yankees ball, I've put two signed balls up on eBay:

c.1927 Ruth/Gehrig signed barnstorming ball
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160803089082...84.m1555.l2649

1928 Yankees signed OAL baseball
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160801761324...84.m1555.l2649

Check 'em out!

(PM me if interested--perhaps we can work something out.) ]]> Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports David Atkatz http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=151238