Amazing find of unopened boxes (Star Player Candy, Tattoo orbits, many more) [Archive]

View Full Version : Amazing find of unopened boxes (Star Player Candy, Tattoo orbits, many more)

Archive

03-02-2009, 06:47 PM

Posted By: Art M.Not sure if anybody has posted about this recent find. Amazing pictures and article including unopened box and packs of Star Player candy cards including Walter Johnson (previously uncatalogued). Here is the link: <a href="http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest-sports-collecting-news/cache-of-1930s-unopened-wax-boxes-found.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/latest-sports-collecting-news/cache-of-1930s-unopened-wax-boxes-found.html</a>

Archive

03-02-2009, 06:55 PM

Posted By: dennisthis has to be the oldest "packs" find ever. thanks for posting.

Archive

03-02-2009, 06:57 PM

Posted By: Jim VBAs Jeff Prizner so eloquently says: "Dibs!"

Archive

03-02-2009, 07:12 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWhoa!

Archive

03-02-2009, 07:19 PM

Posted By: bruce Dorskind Once again Robert Edward Auctions has proven itself to be the premiere source for the super rare heretofore undiscovered and truly world class collectibles. When one goes back before World War II, it is remarkable to realize how many great finds can be attributed to the brilliant work of Sir Robert. With a staff of two, he outsmarts "larger dealers' with 30 or 40 people, manages to uncover a plethora of one of a kind collectibles and pays consignors in a a third of the time that his major competitors do. Congratulations to Robert and his latest history making acheivement Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

Archive

03-02-2009, 07:40 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanthat is amazing...reminds me of a candy distributor I used to go to as a kid when I visited my grandma on staten island. I'd buy unopened boxes of topps cards.and this was before you could just "buy unopened boxes of cards!"

Archive

03-02-2009, 08:10 PM

Posted By: Jantz Now thats an interesting find. I'll be curious to see some of the prices this stuff goes for. Brad Green is going to hit the floor when he sees those Lefty discs. Jantz Edited because I could hear my english teacher's voice yelling at me.

Archive

03-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Posted By: Jim VBI don't like the way you guys are lusting after my cards!

Archive

03-02-2009, 08:53 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanJust Wow... Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

Archive

03-02-2009, 10:47 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellI like how Rob is 'speechless', yet he finds the strength... Great stuff and a reason to keep going into attics. Bill

Archive

03-03-2009, 03:27 AM

Posted By: Rob D.Thanks a lot for outing this. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

Archive

03-03-2009, 03:46 AM

Posted By: Brad Green I am back up from "hitting the floor"... I call "dibs" on the Lefty Grove disks!

Archive

03-03-2009, 05:25 AM

Posted By: Jim VBBrad, Sorry. I had the first "dibs" post at 9:57 PM. I'll consider selleing you any dupes... Maybe.

Archive

03-03-2009, 05:35 AM

Posted By: ShawnIf you were to win "one" of the Babe Ruth Star Player cards still in the wrapper, would you leave it as is or would you take it out of the wrapper??? Can it be graded while sealed in this type of wrapper?

Archive

03-03-2009, 06:01 AM

Posted By: leonRob and I spoke about these a few days ago and they are truly great items. It's nice to see this kind of hoard in a somewhat pristine state. regards

Archive

03-03-2009, 06:22 AM

Posted By: Jeff Priznercool find... and congrats on the pickup Jim!!!

Archive

03-03-2009, 06:59 AM

Posted By: Jim VBThanks Jeff, At least someone understands "dibs". I'm thinking of reselling these before I actually own them, by listing them on several different boards, at different prices. As long as I have a couple of good business models, I might as well blend them together!

Archive

03-03-2009, 07:08 AM

Posted By: James FeaginIf I currently had a Star Player Candy Ruth in my possession, my first thought would be "Sell! Sell! Sell!" James

Archive

03-03-2009, 07:12 AM

Posted By: Dave F If I had four Ruth's...I'd keep one. I'd be tempted to open up the package and bust it loose too. If they've been valued at 20k, obviously putting four on the market is going to drop the value down some. I'm wondering what the previously unknown Johnson will go for?

Archive

03-03-2009, 07:23 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI'd have a hard time opening up one of those packages. And for what it's worth, the value of the Ruth in NM will surely go down due to the sudden influx into the market of these examples. As someone who loves the Star Player Candy issue, I'm not sure I've ever seen a cooler find. Has there ever been a find of cards inside a pack with gum from an earlier date?

Archive

03-03-2009, 07:38 AM

Posted By: Dan Bretta"The find will also clear up a misconception that the W553 set was a 'strip card' issue. The unopened find includes cards inside wrapped Marble Gum Novelties packs. They are likely the earliest sports card gum cards ever issued." What about Colgan's? They predate W553 by 20 years.

Archive

03-03-2009, 07:59 AM

Posted By: Marc S.what this is? <img src="http://s210975194.onlinehome.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/08424.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

Archive

03-03-2009, 08:08 AM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyPretty incredible find! The "Star Player Candy" find in this case is the set that we had been calling the 1929 Set (apparently it's a multi-sport issue by Dockman's), not the blank backed 1928 set, so the majority of "Star Player Candy" cards will see no price drop. This is what came in the "Double-Header" wrapper. The ones with #1 on bottom fit neatly into those with #2 on bottom to make a double sided "coin". I had only ever seen one or two of those wrappers prior to this. <img src="http://www.starsofthediamond.com/px3marberry.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.starsofthediamond.com/px3whitney.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> -Rhett

Archive

03-03-2009, 08:09 AM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyDan, don't forget about the G & B's. They pre-date the W553's by a little! -Rhett

Archive

03-03-2009, 08:29 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI didn't even think about the G&B issue...that adds another 20 years, so in actuality the W553 are predated by 40 years for the first gum issue.

Archive

03-03-2009, 08:30 AM

Posted By: David SmithIn the mid 1990's, I went to a paper show and was lucky enough to find 16 of the 1928 Star Player Candy cards for sale. The dealer said these cards were ones that his Father had bought as a child. I thought it was strange that among the 16 cards there were no duplicates. Now, if the cards were made by the same company and wrapped in the same type of packaging, I can understand why there were no dupes. (Sad part of the story, I didn't know what these cards were and had to go out to the car and look at my big SCD price guide to see if I could find what they were and if they were real or not. When I came back to buy the cards, the Ruth and Gehrig had been sold.) David

Archive

03-03-2009, 08:44 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanRhett, good point on the 29 v. 28 sets. But is "Dockman's" the same Dockman's of E92 fame?

Archive

03-03-2009, 08:47 AM

Posted By: leonIt is the same Dockman's from all we can tell. Rob and I matched up the candy that was found, and the type of printing, with his consignment and some Dockman's items I have and they match up very well. Those are a few of the ways we were able to verify they are the same "Dockman's". regards

Archive

03-03-2009, 09:54 AM

Posted By: PaulThis is truly amazing. A newly discovered Star Candy Johnson (issued in 1929? why?) The first ever discovery of Star Candy packaging, and association of the set with Dockman's. (Will the name of the set now be changed? Does the Star Candy name appear anywhere on the Dockman's box?) An entirely new set of cards with Lefty Grove (in at least two color variations, Brad). It's all just amazing. But the strangest thing to me is the claim that W553s are not strip cards. Maybe they were issued in both strip and factory cut forms. If none of them were issued as strips, it sure seems odd that children's scissors had a particular affinity for this set of cards.

Archive

03-03-2009, 09:58 AM

Posted By: leonI agree about the W553's and even told Rob that (handcut) ones are all over the place. I know I have seen a preponderance of them be handcut, including my type and many I have bought and sold. The W553's he has are NOT sports so maybe the sports were strips and the others weren't? It's an interesting situation. best regards

Archive

03-03-2009, 10:42 AM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyJust within the last year there were some W553's found in a scrapbook that were still in their vertical strips. So, this tends to indicate that they were probably available both ways -- as singles with a product (as in the REA find) and as strips. I believe someone here on the forum eventually came forward and admitted they had bought the strips from the ebay auction. -Rhett

Archive

03-03-2009, 10:42 AM

Posted By: Tom BoblittAny of those discs like the Grove and others? I've never seen anything like that. ODD that they wouldn't have appeared before now (if they haven't). Incredible find though. Absolutely incredible.

Archive

03-03-2009, 10:43 AM

Posted By: David SmithMaybe the Star Player Candy name was used for the 1928 set (baseball and football cards) and then changed for the 1929 set when additional subjects from other areas of interest were added? Another possibility, though probably quite small in this instance, is that the Star Player Candy box was damaged or thrown away and these cards were put into a Dockmans box. David

Archive

03-03-2009, 11:13 AM

Posted By: David SmithHere is the problem I have with Dockmans being the maker of Star Player Candy cards. If the Dockman Company was located in Baltimore and the Star Player Candy cards are so rare then how did the cards I bought in the 1990's originate from the Mid West? I mean, if an East Coast candy maker was having their cards distributed as far away as the Mid West then shouldn't there be MORE Star Player Candy cards available? In Issue 11 of the Old Cardboard Magazine, there is a story about Star Player Candy cards. Since I am the one who first brought to light the Buddy Myer card, I was asked by Mr. Hardeman if I could supply a photo of the card so it could be used in the story. While talking to him it came out that one person owns a majority of the cards pictured in the article. So, if that person owns over 50 of the cards, I own 16 and a fellow board member just sold 47 cards in a recent Heritage Auction then that would be less than 200 cards known. Add in cards that people have as a type card and you still don't have a lot of total known cards. Also, the article in Old Cardboard mentions the fact that there are NOT a lot of New York players represented in the set. Of the known subjects, 2/3's are of players from the American League. No NY Giants players are pictured while the Braves, Dodgers, Phillies and Pirates have only one player pictured. The Yankees, as would be expected, have nine players pictured. Meanwhile, there are 10 known subjects from the Chicago Cubs. Again, if this were a widely distributed set which was manufactured in Baltimore then WHY are there not more cards out there and why weren't there many New York players represented in the set? Even with this Dockman box being found, I still tend to think the Star Player Candy cards were a regional set made and sold in the Mid West. But that is just my opinion, so feel free to discuss/argue my point. David

Archive

03-03-2009, 11:14 AM

Posted By: leonI just received an email from Rob L with some additional info. I will cut and paste so as not to mangle the translation.... "Hi Leon! The 1929 Dockman's issue is entitled "Headliners" and features various subjects. The 1928 set features only baseball players. My theory: It is likely the header card advertised "Star Players", and probably read "Star Players and Gum" just like the 1929 issue header card reads "Headliners and Gum". I know it's impossible to know but I think this is very possible. I put a picture of the entire Dockman's box as it was displayed at the candy store on the REA blog." Sincerely, Rob L

Archive

03-03-2009, 11:44 AM

Posted By: David SmithQuestion; of the known football players in the 1928 set, are they of players from the East Coast or the Mid West? I don't know that much about football from that time period so I don't know if there were more "star" players playing in the East or Mid West, like there were in the late 1800's and early 1900's (Harvard, Yale) and which were pictured in the Mayo set. David P.S. - I ask so many questions and put forth so many off the wall ideas because this set really fascinates me. Sorry if it is too much or if it bothers others on the board.

Archive

03-03-2009, 12:01 PM

Posted By: Chris BlandThe 1929 Walter Johnson is new, but there has been a 1928 SPC Walter Johnson listed in SGC's population reports for some time - they list one graded, an SGC 10. I have never seen the card, so I am not sure if it uses the same pose as the '29. It is fascinating to see the packaging - I remember when I bought the group of 43 from an original collector, I was amazed that there were no duplicates - now I understand why. Also leads one to believe that there would be a higher population of Ruth's, Cobb's remaining since collectors could seemingly pick and choose who they wanted to buy. Awesome stuff...

Archive

03-03-2009, 12:10 PM

Posted By: David SmithChris, do you know what geographical area the collector you bought your cards from originally bought the cards? I ask because my cards originated from the Mid West and, if I remember correctly, the majority of the cards pictured in Issue 11 of the Old Cardboard Magazine article came from a collection that originated in the Mid West. Maybe Mr. Hardeman can confirm this. David Edited for spelling

Archive

03-03-2009, 12:16 PM

Posted By: David SmithOne last thing or question and I will sit back and be quiet for awhile. G & B cards are known as gum cards. Colgan's chips are known as gum cards. The first Dockman's are known as gum cards. The newly discovered box in the upcoming REA Auction says "headliners and GUM" on it but, for as long as they have been known, the cards in question have been called Star Player CANDY cards. Why are they called candy cards if they came with gum? The other cards (G & B, Colgan's, etc.) weren't labled that way. Just seems odd to me. David

Archive

03-03-2009, 12:21 PM

Posted By: James FeaginDo those Tattoo Orbit's house the R308 and not the R305 cards? To my understanding, the R305 series was not released with the "Pirate Ship" design and only in clear one-cent packages.

Archive

03-03-2009, 12:35 PM

Posted By: Mike LucianoI love all the new questions that this find has produced.It is like a good old fashion who done it.

Archive

03-03-2009, 03:00 PM

Posted By: PaulOne question I haven't seen posted yet: Were the 1929 non-baseball "Headliners and Gum" cards previously known?

Archive

03-03-2009, 03:09 PM

Posted By: JimmyReally incredible find, I have only been able to find unopened Diamond Stars and few Goudey packs. Great story and I will be watching the auction Jimmy

Archive

03-03-2009, 03:51 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanI can't wait to see what else Rob has in store for us! Any boxing perhaps <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

Archive

03-03-2009, 04:04 PM

Posted By: HalWOW!! I've been a lurker (and infrequent poster) on this board for several years, and this is the most amazing thing I've seen. Does anyone know if Old Cardboard will be running an article on this find? Congrats to Rob and I hope the auction goes well. Also, in addition to the above mentioned sets, E105's are also known as gum cards (though E223 of course has them all beat).

Archive

03-03-2009, 05:46 PM

Posted By: John K It looks like the Tattoo Orbits are Flags Of All Nations and not baseball? It looks like the Whiz Bang will be sold as a single unit and not broken up? The Orbits will most likely be sold in one box lots? The Star Player box will be sold in one lot? Does anyone know when the auction will be in on-line preview?

Archive

03-04-2009, 08:46 AM

Posted By: David MHere's another link with more photos of the "find" that was posted over on the non-sport board. <a href="http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/blog" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/blog</a>/

Archive

03-27-2009, 07:18 PM

Posted By: Brad Green I was perusing my Lefty Grove website looking for the appropriate place to put a scan and I came across the Lefty Grove "Glove Tag" that I have. I was told that it was a glove tag because it has staple holes in the middle. My "Glove Tag" is shown below. <img src="http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/miscell_files/glove_tag.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Now take a look at the Whiz Bank Boomerangs shown in the REA picture. <img src="http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/whizbangbox.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Does anybody else think that my "Glove Tag" is really a "Whiz Bang Boomerang"? I think an email to REA confirming what is on the back of the Whiz Bang Boomerangs is in order!

Archive

03-27-2009, 07:22 PM

Posted By: jay woltBrad - looks like a dead ringer Glad ya can finally identify the issue

Archive

03-27-2009, 08:28 PM

Posted By: Brad Green I received an email confirmation from Rob Lifson about 45 minutes ago indicating that my Grove "Glove Tag" is indeed a Fleer Whiz Bang Boomerang. Pictures of two of Rob's Grove Whiz Bangs are below. <img src="http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/whizbang_roblifson_small.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Archive

03-27-2009, 08:29 PM

Posted By: Brad Green Here are pictures of some of Rob's other Whiz Bangs... (Posted here with Rob's permission) <img src="http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/whizbang_all_small.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

Archive

03-27-2009, 08:32 PM

Posted By: Brad Green And one final post with Rob's permission... Here is Rob's catalog description of the Whiz Bangs. My Grove Whiz Bang is (at the moment) the only known Whiz Bang outside of Rob's new find. The description below explains that all of the Whiz Bangs have holes in the middle. Originally I thought the holes in my Grove Whiz Bang were staple holes, but it is more likely that they were used to launch the Whiz Bangs with a string. "Circa 1932 Frank H. Fleer Corp. "Whiz-Bang" Gum Box with 83 Cards Presented is what is perhaps the most remarkable and significant discovery of all the boxes and packs included in the extraordinary find of unopened gum boxes offered in this auction. This display box for Whiz-Bang Chewing Gum, issued by the Frank H. Fleer Corporation of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, is remarkable for its inclusion of a heretofore unknown card set featuring notable Major League stars and Hollywood celebrities. (The names "Whiz" and "Bang" appear, respectively, on either side of the label.) The set is of extraordinary quality. The premiums, which are circular in design (each 3 inches in diameter) with four triangular protrusions, feature portrait images of each subject with his name printed along the base (along with team or movie studio affiliation in most cases). A spiral pattern is printed on the reverse. Color variations exist for most of the cards offered here (orange, yellow, or green borders). A total of eighty-three premium cards, representing sixteen different stars (believed to be a complete set), are included in the box, all of which remain in pristine condition. The three baseball players in the set, all Hall of Famers (Grove, Hartnett, and Goslin) are represented by a total of only fifteen cards including duplicates. These cards have literally never been touched, and have remained in the confines of this original box, protected from all elements including light, since 1932. It is simply remarkable that this set has not been catalogued and has remained completely unknown until now, but that is exactly the case. The cards are all the more amazing due to their extraordinary high quality. These are extremely sturdy high-quality cards, beautifully produced with exceptionally high manufacturing standards. They are just great-looking cards. The eighty-three premium cards offered here represent the entire find. No cards have been removed. To the best of our knowledge, all known examples in the world are included here in this lot. The number of cards for each subject is noted in parentheses. The set includes the following: Warner Baxter (4), Ed Brendel (1), Joe E. Brown (2), Gary Cooper (12), Hoot Gibson (1), Goose Goslin (5), Lefty Grove (6), Gabby Hartnett (4), Buck Jones (9), Tom Keen (1), Ken Maynard (7), Wallace McDonald (12), Jack Oakie (6), George OBrien (4), Chief Thunderbird (4), and Ted Wells (5). While this is a previously unknown issue, we are fortunate that the box includes a manufacturers counter-display box insert that provides valuable information about these cards and their method of distribution. The gold-colored insert reads: Taka-Flyer! Real Bubble Gum 2 sticks 1 cent Boomerang Flyer Free with every White Stick Mr. Dealer. Sell gum 2 sticks for 1 cent. Give Boomerang Flyer to purchaser getting WHITE STICK. Packed 300 sticks 270 pink sticks 30 white sticks 30 Boomerang Flyers The only prize package giving purchaser 2 picks for 1 cent. The box houses eleven five-cent packs of Whiz-Bang Gum (identified on the packaging as Frank H. Fleer Corp. products, hence the attribution to Fleer). The center compartment contains 145 individual sticks of gum, each housed in a nondescript colored wrapper. As noted on the counter display insert, some of these individual gum sticks are white, and if selected by the customer it would entitle him or her to a free boomerang flyer. Also included in the box are a quantity of colored strings, which appear to have a function related to the flyer. While we cannot state with certainty, it appears that the string was used in some manner to launch the boomerang flyer. Each card has two very tiny factory-punched holes in the center, and the string was most likely threaded through the holes in a manner that would then help either propel or twirl the card in the air. Although the set is undated, the Lefty Grove card pictures him as a member of the Philadelphia As, which would define the cards as issued in 1933 at the latest (Groves last season with Philadelphia was in 1933, and the Philadelphia-based Fleer Corporation would not picture Grove in an incorrect uniform, let alone do so in such an elaborate high-quality production including such a relatively modest number of cards). The box (12.5 x 8.5 x 1 inches) has imperfections (including torn flaps and numerous tears) but the interior components are all in impeccable condition, looking just as they did when originally issued. Reserve $5,000. Estimate (open)."

Archive

03-27-2009, 10:04 PM

Posted By: JohnnyHBrad that is amazing ! What did you do when you saw the scan and realized what it probably was? What an incredible discovery. Are you going to take a loan so you can get the rest of the Groves ?

Archive

03-27-2009, 11:29 PM

Posted By: PaulWhat's even more amazing is that Brad has so many Lefty Grove items that he didn't even remember his "glove tag" when he first saw the Whiz Bangs.

Archive

03-28-2009, 12:22 AM

Posted By: Butch & Co.[ "While we cannot state with certainty, it appears that the string was used in some manner to launch the boomerang flyer." ] Har! You young whippersnappers. None 'o yas recognizes a whizzer when ya sees one? We make 'em at home outta restaurant drink coasters for our grandkids...

Archive

03-28-2009, 02:14 AM

Posted By: Brad Green Johnny: I could not believe my eyes when I saw the "glove tag", but I had a pretty good idea when I saw it that it was a Boomerang Flyer. I guess it was about the same feeling that a person gets when they first see a card listed on eBay that they've been looking for for 10 years. It's just an exciting feeling. Except in this case, I didn't have to wait 7 days to bid on it! As Beyonce says in her Cox commercials, it might be time for an "upgrade". Of course, I would need to go in within someone else to bring home the other Boomerangs. Anyone interested??? Paul: LOL! The "glove tag" was on the Miscellaneous page on my Grove website and is not a page that I go to often. That's a good reason to have everything documented with a scan. If I hadn't had a scan of it and didn't have it on my website, I might not have found the glove tag for many more years.

Archive

03-28-2009, 05:38 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBrad, it looks like you'll have 6 chances to upgrade!

Archive

03-28-2009, 04:45 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanto anyone obsessed over the ca. 1930-31 Exhibit PC back issues and related strip cards. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc