Bill Heitman's "The Monster" [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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03-12-2009, 04:45 AM

Posted By: ChiSoxFanI was rereading Bill's book and noticed this line ... "In addition, approximately 100 proof cards have been found which picture players and/or poses that are not part of the normal set." Under that is a picture of the Eddie Collins "proof". Being new to collecting the T206 cards, this is the only "proof" I've seen. Would like to see other "proof" cards. Thanks, ChiSoxFan Looking for T206 in Poor to Good condition.

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03-12-2009, 05:09 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanI believe this is not true?! There were a bunch of "proof" cards of previously unknown player/poses...that were sold at auction a few years ago. I believe Keith O has them...but nowhere near 100...I'm sure someone will provide a link for the auction when they sold. Stay tuned!

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03-12-2009, 06:44 AM

Posted By: MVSNYCit was 8 cards i think, sold thru Leland's about 7-8 years ago. i believe they were part of the Charlie Sheen Collection... Josh- can you please confirm? Thx! MS

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03-12-2009, 06:52 AM

Posted By: Kevin StrussThe "proof" cards that you refer to only included one unissued card - the Eddie Collins batting pose. I believe that these were found in the mid 1970's. There were also a group of T3 proofs in the collection. Mastro auctioned off eight other proof about ten years ago. I think that they were all Southern Leaguers. All were unissued cards and did not have names. Keith Olbermann did an article on the cards and I think ended up identifying all of the subjects.

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03-12-2009, 07:02 AM

Posted By: andy beckerkevin is correct. mastro auctioned the eight in 1999. the lot sold for 48k. however, i do not believe that those eight were from the t3 proof find. from what i have read, along with the t3 proofs that walked into the NYC show in the 70's were 400+ t206 proofs. vividly described as having blank backs and printer registration lines. i wonder where all those t206 proofs are???

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03-12-2009, 07:04 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHey there, ChiSoxFan, You'd get more relevant responses if you changed the title of the Original message so that it mentioned "T206 proofs". Just trying to help. FW

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03-12-2009, 07:17 AM

Posted By: Scott B. Found this on t206 museum <a href="http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_20.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_20.html</a>

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03-12-2009, 07:23 AM

Posted By: Kevin StrussAndy, You are correct, the eight proofs auctioned off my Mastro in 1999 were not from the mid 1970's "proof" find. The T3 proofs from the find still pop up here and there in the different auctions. The T206 Mathewson white cap from the find was auctioned off a year or so ago. Outside of the unissued Collins, I believe that this was the best T206 in the find.

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03-12-2009, 07:52 AM

Posted By: Marty OgelvieI would think that the fact that the Eddie Collins was NEVER produced would make the Proof card a super cool card to have.. is there ONLY 1 known example of this Eddie Collins proof?? marty

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03-12-2009, 08:08 AM

Posted By: andy beckerall proofs (t206 and t3) are unique. the collins wasn't an issued card. so the proof is the only example with that pose.

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03-12-2009, 08:11 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanthe matty is the white cap pose I believe...doesn't Leon own this? Not a unique pose. The only unique poses were Collins and the SL'ers if my memory serves me.

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03-12-2009, 08:31 AM

Posted By: leonI was able to snag this one in a private sale.....after it had been auctioned publicly. <img src="http://luckeycards.com/pt206mattyproofandregularx2.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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03-12-2009, 08:56 AM

Posted By: andy beckerif i was not clear, all proofs are unique.....not the pose...but unique in the sense that there is only one proof of each card. to my knowledge no duplicate proof has ever appeared. btw, that's an awesome matty leon!

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03-12-2009, 10:05 AM

Posted By: joeI did pick up my T3 Proof of Schmidt Detroit from Bill Mastro in the 80's at the Plymouth show in Michigan. Joe Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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03-12-2009, 11:05 AM

Posted By: Scott B. Not true, you can find multiple t206 proofs for the same pose. (e.g. with name, no name, lighter in color, darker in color etc)

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03-12-2009, 11:07 AM

Posted By: leonCan you provide proof of multiple proofs? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> I have not heard that before...

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03-12-2009, 03:20 PM

Posted By: RedOn a scale from 1 to 10 the story rates an 11. <a href="http://www.mastroauctions.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20 Information&LotIndex=9582" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.mastroauctions.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20 Information&LotIndex=9582</a>

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03-12-2009, 06:50 PM

Posted By: Scot Leon, Great Matty proof. I love to look for the subtle differences, such as fewer stripes on Matty's cap. * Another of my favorite proofs is Schulte (Front View) with "CHICAGO" on his shirt instead of "CUBS". Sorry, no photo. Keith O. wrote an article on T206 proofs in VCBC sometime around 1997. I highly recommend it. Scot

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03-12-2009, 07:04 PM

Posted By: Marc S.the T206 proof of Bransfield.

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03-13-2009, 10:38 AM

Posted By: andy beckerred, that's a great link thanks. mastro is contradicting themselves as this is copy and pasted from the 1999 auction of the eight SLers. in this lot description, mastro claims there are about 400 t206 proofs..... "The T206 tobacco card set has been avidly pursued since its inception in 1909. This first huge full color series has tormented collectors for 90 years but it has been accepted to be complete at 523 cards including the Doyle variation. It was speculated that there may have been a group of proofs produced of players and poses not seen in the cards actually inserted into packs or cataloged by collectors. About 25 years ago a gentlemen walked into a card show in New York and stunned those in attendance by producing about 400 T206 proof cards (blank backed with printers proof lines) and about 80 T3 proofs. Of that amazing group only one was of a player or pose not already known. It was of Eddie Collins in a pose not previously seen. That Collins card was sold about 5 years ago for an astronomical sum of money. This is a group of eight T206 proofs, each of which represents a player and pose not previously cataloged. Each is unique and each expands the known universe of T206 subjects by one. All are of Southern League players, judging from the uniforms shown on the players. They are definitely not from the group that emerged in New York. Those cards were all fresh and unhandled. This fabulous octet was treated like the vast majority of T206's that we see. Worn corners, creases and writing all appear indicating that the previous owners suspected nothing of the unique nature of the cards. Any one of these cards would individually make any collection of T206's one of a kind. A quantum increase of eight is monumental. While condition is not the overriding factor in the value of these solitary specimens we nevertheless present a report for posterity. Condition Report: (Starting from top left corner) - A Chatanooga batter with evenly rounded corners, solid VG-EX - A Danville pitcher in a home uniform in his windup, "Kline" is written in the lower border in pencil with tiny paper chipping loss, VG - A player reaching to make a catch in a road uniform with an "M" on the chest and hat (Macon or Memphis), with tack hole in upper border, GD-VG - A Jacksonville(?) player portrait in a home jersey, a crease across top and "Rath" written in bottom border in pencil and numbers scribbled in pencil on the back, GD - A player in a batting follow through in a road uniform with an "M" on the hat and jersey, corner creases and "Rougherty, Mil" written in the lower border in ink and "Rougherty" in pencil on the back, a crease runs diagonally from left to right (the owner misidentified the team),GD - A Jacksonville player portrait in a home jersey, VG-EX - A Chatanooga player in a batting pose with two creases and a small nip out of the lower left border, on the back is written "Alcock" in pencil with some scribbled numbers, GD-VG - A pitcher for Jacksonville in a road uniform with the name "Mullany" written in pencil in the bottom border, VG+ All cards are very conservatively graded, as a previously unseen lot they are eye popping and connoisseurs of early tobacco will immediately be taken with their rarity. One of the most significant finds in the history of our hobby. Never before have the subjects of a major set been increased by eight new additions simultaneously. This is not an obscure set. It has been analyzed, dissected cataloged and checklisted for 90 years. The addition of eight subjects is both startling and monumental. All are blank backed and all bear the printer's proof marks in each border marking them as genuine proofs. Don't bother to check a price guide, they can only be found here. Minimum Bid: $10,000 Final Bid including 15% buyer premium: $48,042 Additional Note: The eight players are: -- Alcock, Chattanooga -- Dwyer, Jacksonville -- Lee, Jacksonville -- Mayberry, Danville -- Meek, Chattanooga -- Osteen, Montgomery -- Pepe, Montgomery -- Roth, Jacksonville"

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03-13-2009, 01:50 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblittsome photos I had........ <center> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/PICKUP_PHOTOS/mattern.gif" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/PICKUP_PHOTOS/pastorius.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> </center>

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03-13-2009, 03:14 PM

Posted By: andy beckerwhy is it that some of the "proofs" have names and some don't? thoughts? it wouldn't be hard to take a blank back t206 and add some printer's registration marks.

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03-13-2009, 03:51 PM

Posted By: Dave HornishLook at the Pastorious without name-it is also missing the final color pass as the lines on his cap, etc are not on the nameless proof. I would think there would have been proofs for each color pass individually and then built up one-by-one versions exhibiting, 2, 3 ,4 5, 6 colors as things progressed. Then ones without the registration marks. Just a guess based on Topps' methods years later.