More bad news for Mastro [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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02-13-2009, 11:51 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaREA is likely expanding to two auctions per year. With Mastro's recent problems this just adds to the challenge they will have trying to attract consignors.

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02-13-2009, 11:57 AM

Posted By: Fred CDan, Can you do me a favor and tell me what problems Mastro is having? If I can avoid filtering through a huge threade it would be greatly appreciated. I read something about a cash flow problem or federal activity or some other things like that. Thanks!

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02-13-2009, 12:01 PM

Posted By: Joe D.I would enjoy an REA auction every month. I really like their auction.

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02-13-2009, 12:03 PM

Posted By: randthey are way behind in paying consignors. supposedly they may be just getting to the live auction people now, and have sent a letter saying it will be at least another week.

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02-13-2009, 12:13 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaFred, a few things... Fact: They are under federal investigation. Fact: They are having problems paying consignors. Rumor: They laid off 15-17 employees yesterday.

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02-13-2009, 12:15 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanFact: They've run out of that cool packing tape that always made me so happy.

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02-13-2009, 12:17 PM

Posted By: RobI think thats what makes REA so good though, is that they spend an entire year acquiring material and have a kick-@$$ auction. Would be tough, i think, to have such great material EVERY auction if they were to expand too much.

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02-13-2009, 12:21 PM

Posted By: MattThe email REA just sent said that the 2nd offering will probably start out as a smaller offering and not another huge one like the April offering. Here is the full text: "Having heard repeatedly during the past week numerous reports of serious economic issues at some auction houses, we thought it would be appropriate to send a quick note to our bidders and consignors to assure you that Robert Edward Auctions is rock solid financially, as always, and that interest in collecting is as great as ever. We have no cash flow problems, and no banking credit issues. In fact, as we have communicated many times in the past in our advertising literature, REA does not even have a line of credit. We dont need one. The hobby is healthy and collectors are very enthusiastic! The economy may have an impact on the prices of some items, that is a given (and as it should be), but interest in our auctions, both by bidders and consignors, is unprecedented. It would not be an exaggeration for us to say that, from our perspective, business is booming. While the flow of quality consignments is always uncertain and by nature feast or famine, it is clear to us that there is a far greater demand for our services than we can supply. We always tell consignors that our most valuable resource is our time. The way we do things, with uncompromising care, commitment to research, and attention to detail, there will always be a limit on exactly how much material we can process and therefore accept for auction. Thats why we always ask for material early. We could not do the quality job we insist on doing if everything came in at the last minute. It would be impossible. We will never compromise on the quality of our services, and if we have to turn down material for auction, were OK with this being the reason. We want to do a great job. In recent years it has become routine for us to have to politely decline to accept quality items because of timing. This has increasingly been the case even as we have cut back drastically on our advertising. This year we didnt even send out a direct mailing request for consignments, and you (as a person on our email list) may or may not have noticed that we have sent out just a few consignment request notices by email the entire year. The reason we havent been more aggressive with advertising is simply that we have been swamped all year. This tells us that maybe this is the time for us to consider expanding to two auctions per year. We dont know the exact details yet, because they have not been decided (we first have to get through the upcoming auction, which is going to press in a few weeks) but many collectors and dealers have suggested that we go to two auctions per year, and we are finally very seriously considering doing exactly that. We will send more details soon. Our vision may be to add a smaller second auction, as opposed to trying to create two auctions of equal size, with the idea that maybe over time the second auction will grow into an event as significant as the larger auction. Even if it does not, it will allow us to handle more material for more consignors, possibly allow us to attract some quality consignments that we would not otherwise get, and to provide a shorter time horizon for auction that is often desired by sellers. The goal is to allow us to provide an even more valuable service to the collecting community, while at the same time being careful and practical. At REA, we like what we do very much and want to be sure to keep the auction business fun for us! We will keep you posted and look forward to sending more details in the near future about this and about our upcoming auction, which may be our best ever! Sincerely, Robert Edward Auctions LLC" <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mwieder" rel="nofollow">My Trade/Sale Page</a>

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02-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Posted By: barrysloateOh my god, noooooo...not the packing tape! The other stuff I can deal with.

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02-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Posted By: traviswhen is the next REA auction actually????Thanks

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02-13-2009, 12:34 PM

Posted By: barrysloateIt usually closes around last week of April- May 1, give or take a few days.

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02-13-2009, 12:40 PM

Posted By: randwow, that was quite a letter. mastro has no comment, silence is not a good thing sometimes. i dont think the next mastro auction is going to get many consignors, if REA gets a 2nd auction in this year they will pick up a ton of that stuff. hmmmm

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02-13-2009, 12:41 PM

Posted By: Cat"Rumor: They laid off 15-17 employees yesterday." Is it just me, or do others think: why the hell did Mastro have 15 to 17 employees in the first place?

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02-13-2009, 12:43 PM

Posted By: barrysloateCat- they typically had about 40 employees. I always felt that was too many. But they don't consult with me.

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02-13-2009, 12:48 PM

Posted By: Fred CDan, Thanks!

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02-13-2009, 12:53 PM

Posted By: DJJust viewed the Classic Collector online. Never thought that a New York Yankees jersey "" to common player Stan Jefferson would ever be a lot for them. He did play 10 games for them in 1989. Or a Kelly Gruber Orioles jersey that was used his final season (during a comeback) where he didn't even play that season. Also, did they lay off those writing the descriptions? As far as the above issues at hand, are other auction houses facing similar issues? It seems like auction houses really don't like paying their consignors..or at least in a timely fashion. DJ

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02-13-2009, 01:12 PM

Posted By: Cat"Cat- they typically had about 40 employees. I always felt that was too many. But they don't consult with me." They should have consulted with you, but something tells me that it is to late now!

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02-13-2009, 01:17 PM

Posted By: Bob C. Thought I would chime in here. A certain significant collector with whom I have traded with for several years has decided to consign a large portion of his collection with Robert Edwards. Should be some interesting stuff coming up!

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02-13-2009, 01:23 PM

Posted By: ScottDangodoes he remind anyone of a young george steinbrenner ? maybe it just me? maybe its the white turtleneck....

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02-13-2009, 02:15 PM

Posted By: Phil GarryI just received my Mastro Classic Collector Auction catalogue in the mail today. Seems like a very weak offering compared to their past auctions, even the Classic Collector ones......

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02-13-2009, 08:17 PM

Posted By: Robert KlevensDear Robert, Mastro Auctions has processed consignor checks for your proceeds in the December 2008 Auction. Checks have been be mailed out and should arrive next week. Thank you so much for your patience. Walter Tomala Comptroller Mastro Auctions, Inc (630) 472-1200

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02-14-2009, 04:54 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanConsidering the fact that when you win a lot you can't get your cards until the check clears, why does it take months to 'process' consignors checks? It doesn't! It actually takes the same amount of time to 'process' the auction winners' checks as well. Mastro (and other auction houses that do this) are just taking interest free loans from their consignors. This is especially ironic considering how auctin houses profess to take care of consignors so well. Robert, if I were you I'd run that check to the bank. And I mean RUN!

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02-14-2009, 05:40 AM

Posted By: boxingcardmanI mentioned that Mastro was using consignors as short term financiers last year when a discussion of this situation arose, and raised some doubters' hackles. Seems I was more correct than I'd like to have been. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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02-14-2009, 06:02 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJeff....you are 100% correct about your statement in regards to auction houses holding the cash. Milehigh set a record of over 2 million dollars so if they do not pay cosignors for 30 to 60 days then the money can be earning interest with the cash. I had to basically get on the phone and raise holy hell to get paid after waiting for two months with no payment. These auction houses always have excuses and anyone who has intelligence knows it is BS. The two antique auction houses i deal with are major ones but i have a special contract that has a clause about payment, when the auction house is paid then i get paid. Most folks want their items right away and pay for the things as soon as the auction closes.

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02-14-2009, 06:41 AM

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind Rob Lifson is faster than the local Chinese restaurant. The last time we consigned a duplicate G&B gum card and Kalamazoo Bat card to his auction we were paid within a week after the auction closed While other firms have built massive infrastructures and focused on recycled material, Rob brings fresh material to the market. His item descriptions are museum class. Unlike some old time auctioneers who close auctions at their whim or who are so insecure that they don't deal with you because they think you are "out to get them," Rob is the consummate professional. Transparency, cash, and professionalism matters. Now, more than ever. If you are selling anything that has a value in excess of $5000, especially memorabilia, we think there are are only a few options. Robert Edward Auctions is far and away the preferred choice Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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02-14-2009, 06:45 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThat was a strange post. Sounds a little like you work for the company.

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02-14-2009, 06:47 AM

Posted By: James FeaginBefore I worked with Huggins & Scott as a writer, I consigned several items to them. I've always loved our policy of paying consignors. The day (heck, the minute) we get paid, the consignment check is made out and dispatched. It is a great policy that helped my decision to work with them. James

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02-14-2009, 06:57 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI must say Bill Huggins is hilarious and a good guy. I have never consigned with him but he sounded very cool when i spoke to him on the phone.

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02-14-2009, 09:03 AM

Posted By: David SmithI don't have ANY standing in this argument/discussion but I find it REALLY funny how it seems to takes SOOOOO long to get consignment checks out when, I am sure, SOME buyers pay for their auction wins by PayPal or wire/electronic transfer of funds. So, auction company A gets a cleared wire transfer of funds two days AFTER the auction ends and then PAYS that money out a month or two later. Am I correct about this? David

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02-14-2009, 09:06 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanYou are correct.

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02-14-2009, 11:17 AM

Posted By: Eric BI don't understand the point of holding consignor's checks in order to earn interest. It's just not that much. Using the $2 million previously mentioned, with interest at 3% (if you can get that) it comes to just $60,000 per year. So holding checks for 3 months (1/4 year) is just $15,000 income. Ticking consignor's off for $15,000 ????

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02-14-2009, 11:27 AM

Posted By: Bobby BinderI think everyone is assuming that the winning bidders are paying lightning fast and it just not be the case now a days. As well you have no idea when they do get paid and it you have multiple items in the auction and they are won by different bidders you have to wait for all of them to pay. As well you need to consider that Mastro has been giving money up front for a lot of the consignments interest free so that is another factor in the equation.

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02-14-2009, 11:56 AM

Posted By: JohnRob is a class act and when it comes to jaw dropers REA is the place to be...and in terms of customer service REA is tops! However I would also rate Sloate Auctions up there with REA in terms of customer service and speed Barry runs a nice auction where theres always some great stuff.

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02-14-2009, 11:58 AM

Posted By: barrysloateBobby made a good point that I was going to bring up. Say someone consigns twenty lots to me. It's likely that fifteen of them will be paid in the first week after the auction. But I have never done a single one where I am not chasing after late payers. As sure as the sun rises, two weeks after the sale there will still be eight or ten bidders who haven't even written their checks yet. So that will slow down the whole process. If someone consigns a single lot, and it is paid for quickly, I will pay the consignor in a more timely matter. However, it does sound like the troubles at Mastro go a little deeper than just waiting for bidder checks.

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02-14-2009, 12:10 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanYou are thinking too linearly on this issue. Holding consignor money 45 days isn't about banking the cash and earning interest, it is about using the funds as a short term source of funding so as to minimize the amount of use made of a credit line, which has a far higher cost than what the money could earn. Many of us do the same thing to Visa, MC and AMEX when we pay down the card every month. Now factor in Mastro's schedule of auctions--3 CC and 3 regular, spaced roughly evenly throughout the year and you have a large anticipated cash flow every two months (plus an extra here and there like the live auction at the National). Instead of living on the net left after an auction supplemented by credit they have to pay for until the next stream of revenue and escrowing the auction proceeds, my bet is that they used the consignor money as it came in for operating expenses, advances, etc., minimizing the cost of credit by taking a free short term loan from the consignors. It probably saved them several months a year in interest on several million dollars in short term loans. My hunch is that the hiccup this month was that a bank pulled a credit line unexpectedly, leaving them with no cash (they'd spent that first) and nowhere to get it to write the checks at the 45 day mark, until they freed up funds from elsewhere or arranged a new line of credit. I would not be surprised if the story about the wrong account was literally true--it was probably a sweep type account into which the credit line was dumped as needed to cover checks. No line = rubber checks. It's a nifty little scheme provided that the line of credit is there to cover the gaps. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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02-14-2009, 01:24 PM

Posted By: Eric BGreat response. You are likely correct. I was under the assumption that they wouldn't need a line of credit. that would mean they are a "house of cards", pardon the pun.

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02-14-2009, 02:38 PM

Posted By: Ted ShermanOne of my friends has a red sox store and the bank recently told him that his "inventory" could be used as collateral or assets. I guess it is the same type of thing.

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02-14-2009, 05:39 PM

Posted By: marty q rea- is as good as they come !! period. i second bruce d's comment's also. i have been to rob's house on a number of occasion's, he and his staff are simply fantastic, i have asked him on more than one conversation to do more auctions, i think this is great, i hope it works out for him. i have seen rob and his staff in action during auction time, not 1 lot is taken for granted, attention to research and authenticity is 100%. adam- that post was great!!! i agree 100%, your dead on i would bet. if that is true that mastro lost a line of credit i would think the legal pressure may be tightening. or it could be just a sign of the times, banks not willing to go the extra yard, but for a reputation like mastro's i doubt that is the reason. you wonder how much $$$$ this will cost mastro inc.?????

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02-15-2009, 04:03 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosNot to condemn nor praise Mastro, but... I've been running historic auctgraph auctions for about 17 years. We pay consignors 45 days after the close of the sale, with our option for an additional 15 days to collect outstanding balances before considering bids reneged. In other words, if a consignor sells $1000 worth of material, and $800 worth is paid for in 45 days, he gets $800 on the 45th day, and we endeavor to collect the additional $200 over the next 15 days. And we DO endeavor, short of sending an armed posse to kick the door in. The story about "floating" the money is really hogwash. The interst is negligible (I leave funds in a 1.5% checking account). Figure this: Sale closes, at least three days to invoice by email, additional 4-15 days (overseas) by USPS, and then wait, wait, wait for payment. And in this market, payment is S L O W! Now, that's not OUR fault, and it doesn't happen a lot, but it is increasing because collectors (like us) love our material but money is tight. Default rates haven't increased, but getting money on time is like pulling teeth. BUT!! For the same reasons I have trouble getting paid, I have to pay on time. My experience is that it is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL that we pay exactly on time. We installed new software ($30K) for our last sale, it went nuts, and consignor reports and checks went out five days late...and I was nearly crucified. I had to reach in my pocket, but we paid in full, everyone. But the surest way for an auctioneer to put himself out of business, in my opinion, is delay in payment to consignors. Advances and guarantees are the biggest problem. I wish Bill Mastro all the best - he has top-quality auctions, and is a sharp businessman.

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02-15-2009, 04:32 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanWhat is hogwash is the 45 day wait. When a consigonor buys the item he or she generally pays cash for the item because most folks do not even want a check. The consignor then has to find a auction house that is suitable for the highest return on the investment. Sometimes the auction will not be for 30 or 60 days due to advertising the sale. So basically what you are saying is a guy could buy a item put it in the auction which could be a month out and then have to wait 45 to 60 days for payment. My thoughts on that are good luck and you have no fear of ever getting any of my high end autographs. Auction houses should change their policies and payment should be made in 2 to 3 three weeks.

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02-15-2009, 04:36 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanTheoretically, there is no reason that consignment checks cannot go out the same day as the check clears paying for the lot. Both actions are dependent upon one thing: the lot winner's check clearing.

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02-15-2009, 04:46 PM

Posted By: Fred CI've got to agree with Jeff on this. Once the lot is paid for (and payment is clear) then the auction house should pay the consignor. There will be consignors that have multiple lots sold. In those cases at least get a good portion of the payments out and then the auction house can make a second payment after the late payers finally come through. It's like an act of good faith on the auction house to get the consignor some cash ASAP. Then there are those like me who don't mind waiting 30-45 days for payment. I figure the money's gonna get to me because I'd only consign with the auction houses that I trust. Perhaps somone with auction house experience can comment on their experiences. Do most bidders pay within two weeks? What percentage is paid within two, three and four week periods? What percentage of auctions have deadbeat bidders?

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02-15-2009, 04:49 PM

Posted By: Robert KlevensI actually consigned my lot at the National for their December auction. That was my poor decision. After waiting 5 months for the auction and 2 months more for my check I lost $1500 on my item. I know the winner of my item, and he paid quickly and received it already. Hopefully my check will arrive this week. I won an item in the December auction for $18,099. I sent a cashier's check the same day and received the item quickly.

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02-15-2009, 04:50 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanExactly. Send the lot and check on the day that the check for payment clears. Or maybe a couple days later? Why 45 days later? One reason: tax-free credit line.

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02-15-2009, 05:20 PM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- you still miss a point. That works if you consign one lot; what if you consign ten lots and each payment comes in a different day? How many consignment checks would you expect to receive? In that case you need to give the auction house the time to collect all the money before they pay you.

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02-15-2009, 05:36 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBut let's say lot 1 is paid for with good funds on a Tuesday; why can't the consignment check go out on Weds? And then the following week, three more lots clear -- why can't those consignment checks go out when those lots clear?

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02-15-2009, 05:41 PM

Posted By: barrysloateIf only one lot is involved and it is paid for quickly, I always try to get the check out ASAP. I do however feel it is a good policy to wait for the winning bidder to receive his lot before I disburse a check to the consignor, but it is not mandatory. But as in my example, if you consign ten lots and I get ten different checks that clear on ten different days, would you really expect that many checks sent to you? Wouldn't you more likely say just pay me at the end when all the money is in?

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02-15-2009, 05:45 PM

Posted By: Robert KlevensI consigned only 1 lot that sold for $1200. The buyer paid right away. I was told that Mastro gets a whole bunch of money in and then starts sending the consignment checks after 45 days. They don't send the consignment checks when the payment is received. I had some items in Seth's 19th Century Only auction and got my check very fast.

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02-15-2009, 05:48 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanBarry, I see your point and that makes sense. However, as someone who feeds his family based on the number of checks I receive I would prefer to get them as fast as possible even if one at a time. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> In all seriousness, I'd probably opt for half and half. And if 70% of my lots were paid for in 2 weeks, why should I have to wait 45 more days to get paid anything?

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02-15-2009, 05:49 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosNo offense, but...are you kidding??? Imagine the logistical headaches... My sales are about 1,800 lots and one hundred consignors. So, you suggest I print 1,800 checks, with 1,800 cover letters sent in 1,800 envelopes times 1,800 stamps? Please get real. If you need the money that desperately, sell on eBay. I pay for advertising, salaries, rent, pre-press, photography, shipping coming and going, printing, postage, electricity, and charge no interest on advances. And I don't charge interest to late-payers. If my sale does $1M and I get paid ALL of it the day after the auction, and hold it all for 45 days at 1.5% annually, I make all of $50,000 a year in interest, or a grand total of $1,111 over 45 days. Wow...

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02-15-2009, 05:50 PM

Posted By: Tom BoblittYou won an item and sold an item? Didn't they net out the difference? When I consigned a large lot with REA, I also won 3-4 lots and Rob netted the amount out and then paid me the difference minus the interest-free advance he'd given me.

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02-15-2009, 05:54 PM

Posted By: James FeaginI think communication is the key here. If consignors want to know the status of their checks, give them an honest assessment of what's going on. No need to write 1,800 checks. From my experience in the auction industry, consignors are actually very understanding if you treat them with respect....Late payers are a way of life.

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02-15-2009, 05:56 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanHey Bill, somehow you manage to handle the logistics of depositing those checks you receive one at a time. You're a smart guy, I suspect you could figure out a happy medium other than waiting 60 days to send out consignment checks.

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02-15-2009, 05:57 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosDidn't mean to go nuts, but I'm cataloging NOW rather than home eating dinner... Believe me, we mak eno money on float. And remember all of the material we have to BUY because of people we TRUSTED to pay for goods we shipped to them formerly great customers, who simply never pay and just take off. We eat it. It's not musch, but it makes that $1,100 disappear every sale, and more.

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02-15-2009, 05:59 PM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- I will often pay a consignor who consigns many lots twice- 50-60% very quickly and then the balance when all the funds are collected. Typically, 80-90% of the money comes in quickly. But there are a number of bidders in every auction who take 2-3 weeks before they even sit down to write a check, and I have to always chase them. It's just part of the process. Also, many consignors ask for substantial cash advances, often a few months before the auction close. Those people already have half their money, so I tend to send out the balance of their consignment a little slower. Everyone wants to get paid immediately, and I try to find a balance between timely payments and good business sense. If I have a lot of raw cards, say a large group of T206, I will not pay my consignor before the winner gets the lot. What if he calls me screaming I overgraded the cards, and I've already paid my consignor? Then I have a mess on my hands.

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02-15-2009, 05:59 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosJeff - Please read my posting again. We pay in TWO installments. The bulk, generally 90% of the sale, after 45 days, and we take another 15 days for the slowpokes to pay up, after which we issue a SECOND round of checks. So, if there are 100 consignors, we might issue 100 checks after 45 days, and maybe 20 checks after 60. OK?

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02-15-2009, 06:02 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosIf collectors paid me in 24 hours, Id be THRILLED to pay them in 48! But...it just doesn't happen, boys.

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02-15-2009, 06:03 PM

Posted By: James FeaginSince when has Mastro consignor policies been the standard bearer for the entire industry? The company I work for and most other auction houses I'm aware of send consignment checks in a very timely manner, most of the time in less than a week.

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02-15-2009, 06:03 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosAnd please forgive the typos...

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02-15-2009, 06:09 PM

Posted By: Bill Panagopulos"Since when has Mastro consignor policies been the standard bearer for the entire industry? The company I work for and most other auction houses I'm aware of send consignment checks in a very timely manner, most of the time in less than a week." Not possible. Maybe to a few customers, certainly not all. And having dealt with, literally over fifty auctions all over the world for many years, I'd like you to cite even one house that pays "in less than a week".

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02-15-2009, 06:10 PM

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind In this economy, the only viable operating philosophy is TRUST NO ONE DOUBLE CHECK EVERYONE The world changes dramatically in an hour or a day...45 days to pay consignors is unacceptable. We predict that any auction house that takes longer than 21 days after the close of an auction to pay will not survive.Of course, said auction house is only responsible for paying consignors for terms for which they have been paid. Bill's silly comment that "if you need money that fast go to E Bay" is inappropriate at best, and probably explains why his business is dwarfed by Robert Edward Auctions. Our guess is that Robert Edward, Heritage and Hunt will have a 85% of the memorabilia market except autograph balls, bats and uniforms) and that some of the longer payers will be forced into giving 50-75% down payments. Pre War high grade rare and valuable cards will be controlled by no more than six auction houses. The US Economy is certain to get far worse and remain weak for at least the next 30 months. Financial institutions, insurance companies and collectibles firm are going to start falling like flies. Times are far too difficult to trust any thinly capitalized auction house that will not guarantee payment within two-three weeks after the close of their auction. Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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02-15-2009, 06:12 PM

Posted By: James FeaginBill, Yes--I was referring to individual consignors.

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02-15-2009, 06:28 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosMy dear Mr. Dorskind: Thank you for your very professional advice. As a "management consultant", you should have done a little homework and checked us out: We don't sell baseball (well, maybe 20 lots out of 1,800) We don't sell cards We don't sell uniforms We don't sell bats Frankly, we hate the stuff. And there are people out there who are better qualified to authenticate it. We sell Lincoln, Washington, Hitler, and Mother Teresa. We sell Clara Barton and Josef Stalin. Ever heard of them? I see your specialty is "recruitment communications, international recruitment, and business development for the financial services, marketing communications and publishing industries", which you've done since 2000. I've been selling autographs since 1993. Stick to what you know.

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02-15-2009, 06:30 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosAnd you are correct. Trust no one. Especially financial advisors!

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02-15-2009, 06:44 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzThe Dorskind Group wishes they were as successful as you, Bill. For one thing, you're not working out of your apartment.

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02-15-2009, 06:51 PM

Posted By: Bill PanagopulosI'm not in a position to comment, and I regret that I sounded way to harsh. Apologies. The text of his posting sounded "shill"-like, but that's fine. I am a huge supporter of Rob Lifson and though we've never met, we've spoken several time on the phone regarding various forgers and bogus authenticators, and we, and many others, are actively working toward getting these crooks put away. Obviously we can't divulge details. Matter of fact, right after my posting, I got my usual stream of hate mail from the usual suspects. We run an honest auction. I'm no Rob Lifson nor do I want to be. Bless him for his strength. But I have a sterling reputation and I work hard to maintain it. Maybe that's why I jumped ugly. Again, sorry for my vitriole. It's late and I'm hungry.

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02-15-2009, 07:02 PM

Posted By: joeI agree with Bill and Barry, consignors are dreaming if they consign 10 items and expect multiple checks, 1 check after all payments are paid. Joe Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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02-15-2009, 08:01 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldEven though I have lots of dogs, none of 'em are in this fight. But I think I've learned a few things. 1. One reason auction folks group stuff into lots is so they have fewer lots to fool with, not because it will bring a higher price. Fewer lots mean fewer letters, shipments, payments... It reminds me of how real estate agents always say they're working for you, BS, they're working to get their commission, they want a sale. 2. A seller, if he wants money soon, might put just a few things in an auction at a time. The fewer lots, the sooner all winners are likely to have paid, the sooner the seller should get a check out. (See #4) 3. 45 days... that's BS. Where the auction guys are pointing out that they have the money for 45 days at most, not the whole year... go tell it to the cat. They hold proceeds from one auction 45 days or so, and then from the next auction 45 days or so, how many times do they do that in a year??? So it may be different money they're holding, but in a year they're holding money from multiple auctions a good part of the year, not just 45 days. 4. The last 2 guys I've sold stuff with was with Bill Goodwin and with Brockelman & Luckey. Neither outfit held the consignor's money, MY money, 45 days. Might be a reason to do business with those guys. And if these big great auction folks want business and are huffing and puffing about service, let 'em promise to cut a check in 15 days...

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02-15-2009, 08:16 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanBill.....let me say that i deal with two major auction house and i get paid as soon as the check clears. Do you want to know why? Because i negotiated it into the contract. You see my friend if you want great items from certain consignors then you have to be flexible. If you look at some of the last auctions from Cowans,Garths,Bonham & Butterfields you will see a slew of unsold items. BELIEVE me when i tell you that the 45 to 60 day wait for consignors is old news. Only the most shrewd auction houses will make it in these tough economic times and they will have to change their policies or shut the doors. A friend of mine recently sent a Abraham Lincoln autographed book which had several other sought after auotgraphs in it to auction at Pa Onsite and it sold for 33,000, he was paid within 7 working days.

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02-15-2009, 08:46 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanAs I count it, 45 days from December 8th is January 22nd. 45 days from December 18, 2008 was February 2nd. It is now February 15th and the consignors haven't seen their money yet. Mastro broke its own contractual term. All the rest is obfuscation. If Mastro was actually holding and accruing the proceeds for consignors, it could have covered the mistaken checks. Face reality, folks: Mastro uses your proceeds as a short term, interest-free loan. I also have to take issue with the idea that it "has to be that way" in terms of paper payments both directions. In this day and age of instant payments and electronic transfers there is no reason why paper checks have to fly back and forth EXCEPT that it allows the auctioneer to control chargebacks and payment times with no recourse for the buyer and seller. Heritage already allows credit cards, paypal and other e-payments; you mean to tell me that Mastro couldn't do the same? And funds could be readily transferred by paypal or by wire from auctioneer to consignor with far less effort than creating and mailing paper checks. And finally, the proof of the pudding is in the taste, so to speak: if the money has to be held to deal with all those nonperforming bidders, then why are the cards shipped out and being sold on Ebay long before the 45 day mark? How many of you have seen your cards on Ebay in dealer stores before you'd been paid by Mastro? Happened to me last time out. When I see dealers selling my stuff and making money on it I know my money is being used as a short term loan and not legitimately held. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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02-15-2009, 09:04 PM

Posted By: Fred CBarry, What percentage of bidders pay for their winnings in the first 2, 3 and 4 weeks after an auction is closed? How many dead beat bidders do you run into every auction? Thanks!

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02-15-2009, 09:51 PM

Posted By: Jerry Spillman Heritage Auction does take credit card payment but there is a $10K limit. They also issue a zero percent seller's consignment fee certificate (paper money - not sure of baseball cards) for a future auction with each item won.

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02-16-2009, 03:42 AM

Posted By: LetsGoBucs In terms of holding the money, the auction house benefits on two sides. The one discussed about getting 1-2% in a market money account. The one not discussed is that by using the customer's money to pay expenses they are avoiding the 5-6% (or more) on their credit line - their consignors money costs them nothing, the credit line has costs. Many companies aim to have cash to order process flows. Receive customer cash and pay your suppliers later. Dell is the best at it....they literally get paid, complete the final configuration of the computer, ship it to the customer, and 30 days after payment they pay many of their vendors. The vendors own all parts, paritially configured computers, etc until they are actually part of a finished product....then the payment clock starts ticking. If your a supplier to Dell you have to use credit lines (and incur those costs) to pay your labor, materials, overhead charges. Many small businesses are having credit lines revoked, especially those that existed with some of the large banks currently having difficulties. Honesty is the best policy, and it amazes me how many companies don't use that as their rule number one in terms of customer service.

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02-16-2009, 04:18 AM

Posted By: barrysloateFred- the majority of bidders in every auction are really good, as they want to get their winnings as soon as possible. I would say that the heaviest days of getting checks are 5-7 days after the close of the auction. Part of that is my getting the invoices out quickly, which I usually do the day after it closes. I would say by the two week point 90% of the payments are in. But I have never conducted an auction where everyone has paid by then. And then I begin the most arduous task of all, calling up the late payers and letting them know they are late and I need to pay consignors. The last two or three checks can easily arrive at the three week point or later. I hadn't had a reneger in several years, but in the last auction I did, and he was a real jerk. The lot was all of $250 and he bugged me after he won it to send him scans of all twenty cards (which I refused), then stiffed me for the cash. He's now banned, and I found out shortly thereafter that he had recently been banned from another auction. All that said, I have no more auctions planned and I'm not sure I will be doing any more. But you never know.

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02-16-2009, 05:23 AM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"I hadn't had a reneger in several years." Wow, that is pretty amazing when you consider that we constantly seem to see cards and lots from other auction houses that curiously never get paid for at auction. Sometimes dozens of lots at auction seemingly end up back on the market just days after an auction ends. Barry, you must have amazing luck! I always assumed that the other auction houses simply guaranteed certain prices to consignors and when they are not reached the lots simply went back to the consignors to be sold again -- leaving a false impression that the recently completed 'sales' actually were completed. Now I think it's just that you have good luck with your customers compared to the other auction houses.

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02-16-2009, 05:24 AM

Posted By: Matt"I have no more auctions planned and I'm not sure I will be doing any more." Say it ain't so! <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mwieder" rel="nofollow">My Trade/Sale Page</a>

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02-16-2009, 05:29 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI hear you Jeff...fact is I can go years with every lot being paid for, so when I hear about all these lots that set world records but were never paid for, I have to wrinkle an eyebrow too. That's what you get in an unregulated business. Matt- the simple answer is it's not too hard to put an auction together, anyone can do it. There is only one challenging aspect to it: getting consignments. And at this stage all the good stuff goes to the big houses. That is something I have never been able to change. So it may be time to find another venue. But like I said, I'll never shut the door on doing another.

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02-16-2009, 05:30 AM

Posted By: Fred CBarry, I'm not sure if this sounds right but, "say it aint so, Barry". Going through auction catalogs is a fun past time. I'll be looking forward to your next auction (that isn't on ebay). Hopefully it's sooner than later.

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02-16-2009, 05:37 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThanks Fred. I always said my catalogs make excellent bookmarks for REA's or Mastro's much larger ones.

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02-16-2009, 06:06 AM

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind Barry is a long time friend, and one the hobby's true gentleman. We have consigned a number of mid-priced items through the years. We were always paid within three weeks of the auction's close. Barry, as everyone knows, is easy to work with and a true professional. Whilst we believe he is correct in stating the most valuable cards and memorabilia will inevitably find their way to the large financially solid houses REA, Hunt (for memorabilia- Negro League and obscure card issues), and Heritage there is no better auction house for mid-grade 19th century and pre-WW II type cards then Barry Sloate He always had a passion for quality rather than quantity, and he always takes the time to review an item with a customer. Hopefully, he will come across the opportunity to obtain a collection which will change his mind. In the interim, we reiterate our prediction that there will be fewer auctions and fewer auction houses in 2009...and that there will be a significant change in the structure of payment between the auction houses and consignors. The market is clearly one where the consignor has a great deal of leverage. Good luck to Barry and here's to many great finds in the year ahead Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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02-16-2009, 06:11 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThanks Bruce.

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02-16-2009, 06:43 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanWere you two guys like lovers in a previous life? Talk about overkill. One thing i know to be fact is that people will buy cards at a auction house and then immediatly put them on e-bay or another auction to make money. I saw several of my cards sold while i waited for my consignor check.

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02-16-2009, 06:47 AM

Posted By: leonYour last comment towards Barry was uncalled for. He was only thanking Bruce for a compliment. I hope no one compliments me, or else, according to you, I might have to do unnatural acts with them?

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02-16-2009, 07:09 AM

Posted By: barrysloateIt's okay Leon- Marshall's erratic behavior and inappropriate comments are well known by now...water off a duck's back.

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02-16-2009, 07:12 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanTwo thoughts: Leon, comeon, not that there's anything wrong with that. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> And Marshall, I was speaking tongue in cheek. Urban legend has it that certain auction house(s) falsely report as sold certain lots when in fact the lots do not change hands due to either a promised price not being reached or the consignor simply protecting his lots by 'buying' them. Sometimes consignors use their close friends to bid and protect their lots. Sometimes they even use their employees. For example, if I had a bunch of expensive lots in an auction and I was a neurotic, dishonest jerkoff I might have my associate bid on my lots in an effort to set an artificial reserve price just so that I wouldn't lose a few dollars that I would not otherwise miss.

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02-16-2009, 07:22 AM

Posted By: leonI don't even.....well, never mind. But back to the topic...You certainly hit the nail on the head. I can't stand the shennanigans that go on in our hobby. If a consignor wants a reserve why is it so difficult just to have a reserve and it be known? As we spoke, if I go to sell some of my cards I am sure there won't be a market as strong as what I have paid due to the false bidding; that I am positive of. It kind of sucks. best regards

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02-16-2009, 07:41 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanLeon...i was just kidding around. Barry i meant no harm to you and everyone knows who you are and what you stand for. I just found Bruce's post sappy so i should have just said that. One thing is for sure is that when my cards were sold at Milehigh before i got paid the cards were for sale elsewhere and i will leave it at that. Here is a prime example of what kind of activity takes place at auction houses. Freeman's auction house just outside of Philadelphia recently sold 5 Faberge items. The estimates on each piece were from 1000 to 3500. I know one of the top 3 Faberge experts in the world and he said 100% the items were fake which i thought all along after handling the pieces, the hallmarks were not right and neither was the craftmanship. The top item sold for 650,000 and two of the others brought 100,000 plus. There could only be two reasons for this. 1.The Russians could possibly be laundering money because what a inventive way to launder 1,000,000, just consign a couple of fakes and then have two people bid the items up so that the money changes hands. 2. The consignor figured by establishing the prices that if they would run them through another auction a few years from now then the prices are set. These kind of activities go on all the time.

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02-16-2009, 07:46 AM

Posted By: leonno prob.... AND I agree the smoke and mirrors approach sucks. I probably shouldn't say this because I run an auction....but I don't like the fact that any auction house employees can bid in their own auctions. That's just my personal opinion. regards

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02-16-2009, 07:54 AM

Posted By: Rob D.What would be the harm in a law that would prevent the two or three major auction houses from getting the best consignments? Maybe they could be limited to having only so many items valued at $15,000 or more in an auction, and the rest of the high-profile items could be redistibuted to smaller auction houses, who would then auction them. After all, is it right that such a small percentage of houses continually get all the best stuff? Don't smaller auction houses and dealers deserve to make a living? Shouldn't the wealth in this hobby be spread around? Just asking.

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02-16-2009, 07:57 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI went to a auction the other day where the family was bidding against the public and also the auctioneer bid on several items. I thought to myself what in the hell is going here? So i thought you know this is just not right so everytime the auctioneer started to bid on a item instead of holding up my bid card i just yelled out yeah loud for the next bid, when the item got near the market value i dumped it on him. After three pieces of that going on he stopped bidding (lol). The auction took place in Virginia and when i went to settle my bill the auctioneer asked where i was from. He said he did not appreciate me running items on him in the sale and that he genuinely wanted the items.....Rigggghhhhttt i might have been born at night but it was not last night. I told him well the next time you decide to have a auction perhaps take yourself out of the game and do not bid, my belief is no auctioneer or employees should be allowed to bid on items in a sale.

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02-16-2009, 08:00 AM

Posted By: barrysloateHard to believe an auctioneer would actually say that to an active bidder. Live auctions really have some funky stuff going on. Part of the problem is everything moves so quickly, and most improprieties won't get noticed. Before you can blink you have to focus on the next lot on the block.

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02-16-2009, 08:04 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI think the problem with auction house shilling and things of that nature are simple. Everyone knows who the whales are what they buy, also when you see a card that three or four people need to bump their set registry average then that is when someone can be hammered. I only bid at live auctions where i can see what is going on and i never bid against a left bid,phone bid or internet bid. If you look at the above advertisemnt for Mears auction the first bullet point is No Shill Bidding!

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02-16-2009, 08:06 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanMarshall, fraud is obviously rampant in auction houses in general -- and in any unregulated business. As I've been crying about for years, in certain auction houses it's patently clear that items are run up by the house. I think if you cut off all ten fingers of certain acutioneers they'd use their toes to press that button on the computer to run up a price. You cut off their toes, they'd use their noses -- which are appropriately long enough to do the job due to all the lying they've done when loudly and publicly proclaiming that their auctions are clean. As for Rob, at last you're getting it, comrade. It's about time someone stood up for the little people. And before anyone claims what you're saying is socialism, I disagree: you're just advocating spreading the wealth around, that's all. Edited to add: yes, I need to find out who does Mears' marketing. Simply brilliant: no shill bidding. What a relief, I feel so much better. Does that rule apply to the 23,000 Mears' items in Mastro's latest auction? Because I've got a hankering for a 1990 NY Knicks Pete Meyers game used jersey and I need to know this before battling it out.

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02-16-2009, 08:13 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI'm getting ready to head to a auction today and this place just cracks me up. As soon as i hit the door this gal will spot me and start pointing out where all the rare items are in the sale-as if i could not find them myself- i already know that consignors put things in the sale hoping that myself and a few others will get into bidding wars on them. The last sale i just sat motionless as a painting sold for way under the money and there was so much tension it was sickening. The auctioneer looked my way several times while selling the painting and i just kept reading the Racing Form. Also everytime i bid on items people will bid against me because they feel the piece must be valueable which can get old. Now what i do is just have this old man that i know bid for me and i give him a few Yankee cards for doing it. He is 82 years old and just breathes pinstripes so for him to have a card of Whitey Ford or any other Yankee is heaven.

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02-16-2009, 08:20 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJeff you are cracking me up today. Let me say that there is about 20 auction houses within a 40 mile radious of where i live. Every one of those auction houses is unethical in some way or form. This one auctioneer before every sale starts out with bible versus and praising Jesus, he then states that the proceeds will help God's will and the family. The guy is such a con artist that it is sickening but i love the action and have gotten some bargains at his auction house.

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02-16-2009, 08:26 AM

Posted By: Jim VB"This one auctioneer before every sale starts out with bible versus and praising Jesus, he then states that the proceeds will help God's will and the family." It's fairly well known that Jesus was a big time collector of Koufax, Greenberg, and several other Jewish players. I'm sure I read that on this board, so it must be true.

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02-16-2009, 08:33 AM

Posted By: AlanYou mean that auctioneer is not Jewish ? <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">

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02-16-2009, 08:40 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanLet's just say he did not start the day with bagels and cream cheese.

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02-16-2009, 09:00 AM

Posted By: barrysloateIt's also been pointed out that when an ebay seller includes "god bless" in his item description, you know right there he is a con man. Marshall, you must find an auction to go to every day. Where do you live?

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02-16-2009, 09:05 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaMarshall, I know firsthand some of the complaints you are talking about with local auctions. I used to collect coins and would attend a regular coin auction. They had a guy who would bid the first bid on nearly every single lot and he made sure that gold/silver never went for less than the market value. I found out later that this guy had a gig on the radio with one of the auctioneers appraising items for callers...I saw a story on them in the newspaper. My brother was a much bigger buyer at local auctions than me...I generally only bid on items that I collect (Baseball)..but it got to the point that people would bid against him just because they figured it had to be worth something if he was bidding. I also have had occasion where someone would bid me up just because I was bidding on something so I started bidding on a few items I didn't really care for and then stuck them with it.

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02-16-2009, 09:15 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, Jesus was a big-time collector of cards of Jewish players. He often trolled the pre-1930s section on ebay and put in one simple word in his search: "JEWISH." That usually turned up plenty of great cards though sometimes he was misled into bidding on Moses Yellowhorse and Jerry Moses cards or even an occasional fake 'underprint' card. Yes, even 2000 years ago frauds existed.

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02-16-2009, 09:16 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanDan...the same thing happens here. What i do not understand is how come there are not laws in place against these type of things. If a auctioneer thought his license could be pulled then maybe he or she would think twice. In the state of Md you do not even need a license. I could rent out the local community center and throw a huge auction if i wanted to.

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02-16-2009, 09:22 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanBarry you are right, when i see a listing that says God bless or Christian owned and operated i know it is a farce. I am remodeling the downstairs bathroom so i have had guys come in and give me estimates, this one dude came in and started right off with the christian owned and operated gig and i immediatly showed him the door, he was stunned and i said oh well and just shut the door. I saw him talking to himself as he drove away. I never trust anyone who starts bringing religion into any business dealing right off the bat.

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02-16-2009, 11:49 PM

Posted By: AnonymousIm owed $15,000 and have been told 3 weeks in a row that the money is coming, wire problems, banking problems, etc etc. I wonder if thyer are waiting until thier current auction finishes until they can pay out to people from money that comes in. Not hijacking your thread, im new but usually post in non sport section.

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02-17-2009, 06:48 AM

Posted By: Ted ShermanAll my high bids are already outbid, looks like the FBI isnt scaring anyone <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 06:52 AM

Posted By: JasonLooks at all these liberals askin big brother to come in and regulate their hobby/industry. Big governmt I tells ya!

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02-17-2009, 08:12 AM

Posted By: D. C. MarkelI rarely post on this Forum, but about 5 months ago I posted a message venting my dismay with Mastro since I wanted to consign a big ticket item for their December 2008 auction and contacted them and I didn't receive a reply back until 3 weeks later. After not hearing from them for a week I decided to go with another major auction house for their December 2008 auction and was quite pleased with the final hammer value and have since been paid. In short, with all this nonsense going on, thanks Mastro for ignoring me. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 08:18 AM

Posted By: Andrew...when i see a listing that says God bless or Christian owned and operated i know it is a farce. I am remodeling the downstairs bathroom so i have had guys come in and give me estimates, this one dude came in and started right off with the christian owned and operated gig and i immediatly showed him the door, he was stunned and i said oh well and just shut the door. I saw him talking to himself as he drove away. I never trust anyone who starts bringing religion into any business dealing right off the bat. ________ Spot frickin on. Praise the Lord. "Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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02-17-2009, 08:22 AM

Posted By: Jim VBMan! I hope none of you guys live in the deep South! This was always one of my kids favorites! <a href="http://www.cbac.com/mission_purpose.aspx" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbac.com/mission_purpose.aspx</a>

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02-17-2009, 08:39 AM

Posted By: leonWhenever I go to get my car fixed I just pray I don't get hosed. Personally, I don't really care what the technician or company believes in, in their personal life as long as they fix my car problem. Praise the lord and pass the biscuits.

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02-17-2009, 08:41 AM

Posted By: Jim VBMe too, Leon. But these guys are in McKinney and Frisco, and every time we drive by, my kids crack up laughing.

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02-17-2009, 08:43 AM

Posted By: leonI have seen them too...I think they have a shop over on Midway and the George Bush Tollway too....I always thought it might just be their last name, but I guess not. I guess I could start a shop that is named "Jewish Fat Bald Guy Automotive"......

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02-17-2009, 08:44 AM

Posted By: Jodi BirkholmTwo things I REALLY wish I knew more about: cars and computers. Alas, my mind isn't geared towards the intricacies of the internal combustion engine or microprocessors. In life, finding an honest mechanic and affordable tech support are two of the best (and rarest) things that can happen to you.

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02-17-2009, 09:34 AM

Posted By: J.McMurry Well I guess I have two strikes against me, I am from the South, and I am a Christian,but I too am put off by people who use their religion as an advertising tool. The first thing that usually comes to mind is rip off,but you would be surprised at the number of little old ladies around here that allow that to influence what businesses they use. ps. Jesus would never get stuck with a fake card, because He could always make it real when no one was looking.

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02-17-2009, 09:45 AM

Posted By: Robert KlevensMy Mastro consignment check just arrived. I am off to the bank.

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02-17-2009, 11:50 AM

Posted By: boxingcardman"Well I guess I have two strikes against me, I am from the South, and I am a Christian" Now that's not fair; no one here has taken a pot-shot at being either from the South or an adherent of any faith. The comments have all been directed at people who try to use their professed faith as a business tool to convince customers that they are inherently more trustworthy, and the ironic reality that so many obvious ebay frauds try to paper over their scams with "God bless" or similar seemingly religious invocations. Let's shelve the "I'm a persecuted Christian Southerner" rap; none of that is happening here. Yes, many of us on the West Coast and East Coast would just as soon revisit the end of the Civil War and allow y'all to secede if you asked again; we'd even give you your hunk of the deficit as a lovely parting gift. But here, my friends, cards are what make the friendships, not regional or religious alignments. Heck, some of my closest friends here are Christian Southerners <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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02-17-2009, 11:55 AM

Posted By: Jim VBJody, I meant no offense, to either Southerners or Christians. After all, I'm a Catholic, living just outside of Dallas. I apologize if you you took my attempt at humor as an insult.

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02-17-2009, 12:10 PM

Posted By: JimCrandell"Many of us on the west coast and the east coast would just as soon revisit the end of the Civil War and allow y'all to secede if you asked again" Hmmm--I like Southeners--I can think of a lot more regions of the country I would like to get rid of than the south--after all--they are the only ones across the region to have the sense to vote for McCain.

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02-17-2009, 12:32 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaNO POLITICS.... And no religion too....

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02-17-2009, 12:32 PM

Posted By: J.McMurry No,No guys, My bad attempt at self deprecating humor based on other threads. Sorry bout that. I dislike the "persecuted Christian rap" as much as the "advertising I'm a Christian business" rap. In fact,I cant even stand rap. Sorry, no offense meant or taken.

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02-17-2009, 12:46 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinAt least they know exactly what coffee regular means <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> And Jim; I'm still waiting for your exclusive card or photo honoring the PSA HOF so I can have you included in my hobby collection <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Regards Rich

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02-17-2009, 12:50 PM

Posted By: barrysloateSo Jim, I guess you would have downtown Brooklyn wiped off the map...after all, we're all just a bunch of overeducated latte sippers. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 12:59 PM

Posted By: Jim VBBarry, For a variety of reasons, ALL of Brooklyn may be on the list... <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 01:04 PM

Posted By: Steve FI've been saying it for years and here it is... Montague Street, The Rodeo Drive of the East Coast!

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02-17-2009, 01:04 PM

Posted By: barrysloateBrooklyn's a pretty big place...I believe we would be the fourth largest city in the nation if we seceded from Manhattan. Steve- Montague Street is right up the block...I was there this morning.

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02-17-2009, 01:44 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, Yup--Brooklyn is on the list--in fact the only borough that is not on the list is Staten Island--you can also have Massachusetts, Vermont, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, DC, Illinois, Minnesota, Oregon and California. Jim

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02-17-2009, 01:46 PM

Posted By: barrysloateWhat do you think Jim...a civil war? Brooklyn vs. Staten Island? We'd whip them for sure. Are you going to join us for the Net54 dinner next week at the Brazilian Steakhouse?

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02-17-2009, 01:54 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, You probably would and then you would raise their marginal tax rates to 90 percent <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">. When is the dinner?

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02-17-2009, 01:57 PM

Posted By: barrysloateIt's next Tuesday at 6:00 PM, Fifth Avenue at 26th Street. I'd offer to pick up the tab but I haven't gotten my stimulus check yet.

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02-17-2009, 01:59 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, I will be in Texas/New Mexico for much of next week. Leon says if I take him out to a good enough dinner he will teach me about vintage cards. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 02:05 PM

Posted By: Jim VBHey! A Texas dinner is a great idea. We have way better steakhouses here!

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02-17-2009, 02:12 PM

Posted By: barrysloateWhoa pardner...we've got Peter Luger's...end of story! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Jim- we'll catch you next time.

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02-17-2009, 02:20 PM

Posted By: Rich KleinNeed an excuse to go to a good steakhouse <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Rich

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02-17-2009, 02:23 PM

Posted By: Jim VBBarry, Smith & Wollensky couldn't cut it here because of local competition. They gave up in less than 2 years. Edited to add: I lived in NYC for 15 years of my life. Worked in Brooklyn for 3 of them. (I still can't believe that Gage & Tollner is now a T.G.I. Fridays!) I don't recall seeing one cow or steer. Your steaks are being shipped in from here! (Maybe a few are coming from Dan Bretta country.)

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02-17-2009, 03:05 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThe Smith and Wollensky in Manhattan is quite good...Gage and Tollner has been gone awhile now.

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02-17-2009, 03:13 PM

Posted By: Jeff PriznerLuger's rules. And I live in TX.

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02-17-2009, 03:16 PM

Posted By: barrysloateThat's the spirit Jeff.

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02-17-2009, 03:27 PM

Posted By: LarryBarry- Byrne's Steak House in Tampa is very impressive, even w/ Peter Lugers being here!

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02-17-2009, 03:30 PM

Posted By: Richard MassonHungry Lion North Platte, Nebraska Steaks so big you need two plates.

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02-17-2009, 03:32 PM

Posted By: Jim VBUh, Jeff? You're missing the point. We're trying to get Leon (and maybe Jim C) to pony up for a Plano/Addison dinner! (And maybe, pick on Barry a little at the same time.)

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02-17-2009, 03:56 PM

Posted By: barrysloateYou can pick on me anytime. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 04:04 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI have to say I'm not a huge fan of Smith & Wollensky in Manhattan. Luger's is simply the finest steak on the planet. When in Manhattan I'd take the Palm first with Sparks second.

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02-17-2009, 04:06 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellJim, I am hosting a business dinner in Dallas this coming Monday but I will buy you a drink or two if you can find your way to the Mansion on Turtle Creek.

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02-17-2009, 04:14 PM

Posted By: Tom BoblittI don't think you'll get a stimulus check this time. It'll just show up as an addition $8 a week. For those in White Castle country, that means you go from a sack of 10 to a 'Crave Case' and no more......... We have this high fallutin steak house here in KY called the Longhorn.......not sure if Richard's palace in Versailles is near one...... For the uninitated....that's ver-sails, not ver-sigh

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02-17-2009, 04:28 PM

Posted By: Joe D."I have to say I'm not a huge fan of Smith & Wollensky in Manhattan. Luger's is simply the finest steak on the planet. When in Manhattan I'd take the Palm first with Sparks second." Jeff... the finest steaks on the planet are in Aruba. They get their beef from Argentina. I don't know what they feed the cows down there - - - but it makes for incredible steaks. I guess based on that - Argentina would have great steaks too, but I've never been there so I couldn't say.

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02-17-2009, 04:39 PM

Posted By: Joe D."What do you think Jim...a civil war? Brooklyn vs. Staten Island? We'd whip them for sure. " Hey now Barry... I don't know about that! I say we ask the criminal defense attorney for his expert opinion on this one. Whip Staten Island? fughettaboudit

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02-17-2009, 05:02 PM

Posted By: barrysloateStaten Island is a bunch of wusses. We can take you with one hand tied behind our backs! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> And back to steak: Argentina is 8000 miles away, and Peter Luger's is right off the BQE...and when am I going to the southern hemisphere?

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02-17-2009, 05:18 PM

Posted By: Jeff Prizneroh my bad Jim, in that case Bob's rules.

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02-17-2009, 05:20 PM

Posted By: marty q hey easy on staten island, my hometown for 37 years, now a jersey boy, and besides about 75 % of s.i. is from brooklyn..lol..

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02-17-2009, 05:21 PM

Posted By: leonHands down for me, it's Fogo de Cao.....Other than that maybe Ruth's Chris....

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02-17-2009, 05:25 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanThe best steak is the one I make at home. I pick the meat I like at the butchers, trim as needed, season and cook it just as I like it, and serve it the way I like it. I've stopped going to steak houses (and I've tried many in LA, NY, Vegas and several other cities) because I just don't care for their product as much as mine. But, I suppose for those of you who either don't have access to a grill or can't use it for months at a time due to inclement weather, a steak house will have to do. <img src="/images/sad.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="sad.gif"> Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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02-17-2009, 05:25 PM

Posted By: barrysloateBut Leon, you've never eaten at Luger's...so we will have to disqualify your vote.

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02-17-2009, 05:39 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanMarty brought up a good point: Most of SI is filled with ex-Brooklynites. However, much of SI is now filled with criminals who walked out of the Witness Protection Program. Very tough call...but I'd have to say that I'd take SI in a war with Brooklyn. Ten years ago my answer would have been different.

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02-17-2009, 05:48 PM

Posted By: Joe D.thank you Jeff - - - Barry is living in the past. Jeff - you are welcome to the island.

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02-17-2009, 06:06 PM

Posted By: Jim VBLeon, I love Fogo, but I'm never sure I can eat enough to get my money's worth. And then they have the nerve to tempt you with that outstanding salad bar. Like I would fall for that in an "all you can eat" restaurant.

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02-17-2009, 06:26 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI haven't given up yet Joe. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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02-17-2009, 07:05 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanThat is what i love about this board. A topic such as Mastro auctions ends up at the end in a debate over steak houses. The last time i was in Dallas the gentleman's club had a knockout steak and the service was out of this world (-:

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02-17-2009, 07:12 PM

Posted By: TONYThis thread started about Mastro.net Now we are onto dead cows & where to find such eateries Can we compare mastro.net to a dead cow!!

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02-17-2009, 07:16 PM

Posted By: Dan KotelesFlint Michigan has the only "DickMonalds" with a McSteak and a very special sauce....ya'll a coming this way ?

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02-17-2009, 07:32 PM

Posted By: Tony Andrea"D" - Now that's funny sh_t...... Tony A.

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02-17-2009, 07:45 PM

Posted By: Michael SteeleOn topic: Well, looks like Mastro is in some trouble. Off Topic: Jess and Jim's Steakhouse in Martin City, MO. Just south of KC. Heartland. Great dead cows. But nothing beats your own grill.

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02-17-2009, 09:29 PM

Posted By: Jodi BirkholmLeon, I'm all over Fogo! Been to the one in Dallas a couple of times. Just stay away from the drinks--$11 for a double gin and tonic?!?! And, as Jim mentioned, that salad bar is tempting. Best to smuggle a few of their patented "mozzarella eggs" out the door sequestered in a safe place. Eat 'em later.

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02-17-2009, 10:19 PM

Posted By: macboubeSorry, couldn't resist as the name does fit the thread. Mastro's (No relation to Bill Mastro) in Beverly Hills is the best steakhouse in the world. If you can get your face out of the Kansas City Bone-In for a few seconds and look up, you will feel as if you have died and gone to Cougar Heaven. Upstairs, in and around the bar on Weds - Thurs night, there is more silicon abounding than you'd find in a Dow Chemical plant. The place is unbelievably popular, 740 reservations on Valentine's Day......

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02-18-2009, 12:01 AM

Posted By: Anthony N.Joe- Argentina and southern Brazil had the best beef I've ever had anywhere. Whatever they feed then we need to import for our cows.

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02-18-2009, 07:42 AM

Posted By: mark s....is an incredible feat in itself! can't quite bring myself to dine at a mastro's, tho... am just absolutely convinced it would leave a very bad taste in my mouth... "there is more silicon abounding than you'd find in a Dow Chemical plant" i believe silicon is what one finds in the valley... SILICONE is what you would encounter in the peaks (or piques, depending upon your interest)!

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02-18-2009, 08:22 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAnyone ever been to the Angus Barn in North Carolina?

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02-18-2009, 08:27 AM

Posted By: J LevineLet me thrown in a couple... Hugo's in the basement of the 4 Queens in Vegas is really very good. Smitty's in Pasadena is also very good, esp. prime rib. Joshua

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02-18-2009, 08:28 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellI have been to most of the restaurants mentioned in this thread but there is none better than the Angus Barn outside of Raleigh. In fact, I am going there twice coming up--once for a business dinner in a couple of weeks and secondly for a pre-wedding party of someone I work with.

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02-18-2009, 08:29 AM

Posted By: Jodi BirkholmElliott's in Edison Park, IL is wonderful. The Lazy Doe, just a few minutes outside of Niehart, Montana (population 91) is also incredible, if a touch remote.

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02-18-2009, 08:41 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanJim, I agree. Angus Barn kicks ass. I haven't been there since 1989 but I just loved the place. It seats about 5000 people and is the size of a football field -- and the steaks are awesome.

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02-18-2009, 08:47 AM

Posted By: AlanThe steaks that Leon will have at the Net54 dinner will be the greatest !!! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">

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02-18-2009, 07:38 PM

Posted By: MikeUFor any Metro-Detroiters, I was very saddended to find out recently that Karl's Chop House has closed.

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02-18-2009, 07:51 PM

Posted By: Fred YAnybody know if Barney's Steak House in Chicago is still around? When you walked in they hollered "Two more Senator's"! Everybody was referred to as a "Senator". (It's probably fair to note that I was last there in 1953!)

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02-18-2009, 08:34 PM

Posted By: joeI was at Carl's Chophouse in Detroit about 1 1/2 years ago, there were not many customers, the Steak was good though. I worked right around the corner,next to Masonic Temple in the 60's, used to be a lot of nice restaurants in Detroit. Victor Lim's. Ponchatrain Wine Cellers, Joey's Stables, The Brass Rail etc. All closed now. The Roostertail is still in business on Jefferson, right on the river. Joe Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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02-20-2009, 09:32 AM

Posted By: Alan UI apologize if this is addressed somewhere else in this post, but if someone wins a lot in an auction and pays the auction house, but the consignor is not paid by the auction house, can the consignor legally go after the high bidder to get the item back? Is it considered some type of "stolen property" if they are not paid? Just wondering if there is any exposure as a bidder. -Alan

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02-20-2009, 09:38 AM

Posted By: MattHey Alan - I believe the answer above was that until the consignor gets paid, the item is legally his, which means the bidder is indeed exposed. The bidder would have to hire a lawyer and go after the house for his money, in line with all the other creditors of the house. <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mwieder" rel="nofollow">My Trade/Sale Page</a>

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02-20-2009, 09:44 AM

Posted By: Alan UThanks Matt

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02-20-2009, 09:53 AM

Posted By: Scott LevyTotally agree w/ Anthony. My wife and I visited Argentina a few years ago -- and even the most modest restaurants served incredible beef.

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02-20-2009, 11:42 AM

Posted By: Alan UThey probably supplement the feed with "boli"

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02-20-2009, 12:03 PM

Posted By: mark s.au contraire... it is american beef that has been "supplemented!" i suspect that the superior quality is, at least in part, due to natural & organically fed & developed cattle. tho i've not been there, i understand that argentines treat their beef industry similar to the french with their wine production... steeped in pride and history.

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02-20-2009, 12:07 PM

Posted By: Alan UMark, I agree as to the beef, just wanted to use "boli" in a sentence

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02-25-2009, 06:57 AM

Posted By: dan mckeeHuggins and Scott Auctions have sent me consignment checks very fast in the past. Also REA has been fast and I agree that Seth at 19th Century is on top of things as well. Huggins and Scott is a good alternative as they will take any items just about which covers some mid range stuff to the real goodies! Now I must agree with Adam once again!! The best steaks I ever have are the ones I grill myself at home after 2 days of marinating! <img src="" alt="<span">www.danmckee.com/pictures/types001.jpg>