OT:A-Rod Tested Positive for two Anabolic Steroids in 2003 [Archive]

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02-07-2009, 08:57 AM

Posted By: Erick LewinThis is so ridiculous. As a Yankee fan I am truly disgusted and fed up with baseball in general. I was a huge A-Rod Supporter and am a huge Yankees fan. I am so disgusted and angered at baseball in general now. Can we hear some friggin non-Yankee names for once??!! If they are (MLB) going to air all of their dirty laundry, can they include some laundry without pinstripes as well. I'm for knowing everyone who's guilty. But now we supposedly have another 104 player list out there and A-Rods the only name we hear? Just like that piece of **** Mitchell Report, which was so ridiculously NY biased. (But it doesn't have anything to do with Mitchell being a partial REDSOX owner right?) give me a break. Probably half of the big name Yankees since 1996 have had their reps ruined now. As a Yankee fan this is so disheatening and I am really fed up with baseball alltogether. Like I said if they're gonna name names at least do it fairly though. I'm sure there were just as manny friggin REDSAUX and players on other teams juicing!!! MANNY?PAPI?MOVaughn?Schilling?etc.....other teams...PUJOLS?, LUIS GONZALEZ? etc...-----Who knows, the list is huge and we will probably never even know half of all the guys who did it, and many of them will end up in the Hall of fame. E. Lewin

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02-07-2009, 09:00 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanErick, I don't think ARod was leaked just because he is a Yankee; it's because he's the best player in the game. About 15% of all players tested positive and who knows how many others evaded detection? Bonds tested positive four times! The fact is, the past 15 years of baseball should hereafter be known as "The Steroid Era" and that's that. No one player is sacred and no player is above this. Surely ARod's responses to questions about his steroid use clinches it for me: he made no denials. Pitiful. Too bad steroids couldn't help ARod get a hit with two men on and two out in a playoff game....

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02-07-2009, 09:04 AM

Posted By: brockErick, I agree with you 100%, thats why i think this report is false. It comes from two writers i never heard of and most of the time SI is wrong. And where is the other 103 players on the list. You know why because they made up all of the stuff, they say they confirmed it from 4 sources, so who are they. Also a-rod's number never jumped like Bonds did. He has always been good since day 1.

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02-07-2009, 09:06 AM

Posted By: Erick LewinJeff, I know. I understand that it's because he's the best player and I know that his name will be the first to leak. It's just frustrating though and they at least better name all the other players. I wonder what the players association will do. I was under the impression this was supposed to be an anonomous list, where players were never named? Now they are 6 years after the fact? I am just venting frustration. First there was the Mitchell report which named so many Yankees and Mets, dissproportionally. This is truly a sad day for all of baseball. E. Lewin

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02-07-2009, 09:08 AM

Posted By: Marty OgelvieSports Illustrated reported it, it must be true! what a joke.. who freaking reads SI anyway?

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02-07-2009, 09:08 AM

Posted By: HarrisonAlso I bit of random information. Kirk Radomski, the guy that leaked a lot of this information is from my town, Lindenhurst, NY and is my friends uncle..

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02-07-2009, 09:11 AM

Posted By: Erick LewinBrock, I certainly hope it's false, but am not counting on it. If it is these reporters need to be outed an have their reputations ruined as well. I agree too with his numbers. A-Rods first full season he hit .358 with 36 hrs, I think. He has always been great. I am really sick of these reports coming out where you don't hear who the sources are. These people need to put their names behind their reports like men or just keep their mouths closed, imo. E. Lewin

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02-07-2009, 09:18 AM

Posted By: macboubeDid you see that Bonds not only tested positve several times for ROIDS throughout his career, but as recently as 2005 or 2006 he tested positive for AMPHETAMINES! forget the asterisk, how 'bout just X-OUT. <img src="http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp327/macboube/bondsm2.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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02-07-2009, 09:33 AM

Posted By: Brian Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

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02-07-2009, 09:46 AM

Posted By: Richard Simon "When approached by an SI reporter on Thursday at a gym in Miami, Rodriguez declined to discuss his 2003 test results. "You'll have to talk to the union," said Rodriguez, the Yankees' third baseman since his trade to New York in February 2004. When asked if there was an explanation for his positive test, he said, "I'm not saying anything."" -- If that is not an admission of guilt, then I don't know what is. I applaud innocent until proven guilty,, but in this case it sure seems like guilty. -- I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

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02-07-2009, 09:58 AM

Posted By: JDRUMDoes anyone really find any of this surprising anymore?

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02-07-2009, 10:19 AM

Posted By: John K Jeff, the figure is 11.5% tested positive. As a Red Sox fan, I also would like to know the other 103 who were dirty. No Hall of Fame for Alex. No records for Alex. No listing him as one of the top ten players of all time. Period! Alex could take that EASY swing, meet the ball, and still hit a (phony) homer. Unfair advantage. Unfair to Ruth, Hank, Ted, Foxx . . . etc.

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02-07-2009, 10:24 AM

Posted By: dennisthe great a-rod a cheat? say it ain,t so! for the super star ball-player in the 2000s, the top of the heap is your contract is about to end so you say you would like to resign with your home team. of course you put up (steroid aided?) big numbers and hire the greediest agent you can find to represent you. after a big offer from your team(that would assure them of not being able to field a major league level team for the next 5 years)but wait, then the yankees swope in and offer you a contract that no other team can match (see giambi,clemens,arod and the 3 new comers this year)and make the contract for 4 or 5 years. the win at all cost yankee mantra to hell with baseball fans . yet they still can't win with this cast of mercenaries!! what would surprise me is if there was a member of the yankees that didn't test positive for enhancement drugs! then write taat in sports illustrated,and put it on the cover. hey mannys still out there wouldnt he look good in the pinstripes???

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02-07-2009, 10:29 AM

Posted By: brockDennis, His stats have been the same since day 1. They never jumped like bonds or went down like Jason's. And maybe Manny's name will be one of the 104 names on the list.

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02-07-2009, 10:34 AM

Posted By: DonThe comissioner needs to make a Landis type pronouncement. "Regardless of the outcome of the juries, no player that uses performance enhancing drugs, no player that sits in a conference with a bunch of crooked players where performance enhancing drugs are used, and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever again play professional baseball." They should also remove all known players from the MLB record books.

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02-07-2009, 10:38 AM

Posted By: macboubeManRam was and will be a Dodger...............we'll take him positive or negative.

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02-07-2009, 10:42 AM

Posted By: Joe D.just like the book says..... A-Fraud

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02-07-2009, 10:57 AM

Posted By: Michael SteeleA-Fraud....But he has plenty of company.

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02-07-2009, 12:20 PM

Posted By: RichieWell A-fraud or A-Roid you choose. Who will be next on this so called list.

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02-07-2009, 12:25 PM

Posted By: barrysloateLet's face it- for a period of time taking steroids became a way of life for many major league ballplayers. There was a veil of silence among all major leaguers, even the ones that didn't inject themselves. The best players in baseball typically hit between 40 and 50 home runs in a great season. That was the norm up until the late 90's, and it is the norm today. But for about a 5-6 year period 40-50 became 60-70 for a host of the game's sluggers. And they all became unusually large and muscular at the same time. And nobody said a word. The records from the late 90's until the steroid fiasco was uncovered should be stricken from the books. They shouldn't count. We'll see how this all unfolds over the next couple of years.

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02-07-2009, 01:15 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanThe records will never be stricken even though they should. Remember, baseball is a business first. How do you think Hank Aaron feels? First that cheater Bonds breaks his record and now A-Roid will break it next? Disgraceful.

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02-07-2009, 01:27 PM

Posted By: cn It can,t be true! Alex told Katie Couric on 60 Minutes that he would never use Steroids. What a loser he is. All that money and he will never be happy.CN

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02-07-2009, 01:39 PM

Posted By: RhysThe saddest part of the whole deal is that he was at his best as an all around player when he was a young skinny kid playing for Seattle. As a Yankee hater all I can say is that if you play the kind of game the Yankees do you get the backlash. People go after the Yankees on stories like this because the Yankees have made themselves the headline. They have made their own bed and now they need to sleep in it. As to there being the same amount of roid users on other teams as the Yankees, I highly doubt it. They sign all the overpaid free agents after their banner years so I would bet they (and probably the Sox as well) have a very disproportionate amount of roid users on their rosters. I would bet there is a direct correlation between payroll and steroid use and if so, the Yankees would have the most roid users by far.

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02-07-2009, 01:44 PM

Posted By: Brian T.I couldn't help but have a selfish smirk on my face when I read this news today. The reason is that my last big A-Rod rookie card sold on eBay yesterday. I am in the process of selling off all my shiny stuff anyway as I wade into vintage, but my high end ARod RC collection was easily the cornerstone of the collection. Anyway, the timing of this report worked out extremely well for me personally. It is pretty unlikely that any personal information about pre-war guys will come out and have a detrimental effect on their card values. That pleases me.

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02-07-2009, 01:52 PM

Posted By: AnonymousSad day for Baseball. I really did think he was one of the good guys. Just by his answer it says he is Guilty!

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02-07-2009, 01:58 PM

Posted By: John K I assume you refer to the Red Sox as signing overpaid free agents who are roid users. Outside of Manny, who are you talking about?

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02-07-2009, 02:53 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzDid you see Selig's salary last year? $17M, I think it was. And that money comes from the owners. Think he's gonna ban their stars?

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02-08-2009, 07:09 AM

Posted By: D. C. Markel Shortly after the Super Bowl post-game show ended on NBC last Sunday night, I switched over to ESPN to watch their post-game show. One comment that jumped out at me was by Chris Berman who made the definitive statement, ".....that football is now America's Pastime". After thinking about it a while, I had to agree; and it's nonsense like this and the awful leadership of Bud Selig that has allowed baseball to relinquish that title.

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02-08-2009, 07:31 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanCan anyone explain to me why ARod should not be lumped in with Bonds, McGwire, Raffy and Sosa when it comes to the HOF? I say keep them all out.

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02-08-2009, 07:34 AM

Posted By: JDRUMto all positions, add Clemens to your list.

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02-08-2009, 07:36 AM

Posted By: Patrick McHughThis should come as no shock. The amount of anabolic use in all and I mean all sports is higher than you would want to know. Very few baseball players from any era have the talent to put up big numbers. The last 20 years big numbers have become the norm for far to many players. Not only in baseball but in all sports. One only needs to go back 50 years and look at world records in olympic events and than see that these times distances etc are matched or beaten by almost every competitor in todays events. The excuse always used is better scientific training, better food etc. Translation better drugs and more of them.

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02-08-2009, 07:38 AM

Posted By: Don"Shortly after the Super Bowl post-game show ended on NBC last Sunday night, I switched over to ESPN to watch their post-game show. One comment that jumped out at me was by Chris Berman who made the definitive statement, ".....that football is now America's Pastime". After thinking about it a while, I had to agree; and it's nonsense like this and the awful leadership of Bud Selig that has allowed baseball to relinquish that title." Football passed baseball in the mid 70's.

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02-08-2009, 07:44 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanWoops, Jeff, forgot him. Put him at the top of the list of steroid cheaters.

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02-08-2009, 10:09 AM

Posted By: PCThe Yankees are not being singled out here. The Mitchell report names plenty of players who are not Yankees. I read the complete report, including all the annexes. It is fair on its face, and would be more comprehensive if players and teams actually cooperated (which they did not do). Two of the primary sources of info worked for the NY teams, so it stands to reason that the Yanks and Mets get mentioned, perhaps more than other teams, but I don't think any one team is being targeted. Some of the most interesting material in the report involves the Red Sox. Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, Sosa ... plenty of non-Yankees are in the spotlight. And some who were Yankees, like Clemens and Giambi, have usage tied to other teams. I wish it was only a few players, and one or two teams, but unfortunately it's a league-wide issue.

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02-08-2009, 11:55 AM

Posted By: E, DanielFunnily enough, of Americas favourite sports it is probably Basketball and its ego maniacs that is least likely to be filled with steroid users.....being an endurance - stringy-muscles sport, as opposed to burst, fast-muscle-twitch high muscles mass exponents favoured in football and baseball. Maybe an opportunity with the right commissioner in charge to remake Basketball's image as a clean all-american game??? Anyone got a 48' Mikan they want to part with?

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02-08-2009, 12:04 PM

Posted By: brockJeff, You just hate A-rod period. How is he at the top, maybe next week he will come out and say that he did. Did Bonds ever do that, Bonds took steroids for most of his career while right now we only know that A-Rod MAY HAVE taken steroids for one season. So i would say A-rod would be at the bottom of that list.

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02-08-2009, 12:17 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI don't particularly hate ARod. Clemens, on the other hand, I despise. I hope ARod comes clean but based on his history of immaturity, selfishness and shallowness of personality I expect him to stick his head in the sand. Or do whatever his many handlers or a focus group tells him.

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02-08-2009, 12:29 PM

Posted By: Anthony S.No Brock, Bonds didn't take steroids for most of his career. All the witnesses/reports have said that he started using right around 1999 or 2000 at the age of 35. Did he break McGwire's single season and Aaron's career record for homers due to steroids? Without a doubt. But he he was called up to the Majors in 1986 and was a 3 time MVP and first ballot HOFer before he ever went the 'roid route. Anyway you slice it, Bonds was and is a first class pill, he makes a great villain, but with all masking agents out there and the financial and egotistical incentives to use steroids, the notion that ARod probably just used that one year and has compiled his surreal statistics on talent alone is pretty far-fetched.

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02-08-2009, 12:34 PM

Posted By: JDRUM".......Or do whatever his many handlers or a focus group tells him." I imagine he's on the phone right now with Warren Buffett figuring out how to handle this. When he decides, he will probably wait until the first game of the 2009 World Series to make the announcement based upon sage advice from his agent.

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02-08-2009, 01:51 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI can't say this is a surprise--also undoubtedly true. Have to agree wholeheartedly with Jeff--hope this keeps him, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Palmiero, Sosa etc out of Hall of Fame.

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02-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Posted By: Bobby I.A few thoughts: 1) No surprise; 2) Who even cares anymore. Money motivates everything and the surprise should be the players NOT taking performance enhancers; 3) Anyone proven to have taken performance enhancers should have all statistics erased from record books. That's all statistics those prior to the occurrence and subsequent to it. Not fair? It doesn't have to be fair baseball is not a democracy it is run by a commissioner; 4) Elect a commissioner that has a set of balls, lay down the law and if it hurts someone's feelings too bad; 5) A-Rod is a self absorbed phony, whenever I hear people speak about his superior intellect I laugh. Ok Mr. Intellect what are you going to do now? 6) These guys need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If possession of steroids is against the law then enforce the law. If you commit perjury in front of a congressional hearing then you go to jail period, this means Clemens or anyone else. 7) I have been a lifelong Yankee fan but to tell you the truth I have absolutely no interest any longer. I have a feeling things will change significantly in about 4-5 months when no one has any money to go to games.

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02-09-2009, 08:26 AM

Posted By: sagardTo the thread about the football tie in: Do you actually think there is less steriods/HGH usage in the NFL than MLB? It's really just fewer get caught and fewer are trying to catch them.

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02-09-2009, 08:48 AM

Posted By: JohnnyHSteriods has always been such a big part of the NFL no one gives it a second thought when someone tests positive, it is not a shock at all and hasn't changed the game like it has in baseball. I think the fallout from the latest news will end up falling on Selig and take the focus off the players, the initial shock is over. When Jeter, A-Rod, and Garciaparra were at the top of their game in the late nineties I had hope the game was turning around but it's been downhill ever since.

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02-09-2009, 12:00 PM

Posted By: Jason Lhow do you think Hank Aaron feels...? probably vindicated. and hopefully, even more proud of his achievement. this development doesn't surprise, except for how long it took to be leaked. that delay actually puts more doubt in the declaration that anything else. I think it is probably safe to say that the vast majority of players were using PEDs for many years. At least, that is what you better start telling yourself if you don't want to be disappointed in any supposed heroes. This era of PEDs should not necessarily be remembered as the Steroid Era, per se, but perhaps more appropriately as a period in which we as a society were able to clearly and objectively see the valuation of a man's integrity and the devaluation of that same man's conscience. The "Height of Irresponsibility" was not only on Wall Street, but apparently $25million per year on the baseball diamond. edited for spelling

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02-09-2009, 12:02 PM

Posted By: Dan Well Arod just admitted to Peter Gammons that he used performance enhancers in 2001, 2002 and 2003. I do blame the Union for the fact that the test results could have been destroyed after 30 days after they were taken in 2003. They were never destroyed. The union failed in this respect.

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02-09-2009, 12:23 PM

Posted By: Bobby I.Well Roid-Rod admitted use after he consults with his "Pal" Boras. Admits it after getting caught, thinking we forgave Giambi and Pettitte we will forgive him. Wrong, with Giambi we knew what we were getting he never pretended to be a saint, Pettitte, home grown and we beleive he only used 2-3 times and he is a sincere person, no other motives. Roid-Rod is not sincere in the least, he has no excuse, he is a non sypathetic figure and not a likeable figure, by admitting it I dislike him even more, he is a pariah. Good luck buddy, you can choke on that future #800 hr ball.

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02-09-2009, 12:31 PM

Posted By: RichieWith all of his millions the sad part is he probaly dont care. Very sad. As the front of the NY Post reads "A-HOLE" cant say it any better then that.

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02-09-2009, 12:41 PM

Posted By: Alan UI don't like the reason he's coming forward, but I do like the fact he is admitting his use. His 3 year use seems somewhat plausible since he averaged 50 HR's those 3 years and 40 the other 10 years. Seems like now would be the perfect time for guys like McGwire, Palmeiro (sp?) to come forward while Arod is getting all the bad press. edited "20 years" to "10 years".... oops

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02-09-2009, 12:41 PM

Posted By: SteveI'd like to see just one of the remaining 103 positives step up and admit it too. That would take guts. Steve edited for our lady friends.

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02-09-2009, 12:55 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackI find it telling how all these so-called big he-man manly men can't admit to using steroids even when evidence is more than substantial. That's not being men, that's being children. It says that being a man has nothing to do with your physical stature and home run totals. There are many 70 pound seven year old boys who are twice times the men than these bozos. Why? Because the seven year olds will tell the truth, not because the punishment will be easy or because they just got caught, but because it's the right thing to do. There are four year olds in pre-schoool more willing to stand up and take responsibility for their actions that Pete Rose and Mark McGwire.

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02-09-2009, 12:56 PM

Posted By: Jim VB"His 3 year use seems somewhat plausible since he averaged 50 HR's those 3 years and 40 the other 20 years." Alan U, He's only 33 years old, so 23 years in the majors would be quite a feat! Most people would attribute the increase in HR's to the Ballpark in Arlington. There's a wind tunnel effect that makes hitters love it (and pitchers hate it.)

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02-09-2009, 12:58 PM

Posted By: SteveFor all the steroids those Rangers took where did it get them? Last place. Steve

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02-09-2009, 12:58 PM

Posted By: David SmithDan, How can the Players Union NOT be blamed for all of this mess? MLB had rules on the books against steroids and PED's as far back as 1993 but it was the PLAYERS UNION that didn't agree to testing and penalties. It was Gene Orza of the PLAYERS UNION that tipped guys off about when they were going to be tested. If the PLAYES UNION had done the right thing to begin with then ALL of this mess wouldn't have happened. Fans wouldn't have to look back on the last 15 years and wonder whether ALL of the players during that time were cheating and whether ALL of the records set during that time aren't tainted. Fans like me wouldn't be angry with a guy who had a very lucrative contract and THEN got out of it and was able to sign an even MORE lucrative contract and do it because he wasn't a known steroid abuser. David

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02-09-2009, 01:10 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackDuly note that the union IS the players. All agreements must be okayed by the players and player representatives (who are also players). If drug testing was prohibited, that's because the players prevented themselves from being tested. If there were no penalties for PED use, that's because the players prevented such penalties. If players were taking steroids when it wasn't tested for, that's because the players prevented steroids testing then took steroids. The idea that the players were slaves to the union negotiated rules is incorrect. As players they were responsible for them. When a player says "I used steroids but before MLB 'banned' them." My first question is did that player vote for or against drug testing and penalties when he was using the steroids. More likely than not, he actively voted against any rules that would have tested and punished steroids users. It's not unlike a Wall Street banker creating a rule that allows him to cheat with depositor's money, then, when the **** hits the fan, saying you can't blame him because he was just following rules.

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02-09-2009, 01:11 PM

Posted By: Bobby I.Now that Roid-Rod has admitted it is he looking to renegotiate his contract to 35 mil a year? Surprised his "Pal" Boras hasn't dropped that bomb yet.

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02-09-2009, 01:51 PM

Posted By: J LevineDifferent question...was there something in Arod's contract like a moral's clause...can Texas go after him for monetary compensation? Can the Yankees seek damages on a fraudulent trade? They were not going to get what was expected...a clean superstar? Etc. Joshua

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02-09-2009, 02:05 PM

Posted By: sagardThe Yanks would NEVER even consider going after Texas about A-Rod. He is still their best player in an off year and they don't want to lose him.

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02-09-2009, 02:48 PM

Posted By: Stephen MitchellMy suspicions are the A-Rod was probably on steroids before he left Seattle. Either that or his performance (given a less friendly Seattle ballpark - especially in 2000) was not enhanced all that much by drugs. His last year with the Mariners compared with his three at Texas: AB BB Runs Hits 2B-3B-HR RBI B.A. S.A. 554100 134 175 34-2-41 132 .316 .606 at SEATTLE (2000) 632 75 133 201 34-1-52 135 .318 .622 at Texas (2001) 624 87 125 187 27-2-57 142 .300 .623 at Texas (2002) 607 87 124 181 30-6-47 118 .298 .600 at Texas (2003) 601 59 141 215 54-1-36 123 .358 .631 at SEATTLE (1996) For additional comparison, his best year with Seattle (1996, in the Kingdome) is provided. Purely anecdotal: I recall a very early A-Rod home run - perhaps it was his first. Although his swing seemed effortless, the ball just jumped off his bat ending up over the center field wall. It was an amazing sight to behold and Alex was just an 19/20-year-old kid. Enough is enough, however, and it is time Major League Baseball cleaned up its act. Clearly a Judge Landis-type (as mentioned in earlier post) is needed to restore confidence in the integrity of the game and its records. For my money, the records and record-makers for the era 1984 or so through 2008 are suspect. Cheaters hurt themselves, their competitors, the fans and the game. They ought not be rewarded for their actions.

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02-09-2009, 03:40 PM

Posted By: marty qsteve mitchell- in seattle really, what about the n.y. years so far, 2 mvp's by the way, and he has tested and has been clean, explain that, not removing guilt, he took them, but you are like a bunch of others, trying to "guess" and make it bigger, isn't it bad enough that he did them for 3 years without guys like you trying to date them back to 7th grade. give ma a break, throw up his n.y. numbers steve....his clean years btw. so far at least. "the records and record-makers for the era 1984 or so through 2008 are suspect"- wow, 24 years, and who in 1984,85,86 were on roids?? i think they started in the 90's, maybe 93-94, with dykstra...and stopped in 2005 when the heat came. i explained my window explain yours.

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02-09-2009, 07:39 PM

Posted By: Stephen Mitchellmarty q: The "1984 or so" was based on my suspicions that Jose Canseco (whom I thought was the originator of steriods in MLB) would have been using at least a year or two before making it to the majors. Canseco debuted in 1985. It turns out that steroids use (from my limited research this evening) goes back much earlier. From the website TheSteroidsEra (<a href="http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2006/08/baseballs-steroid-era-timeline.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://thesteroidera.blogspot.com/2006/08/baseballs-steroid-era-timeline.html</a>), I learned that former major league pitcher and pitching instructor TOM HOUSE admits to what appears to be the earliest use of steroids - although, as you will see, he was not alone: Tom House May 2005 Admitted Using: Steroids (Non-specific) What he said: In a telephone interview with San Fransisco Chronicle reporter, Ron Kroichick, House admitted to using steroids for a couple of seasons during his career (1971-1978). House estimated that six or seven pitchers on every staff in baseball were experimenting with steroids in the 1970s. This was, and still is, the earliest account of steroid use in baseball. Houses admission and comments are from a May 3, 2005 San Fransisco Chronicle article entitled House a 'failed experiment' with steroids.

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02-09-2009, 08:21 PM

Posted By: Fred CI like Schillings idea - expose ALL of the players that failed the drug tests and just get it over with. His idea wasn't as much to expose the users but to clear the clean players (or at least those that didn't get caught). I wonder if this is going to be a union thing where the players union fights it. Heck, if I were a player that played by the rules I'd say take it to an anonymous vote of the players and let them decide. What if A-rod is a user? Does that mean that all the writers should exclude him from the HOF? What about Bonds? Does he deserve to be kept out of the HOF? Bonds was already on his way to 500HRs and immortality when he started juicing. What a mess, some of the biggest names in BB are tied to this era of error. I don't think you can keep everyone out of the HOF.

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02-09-2009, 09:17 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackIt's not possible to know who didn't use PEDs. Even if the 104 names are named, no one's naive enough to think they were the only users. It's not possible to know that Schilling never used PEDs, in part as he played for years under a system that didn't test. Sadly, fans have learned that those who express their innocence the loudest sometimes turn out to have been users (Palmeiro, McGwire, ARod, Bonds, for examples). The double edge sword of no testing is that it helps prevent the guilty from being proven guilty, but makes it impossible to prove the innocent are innocent. This may seem unfair to the innocent, but it's the system the players (including the innocent) and their union chose. The irony is the union chose a testing system with the intent of make everyone appear innocent, but in the end it may make everyone appear guilty.

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02-10-2009, 08:09 AM

Posted By: LenK oh no not another one....i was actually pulling for Ster-Rod to climb high on the all-time stats lists....glad i'm not a kid in this tainted era....with all of these big-time millionaire cheaters....what a disgrace.....adios hall of fame

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02-10-2009, 08:52 AM

Posted By: DanWho really cares? The reality of what is baseball, is that, for a long long long time baseball players have used drugs of one type or another. Why are steroids any different than barbiturates, speed, cocaine, uppers, downers, etc???? They are not. All are harmful to the body in their own way. One could argue that out of all the bad drugs that "our hero's" have taken over the years, steroids would be the least lethal and the least problematic for the overall health of the player. Has anyone seen the benefits of HGH? Amazing. Another item to think of: Baseball, just like all other sports, is an entertainment business. Do any of you care that Sly Stallone used steroids for his role in Rambo? Do any of you care about all the other steroid, drug addict, alcoholic, speed, cocaine using freaks of Hollywood and the Music Industry? NO. What about the ROID FREAKS of The National Felon League (NFL), NBA, NHL, etc? A history slammed full of steroids and other illegal drugs. Can anyone actually argue in the defense of NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, etc that some of the greatest teams of all times were not loaded to the hilt with drugs of all kinds? NO. Stories of bowls of uppers in the locker rooms for the players to "sample" before games. Ironically, if it is by way of a doctor, it is NOT ILLEGAL. One other really interesting item is that there sure are a lot of Yankee players turning up with Steroid issues... might be the team, not just the players. No, I am not a Yankee hater. In the end, who really cares about what these guys have to do to play and stay competitive as long as it is entertaining? I am sure the purists in this crowd are going to freak about what I just wrote, but you need to wake up and realize that A LOT MORE PLAYERS than you think, even some of your "Hero's", were drug heads of one flavor or another.

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02-10-2009, 09:40 AM

Posted By: J LevineDan, I care. I really really care. Why? Because I now have personal knowledge of how athletes taking steroids affect people. I hate PEDs...any of them. HGH, steroids, speed, anything! Why? Because 12 years ago I had a third grader in my class. He started using HGH that he bought illegally about 4 years ago, when he was 16, in order to make himself bigger and stronger for his local high school and college football teams. He used steadily until recently and the effects were impressive. That is right up until this year wehn he was put on the transplant list for a new liver. His doctors believe that the HGH was one of the causes for his liver beginning to fail. You say that it is okay as long as it is entertaining. I disagree. Youth are often under a lot of pressure and when they see their "heroes" using drugs, they feel justified in doing the same. You have no idea how many times I have heard students say something along the lines of "Snoop smokes pot...and look how succesful he is!" This is false logic of the most dangerous kind. Snoop is indeed successful. It is in spite of his drug use. They do not see how many people try to make it in the music business and fail. Kids do not make this intellectual leap very often. Heck, many adults don't either. I often wonder how much more successful some people could be if not for certain drugs. It pains me that AROD did this but I am actually a little glad he came out and said it was a mistake. If you watch the interview, you will notice that he stopped because of a neck injury and that he feels PEDs were the cause. Also by saying it was the culture of the time just sounds so ridiculous to me. That does not excuse or make it right. We all remember people saying to us in high school...just one beer, everyone is drinking, it won't hurt you...we also remember the first time we read or saw or knew someone who died or was killed by a drunk driver. Just because it was the "culture" does not mean it is safe, okay, or fine to do (see slavery, sweat shops, Jim Crow laws, segregation, Internment camps, concentration camps, Inquisition, etc...history is filled with stuff that was accepted at the time because the culture accepted it and thought it was just fine---drugs and the drug trade has become epidemic). X was a designer drug that for years was legal to use because there were no laws against it. The law had to catch up. Same with PEDs here. The law is finally catching up. This is just my opinion but I think I have a valid point. Joshua

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02-10-2009, 01:13 PM

Posted By: howardI agree with Joshua as to why we should care. I would add that I care because of all the clean athletes who never made it to the majors because they were blocked by ped users. For everyone that made it to the majors by using drugs there is a clean guy out there somewhere who lost out on his chance. Howard

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02-10-2009, 04:04 PM

Posted By: davidcycleback"It's all relative. The best players of the generation should go to the Hall." The problem is you can't know who were the best players in a generation where some were using PEDs and others weren't. What you can know is that those known to be using PEDs had an unfair advantage and bloated numbers relative to those who didn't.

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02-10-2009, 05:29 PM

Posted By: Patrick McHughFor those that think anabolics entered baseball recently just keep beliving. Anabolics have been a part of the sports culture for 50 years. This is not to say that they were prevolent early on but have gained year by year in usage. This is business just like your job. Most will try to find an edge to get ahead. With the amount of money involved in sports today usage is a way of life. The tests are very easy to beat. Amp up jan-march cleanse rinse repeat. There are anabolics that can not be detected by the testing that is done today. The atheletes that are caught are given bad advice. To those that think I am wrong just do the research.

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02-11-2009, 06:53 AM

Posted By: J LevinePatrick, I do not dispute the use of steroids for athletes for many many years...that still does not excuse the use. And just to be clear, the dangers of anabolics have been known for just as long. To get ahead in my job, I would not do something illegal or harmful. As to these athletes getting bad advice, I do not buy it. With a few very very rare exceptions, these athletes are all adults, all capable of making choices themselves, and I have little sympathy for the excuse that they were told it "would help, be legal, and not show up on a test." The exceptions are the kids who start...like I said, the kid in my class started using because of peer pressure. He bought his drugs from another teammate who bought them from an adult...both were told that the best athletes use them and are fine and making millions...college scholarships, pro-dreams, and getting girls were among the selling points for these students. Stop making excuses.... Joshua

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02-11-2009, 09:32 AM

Posted By: marty qstephen m- i agree on canseco, a real bum btw, but i do think the early 90's was when the mess started, no doubt that there were some who started maybe in the 70"s, but mainstream i think the 90"s, just my opinon, i didnt mean to jump on ya, after i re-read it came off that way, my appologies, and after what joshua wrote it makes me even more sick.

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02-11-2009, 09:36 AM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"It pains me that AROD did this but I am actually a little glad he came out and said it was a mistake. If you watch the interview, you will notice that he stopped because of a neck injury and that he feels PEDs were the cause." I don't believe a word from ARod. He claimed he had no idea what he was taking, claimed he got it in the drug store, and claimed that the SI reporter tried to gain access to his home. All obvious lies. Had he actually come clean I'd have some respect for him but he just seems incapable of telling the truth. I'd sooner trust Canseco.

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02-11-2009, 10:10 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanJeff...agreed. Arod couldn't care less except for that he got caught. His body language during the interview is very telling. His apologies were in no way sincere...he was obviously doing this because he "had" to...but he still feels as if he did nothing wrong.

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02-11-2009, 10:57 AM

Posted By: Patrick McHughJ. Levine 1.I agree anabolic use is bad and very dangerous. 2. Bad advice meaning the player was not told how to beat testing or given anabolics that are tested for. 3. Most would not break the law to get ahead in there job just mean that in big money sports it is looked at as getting a parking ticket until caught. 4.This is very bad for baseball . I to am a big fan and do not like this news. 5. Anabolic use is very bad for anyone but with children it is really bad. 6. I make no excuse for this behavior only pointing out the facts.

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02-11-2009, 11:08 AM

Posted By: J LevineThanks Patrick...I did not think you would do anything illegal or dangerous to get ahead in work and it was nothing personal...just responding to what you wrote specifically. Arod may not have been sincere but at least he acknowledges wrong doing...I think that is a step in the right direction. Whether sincere or not, I am heartend by the fact that he at least admitted it. That is half the battle in my opinion. Joshua

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02-11-2009, 11:14 AM

Posted By: Peter ThomasI don't believe Arod on this at all. How do you know he is lying? - His lips are moving.

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02-11-2009, 11:14 AM

Posted By: JDRUMAnd while we are speaking of the interview, Peter Gammons should be reinducted to the HOF as a slow pitch softball pitcher.

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02-11-2009, 11:15 AM

Posted By: J LevineAnd let us take this a step further...I once remember an interview with an ex-manager asking which then-current players he might have as a coach or manager. He mentioned a few (one is a very successful manager currently and a few coaches) including Roger Clemens and Mike Piazza. I thought it funny at the time thinking about the two of them in opposite dugouts but as an owner...would you hire any one of these guys? AROD, Bonds, Clemens, Big Mac, Canseco? They are damaging their future as well. Aside from the dishonesty aspect, we know steroids, esp. anabolic steroids, have long term mental/cognitive consequences...not my first choice for a coach or manager. Joshua