T206 -- Relative Scarcity or What Autographs Can Tell You [Archive]

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01-26-2009, 01:58 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorIn my endless quest to acquire autographs on as many T206 cards as possible, it is no surprise that the most common autographs come from the players who lived the longest. For example, it seems like everyone who wants one has an autographed T206 card of Rube Marquard. This is not surprising, given that he lived longer than anyone else in T206 -- he is the only T206'er who lived to 1980 (6/1/1980). Below is a list compiled some time ago on Net54 of the last 13 survivors: 1. Rube Marquard 6-1-1980 2. Paddy Livingston 9-19-1977 3. Al Shaw 12-30-1974 4. Fred Snodgrass 4-5-1974 5. Larry Doyle 3-1-1974 6. George McBride 7-2-1973 7. Dutch Jordan 12-23-1972 8. Fred Parent 11-2-1972 9. Davy Jones 3-30-1972 10. Donie Bush 3-28-1972 11. Zach Wheat 3-11-1972 12. Chief Meyers 7-25-1971 13. Harry Pattee 7-17-1971 Putting aside, for the moment, the obvious variable of difficulty in finding mailing addresses or just plain finding these guys in the 1970s and earlier, it is surprising to me that Meyers, Wheat, Jones, Parent, McBride, Doyle, Snograss, Livingston and Marquard have a number of examples of autographed T206 cards floating around the hobby and in established collections, but I have never even seen a signed T206 card of Shaw, Jordan, Bush or Pattee. Now, we all know that the T206 Pattee is a relatively scarce card, but how else do we explain the total or near absence of signed Shaw, Jordan or Bush cards? As I am pretty sure their signatures are relatively easy to come by on 3 x 5 cards, can we deduce that T206 cards of Shaw, Jordan and Bush are somewhat more scarce than other commons? Perhaps as uncommon as the T206 Pattee? When I spoke to Jeff Morey about this, he said he would send any card he had to the players he could find. He believed an absence of the player's signature on his card was probably more a function of the card's scarcity, than the player's availability. Any thoughts on this from T206 collectors or vintage autograph collectors? I'd be interested in hearing about relative scarcities on Pattee, Shaw, Jordan or Bush signatures OR T206 cards. ----- Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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01-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Posted By: James FeaginI can't speak for Shaw or Pattee, but I have seen two signed T206 Bush cards. James

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01-26-2009, 02:04 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldSome players don't like signing ballcards. They'll sign other stuff... Some players won't sign an 3x5 card. Some will sign those only if they write more stuff on there, they don't want to let go of a signature alone for fear of what someone might write above their signature. Some players won't sign. Some players, Bob Gibson, for example, used to always keep anything that was mailed to him. Maybe some of these guys just kept those little cigarette cards. Some can't sign. Maybe those scarce T206 guys just didn't like signing their little cards.

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01-26-2009, 02:05 PM

Posted By: T206Collector...signed T206 card, at least one, but never seen it. If you still know their whereabouts, any chance for a scan? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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01-26-2009, 02:38 PM

Posted By: Scot Reader Paul, Interesting information on the last T206 survivors. I don't think scarcity of the subjects in question is the reason for few or no autos. Pattee and Shaw (St. Louis) are somewhat tougher than average, but are not exceedingly difficult. Jordan (Portrait) is a bit challenging, but he has a second subject Jordon (Batting) that is one of the more common subjects. And Bush is easily acquired. As has been suggested, maybe these guys were harder to find or didn't like to sign, or both. Scot

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01-26-2009, 02:52 PM

Posted By: Tim SandersOf those autographs listed, I notice the sigs most available are also on some of the larger cities and cities that were successful at the time (New York, Detroit, Philly etc. or HOF Wheat & Marquard) Could it be similar to the T200's ...NY Giants are a dime a dozen but try finding either of the St Louis Teams?

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01-26-2009, 03:10 PM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyThe Jordan that passed away in 1972 was not Tim, so we are talking about the Southern League card for Atlanta. I'd imagine since it is a fairly tough card that it wouldn't have been peoples first choice to get autographed. -Rhett

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01-26-2009, 04:12 PM

Posted By: T206CollectorOf course! That is A.O. Jordan.... not Tim Jordan. That makes total sense that it would be under/non-signed. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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01-26-2009, 05:01 PM

Posted By: Scott TI would say your original list is pretty much spot on! I do not have any autographed T206's but I do have index card autographs ot cut autographs of the following T206 players: JapBarbeau LenaBlackburne Donie Bush LarryDoyle ArtFletcher Elmer Flick JohnGanzel RudyHulswitt DavyJones TommyLeach PaddyLivingstone HansLobert RubeMarquard George McBride FredParent Harry Pattee Nap Rucker FredSnodgrass Gabby Street Scott

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01-26-2009, 07:33 PM

Posted By: Scot Reader DELETE.

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01-26-2009, 07:33 PM

Posted By: Scot Reader Ah! Dutch = A.O. NOT Tim. I should have read that more closely. Thanks, Rhett. That helps explain why his auto is tough.

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01-26-2009, 07:54 PM

Posted By: Richard MassonIn the late 1960s and early 1970s, the Hall of Fame would forward mail to retired players so you didn't need their specific addresses. We (my friends and I) reached Marquard, Doyle, Snodgrass, Meyers, Livingston, Claude Berry (not T206), Davey Jones, McBride in this manner back then. While they forwarded lots of mail, not everything made it. The above guys were at home, but perhaps some of the others were in nursing homes by then, or were unable to open and process mail (they were well into their 80s by then). Mostly we were able to reach the guys included in The Glory of Their Times. Prior to the late 1960s, the interest in autographs and autographed cards was very low.

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01-27-2009, 06:05 AM

Posted By: T206CollectorRichard, Thanks for the post. I have often wondered whether the Glory of their Times spawned autograph collectors, or whether it just gave them a new avenue to pursue signatures. Certainly the book had an impact -- in fact, Rube Marquard used to push collectors to buy the book when he sent back autographed items in the mail. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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01-27-2009, 06:27 AM

Posted By: Mark LIn addition to the other reasons, the fact that Shaw, Jordan, Bush, and Pattee were less famous than the other players may contribute to the lack of autographed cards.