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01-21-2009, 07:12 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I am quite sure the thread will be locked but i wanted to follow through with the results of my initial thread in regards to Joe Orlando and PSA. I do believe Joe is a sincere person and he cannot help how employees handle situations. We talked on the phone today at length and i am confident that if PSA makes a mistake they will admit it and rectify the situation. In a world full of companies that do not want to be held accountable for wrong doings or mistakes i do not believe PSA to be one of them. <br><br>Joe was very polite and there was not the usual bantering-posturing that i am used to dealing with in regards to company Ceo or Presidents . He actually was sincere and sounded passionate about cards and the hobby. <br><br>He also was not in a rush to get off the phone like most corporate types who just go through the motions of precedure when dealing with damage control. I have no complaints as to how my situation was resolved and anytime a individual or company can make a mistake and admit it then they will always earn my respect and business. <br><br>Take the Cardinals and 7 because they are going to BRING THE NOISE in a major way.

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01-21-2009, 07:24 PM
Posted By: <b>Mark T</b><p>Did you ask him about the T206 Plank PSA 3 in Goodwin auction?<br><br>Will they buy back that card if found to be trimmed?<br><br><br>By the way, Pitt will win by 24...

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01-21-2009, 08:23 PM
Posted By: <b>marty q</b><p> 1 post to derail this thread.. &quot;&quot;&quot;amazing&quot;&quot;&quot;. <br><br><br><br> edited to add: not really amazing, but typical of anything psa.

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01-21-2009, 08:43 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Mark....the Steelers are banged up and Big Ben is just a tap away from being out of the game. I honestly think Baltimore was pathetic in the last game and with 5 minutes to go the score was 14-16 so let's just see what Warner and Fitzgerald can bring. Warner is a helluva lot different than Flacco. I am going to smash the birds in all aspects,first half bet, moneyline and also take the 7.

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01-21-2009, 08:44 PM
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>So they're &quot;Pro Scam Alliance&quot; unless they're polite and friendly to you on the phone, and they fix your problem for you. Then they're fine.<br><br>Bring the noise, indeed.<br><br>-Al

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01-21-2009, 09:43 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I figured you to heckle Al and yes if BRINGING THE NOISE is what it takes to get an individual's attention then i do know how and where to bring it.

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01-21-2009, 09:44 PM
Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Way to stick to your convictions there Marshall...what did Joe do, threaten to ban you from using PSA if you keep bashing them or give you a bunch of freebies...<br><br>PSA=YAWN<br><br>Joshua

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01-21-2009, 09:52 PM
Posted By: <b>Jantz</b><p><br>What was it that P. T. Barnum said?<br><br><br>Jantz

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01-21-2009, 09:52 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>$100 in vouchers buys a lot of silence. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">

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01-21-2009, 09:54 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>He never threatened to ban me, most intelligent folks do not even use such a word, that is just something like prima donas such as yourself dream about. Ohhhh let's ban someone or hey he called me a name so ban him, like a guy could really give a F about being banned from anything. No freebies either just a genuine conversation about a mistake in handling hence the grading occurred which should not have. I am not the type to look for handouts kid.

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01-21-2009, 09:56 PM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> If someone doesnt care about being banned then couldnt that person just be banned and get it over with? why wait?

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01-21-2009, 09:57 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>LOL no vouchers Dan and 100 dollars is almost laughable in regards to this situation.

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01-21-2009, 09:59 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Sure John go ahead and ban yourself from any of my posts.

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01-21-2009, 10:01 PM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> That was just a general statement Marshall,no need to get snippy. It had more to do with PSA obviously,dont know how you missed that. I think I'll continue to read all the posts though,thanks.

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01-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Posted By: <b>John</b><p><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/poochie.gif" alt="[linked image]"><br><br>

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01-21-2009, 10:05 PM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> I never noticed that poochy had hair coming out the front(back actually) of his hat....what kind of dog has hair like that? I guess 3 toed ones<br><br> &quot;Live animation shows would put a terrible strain on the cartoonists&quot;

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01-21-2009, 10:09 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>If someone doesnt care about being banned then couldnt that person just be banned and get it over with? why wait?<br><br>Sorry John but your statement makes no sense to me. The only place that talks about banning people is this message board and generally by folks on here that in all seriousness probably enjoy wafting on their own farts.

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01-21-2009, 10:12 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>John i can't take anyone serious that calls themselves Wonka on a baseball card message board.

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01-21-2009, 10:15 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>You tell people to &quot;Bring the noise&quot;, hang out with grunge rockers, consider yourself the rock n roll golfer and YOU can't take Wonka seriously?<br><br>I figure you'd applaud his individualism??<br>

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01-21-2009, 10:17 PM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> I thought it was a good statement but I guess not. It was obviously PSA related,at least when I wrote it...I don't get your last statement but I digress<br><br> John/wonka however,is a very good person,plus it was Simpsons related so I would agree with whatever he says

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01-21-2009, 10:26 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Well i don't listen to Peter Paul &amp; Mary or eat jawbreakers. I'm really just kidding around with John and i know he is not going to take anything serious someone writes on a message board.

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01-21-2009, 10:28 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Yeah, but even if you're just joking around you have photos of yourself on the internet and you don't want to mess with Teh Wonka! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">

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01-21-2009, 10:30 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I also don't recall telling anyone to hang out with grunge rockers. Most chaps that play loud distorted guitar really are kinda isolated recluse types that fiend on high decibal sound waves that the average person has not a clue about nor could they handle the lifestyle that goes with the territory.

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01-21-2009, 10:33 PM
Posted By: <b>ralph</b><p>Marshall,<br> please stop with the &quot; Bring the Noizze &quot; comments, they are older then your NJ Nets throwback jersey !

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01-21-2009, 10:37 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>&quot;I also don't recall telling anyone to hang out with grunge rockers&quot;<br><br>Maybe this will refresh your memory?<br><br><a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1231311600/High+school+or+church" target="_new">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1231311600/High+school+or+church</a>

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01-21-2009, 10:38 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Dan....now that is hilarious.I don't care about photos or idle threats. Once while opening for Manson a Neo-Natzi skinhead started flying fists first at me towards the stage and i do believe might have killed me cause i only go 160 soaking wet (lol) but a dear friend of mine who is a Navy Seal ahhhhhhh stopped him dead on. It kinda looked like the play in the Steelers game where Willis MCGahee got hit. I starting laughing so hard that i turned around and played guitar instead of singing because the guy literally was out cold and the mosh pit was out of control.

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01-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Oh i have hung out with certain folks no denying that but i never told anyone else to.

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01-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Now that's a youtube I'd like to see.

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01-21-2009, 10:50 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>You know a certain board member who posts here all the time e-mailed me and he has most folks on this board spot on. They really have nothing to say in regards to what the initial post says and just attack people when the group does because they finally get the courage to to be someone. Really kind of reminds me of a high school geek scene. I knew my post would just rile things up a bit. Silly lads TRIX are for kids.

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01-21-2009, 11:00 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Dan....i actually have the show on dvd but afterwards i was not allowed by law to play in Davie Fla because of the mahem. About 50 of the dudes skinhead friends attacked during another song trying to blindside me and the band but little did they know that on the outskirts of the stage were about 75 bikers that had a bar on the other side of our rehearsal studio and a riot broke out. About 20 people went to the hospital and the show was shut down. A biker named Skid picked up a monitor and smashed a guy in the head nearly killing him, I was singing and the next thing i knew my Navy Seal buddy just picked me up and dashed for the back EXIT where a limo had the door open, he just threw me in and off it sped. I was like what in the hell just happened because i was worried about the rest of the band and my friends. I went to Michigan and laid low in a hippy commune where no one would ever dream of searching for me and spoke to my attorney daily. Luckily no one died and no arrests were made. All charges against me were dropped and i never played with Manson again.

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01-22-2009, 01:15 AM
Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>And yet, a quick search yields no such concert problems...you think it would be big news of a riot at the opening of a Manson concert...more noise...that is all it is anymore...just noise...no credibility...just noise...<br><br>just once I would like marshall to post about baseball cards...not grading, not pumping himself up, not tearing someone down, no complaining, no gambling, no football picks, no investments, no grunge, no noise, just some knowledge of cards...really...is that too much to ask?<br><br>Joshua

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01-22-2009, 02:41 AM
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>I have been sorta following this debacle since it started and I have a question.<br><br>Why would anyone send PSA cards but not want them graded?<br><br>Usually when I send them cards it is for them to grade them.<br><br>In this instance you sent them cards and wanted Joe to see them?<br><br>I apologize if you have already answered this question.<br><br><br>Steve<br>

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01-22-2009, 07:59 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Steve....i have never submitted cards via the send in route for fear the cards would be damaged or lost. Any cards i graded in the past were always personally delivered to the grading booth so i could have a little more control and watch what is going on. The reason for my wanting Joe to see them was simple, i had not decided whether to use PSA or SGC and decided that if Joe and i saw eye to eye in grading then submit the cards and establish a relationship if not send them back, also i thought if the cards were delivered to Joe they would not be mis-handled. Those Beauties are not the only cards i own which need to be graded. My reasoning was right because the cards were not delivered to Joe and somehow a gal in customer service got them and one of the cards was mis-handled and a 9 turned into a 5 instantly. Anytime i do business with a company i generally get to know who is in charge so i can establish a relationship in case anything goes wrong. Never do i try and tell people how to handle their personal business affairs unless asked and when it comes to mine i seek no advice.

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01-22-2009, 08:04 AM
Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>HST you ain't. <br><br>If we're so reminiscent of the geek scene in high school, why are you slumming it here? Why not just go back to the cool kids' table and leave us geeks to our geeky hobby?<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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01-22-2009, 09:03 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I actually do business with certain members here. Buying and selling cards is business period. In regards to the geek scene that's not my gig. I'll be just fine kid so don't worry about me.

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01-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Posted By: <b>Steve F</b><p> Most folks grasp this basic concept (below) early in our developing years. Unfortunately, there are those that have experienced childhood traumas, rejection etc, stifling their ability to catch up. On the bright side... Many community colleges offer Psych 101 for minimal cost that can provide those missing building blocks required for acceptance within an emotionally healthy society. <br><br><br><br>A basic, but necessary concept, useful in today's social circles (the Johari Window);<br><br><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1232636763.GIF" alt="[linked image]">

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01-22-2009, 09:15 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Many community colleges also have classes for the mentally impaired or in a polite way of putting it &quot;slower types&quot;. Perhaps you should check into that Steve and by the way take your thumb out of your mouth when posting you are getting slobber on the screen.

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01-22-2009, 09:17 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc- Anyone who writes this on every single message they post spends way to much time looking in the mirror. Come out come out wherever you are.

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01-22-2009, 09:18 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hey Marshall, chill out. All this thread is about is you fighting with every board member who posts.<br><br>I guess I am next, huh?

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01-22-2009, 09:26 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>On the contrary Sloate. What this is about was a post i made in regards to a situation with Joe Orlando and PSA. It then turned into mental jabs sly comments and the usually critical comments that have nothing to do with the original post. I don't answer to anyone so you chill out boss.<br><br>Sik drama umm latin verb pronoun vino Ty Cobb

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01-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>All things considered, I got off pretty easy.

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01-22-2009, 09:31 AM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p>Thats what she said <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>It's all good Barry i'm sure everyone is laughing. I do really hope that people don't take these boards serious outside of the card talk. Speaking of card talk i still can't believe a PSA 8 No Stares sold for 432.00 that is almost what some 10's have brought. I guess the gals just get prettier and they are cool scenes. Oh well gotta run i'm heading to a auction to look at this old baseball photo. I think it is a minor league team from 1915 Chambersburg Maroons which had a few guys that called up to Pittsburgh. Also some real old turn of the century baseball equipment but i have no clue about that.<br><br><br><br>Remember boys the Birds are gearing up so BRING THE NOISE and take the points.

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01-22-2009, 10:25 AM
Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Let me be the first to thank Marshall for actually posting something baseball related (finally)...Marshall, that photo sounds interesting and if you do go to the auction and get a decent look at it, post a pic for us...many of us I am sure would love to see it (especially if it contains former or future Major Leaguers).<br><br>Now...if you can keep posting things like this, I and a great many others would be extremely happy.<br><br>Joshua

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01-22-2009, 11:00 AM
Posted By: <b>macboube</b><p>MB<br><br>You may recall, like yourself, I am in a similar situation with the find of high grade, unopened vintage cards. After hundreds of subs, reviews, mtg.'s and authenticating, my respect for PSA contiues to rise each and every time I do business with them. They are by no means perfect, but overall, they are good at what they do. A lot of myths fly around about favoritism, etc., etc., but when Mr. Crandell only gets a 2.5% bump rate, it helps to put that theory to rest.<br><br>Your latest release of Az. plus may be a good one. Hard to believe I finaaly agree with one of your picks.

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01-22-2009, 11:14 AM
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>Marshall-<br><br><br><br>The only noise the birds will bring will be big #92 laying the smackdown on Warner or the FLyin' Hawaiian smoking Fitzgerald into a bigger fantasy land than where even you come from! Steelers by 20......NO CONTEST. You need to hit your peace pipe, meth or acid some more before you make any hasty bets. Manson is a *** at heart BTW. He smokes more than meth I hear. <br><br>Be well,<br><br><br><br>Jason<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>edited to add:<br><br><br><br>Keep the homophobic and sexual comments off the board please

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01-22-2009, 11:30 AM
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Marshall, next time you talk to Joe tell him you and I are very good friends, then let me know how the conversation goes. I completely disagree with everything in your original post here, sorry, just personal experience. I have no issue with you though and would gladly deal with you. Actually, from personal experience, I feel Joe is the complete opposite of what you stated unless he has recently changed. If so, tell him to send me my legal fees he owes me.

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01-22-2009, 12:18 PM
Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Disgusting...that is all I can say about Jason's post...ignorant and disgusting...

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01-22-2009, 12:50 PM
Posted By: <b>TFerg</b><p>I agree with Jason's post being disgusting, I hate the steelers.

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01-22-2009, 12:59 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Lets try to keep the posts from having a lot of vulgar slang please. Jason's last post pretty much crossed the line...Clean it up please.....thanks ya'll.....your busy moderator

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01-22-2009, 02:45 PM
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>My apologies to Leon. I will clean it up, as if the previous posts in here were not already stupid enough.<br><br>Sorry<br><br>Jason

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01-22-2009, 02:47 PM
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>Levine-<br><br>I really do not care about your opinion. <br><br>TFerg, I think your post was obviously ignorant. Mine may have been somewhat disgusting, but your's WAS ignorant.<br><br>Jason

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01-22-2009, 02:48 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>As far as the forum goes anyone has a right to be stupid. No one has the right to make homophobic and sexual comments.<br><br>Carry on!

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01-22-2009, 11:13 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Jason...man dude you have some real issues. I do not judge people because of their sexuality or race. I think perhaps you watch to much MTV or read to many heavy metal mags. I never claimed to be friends with Brian Warner, we just happened to be in the same town when alternative rock exploded. I never agreed with his lyrical writing but his grooves are bigtime because of Trent Reznor's influence. In regards to the drug comments i do not do drugs but my personal belief is that every human being has the right to experience anything they choose, John Lennon,Jimmi Hendrix,Jim Morrison,Bob Dylan,Johnny Cash,Kurt Kobain,Eric Clapton,Ozzy Osbourne,All of the Rolling Stones,Janice Joplin,Robert Plant,Lou Reed,Johnny Rotten,and many others experienced heavy drug use and ahhhhh their music reflected it and they are the faces of rock-n-roll and their albums sold millions so enough said. <br><br><br><br><br><br>I did buy the photo today at auction and it is way cool. I am pretty sure it is the Chambersburg Maroons minor league team of 1915. The team only existed one year so it has to be a rare photo. The pic is quite large and untouched in a period frame. I'll have to figure out how to get a photo of it on here. I think Clyde Barnhart may be in the photo and he played for Pittsburgh a few seasons. I'll work on getting a pic up.

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01-22-2009, 11:27 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>In regards to Joe Orlando he was very professional and acknowledged mistakes and did not hide behind smoke and mirrors. I did not ask for free vouchers or grade bumps because the cards should not have been graded in the first place. I cannot have an opinion on how he deals with other folks because unless i hear the conversation how do i know what is going on? The man was genuine and factual with me so i do not know what happened in your case Dan. What is shocking is how in the hell does a Magee error card get lost? That just blows me away. PSA will get more of my cards because i do believe Joe is a sincere guy, i had him pegged wrong so enough said.

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01-22-2009, 11:47 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Marshall, if you can take a pic of your pic and send it to me in email I will post it to the forum. I'm interested in seeing that photo. Thanks!

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01-23-2009, 12:13 AM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Dan....i just bought a new digital camera today so somehow tomorrow i will try and either get a pic up or shoot you a pic so you can post it. The picture has a certain haunted quality to it and i spoke to a gentleman tonight who is pretty sharp on sports memorablia in regards to the area of Chambersburg and he said it is most likely to be a one of a kind item. I do know a fellow was pissed that i outbid him today and he just glared at me when the item was brought back and handed to me. Maybe he drove a long way to bid on it but he did not BRING THE NOISE when it came time to pony up the cash and i told him that the amp volume goes to 10 which went right over his head, at least he turned around and stopped staring. I must say out of all my photos it has a very ominous quality which i dig.

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01-23-2009, 12:37 PM
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Isn't the saying goes to 11??<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY</a><br><br>Marshall you're a rockstar guy!

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01-23-2009, 07:43 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Is that not the funniest movie. Dan i had to do a million things today and i just got home. I'll try and figure this camera out and get a pic up.

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01-23-2009, 08:34 PM
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>Marshall-<br><br>I have no issues. I was jusr ribbing you! I never suggested you were gay. I still take Pittsburgh and claim 20+. Pitt, the under, and you starting a new thread by Super Bowl Sunday. That is a tri-fecta that anyone can count on! Oh yea.....and you can also count on the DOW going under 6K for teaser.<br><br>Jason

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01-23-2009, 08:43 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Jason...no big deal i don't take things that serious. In regards to your Super Bowl prediction perhaps you should do some research on the 69,79,89 and 99 games. Curt Warner is a very confident right now and the Steelers are coming off two tough games in cold weather. I think the Steelers will be feeling the pressure because of expectations of a victory, the Cardinals are happy go lucky and that can be very dangerous in this scenario. Ever heard of Joe Namath?

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01-23-2009, 08:54 PM
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>I hear ya, but the Steelers are the TOTAL package. AZ just simply cannot compete. Steeler Defense will dominate. I suppose we will find out soon enough. I think Warner is hungry as well as the Cardinals but that just will not be enough to get it done this year. They are just maserfully outmatched in every way. Crazier things have happened though I suppose. I mean people still do win the lottery, and a pilot just steered down a plane into the harbor with no casualties, so I suppose there is a glimmer of hope for AZ.<br><br>Be well,<br><br>Jason

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01-24-2009, 07:47 AM
Posted By: <b>Frank B</b><p><br> It isn't often that the team with the clearly inferior run game and<br>clearly inferior defense wins a game like this. I personally think they <br>are in over their head. Do like the job Whisenhunt has done though. <br>He is a good coach but he can't get out there and run the ball for them.<br><br>

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01-24-2009, 08:08 AM
Posted By: <b>ralph</b><p>Marshall,<br> Youve been told to stop with the &quot; bring the noise&quot; comment. Its very unbecoming of you, <br> I know you groove to &quot; tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree&quot;<br><br> Now consider this a warning. You must cease with that phrase

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01-24-2009, 09:00 AM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I am just curious what is going to happen to Marshall if he doesn't heed your warning? Will he explode? &quot;Bring the Noise&quot; is fairly harmless imo. I do hope everyone remembers the focus of this forum though and trys to talk about pre-war baseball cards and related subjects. take care

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01-24-2009, 10:37 AM
Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Actually I was starting to like it.<br><br><br>&quot;Bring the Noise&quot; <br><br><br>Steve

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01-24-2009, 01:29 PM
Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Well, someone has to do it. Consider the noise officially brought (brung? bringified?).....<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBA-xi8WuCU" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBA-xi8WuCU</a>

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01-24-2009, 10:29 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>Ralph....what are you like some kind of freaking high school principal wannabe? I'll BRING THE NOISE at all times partner and last time i checked you are not in charge. I also just posted a baseball pic which is cool and i know is a very rare photo. I still say Leon's post of the cow bell is classic. There is no doubt i nominate it post of the year.<br><br>BRING THE NOISE- I need more cowbell baby (-:

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01-24-2009, 10:37 PM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Ralph,he is going to continue the annoying catch phrase as long as people keep egging him on. I wish there was a principal around here to keep him from being so childish and then whenever everyone gets annoyed he just plays it off like oh im not serious and its supposed to be ok? Some people just crave attention all the time

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01-24-2009, 10:43 PM
Posted By: <b>marshall barkman</b><p>I don't need attention John, what i need is a blonde about 5&quot;11 34DD that loves tobacco cards.

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01-24-2009, 10:44 PM
Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> If one shows up at my door I'll eventually send her your way

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01-25-2009, 07:55 PM
Posted By: <b>ralph</b><p> Ok Marshall, you right.. Im gonna back off,.. you rock the house,..... You rock the cardboard, you rock the danceclub,..you rock the hairclub for men, .LOL..<br> Im tryin to be a playa.. but I fillin in 88 Donruss sets..and your goin T 205 on me ! whas up wit dat <br>