Was Plank the 36th card in the Sweet Cap 150 Fac 649 set ? [Archive]

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01-20-2009, 01:28 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisI recently completed this small subset of 35 cards. Apparently, this small set resulted from ATC transferring their Sweet Caporal operation to the 1st District plant in Rochester, NY (Factory 649 also produced the HINDU brand). It's always bothered me that this set has 35 cards. This number doesn't jive with my lowest common denominator of a 6 card factor in the printing of the T206's. Anyhow, recently the subject of Mike "Doc" Powers came up; and, it got me to thinking. Powers is one of the more available cards in this Fac. 649 sub-set. Furthermore, Powers was the Catcher of choice for Eddie Plank. After doing some homework, it's my belief that there was a 36th card in the SC 150/649 set....and, it was Eddie Plank. A study of the players in this set indicates, that for whatever reason, the T206 designers mainly selected Pitchers and Catchers for this small set...as 66% of the cards in this set represent either of these positions. Do not dismiss this theory; instead, consider that the 150 Series Plank is available with Sweet Cap 150 Fac 25 or the Fac 30 back. Therefore, I'd venture to say that there is a good probability that Plank was also printed with an SC 150/649 back. However, ATC did not issue this Plank, due to the aforementioned conflict that ATC had with the American Caramel Co., regarding Plank (and other A's players). In my opinion, this caused ATC to cease issuing their T206 Plank cards. <img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/abplankpowers.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> ......................Plank and Powers......perfect together................ If anyone here knows which of the Sweet Caporal 150 factory (#25 or 30) was overprinted with Factory 649....or, has an SC 150/649 card with an offset overprint that reveals this Factory....please post this here ? "And, The Beat Goes On"......as the T206 Plank mystery continues ! Thanks, TED Z

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01-21-2009, 12:55 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThese 35 cards in the Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 (overprint) set each have six 150-type backs. This is more "150" backs than any other cards in the entire 150 Series. Shown here is Mike "Doc" Powers with all the 6 backs. The Powers card is one of the most available cards in this sub-set. Walter Johnson (portrait) and Christy Mathewson (white cap) are also very easy cards to find. Ironically, Mike Powers suffered a serious injury on Opening Day (April 12, 1909) of Shibe Park in Philadelphia. Two weeks later he died. <img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/6powersbacks.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> TED Z

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01-21-2009, 01:08 AM

Posted By: PatCTed, Both Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 and Sweet Caporal 350-460 f42 overprint have SC f30 "underprinted".

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01-21-2009, 05:24 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisIndeed, the SC 460 Fac 30 printing of the 55 cards from the 350/460 Series were never issued. These cards were sub- sequently overprinted with Fac. 42 when the NY based Sweet Cap operation was transferred to Durham, NC. Now, regarding the SC 150 Fac 649 (overprint) cards......it makes more sense that this series of 35 cards were initially Factory 30 (NY) cards that were overprinted in order to be inserted in cigarette packs produced at the Rochester, NY factory (#649). So I ask....how do you know that it was SC Fac. 30 cards that were overprinted with 649 for these 150 Series cards ? TED Z

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01-21-2009, 07:41 AM

Posted By: RedUnder magnification it's 30 that's showing. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1232552390.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-21-2009, 08:21 AM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisTHANK YOU......I've searched thru many SC 150 Fac. 649 overprints over the years, looking for what you just posted. Really, your the man. TED Z

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01-21-2009, 10:20 AM

Posted By: Jim ParkerTed, can you remind us your explanation of how the plank came to be also available in the 350 series as well? Do you think that ATC pulled it from 150...then thought they had the rights issue resolved, printed some 350s then again pulled it because they realized the rights issue was NOT legally resolved?

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01-21-2009, 02:19 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisIf my theory is correct; and, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to support it......a "cease and desist" order by the American Caramel Co. (ALC) forced upon ATC not to portray certain A's players. The ALC was first to acquire the rights to these players (in 1908) for their E91 and E90-1 sets. Here is the list of A's that were portrayed in the 1st series of the E90-1 set...... HR Baker Jack Barry Eddie Collins Harry Davis Jimmy Dygert Heinie Heitmuller.....not in T206 Joe Jackson...........not in T206 Harry Krause Stuffy McInnis........not in T206 Eddie Plank Ira Thomas With the exception of a "short-lived" attempt to issue Plank, none of these Subjects were in the initial (150) series of the T206 set issued in mid-1909. Subsequently, ATC issued most of these A's guys in the following 350 Series. Again, ATC issued Plank. Again, ALC quickly acted to stop ATC from issuing any more Plank cards. To better understand this scenario, please read my prior thread on this. I will summarize it here with these points.... 1....American Caramel (ALC) was located in Philadelphia and Plank was the darling of the A's fans. 2....The founder of ALC was Mr. Lafean, who was a close friend of Connie Mack. 3....Prior to becoming owner of ALC, Mr. Lafean was the Director of Gettysburg College when Eddie Plank was their ace pitcher. I hope I have made this story a little clearer. TED Z

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01-21-2009, 07:45 PM

Posted By: Jim ThierfelderI wish I had something to contibute to the thread other than to thank Ted for his very rich, thoughtful, and insightful posts. As great as it would be to solve all the mystery of the monster, it is the mystery that makes the set so fun to collect.

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01-21-2009, 10:52 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisJIM T....Thanks for your kind words. Here is another example of American Caramel forcing ATC not to issue A's players in the 1st series of the T206 set. This proof card of Eddie Collins was designed by American Litho. to be issued in the 150 Series of the T206 set. But, as it turned out, it was never issued. <img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/at206collinsbatmagie.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> TED Z

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01-24-2009, 06:00 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisJust wondering, are there any more ideas or inputs on this subject, before it disappears ? I strongly feel that each T206 series was formatted with either 6 (or 12 cards) across a printed sheet. Therefore, a 36th card was originally printed in the SWEET CAP 150, Fac- tory 649 sub-set. If not Eddie Plank, then who ? Does anyone want to offer an educated guess ? TED Z

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01-24-2009, 06:29 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanTed, do you have a list available of the 35 known players in this subset? Thanks, Rick

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01-24-2009, 06:45 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisHere you go guy. Sweet Caporal 150, Fac 649 (overprint) set.....35 cards Alpermann Bates Bransfield Bresnahan (portrait) JJ Clarke (Cleveland) G. Davis (Chicago) H. Davis (A's) Delehanty (Washington) Ewing Gilbert Goode Griffith (portrait) Johnson (portrait) Tom Jones (St Louis) Killian (pitching) Lajoie (throwing) Lake (New York) Liebhardt Manning (batting) Marquard (hands down) Mathewson (white cap) McIntyre (Brooklyn)) McQuillan (ball in hand) Nicholls (hands on knees) O'Leary (portrait) Owen Pastorius Powers........150-only series subject Ritchey Schlei (catching) Schmidt (throwing) Sheckard (no glove) Spencer Wagner (bat on left) Wilhelm (hands at chest) TED Z

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01-24-2009, 06:53 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanThanks much! Rick

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01-24-2009, 07:08 PM

Posted By: barry arnoldTed, all of these little trips i've been taking are sure putting me behind in these Net 54 206 issues!!! just a couple of quick questions. Murphy throwing and Oldring fielding of the A's are also missing the 649 card, while having the 30--- similar to the Plank case. Could either be a candidate for the 36th, or do they just pale too much in comparison to the starpower of Plank to be critical to this discussion? Also, with just a quick glance, I noticed that Heitman's checklist in the Monster leaves a spot for the 649 to be checked in the 649 column for Plank; he does this for Murphy throwing and Oldring fielding as well. I recognize that Bill H. saw this checklist as a work in progress but i still wonder if he knows something 'extra' about the Plank 649---and the Murphy and Oldring. I do recognize that Bill B.'s spreadsheet omits a slot for the 649 for Plank, Murphy,Oldring. If i'm on some other planet with this, just tell me to rest up from my trip and i will. best, barry

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01-24-2009, 08:11 PM

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisThat is very, very interesting regarding Heitman allocating a spot for Plank with a Factory 649 back. I was not aware of this, since it's been a while that I havereviewed Bill's book on the Monster. I will check this out in his book tomorrow. As for Mullin and Oldring, that's news to me. I have to think about them. Thanks, I really appreciate this info. TED Z