Congrats to Obama (OT) [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

Archive

01-20-2009, 10:07 PM

Posted By: JimBI thought somebody else would have started this thread by now. I just wanted to acknowledge what an important day this is in our country's history and to wish Obama and his administration the best. They have got major problems on their hands on all fronts. Hopefully our politicians can begin to work together a bit towards common solutions for the common good. Please don't turn this into a political fight. It is just meant to be a well-wish. JimB

Archive

01-20-2009, 11:01 PM

Posted By: barry arnoldWell put Jim. I'm with you in this celebration. best, Barry

Archive

01-21-2009, 12:26 AM

Posted By: Ken WirtHere, here!

Archive

01-21-2009, 03:33 AM

Posted By: brockI just dont like how it all cost 175 million dollars. That could have gone to some other company right now.

Archive

01-21-2009, 04:02 AM

Posted By: barrysloateIt was a glorious day, but now it's down to business. I wish him well. If there is one thing I believe he can do it is bring the country together.

Archive

01-21-2009, 04:42 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzA very moving experience. When was the last time we saw crowds so united by something that was not an expression of anger or fear?

Archive

01-21-2009, 05:00 AM

Posted By: barrysloateObama received cheers and shrieks in Washington yesterday like the Beatles did in NYC in 1964. I've never seen so much adulation before for an elected official. Will the good feelings last?

Archive

01-21-2009, 05:54 AM

Posted By: GlennJust joining in the sentiment, I'd like to extend further congratulations and well wishes to President Obama and the country and, what the heck, the rest of the world.

Archive

01-21-2009, 05:56 AM

Posted By: leonI didn't vote for Obama and I disagree with many of his plans. That being said I am excited for the country, hope the best for him, and am behind him 110%. I do have confidence in him....I hope we can eventually get past the race thing too. Maybe this is a beginning ...

Archive

01-21-2009, 09:44 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonA new era is beginning,, adherence to the Constitution, respect for all, the end of a foolish and costly war. Congratulations to President Obama and may you lead this country out of the terrible mess it is now in. I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-21-2009, 10:57 AM

Posted By: Rob D.It took nine posts. Impressive.

Archive

01-21-2009, 11:21 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblitthopefully the people expecting him to be a Panacea will be a little more realistic down the road. He will have a tough time. WE will have a tough time.

Archive

01-21-2009, 11:45 AM

Posted By: LauraAt least the market's back up over 8,000 today so far.

Archive

01-21-2009, 01:05 PM

Posted By: BobSome times perception is all important. I agree with you Tom, it will be a tough time, but I am hoping that the country can rally behind Obama and his programs. It just feels like a clean, fresh breeze this morning here in the Ozarks after so much doom, gloom and fear the past 8 years. Good luck to the Prez!

Archive

01-21-2009, 01:47 PM

Posted By: Stephen MitchellI am not hopeful that President Obama or his policies will cure America's ills any more than the central planning of presidents and congresses before him. Earlier this year I read a book that focused on the years before and during the Great Depression (The Forgotten Man by author Amity Schlaes). Although the author does not directly find a parallel, I could not help but notice the similarity of George W. Bush's meddling in the free market with Herbert Hoover's. And the very likely, considerable meddling by Obama - mirroring FDR. I heartily recommend this book although it took me a quite a bit of time to read (re-reading many portions) it. For my part, I will pray for the new president but if he forsakes policies that have historically gotten the nation back on track (i.e. cut spending, cut taxes and reduce government's role in micro-managing the economy) and opts for the central planning policies of Europe, much of Asia and most within his own party, we will only see a repeat of the failures of FDR. And a long, difficult Depression.

Archive

01-21-2009, 01:51 PM

Posted By: leonI am not sure the wording you used is exactly as meant? I would at least hope you are hopeful? I am not saying you need to be optimistic but I can't imagine you wouldn't want to be hopeful. I am optimistic but realistic too. It's going to be tough but I "hope" Obama can do it.......take care

Archive

01-21-2009, 02:45 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz" ...we will only see a repeat of the failures of FDR..." I sure hope so!

Archive

01-21-2009, 03:47 PM

Posted By: JimAn interesting read that is fitting for the times is a work called The Politics Presidents Make by Stephen Skowronek. Skowronek theorized that the place in the order of presidential succession is the key to the success/failure of a president. One could conclude that Obama, like Abraham Lincoln, FDR, and Ronald Reagan, is placed nicely in the order of presidents to be a success. Things went poorly for G.W. Bush during his second term (particularly foreign affairs and the economy), and the public grew tired of Republican presidents (20 of the last 28 years). There are similarities between the times that the aforementioned presidents ascended to office and the current situation. Though I did not vote for Obama, I too wish him well. I hope that in four years I vote for him in a landslide victory.

Archive

01-21-2009, 05:55 PM

Posted By: JimCrandell"If he forsakes policies that have gotten the nation back on track(cut spending, cut taxes, reduce govt. role in micromanaging economy) and opts for central planning poluicies of Europe, much of bAsia and most within his own party we will only see a repeat of failures of FDR"-Stephen Mitchell Extremely well said--my sentiments exactly. Obama seems prepared to take the country hard left, mirroring his voting record in the Senate as the one with the most liberal voting record. This is a route to failure. If one supports higher taxes, the nationalization of key industries, and other policies of the loony left Obama is your man.

Archive

01-21-2009, 06:11 PM

Posted By: AlanLet's take a poll on how many threads it will take for Leon to lock this thread because a political discussion will get nasty. Let's start the bidding.

Archive

01-21-2009, 06:12 PM

Posted By: barrysloateCome on Jim, the left isn't loony. That's kind of insulting. He is certainly far more intelligent than the person he replaced.

Archive

01-21-2009, 06:28 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaJim, I'm not going to argue with you, but I'm interested to hear what indications Obama has given that he's prepared to take the country hard to the left.

Archive

01-21-2009, 07:01 PM

Posted By: PCJim -- I think it far more likely Obama will be the next great practitioner of "triangulation", as mastered by Bill Clinton. I doubt he will do anything to the extent the lunatic left and the Hollywood crowd hope he will do. Yes, he'll throw them a few bones, but he still has to cater to normal, centrist America if he has any hope of being reelected. And yes, he is already thinking about getting reelected. That is Obama's main concern, and his party's only goal for his presidency in the next four years. Whatever the party line is, it means little compared to losing the presidency in four years. In short, expect a lot of spin, and more of the same old same old.

Archive

01-21-2009, 07:04 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI agree Barry--the left is by itself not loony but there is a segment of the left called the loony left that I believe Obama will take his marching orders from. Dan, I honestly believe that Obama will try to pass every program the far left has pushed for over the past 10-20 years. First I am sure you saw that he intends to just give every American on welfare $1,000. He will then take the most accelerated tax structure and make it even more so by reducing taxes for the poor and what he calls the middle class and increasing it on the most productive of our society--from already a record percentage. The percentage of the population not paying taxes will grow to a majority--the true welfare state. Then watch how rapidly he tries to increase spending --some of which under the guise of us getting out of the recession--some of which because he wants to change our society to a more socialist model. The massive spending will be followed by an equally massive increase on those paying the taxes....and obviously high inflation will follow. As far as the banking system is concerned we are moving toward absolute govt control--including the govt dictating who and where money will be lent to. Health care--expect price contriols, limits on what Doctors can make,healthcare rationing and poorer medical care. Immigration--open the door to as many Mexicans as possible to turn Texas, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona into permanently democratic states. Unionization will grow as secret ballot is repealed. FCC will impose "fairness doctrine" on talk radio fundamentally reducing influence of Rush, Sean, Laura and the Great One. I could go on. The free enterprise system that made this country great will be hugely altered. I think those on this board on the radical left know this and are expecting it to happen. However I also think there are many reasonable people on this board who voted for "change" and they don't know what they are getting themselves into. Jim

Archive

01-21-2009, 07:05 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI'm glad I'm hitting the sack right about now.

Archive

01-21-2009, 07:35 PM

Posted By: leonIf it stays civil I guess we can hear the same thoughts that we all, already know from everyone? I will reserve the right to lock that thread at any time though. I do have a concern about too much socialism but what we have been doing hasn't worked too well lately. We shall see.....and I am hopeful the country starts doing better economically. best regards

Archive

01-21-2009, 07:51 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWell, I'm not here to argue...I've heard Jim's reasoning and I don't agree with it, but it ain't worth fighting about.

Archive

01-21-2009, 08:19 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"Immigration--open the door to as many Mexicans as possible to turn Texas, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona into permanently democratic states." Wow. And you think the left is loony?

Archive

01-21-2009, 08:33 PM

Posted By: Richard SimonI don't believe Obama will lie to the American people to start a war, I don't believe Obama will trample on the Constitution, I believe Obama won't embarrass us throughout the world, and I don't think I have "misunderestimated" him. He will follow left-center policies and those who think otherwise will be fooled. Of course don't forget that famous presidential quote,, "fool me once, shame on, shame on you, fool me, you can't get fooled again." DUH,,, I don't think Pete Townsend wrote it that way. George, maybe you shoulda Googled it before speaking. BUSH IS GONE,,the president with a 22% approval rating, the lowest in history, the man who is responsible for the current condition of this country, the world is smiling, truly <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">. Tuesday was a historic day, let us all hope that President Obama succeeds, otherwise all of us will be in trouble. = I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-21-2009, 08:47 PM

Posted By: JoelJim C...what's the name of your old company...the one that went under...the one whose stock was worthless....ya that one...I'd think anyone would want a little more government control after that mess and the countless others which occurred and the future messes which are around the corner. I am a republican and Bush sucked. Obama's got one huge mess on his hands...none of this mess was here 8 year's ago when Bush took over. Did Bush and company just have a lot of bad luck? I'm in WA state and our economy is one of the better ones around..umemployment hit 7.1 percent today. and that's NOT including the 4k WAMU jobs about to go in the next 30 days. Hard to see anyone bashing Obama on day 2, give the guy a chance...even if he does nothing in the next 4 years...that's better than Bush did in 8. The only good thing Bush did was to not pardon Libby. That was surprising considering his gang goes back for decades....too bad more of them weren't tried and convicted.

Archive

01-21-2009, 09:01 PM

Posted By: MikeU"FCC will impose "fairness doctrine" on talk radio fundamentally reducing influence of Rush and Dr. Laura." And you consider this a bad thing?

Archive

01-22-2009, 04:33 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellIn response to two comments. In regards to my comment about doing everything possible to expand the Latino vote to make all the SW states Democratic being loony--I predict Obama will legalize all illegal immigrants who have been in the country 5 years to get them to a stage where they can vote as quickly as possible. I also think he will weaken border controls. On the issue of fairness doctrine--lets see left wing media--NY Times, Boston Globe, LA Times, Washington Post, CBS, NBC. ABC, MSMBC, CNN. Right Wing--Fox News, Successful Talk Radio--yeah seems balanced to me. Anyone who listened to the media euphoria surrounding Obama's inauguration should come away with view that mainstream media in the bag for Obama.

Archive

01-22-2009, 04:52 AM

Posted By: barrysloateWhy shouldn't the media love Obama? He's the complete package, whether you agree with his policies or not. Incredible charisma, beautiful wife, Harvard educated, fiery speaker, he's got it all.

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:02 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, And the left wing media is completely in sync with his socialist agenda...its perfect for them..and you think its great because you are a liberal--but its hardly fair and objective journalism.

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:10 AM

Posted By: barrysloateAmerica is in love with the Obamas, and the media is going with it. It's a great story, and it's what the country wants right now. 80% of the people are fed up and angry at conservative politics, and you can thank Bush for that. He dsstroyed his party, and it may take them a decade or more to recover.

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:18 AM

Posted By: joe brennanI don't see Obama being as far left as Jim predicts. I think he will make more enemies in the Republican party than people think. We needed a smart man to guide us through this time and we elected the best choice we had. He surely can do no worse than the last sitting president. I for one look forward to progress. BTW, I am a republican, but would never have voted for a man who would prolong another useless war. Bring our boys home and improve the economy and he is a success. In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:20 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, That is through the eyes of a liberal--Chris Matthews says there is Lincoln, JFK and Obama. Step away from this and if one analyzes what he is likely to do I think most Americans with traditional values would be appalled. You don't like Bush --I understand. I think he did great things in protecting the country against terrorism. He should have cut non-defense spending a lot more but the Dem majority in House of Senate would not have allowed this. My hope is southern Dems will align with Reps. and block his extremist agenda. Jim

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:48 AM

Posted By: PCTiming is everything for Presidents. Bush came in when times were good, and big problems brewing -- his public approval could only go down. Obama has come in when times are real bad, with those big problems in full force -- his public approval, which will likley go down in the near term, will most likely be positive at the end of his term(s). Blaming Bush for everything is popular, and overly simplistic. He did not create the bad lending practices and the government programs that supported those practices, which brought down the international banking system. Those policies came into being under Clinton, and a liberal Congress. No other President had to deal with such a large scale attack on American soil. His reaction was (necessarily) militaristic, something that will always be unpopular, and vocally unpopular in the left wing press. And if you think Gore would not have gone into Iraq, you're not seeing the big picture, or you've bought into the left wing "Bush vendetta" and "they lied to us" mantras. And as far as trampling the Constitution, no one on this board, and I'm certain no one you know or met, has been denied any Constitutional rights under Bush, whether it be under the Patriot Act or otherwise. Regarding Gitmo, I think it has served its purpose and Obama will close it, but the legal reality is that the "detainees" are not protected by the Constitution. And for the far left that is up in arms over the Patriot Act, but seem to be big FDR fans, try to remember all the things that FDR -- the beloved founder of modern government liberalism -- did, in the face of economic and military crises, all of which make the Patriot Act and Gitmo appear inconsequential. FDR's two biggest violations include incarcerating American citizens based on race (the Japanese internment camps), and he tried to expand the Supreme Court to pack it with judges sympathetic to his most clearly unconstitutional policies and programs. And he ran for a third term ... viewed now and then as dictatorial. Oh, don't forget Pearl Harbor and WWII. I'm not a Bush fan. I think he listened to bad advice, and could have done better. But if you think our economic, foreign relation and environmental problems would not have existed under Gore or Kerry, then I think you give far too much credit to some, and too much blame to others. I certainly hope things improve under Obama. We need him to be successful.

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:55 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI think Americans with traditional values will embrace Obama. I think you are wrong there.

Archive

01-22-2009, 05:57 AM

Posted By: Richard Simon"But if you think our economic, foreign relation and environmental problems would not have existed under Gore or Kerry" In reference to this quote,,, Gore would never have invaded Iraq. = I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 06:42 AM

Posted By: John K The Right seems to fear socialism. Bush seems to have given it to us already, in large degree. As Robert Reich said in 2008, "We have Socialism for the Rich and Capitalism for everyone else." On another topic, the Grey Wolf may be able to breathe easier after Jan 20.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:27 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblitt"BUSH IS GONE,,the president with a 22% approval rating, the lowest in history, the man who is responsible for the current condition of this country, the world is smiling, truly." Ah....but the vast majority of congress with the mid teens approval rating are still firmly ensconced to protect us! The only group with a LOWER rating than Bush.....

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:33 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzTrue. But they have far less power to do ill.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:40 AM

Posted By: Jim VBTom, The ironic thing is, that while Congress, as a whole, has low approval ratings, almost every single Representative and Senator has good to excellent ratings from his own district or state. 80% of the country sees Congress as ineffective, but it's NEVER our guy. It's ALWAYS the other people's guy who stinks.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:43 AM

Posted By: Tom BoblittThey're all a bunch of liars and cheats the whole lot of them. Only way to make it into politics. May seem a little cynical, but we now have Geithner(sp?) and Holder and others. Just a new bunch of crooks running things. Some people like this group of crooks better, some liked the last! One thing for sure, no shortage of crooks in politics..................

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:43 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonSaying that only Congress has a lower public approval rating than Bush is not correct. That renowned war hero Dick Cheney,(I think he had four deferments during the Vietnam war because he was too busy to serve his country in uniform)has a lower public approval rating than Congress. I would have been proud to have served with you Dick, where were you? Congratulations Mr. Cheney, only you coulda been ranked worse than Congress in the public eye. ps. Very,very good point JimVB.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:48 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI love the fact that Obama has bigtime swagger. Finally a President who brings something more to the table than a brisk walk and stiff facial expressions. The dude was grooving and is not afraid to be himself. His record speaks for itself in the accomplishment category. My only fear is that the tide can shift almost instantly so he better watch with the rock god adulation. People have very high expectations and i'm quite sure they do not understand true politics or the Washington machine. I live a hour from DC and the town can eat you alive if your not careful. Good luck Obama and welcome to the jungle.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:51 AM

Posted By: Rob D.Best. Post. Ever.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:53 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted......you remind me of the "LONE RANGER" besieged in the old Wild West. With the exception of an accurately informative post by Stephen Mitchell.....and TOM B.....you are outnumbered by the "usual suspects", whose comments are strictly dictated by emotion, and not reality. Riding in to "rescue" is "TONTO TED" with 2 Colt 45's blazing (hey guys, I actually own these antiques from the Civil War era). Stephen M. spoke of the post-Depression period and I'll further elaborate for the benefit of our uninformed posters here. Hoover was the President on that 1st "day of infamy" when the "Great Depression" occurred on Oct. 29th, 1929. Hoover used his "bully pulpit" to try to rally the American people with his "optimistic" speeches in 1930-32; however, mere words were very ineffective. In 1933 FDR took over and increased the Big Government remedies in an attempt to restore the country's economic woes. FDR's policies were very similar to what our politicians are doing now. FDR's policies DID NOT alleviate the economic woes, as is evident in the following UNEMPLOYMENT numbers for the 12 years following the Depression...... 1930....25.5% 1935....20.3% 1936....16.9% 1937....14.3% 1938....19.1% 1939....17.2% 1940....14.8% It was not till 1942 that the Unemployment figures finally dropped. It took WWII to reduce unemployment to an unprece- dented low of 1.9%. So, let's hope that our new President learns from this history....eloquent and grandious rhetoric will not pull us out of our current economic problems....nor will "Big Government" policies. Allow the American people the freedom to control more of their hard earned $$$$$....however they so desire. And, watch this current recession vanish within a year. Too many of our politicians have forgotten, or have ignored George Santayana's famous aphorism...... "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it".

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:53 AM

Posted By: Tom BoblittCan Obama BRING THE NOISE? what about bringing the funk? We never get that one. Just a little humor.......don't flame me...........

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:03 AM

Posted By: Tom BoblittThe ironic thing is, that while Congress, as a whole, has low approval ratings, almost every single Representative and Senator has good to excellent ratings from his own district or state. That's because, as a whole, we realize Congress really sucks sticking all this crappy pork onto every miniscule worthwhile Bill, but no one complains when some grant is awarded to measure the viscosity of ketchup that creates 10 jobs in Pocatello, Idaho...............

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:06 AM

Posted By: Ryan ChristoffWhat this country really needs is more pompous rhetoric from the fascist uber-right for the benefit of the uninformed. Too bad there's no one on this board that could fill such a void. -Ryan

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:10 AM

Posted By: barrysloateTed- well I guess that makes me one of the usual suspects. But I do agree his rhetoric alone will not save the country. He has to produce. But you know what, we are so much better off with Obama in charge than we were the last eight years that I will guarantee an improvement. We just ended one of the darkest eras in our country's history.

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:10 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblittof the Uberleftists either.................

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:21 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonAs usual the rightists on the board will skewer figures to advance their hard line ideological right wing agenda. The view that the New Deal accomplished little, that only WWII ended the Depression, is very widely held. But it is not correct. It is based on a mis-reading of reconstructed unemployment statistics from that time, which treat the workers actually employed by the New Deal as though they were unemployed. Which they were not. So it is fundamentally incorrect to argue that FDR's New Deal did nothing and that only the Second World War actually got the American economy out of the Great Depression. Such historical revisionism has been made popular during the past 25 years by a cadre of ideologically motivated economists and historians. These two paragraphs are taken from a lengthy essay at: <a href="http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/21/unemployment_statistics_of_the_new_deal_era" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/21/unemployment_statistics_of_the_new_deal_era</a>/ == I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:51 AM

Posted By: Joe JonesI tend to vote for who I think is the best person for the job.

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:03 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedThese Unemployment figures I posted are out of the World Almanac (80 million copies sold). 1930....25.5% 1935....20.3% 1936....16.9% 1937....14.3% 1938....19.1% 1939....17.2% 1940....14.8% 1945.....1.9% So people....I ask you, is the World almanac "ideological motivated" ? ? Richard....you and your rhetoric are the ones that are ideological motivated.....get real ! ! And, quit your super leftist-propaganda bull-crap on this forum.

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:11 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonTed - as long as right wing idealogues post her, I think I have just as much right as you do to post. How dare you tell me to quit posting,,, or is that just George Bush and your favorite of all, Tricky Dick, rubbing off on you. == I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:17 AM

Posted By: WillI don't think it would be difficult at all to cause at least, let's see ... one, two, three, hell, four people on this board to expire today by way of coronary if we so decided. But, too much work today though it might be fun to try. One good way to summarize presidential politics and influence is to look at the differnces between Clinton and Bush and then try to figure where Obama fits in. Following is my PSA political scale: On a scale of 1-10, 1 being Communist left and 10 being Nazi Fascist right, Bill Clinton was about a 5.5. Bush was about an 8.5/9. This democracy appears to work better when you have someone in the middle at the controls who's willing to do some compromising. Clinton did and the US had unprecendeted wealth and world influence. Bush did not and, well, look around. Obama is likely a little left of Clinton but, face it, politics at that level are completely controlled by major corporations and the collosal budget of the military. They'd never allow a president to shift much farther left (on my scale) then to, say, a 4 so we're likely to do a lot better with Obama then we did with Bush (despite that being a pathetically low bar).

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:24 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonFunny stuff Will, but if kidney cancer didn't kill me, then I don't think this board will do it either. And I like your analysis of Obama-Bush-Clinton. == I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:32 AM

Posted By: WillDon't worry, Richard, you're not on the list of likely candidates.

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:46 AM

Posted By: gotwinsTed, I'm with Richard on this one. Before you call bullcrap, you should look in the mirror. First, the unemployment numbers you use start in 1930--why? FDR did not take office until 1933. All you show with your first, largest number is just how bad it was under Hoover. Second, the unemployment rate FDR inherited in 1933 was just about 25%. Even using your figures, he made a significant drop to 20% in two years. Another significant drop to under 17% occurred the next year. On what basis do you believe the rates should have dropped more dramatically and/or would have if your glorious Republican ideology were followed? None. In fact, it is widely held among economists that the unemployment spike in 1938 is in large part due to FDR's decision to act more conservatively in his policies, as he focused on balancing the budget. Included in the fold of economists who believe this conservative approach was untimely is Paul Krugman, you know, the guy who just won the Nobel Prize in economics. Finally, FDR brought us much overdue regulation in areas that brought about and/or worsened the economic collapse-- banking and Wall Street. Sound familiar? The FDIC and SEC were both created under Roosevelt in response to the abuses in stocks and banking practices. A true man of action took action, rather than simply chant the "we don't need no regulation" "let the market dictate everything" "government is nothing but intermeddling" claptrap I keep hearing from the self-righteous right. Give the new guy a chance, rather than taking early aim at policies which may very well work and which are needed and which cannot possibly worse than those left by the biggest pinhead to ever sit in the Oval Office.

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:52 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedI will repeat the question.... " So people....and Richard....I ask you, is the World almanac "ideological motivated" ? " And Richard, as usual you have the facts confused......you said about me.... "your favorite of all, Tricky Dick, rubbing off on you." During my lifetime, one of my favorite Presidents is John F. Kennedy....the very 1st President I voted for in 1960. And, another one of my favorite Presidents is Ronald Reagan, who I voted for twice. Both these Presidents supported a strong Military; and.....CUT TAXES ! Kennedy in today's environment would be considered a CONSERVATIVE ! ! Can you "dig" that Richard ? Or, is this beyond your ability to comprehend this fact ? ?

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:57 AM

Posted By: JohnGShoelessJJ said in reference to Obama(I paraphrased) " His record speaks for itself in the accomplishment category." Are you serious? Could you or anyone post a list of his "Accomplishments"? I'd sure like to see such a list.

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:22 AM

Posted By: Richard Simon"is the World almanac "ideological(ly) motivated" ?" To answer this question,,,the World Almanac is of course not ideologically motivated, but regarding the figures they used, did those figures include the workers that were working on New Deal projects. The numbers would change greatly then. And I am sure JFK today would have been an advocate of gay rights, woman's choice rights, against the Iraq war, and many other liberal positions. And regarding the tax cuts,,, Bush was the only president in history to cut taxes during wartime, (2 wars not just 1),,, how well has that worked out? Was it ok for me to answer you Ted, or do I have to ask your permission to speak out again? And I got the info on you and Tricky Dick from a prior post of yours, in another thread, in which you (I think I remember this correctly) defended him,, (boy talk about minority positions) and attacked Woodward and Bernstein. = I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:30 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedHey guy......go back and re-read what I posted Why did I start with 1930....wasn't the Depression at the end of 1929 ? I don't understand where you are coming from with that question ? The year 1929 culminated the "Roaring Twenties", a period of high living. Very similar to our recent scenario, where the Housing Market was "booming" and the Stock Market's DOW climbed to 14,000. The Roaring 20's and Hoover are directly responsible for the Depression which caused 25% Unemployment by 1930. When FDR took over in 1933, his solutions to try and restore our economy were "Big Government" type remedies. It is well documented that FDR's policies (which were very similar to what our politicians are doing now) only exacerbated this country's economic woes. And, dragged out our depressed economy for another 8 years. But, if you are comfortable with all these multi-Billion (or Trillion) dollar bailouts, then I cannot convince you of anything....and, I will not waste my time trying to. It's your children and my grandchildren that will be burdened with inevitable future HIGH TAXES to pay for these policies. I would rather that the 100 Million middle-class working people be given $10.000 TAX rebates (that's a Trillion), then give these $$$$$$ to the culprits and institions that created this economic mess.

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:37 AM

Posted By: Richard Simon"I would rather that the 100 Million middle-class working people be given $10.000 TAX rebates (that's a Trillion), then give these $$$$$$ to the culprits and institions that created this economic mess." - Ted Z Well at least we can agree on something Ted, though I must say I think that deregulation caused these problemss and that has gone on with greatly increased velocity in the past eight years. In addition to deregulation I guess you have to toss in greed also. == I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:44 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellWhew--thanks for joining in Ted--at last someone with some sense. I never thought the left wing coalition of labor unions, minorities, college profs and the mainstream media could include sports card collectors but I guess it could be wrong.

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:46 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI agree- these bailouts are horrendous, nobody knows where the money is going, there seems to be no accountability, and it already seems clear that they are not working. Bailing out banks, instead of people, is the wrong way to go. Help out the middle class by giving them a huge tax rebate. If one fails, good riddance. There are other banks.

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:51 AM

Posted By: LetsGoBucsFirst, I also want to wish the new president well. I hope that in four years he wins a massive landslide re-election, because that would mean we've made great strides in the USA. Second, I'm a "right-wing conservative". I'm also an American and proud of it. For those that want to bash Bush for everything wrong in the country, I'd say blame him for foreign policy (which he is responsible for), blame him for the handling of the war (he is commander in chief), but lets make sure we lay plenty of blame at the doorstep of individuals and Congress for overspending. For regulations passed under Clinton that Congress refused to reconsider and regulators that were a joke. Lets also acknowledge that there hasn't been another terrorist attack in the USA. That doesn't make the war on terror policy correct, but it is a fact (even if you say it was luck). But overall I think everyone can agree that in the past four years especially the country has not made great strides. Third, I think Obama will be somewhat like Clinton. I think he's pragmatic. I think he's chosen people from a range of philosophies to surround himself with and will listen to. His biggest challenge will be that really for the first time he is running the show. And yes he ran a very effective campaign, but this is just a little bit bigger <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> The one thing that I really believe pulls this country apart was mentioned earlier. How can half of the people not pay taxes? My father was far from wealthy, far from middle-class, and in a good year was "lower-middle-class". He paid taxes, he never complained about it, he never felt someone else should pay his taxes for him. Our current situation leaves half the people believing things can be "free" and the other half believing they are being robbed. I personally believe in a progressive tax system. I believe those that benefit the most from our freedoms should contribute more to maintaining them. I am willing to pay more taxes as I realize that we have to balance the budget (then I want my taxes reduced). I also believe that everyone has a responsibility to contribute. I truly hope Obama meant what he said about responsibility. I hope he follows through and that we don't see "bailout" of homeowners that bought an extra 200 or 300K of house that they couldn't afford. That we don't see any more bank bailouts with executives earning millions per year. That he doesn't give California and other fiscally irresponsible states billions to continue spending money on programs that in essence just exist to get people re-elected. We as a country have a lot of cleaning up to do and we do need to pick ourselves up, brush ourselves off, and suck it up and work hard to get back to even. And no better way to convey that message than through actions that force individuals to take responsibility, states to take responsibility, Congress to take responsibility (ok they are idiots but I hope he can use the bully pulpit to force them to at least not do any more damage), etc, etc, etc. Good Luck Mr President

Archive

01-22-2009, 10:53 AM

Posted By: sagardBottom line is that if Bush (and republicans) would have been a conservative the republicans would have never lost power. The far left and the far right are both up in arms with Obama, so he must be off to a good start.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:08 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaJohnG wrote: "Are you serious? Could you or anyone post a list of his "Accomplishments"? I'd sure like to see such a list." -Columbia graduate -Harvard Law graduate -Head of the Harvard Review -Illinois State Senator -United States Senator -President of the United States Your turn to list your accomplishments JohnG

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:09 AM

Posted By: J LevineHow is this for the most disgusting thing on TV last night...local news ran a story on one of Arnold's proposed taxes...In California, the state tax on a bottle of wine is 4 cents. Arnold wants to up that to something like 30 cents. This is not 30 cents on the dollar but 30 cents on the bottle of wine regardless of cost. They interviewed several people including a multi-millionaire who was upset that the wine tastings he routinely has at his house is going to cost him an extra $1000-$1500 a year. He makes nearly 8 million dollars a year and he is worried about $1000!!! It makes me sick...I pay $1000 a year for classroom supplies that used to be given free. And this multimillionaire is worried about his damn parties...it makes me sick. BTW, the wine tax would net the state a substantial amount of money but nowhere near what we need. Joshua

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:15 AM

Posted By: Patrick McHughGeorge W Bush was the best president we have ever had. The economic problem was brought on by the every one must own a house democrats. Although most of you do not see it now Bushes unwavering policy of this country will never be attaced again as long as i am in charge proved true. There are so many people-terrorists in this world just waiting to bring down america i hope the Obama team is ready. I for one am thankful for Mr. Bush and his tough on terrorist policys which have enabaled me to live with freedom and dignity the last 7 years. Just keep downing Bush and keep beliving that your rights and freedom were not protected by him. Wake up! Do you not remember 9/11? I guess if you have not served you do not understand.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:16 AM

Posted By: Todd Schultz"It is well documented that FDR's policies (which were very similar to what our politicians are doing now) only exacerbated this country's economic woes. And, dragged out our depressed economy for another 8 years." Maybe on Planet Ted, where apparently FOX news is the only source of information. Again, many/ most economists and the world's current Nobel prize holder in economics state otherwise. "In a November 10, 2008, New York Times column, Krugman wrote that Roosevelt's policies included "long-run achievements" that "remain the bedrock of our nation's economic stability" and that Roosevelt's short-term successes were constrained because "his economic policies were too cautious." Krugman further wrote: Now, there's a whole intellectual industry, mainly operating out of right-wing think tanks, devoted to propagating the idea that F.D.R. actually made the Depression worse. So it's important to know that most of what you hear along those lines is based on deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. The New Deal brought real relief to most Americans." "Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, wrote: "In reality, any careful reading showed that the New Deal policies substantially ameliorated the effects of the Great Depression for tens of millions of people. The major economic failing of the New Deal was that President Roosevelt was not prepared to push the policies as far as necessary to fully lift the economy out of the Great Depression." Baker continued: Roosevelt was too worried about the whining of the anti-stimulus crowd that he confronted. He remained concerned about balancing the budget when the proper goal of fiscal policy should have been large deficits to stimulate the economy. Roosevelt's policies substantially reduced the unemployment rate from the 25 percent peak when he first took office, but they did not get the unemployment rate back into single digits." "Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke -- appointed by President George W. Bush -- wrote in his Essays on the Great Depression, "Only with the New Deal's rehabilitation of the financial system in 1933-35 did the economy begin its slow emergence from the Great Depression." So learn to listen to someone other than Bret Hume and you may take a more "fair and balanced" understanding of what occurred with the New Deal.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:19 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaGood for Ahnold...now they should legalize marijuana and prostitution - both of which will exist no matter what penalties exist on the law books. Tax them and see what kind of revenue comes in from that. Removes the criminal element, brings in money for the state, reduces the tax burden, and the jails won't be so overcrowded.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:20 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedMe...... " I would rather that the 100 Million middle-class working people be given $10,000 TAX rebates (that's a Trillion), then give these $$$$$$ to the culprits and institutions that created this economic mess. - Ted Z " Richard...... "Well at least we can agree on something Ted, though I must say I think that deregulation caused these problems and that has gone on with greatly increased velocity in the past eight years. In addition to deregulation I guess you have to toss in greed also." Deregulation in the Housing and Stock Markets goes back further than the past 8 years. It goes back to 1979 when Carter initiated the Community Reinvestment Act. And, was exploited to a higher level during the Clinton years. Furthermore, the practice of Mortgage Co's "flipping off" their primary mortgages to speculators during the 1990's thru to the present exacerbated this economic demise. I don't know what to make of your above "agreement" with me....but, I think you can agree with my description of the causal effects of our current economic situation.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedIf you are quoting Krugman, then I will not argue with you. This guy is a full-bred Socialist. I recommend the book that Stephen Mitchell mentioned in an earlier post on this thread......it focuses on the years before, during, and after the Great Depression...."The Forgotten Man", by author Amity Schlaes. Then you can decide for yourself what is real.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:36 AM

Posted By: leonI think you make good points. Victimless crimes shouldn't make for overcrowding in jails. We should reserve that room for the bank executives, auto executives and mortgage executives that are getting golden parachutes when they should be getting pin striped jump suits. LetsGoBucks- You are my hero. A perfectly stated post that I agee with 1 million percent.... The main problems with America- Greed and the lack of individual repsonsibility.....EVREYONE should pay taxes...the more you make the more you pay. If you make 10k per year...your tax can be one dime...but damn it...you are paying as there is no free ride....Ok....now I will get off of my soap box....carry on.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:37 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonTed - If you will notice, I stated deregulation went on with an increased velocity in the last 8 years. I did not state that deregulation started in the last 8 years. I was well aware that deregulation went back 30 years. = I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:38 AM

Posted By: Dave HornishWhy all the debate? It's a known fact the White House has been leaning left for the last 60 years: "White House leans again to the left(ies) By Diane Mapes With the inauguration of President Barack Obama, the left has taken over the White House yet again just as it did with Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. Confused? Dont be. Were talking hands, not political ideology. Im a lefty. Get used to it, Obama said as he signed his first official documents on Tuesday, making him the sixth southpaw-in-chief weve seen since the end of World War II Interestingly, his opponent, John McCain, is also left-handed, as were former presidents Harry Truman and Bill Clinton, former vice presidents Nelson Rockefeller and Henry Wallace and 1992 presidential candidate Ross Perot."

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:44 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaHeh. That's funny Dave...and something I didn't know. I wonder if Reagan had to learn to throw right handed or if he was ambidextrous. <a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/?action=view&current=gcareagan3.jpg"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/gcareagan3.jpg" border="0" alt="Ronald Reagan as GC Alexander"></a> <a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/?action=view&current=gcareagan1.jpg"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/The%20Players/gcareagan1.jpg" border="0" alt="Ronald Reagan as GC Alexander"></a>

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:46 AM

Posted By: Steven FinleyFor those that think the Obama administration is going to collapse with the rest of the country why don't you go ahead and sell me all your cardboard for 20% of the going rate. If you're right, you really should invest in Gold and not cards. I'm generous how about 25%. Like your beloved Bill O'Reilly says it, "You can't take it with you!" P.S. Price adjusted to 22.67%.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:50 AM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedDave Your story left out Clinton who is Left-handed. Also, that reporter has her story wrong on Reagan....he was Right-handed.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:58 AM

Posted By: Jim VBPatrick said: "George W Bush was the best president we have ever had. " Perhaps in some bizzaro-like, parallel universe, but not on the planet earth. He was an intellectually disinterested man who allowed those surrounding him to run things. He will go down in history as one of, if not the, worst President in the history of the USA. For the record, I am a life long Republican who has voted for Democrats exactly three times in my life, and two of those were purely anti-Bush votes. My vote for Obama was a protest to the GOP for what we have become. The last eight years have divided our country more deeply than at any time since the Civil War. For the GOP to become successful again, the key is to heal that divide, not widen it. Both sides have their extremists. Always have. Always will. But roughly 80% of our country is centrist in their thinking. To allow a party to be led by the 10% on their fringe is suicidal.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:59 AM

Posted By: GlennThe same goes for a baseball card forum, methinks.

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:01 PM

Posted By: Richard SimonKudos to JimVB for a very well written and thought provoking post. = I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:01 PM

Posted By: Jim VBTed, Reagan wrote with his right hand, but often told people that he was left-handed in everything else he did. Writing right-handed was forced upon Reagan by strict school teachers when he was young.

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaReagan and I have something in common here. My Kindergarten teacher turned me into a righty and that was only 36 years ago. I still do many things left handed...including the computer mouse. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:15 PM

Posted By: DougI'm waiting to get my "Do you smell what Barack is cookin'?" T-shirt! Seriously, he has a mess to deal with and I hope he can do something to improve it.

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:17 PM

Posted By: dan mckeeAgreed Jim with the entire statement starting this thread. I personally think he will do a spectacular job which is what will be needed to dig us out of this mess. He won my vote. Dan.

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:18 PM

Posted By: Jim VBDan, I went to Catholic schools for 13 years (K-12). In the 1960's and early 1970's. We had nuns. Creating a few new righties was far down their list of "accomplishments." <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:27 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI went to public schools and I'm sure in 1972 they were no longer thinking lefties were EEEEVIL. My mother says I showed no preference when I entered school...I would write/color/eat with whatever hand suited me at the moment so they chose right for me. I'm pretty sure they were wrong though with my tendency to still do many things left handed.

Archive

01-22-2009, 12:46 PM

Posted By: JimBJust came back and noticed 90+ posts on this thread I started. I would like to personally thank everybody who kept political agendas out of it. JimB

Archive

01-22-2009, 01:18 PM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedDITTO to...... " Reagan and I have something in common here. My Kindergarten teacher turned me into a righty and that was only 36 years ago. I still do many things left handed...including the computer mouse. My left hand and my left foot are large than my right. I should have been a natural left hander. I too, do the mouse as a lefty....I bat better as a lefty....I occasionally play tennis as a lefty. My backhand is better than my forehand. This, and batting lefty, are better simply because of the "leading eye" factor. The vision in my right eye is better than my left eye. TED Z

Archive

01-22-2009, 03:25 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"Hey guy......go back and re-read what I posted Why did I start with 1930....wasn't the Depression at the end of 1929 ? I don't understand where you are coming from with that question?" Perhaps you should re-read, Ted. You were trying to make the point that FDR's policies did not bring down unemployment. It makes no sense, then to begin with 1930. You should have begun with the unemployment rate in 1933, the year FDR, took office. And, as was pointed out by gotwins, the numbers you posted show that FDR's policies worked, and worked well. "It is well documented that FDR's policies (which were very similar to what our politicians are doing now) only exacerbated this country's economic woes. And, dragged out our depressed economy for another 8 years." Care to back this absurd statement up with facts and/or numbers? Get busy with that World Almanac. "It's your children and my grandchildren that will be burdened with inevitable future HIGH TAXES to pay for these policies. " Yeah. The two trillion for the worse-than useless Iraq war won't be any problem at all, though.

Archive

01-22-2009, 03:33 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"Reagan wrote with his right hand, but often told people that he was left-handed in everything else he did. Writing right-handed was forced upon Reagan by strict school teachers when he was young." As it was forced upon almost all lefties, including Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig (and my father.)

Archive

01-22-2009, 03:39 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"George W Bush was the best president we have ever had." Bwa ha ha ha ha... (Excuse me; I couldn't help myself.) Abraham Lincoln, wherever he is these days, must be extremely surprised. "Wake up! Do you not remember 9/11? I guess if you have not served you do not understand." Served? You mean like how Bush and Cheney served?

Archive

01-22-2009, 06:24 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI have laid off of this hanging curveball of a thread awhile but I just can't help myself any longer. First let me say, I am mostly apolitical and a moderate. I always vote my conscience and my pocketbook. I am neither red nor blue although I err to the conservative and those of you who have fifteen-year-old daughters understand. I love my family, I love my country. I have served my country honorably in action and am proud of who I am and who we are. I am not sure who said it but I am an advocate of the phrase Love your country unconditionally. Love your government because they deserve it. I wish the current administration well no, it's more than that. I want them to be successful because we need more than change. We need action. This stewardship must be successful. We have been weathering a virulent storm on so many fronts for so long - and there are still dark clouds on the the horizon. There is a lot of work to be done. History does not begin with this president. The oceans will not stop rising, the planet will not begin healing itself, and I will not get that pony I have been wishing for since my 9th birthday just because Mr. Obama has ascended. We need results not just effort. Now then ,I feel compelled to say, I am not warmed by Mr. Obamas first bold course of action of signing an order to shutter Guantanamo prison within a year saying it violates domestic and international detainee rights as well as providing for the prompt and appropriate disposition of the individuals currently detained to further the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice. Well gosh, we shouldn't violate anyones rights just because their sole purpose in life is to kill us all and destroy our country by whatever means available to them! And what exactly does disposition mean anyway? I think it means these folks are going back to where they came from on their Mr. Obama Get Out Of Jail Free Card. You think they will just go away? I think not. Do I have a solution or an alternative? No. But I do know you cannot negotiate with terrorists and anarchists. It is one hundred percent counter to their agenda. We will see them again in one form or another and it will not be good. My one political post for the year. It is not about an agenda, espousing hate, promoting torture, fermenting xenophobia, polarization or baiting anyone. It is about keeping our country a safe, secure place for us and ours. hanks.

Archive

01-22-2009, 06:35 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaTorture doesn't work. Ask John McCain who named the offensive line of the Green Bay Packers while being tortured to give up names. And Gitmo has become a symbol around the world of injustice. I'm pretty sure none of the prisoners will just be released without a trial...they'll probably be relocated to federal prisons while that process takes place. The United States should never hold people indefinitely without giving them a day in court and that should hold for non-citizens too.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:03 PM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"And Gitmo has become a symbol around the world of injustice." --To people who would look for an excuse to bash America. I would hope that using children as human shields in war, blowing up girls' schools because girls should not be educated, beheading gays and those who would dare to convert to a different religion, storing bombs inside mosques and preaching genocide are bigger symbols around the world of injustice.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:10 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzI would hope so too, Jeff, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe it's because the people and/or nations that are doing that have never served as the symbol of freedom, fairness, and justice for all, as our country has done. They have never deeply disappointed the world by their cowardly actions. We have.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:15 PM

Posted By: Bob"George W Bush was the best president we have ever had. " Sigh.... And Mussolini made all the trains run on time.....

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:20 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThe United States should set the standard. ALWAYS! There is no excuse for how the terrorists act and we should never stoop to their level.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:23 PM

Posted By: Bob"My hope is southern Dems will align with Reps. and block his extremist agenda" Jim, I hate to burst your bubble but the South is no longer the conservative, racially driven, backward area of the country it was many decades ago. Southern Democrats are more and more being elected who are Hispanic, African-American and closer to the (shudder) liberal agendas than conservative. While the Republican party in the South is comprised heavily of the Christian Right, the Democratic Party in the South is steadily moving away from the ultra conservative policies of the past and embraces not only liberals but middle of the roaders and will slowly turn the South "blue again" in the future.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:28 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"the Democratic Party in the South is steadily moving away from the ultra conservative policies of the past and embraces not only liberals but middle of the roaders and will slowly turn the South "blue again" in the future." It's already begun. Hence, this congratulatory thread.

Archive

01-22-2009, 07:59 PM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"They have never deeply disappointed the world by their cowardly actions. We have." I hardly think that our actions in prosecuting the war on terror could be considered to be cowardly -- especially when compared with some of the atrocious things done by our enemy, radical Islamists. That's sort of a blame America first mentality to some degree. And the followers of radical Islam use our decency and our desire to be humane against us -- it's one of their biggest weapons. For example, terrorists hiding amongst civilians so as to avoid being targeted as well as hiding weapons in mosques and hospitals to avoid discovery -- knowing full well American forces will respect the very places they themselves have no respect for. I don't disagree that Americans are better than these people and we should not sink to their level; however, if we don't start adjusting to their monstrous actions by doing away with some of our political correctness we're going to be in more trouble than we are now.

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:16 PM

Posted By: JimBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Thanks again to everybody who respected the purpose of this thread. JimB

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:24 PM

Posted By: Fred CGobama I couldn't imagine anyone wanting Obama to do anything but succeed in pulling this country out of this economic mess. Is it possible? I don't know but I sure hope he can do it. The truly sad part about Obama is that he is inheriting an economy that is arguably one of the worst to be turned over to an incoming administration. He will be looked upon to having all the answers and solutions. If he can't get this turned around people will be waiting in line to say what a mistake we made as a nation to elect him as our leader. I think we had no choice. If McCain passes away in the next four years everyone will be saying we made the right move regardless of which way the economy goes. Gobama If they remove the prison from Gtmo what does that get us? Nothing. They'll move the operation to another location. Are there people that actually believe that removing the prison from Gtmo is going to solve anything? Here's where people will be afraid to say they agree with me because I'm going to out myself as some kind of radical. I'm sorry, but does anybody really think that if Gtmo is removed there will be no "exotic" forms of information extraction? Does anybody really care if a suspected terrorist is filled with sodium pentathol in an effort to gather information? Is our government supposed to sit back and wait for someone to "talk" or are we supposed to wait until it's too late? If the government has firm evidence that someone (a terrorist for example) has information that is meant to hurt people then I think I'll play like an ostrich, bury my head in the sand or do a Horatio Nelson and turn a blind eye with regards to how they extract information from those "bad people". Sorry, but that's just the way I feel. If someone is going to debate this, please don't start by feeding me a load of crap that begins with "our rights". I'll gladly let the government take a few liberties if it means that I can sleep better and live to enjoy "our rights".

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:27 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Jim, In all seriousness, what the heck did you expect? Have you ever seen a political thread on this board (at least in the past two years) not take the course this one has taken? I mean, come on. Nice display of indignation, though.

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:31 PM

Posted By: leonHey Jim You throw a morsel of red meat to the sharks and tell them not to attack? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> C'mon my friend... You did try though. I give you much credit for that, even if I had to throw a small bit into the fray....sorry about that. It was a very well inentioned thread and a good one. I do know that. I will go back to my original statement. I wish President Obama the best and hope he has great success. It won't be easy.....best regards edited to add that Rob (hey Rob) posted while I was posting....or I might not have said the same thing....but I knew I liked him for some reason.....

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:39 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"I hardly think that our actions in prosecuting the war on terror could be considered to be cowardly" Torture and rendition--paying someone else to do your torturing for you--are certainly cowardly acts. And hiding weapons and fighters amongst civilians is cowardly as well. But it no longer works. Israel just proved that. And if push comes to shove, we'd do exactly the same as Israel. (As well we should.)

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:39 PM

Posted By: marty q jimb- honestly, did you think your thread would go over nicely?? you had to have known where it would go giving the boards "past" on subjects as sensitive as this would be another ""exploding bomb"". i knew as soon as i read it what the outcome would be. and as usual it brings out a certain few who post only when there is a discussion not pertaining to what this board is about "BASEBALL CARDS" . and once again the board lets down all who come here to read a few posts on their spare time on just that. the hundreds or thousands of lurkers must be saying to themselves "here we co again, and again , and again, etc etc etc etc. i think now you wished you never would have posted this...me too.

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:42 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzThe thread is clearly labeled "OT." Meaning "off topic." And the topic is baseball cards. Thus, no cards in this thread. If all you're interested in is cards, don't open the OT threads. Not very difficult, really.

Archive

01-22-2009, 08:54 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"if we don't start adjusting to their monstrous actions by doing away with some of our political correctness we're going to be in more trouble than we are now." Are you referring to such "politically correct" niceties as habeas corpus? Or requiring a warrant before wiretapping? If you are, don't worry. We've already done away with them. (I heard a rumor, though, that they're about to be restored.)

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:40 PM

Posted By: Glenn"I am not sure who said it but I am an advocate of the phrase Love your country unconditionally. Love your government because they deserve it." I don't know that one either, but I think we can safely rule out George Washington.

Archive

01-22-2009, 09:41 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanthe hundreds or thousands of lurkers must be saying to themselves "here we co again, and again , and again, etc etc etc etc. i think now you wished you never would have posted Marty do you really believe there are that many people watching a baseball card message board? I must also say that i am shocked to read some of the posts in regards to Obama closing Gtmo . No matter what anyone says their were more fatalities on Sept 11 2001 than Pearl Harbor and we all know Truman's response to that attack. The bastards at Gtmo should have been be-headed and have the heads mailed back to their families to understand that we can fight fire with fire. To many people are critical of Bush and some of his policies and i think those same people should watch the tape of individuals jumping out of the twin towers falling to their death and just how many families were destroyed that tragic day.

Archive

01-22-2009, 11:48 PM

Posted By: J Levinethat two wrongs do not make a right. Joshua

Archive

01-23-2009, 04:15 AM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"Torture and rendition--paying someone else to do your torturing for you--are certainly cowardly acts." So torture by onesself is not cowardly? What about flying planes into buildings in an effort to kill innocents?

Archive

01-23-2009, 04:48 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellJeff, In the eyes of the loony left, flying planes into buildings was a plot between the US and Israel so Bush could use it as a pretext for invading Iran.

Archive

01-23-2009, 04:56 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzLearn to parse a sentence, Jeff. The one above states that torture and rendition are both cowardly acts. The hyphenated segment merely defines rendition. More to the point, you are (intentionally, I think) missing the point. I never said the other side has not committed--and continues to commit cowardly acts. Indeed, I began by stating that they do. The point though, is that we're supposed to be better than them. We have a more than two-century old standard to maintain. They don't. We are (or at least once were) looked up to by the rest of the world. They were not. Should we fly their airplanes into their buildings?

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:01 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzRight, Jim. And the ridiculous right thinks that illegal immigration is a plot to turn the red states blue. (And that George W. Bush was the best president this country has ever had.)

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:01 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBob, I hate to burst your bubble but there are now 51 Blue Dog Democrats in the House whose agenda does not sound like the Barack socialist plan for America. The formula for southern democrats is 95% of the African American vote, 80% of the Hispanic and perhaps 25% of the white vote. The Blue Dogs have significantly grown in strength. You may think the southern voter has turned liberal being up near Canada but I spend a lot of time in the south and they haven't--if anything I think the Southern white voter is mre conservative.

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:14 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanNo David, we won't fly our planes into their buildings because we are not a culture which glorifies death over life, unlike radical Islam. And I say this respectfully -- seriously: instead of limiting my rhetoric to a baseball chat board I actually spent the last eight years fighting the Bush government in an effort to enforce constitutional rights for those arrested and charged with crimes. The inclusion of dracnoian new laws quietly slipped into the Patriot Act having nothing to do with the war on Islamic terror was pitiful; however, I can't say that I'm concerned with any efforts made by our government to keep us safe from Muslim terror. And those picked off the battlefield don't merit the rights that those charged with crimes in the United States Code do. That's just the way I feel. Imagine how the jihadists are laughing when they read that their brothers in Gitmo are receiving Gameboys and lawyers. Anyway, I don't want to turn this thread (any further) into a referendum on the use of torture because while I don't agree with some of the posters here on this issue I am certain that no one's heart is in the wrong place here, which I think is of paramount importance.

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:16 AM

Posted By: joe brennanRe: Congrats to Obama (OT) January 22 2009, 2:58 PM Patrick said: "George W Bush was the best president we have ever had. " Perhaps in some bizzaro-like, parallel universe, but not on the planet earth. He was an intellectually disinterested man who allowed those surrounding him to run things. He will go down in history as one of, if not the, worst President in the history of the USA. For the record, I am a life long Republican who has voted for Democrats exactly three times in my life, and two of those were purely anti-Bush votes. My vote for Obama was a protest to the GOP for what we have become. The last eight years have divided our country more deeply than at any time since the Civil War. For the GOP to become successful again, the key is to heal that divide, not widen it. Both sides have their extremists. Always have. Always will. But roughly 80% of our country is centrist in their thinking. To allow a party to be led by the 10% on their fringe is suicidal. Best post I've seen in a long time. In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

Archive

01-23-2009, 08:00 AM

Posted By: PCPersonally, I am disappointed that Bin Laden hasn't been caught, and that I still have to pay my mortgage.

Archive

01-23-2009, 08:28 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblittat least on the mortgage........ Bin Laden's at Epcot right now...........

Archive

01-23-2009, 08:34 AM

Posted By: Jim VBTom, Bin Laden is NOT at Epcot. Stop with the rumors! He's driving a cab in NYC. He does his best to avoid all tunnels and bridges however, which is tough in that city.

Archive

01-23-2009, 09:01 AM

Posted By: AlanLeon - I'm really impressed that you didn't lock the thread yet. You're getting more tolerant in your old age <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif"><img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif"><img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">

Archive

01-23-2009, 09:30 AM

Posted By: Richard SimonInstead of fighting a neo con nightmare war, perhaps the right war that is going on in Afghanistan would have led to the death or capture of Bin Laden. Even the generals are saying we are LOSING the war in Afghanistan. How will we ever kill Bin Laden if that is what is happening. Thanks to Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith and all the other neo cons , who probably never served in the military (for sure Cheney never did, four deferments during Vietnam), for the deaths of over 4000 American soldiers and the lifetime destruction of the lives of hundreds of thousands of American wounded and Iraqi dead and wounded. = I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. Unknown author -- We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember. No retreat baby, no surrender. The Boss

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:14 PM

Posted By: John K Joel Kotkin: The End of Upward Mobility. "the top 1% of US households' . . . net worth is now greater than that of the bottom 90% of the nation's households combined (data compiled by Citigroup)." Seems fair.

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:22 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzOf course it's fair, John. Those 1% work much harder, and are far more productive than the bottom 90%. It's true. Jim Crandell told me.

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:53 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDavid, who do you hate most: a) rich people b) Islamic terrorists c) all of the above

Archive

01-23-2009, 05:55 PM

Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohend) himself?

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:00 PM

Posted By: Rob D.No way is the answer b.

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:10 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellIf Obama went for the flat tax I might alter my opinion on him somewhat. Everybody pay the exact same percentage of what they make--no deductions.

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:10 PM

Posted By: Tim SandersA few thoughts...... 1) As much as the distaste for President Obama keeps me up at night, he is now my president and I wish him the best and hope I am wrong. 2) Does everyone agree with the policies of Bush? ... No, but if we are congratulating one man for coming in why are we not thanking one man for 8 years of service? 3) If we are venturing off the topic of the thread, maybe the title should change to January political thread (there seems to be one each month anyway). 4) I still want to know why President Obama wasted his first executive orders on abortion and Gitmo and didn't formally create an "Office of the President Elect" - afterall how green is the man with all those cool signs he has now wasted! 5) Speaking of politics- Jeff when are you going to be on the radio again, I caught you filling in a few weeks ago and even being a Democrat you speak some common sense (but I still miss smoking and you talking about it makes me miss it more!!!)

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:27 PM

Posted By: Fred CJimB, I think, overall, this wasn't too bad. There weren't really any battles on this thread. It's not like anyone that posts in this forum is "too" opinionated (yeah, right). Overall, I would have to believe that most of us (whether or not we voted for Obama) wish him well.

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:43 PM

Posted By: BobBob- I hate to burst your bubble but there are now 51 Blue Dog Democrats in the House whose agenda does not sound like the Barack socialist plan for America. The formula for southern democrats is 95% of the African American vote, 80% of the Hispanic and perhaps 25% of the white vote. The Blue Dogs have significantly grown in strength. You may think the southern voter has turned liberal being up near Canada but I spend a lot of time in the south and they haven't--if anything I think the Southern white voter is mre conservative.> Up near Canada? I have spent the last 42 years of my life living in Arkansas and unless someone has re-done the geographical map of the U.S., Arkansas is in the deep South and always has been. It is the home of Bill Clinton who in 92 and 96 showed the Democratic Party that it could win Southern States by moving away from the right to the center. There are lots of Blue Dogs, but there is a reason these Senators and Representatives are Democrats and not Republicans, they are ideologically closer to the center than the "Christian/Fundamentalist" Right which hijacked the Republican Party in the South. Slowly times are a-changing and the South grows more and more Blue with the combination of not only African-Americans and increasing numbers of Hispanics, but also the growing number of young people who are voting Democratic. The "Old South" is gone. People are beginning to realize that just because someone is for guns, against any kind of abortion and against gay marriage, it is no longer enough. As James Carville once said, "It's about the economy, stupid." That helped Clinton win 2 terms. It helped Obama win this time. I probably don't run with the same crowd you do Jim, maybe the bankers and millionaires are still conservative, but the hard working union members, the single mothers struggling to raise a family, the blue collar workers across the South, the students in our colleges, the Hispanics striving to find the American dream and the African-Americans seeking to realize theirs, the influx of folks from the North and West coming to the Sunbelt, and so many other groups realize who represents their interests and who doesn't. Statistics also show that as the number of college graduates increase in the South, so too does the liberal and centrist percentage increase. The face of the South has changed forever.

Archive

01-23-2009, 06:55 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellSorry Bob--I thought you were from Minnesota. I have only been to Arkansas once--had lunch with Sheffield Nelson in Little Rock. Do you know him?

Archive

01-23-2009, 07:17 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanTim, sorry about that rant about smoking but it (clearly) drives me crazy. I mean, really, the lipstick on the butts that then get tossed on the ground? I'm right, aren't I? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Not sure when I'll be back on again.

Archive

01-23-2009, 07:33 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI don't know what your rant about smokers was all about as I didn't hear it, but what really grinds my gears ($1 to someone) is when someone throws their cigarette out of the car window. Then again some of those folks that actually do use the ashtray in their car dump the whole tray out in my parking lot....I get that at least once or twice a week.

Archive

01-23-2009, 07:58 PM

Posted By: steve yawitzI may be a tree-hugging liberal but I agree with your implied distaste for cultural relativism, Jeff. However, I doubt that the proposed closure of Gitmo is being celebrated by or inducing snickering among Islamic fundamentalists. In fact, I think just the opposite could be true. By closing the facility, we remove a potent symbol: a Guantanamo detainee is probably much more valuable to the skilled propagandists of radical Islam than is an inmate unceremoniously housed in a Supermax facility. The time has come to shutter a facility that may very well have undermined our efforts to contain and hopefully quash such a warped worldview. And to bring us back to cards...Will trade T206's for 1st edition Shepard Fairey "Hope" poster. <a href="http://imageevent.com/yawie99" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://imageevent.com/yawie99</a>

Archive

01-23-2009, 08:00 PM

Posted By: B O'BrienI am a smoker, and an anti-litter kind of guy, but my car doesn't even have an ash tray. For some odd reason they stopped putting them in new cars. It's even from the other side of the pond, where smoking is still OK! Got to pitch them out the window, they stink to bad to keep them inside and they have some side effects on my fine corinthian leather. Not sure what corinthian is, but it always make me chuckle. Check the BST, about to put a nice T out this evening! Take care all, Bob

Archive

01-23-2009, 08:30 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanSteve, I think that is a very fair point: as was often said during the recent Israeli/Hamas conflict, the only thing more valuable to Hamas than a dead Israeli was a dead Palestinian child. In essence, G-Bay became a convenient pretext for many anti-Americans to use to simply bash America. Beyond ironic, surely hilarious, was the screaming and yelling from Islamist corners about the awfulness of the facility, all the while conveniently ignoring their own practices of subjugation of women, genital mutilation, use of children and civilians as shields in warefare, intolerance of religions other than Islam, open discussions of genocide, (real) torture of prisoners, executions of gays, Holocaust denials, etc. etc. etc. Sadly, I think many well-meaning Americans took the bait and joined in the chorus of "America bad" because of the facility. (Of course, the fact that 61 former detainees rejoined Jihad upon release was a minor fact ignored by most of the naysayers -- why let facts get in the way of a good argument?) All that being said, the immediate order closing the facility along with the olive branch extended by Obama in an attempt to "reassure" Muslims is seen by many of our enemies as appeasement and weakness. Time will tell, however, whether Obama is a sniveling appeaser or an effective leader in the war on terror (woops, can't use that phrase anymore, it's offensive). While I didn't vote for the guy, I'm hoping he's of the latter ilk as it will keep us safer and in the end that trumps all. And I do think the fact that Obama is at least capable of making it much harder for our enemies to demonize America is a great thing for our country.

Archive

01-23-2009, 09:07 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaObama is not going to be weak on terror...he's already taken it to them in Pakistan today. <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=asT7dc6h8HyY&refer=asia" target="_new">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=asT7dc6h8HyY&refer=asia</a>

Archive

01-23-2009, 10:05 PM

Posted By: JK"'the top 1% of US households' . . . net worth is now greater than that of the bottom 90% of the nation's households combined (data compiled by Citigroup).' Seems fair." Spoken like a true socialist John. You should feel right at home the next four to eight years.

Archive

01-23-2009, 10:53 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzTo answer your question, Jeff, these are a few of my un-favorite things: a) injustice b) ignorance c) greed d) pomposity e) right-wing, hate-mongering, radio talk-show hosts.

Archive

01-24-2009, 04:48 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblittif the well-intentioned have their way, talk radio may become a thing of the past anyway. Air America didn't really make it, and Limbaugh is currently king of the talk radio but efforts are afoot to curtail him by pushing local ownership rules. Ah.....good to see that the contsitution will be adhered to in this administration as was discussed earlier. Or do you just want to get Jeff off the air?

Archive

01-24-2009, 05:06 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI didn't realize this was such a tough question. I'll try again (with Kenny's helpful addition): Who do you hate the most: a) rich people b) Islamic terrorists c) yourself d) all of the above

Archive

01-24-2009, 05:08 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAnd Dan, I agree, that was very telling.

Archive

01-24-2009, 05:11 AM

Posted By: barrysloateWe're starting to get a little personal here...I'll be sure to stay tuned.

Archive

01-24-2009, 05:13 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellNoone really listens to Air America. Just like no one listens to Keith and Rachel. The radical left wants to stifle one of the very few avenues conservatives have to get their message out there through the sea of the liberal media. Put a conservative host on the air like Sean and its huge--put a left winger on like Keith and ratings are dramatically lower.

Archive

01-24-2009, 05:15 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- I listen to Keith and Rachel almost every night. And most of my friends do, too.

Archive

01-24-2009, 06:25 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, So that explains their .01 rating <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Try Sean Hannity instead of Rachel Barry. Get the fair and honest view instead of the Democratic talking points. Jim

Archive

01-24-2009, 06:29 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- I don't want fair and honest...I want Rachel! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

Archive

01-24-2009, 06:54 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, Based on pictures I have seen of Rachel and her partner I don't think she wants you <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

Archive

01-24-2009, 07:19 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI know Jim- I have a crush on her but she plays for the wrong team!

Archive

01-24-2009, 08:05 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanWait, I missed this. Barry, you have a crush on Maddow? She looks like Fred Flintsone for crying out loud!

Archive

01-24-2009, 08:06 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- it was a joke. But I do enjoy her show.

Archive

01-24-2009, 08:07 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanWhew, ok. All is right in the world again. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">