Submitted 118 T206 PSA 8 for review [Archive]

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12-18-2008, 05:42 AM

Posted By: Fred CJust out of curiosity, how many of these cards are from the Harris Collection? If they change the grade I assume the label would still reflect the provenance of the card, is that correct? Can PSA "downgrade" any of the cards? Or do they strictly only perform "upgrades"? I don't want to sound like I'm peeing in your Cheerios but wouldn't it make sense that if there's a chance of an upgrade that it's also very probable that there would be a chance for a downgrade also?

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12-18-2008, 05:44 AM

Posted By: MattFred - I guess you weren't around here when PSA came out with the half point scale - that policy (only possibility for upgrades) caused some consternation.

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12-18-2008, 05:46 AM

Posted By: MVSNYCFred- Jim has his hands over his Cheerios... <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif"> PSA does not downgrade when they review. good luck Jim, keep us posted.

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12-18-2008, 06:02 AM

Posted By: Marc S.When reholdered, PSA removes the "Harris Collection" designation from the flip. If for not other reason, now that PSA recognizes the advertising back on T206s, there is not enough room for that and the Harris Collection notation. Either way, it is removed. I have a single [FULL sized] PSA 9 example from the Harris Collection, that I have since had reholdered, and I'm slightly happy that the designation is no longer there, as there seems to be an air of suspicion about some/many of the higher-grade examples. M

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12-18-2008, 06:22 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliGood luck, Jim. Keep us posted on how it goes; it will be interesting to see how a potential increase in pops in high-grade T206s impacts the market for those cards. -Al

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12-18-2008, 06:28 AM

Posted By: JohnI think it's silly they dont downgrade but I understand why purely business, keep guys like Jim happy and wanting to spend money at no risk. Sort of like asking your grandma or mum if your a good looking guy...gee wonder what the answer will be.. Good luck Jim, I also dont really think it's that wrong he posted. Heck what's the old joke "telling you I'm telling everyone!" Jim has some nice stuff no reason to be ashamed I can understand why he's proud of his stuff he should be. John

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12-18-2008, 08:15 AM

Posted By: randhey jim, i am glad you made this post, it will be interesting to see how many cards come back at a better grade. i am sure most of the readers on this board do not have the amount of cards to send in for the experiment, and perhaps not the extra funds it takes to pay for 120 cards or so. what is the turn around time for the re-grades? did you keep a record of your own to see what card you thought would get bumped? it will be interesting to see if PSA agrees. no different then when i send my stuff to SGC to see if their opinion is the same as mine.

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12-18-2008, 10:22 AM

Posted By: Anonymous Jim We wish you the very best. We recently had two rare T cards upgraded by PSA, from 8 to 8.5 Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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12-18-2008, 10:28 AM

Posted By: jay woltJim, Good Luck w/ your upgrade quest. Never re-submitted any for bumps myself but its an option that can be exercised. Hopefully a few deserve upgrades to make it worthwhile for your time & expense.

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12-18-2008, 12:25 PM

Posted By: Ted ShermanSince my cards really arent worth too much, I crack them and resubmit. So far 2/3 have gone from 7 to 7.5

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12-18-2008, 01:16 PM

Posted By: Tom BoblittI laugh every time I see that Beyonce commercial..............guess she got paid well to cram that thing in her mouth..............(that's what she said........couldn't resist.......I love The Office..........)

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12-18-2008, 01:17 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellJohn, Rand, Who says I am spending money? Maybe if I did the brinks truck 25,000 card thing but not this way. Only downside is it goes slow. Still--get to meet Anabelle or Bill at the airport or a hotel and personally hand them to him or her.

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12-18-2008, 01:25 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellBruce, Submitted 2 pop 1s, a few pop 2s and a bunch of pop 3s. Also about 15 HOFers. It is here where I am hoping most for bumps to 8.5 or 9.

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12-18-2008, 02:12 PM

Posted By: sagardJim- Did you screen them this time or are you going with another random sample? Good luck either way and please report the results if you get a chance.

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12-18-2008, 02:49 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellNo screening--just submitted them all--easier that way.

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12-18-2008, 02:59 PM

Posted By: John"Who says I am spending money?" So the reviews are free??? I dont follow you Jim....

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12-18-2008, 03:05 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellYou can e-mail me for more details if you wish--I don't think Joe would be comfortable disclosing our deal in public.

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12-18-2008, 03:10 PM

Posted By: JohnNah don't need to bother you Jim I'm sure it's a good deal, best of luck. P.S. Even if you were paying it's not a bad thing you're a good customer of PSA nothing to be ashamed of etc.

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12-18-2008, 03:14 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI'm not ashamed --in fact I am delighted with the deal--win/win for me.

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12-18-2008, 03:30 PM

Posted By: JohnJim I was only pointing out in my comment above that offering reviews and half grade bumps was smart business on PSA's side especially since theres no chance of downgrade... You dropped the I'm not paying hint which if you're not good for you. I was only saying that even if you were no issues you're a good customer of PSA with a nice collection so who cares if you wantred to pay for extra reviews. Cheers Jim have a great holiday, sorry for any confusion I thought I was clear. Wow even when I compliment you and your collection we seem to butt heads or get wires crossed..LOL

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12-18-2008, 03:47 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellThanks John--same to you--Happy Holidays.

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12-18-2008, 04:04 PM

Posted By: Fred CI remember the thread about PSA doing half grades (up). I still don't understand the philosophy but hey, if it means .5 up on the label then more power to you. If it gets rid of that Harris label then you're doing even better...

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12-18-2008, 04:05 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaSo what's the deal with the "Harris label"...Why is it a bad thing? And good luck Jim...I'm interested in hearing what your success rate is.

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12-18-2008, 04:12 PM

Posted By: JohnMany of the Harris cards came from the Copeland collection. Its a commonly discussed topic that many dealers trimmed cards to sell to Jim Copeland. Jim was one of the first big wallets in the hobby and had a passion for stellar cards and would pay top dollar. Unfortunately many dealer and sellers took advantage of this trimming cards to sell to him. IMO the PSA 7 Plank from the Copeland collection is trimmed along with many others, the bad thing is because of this even legitimate high grade cards from that collection now carry a question of doubt due to these past issues or rumors. <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/collection/t206settrial/websize/mullin.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/collection/t206settrial/websize/needham.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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12-18-2008, 04:13 PM

Posted By: JimBDan, Some people believe that a good percentage of the T206s that were pedigreed with "Harris Collection" back about ten years ago were, in fact, trimmed. It was a complete set (minus Wagner and Doyle) that was incredibly high grade - mostly 8's and 9's - that Sportscards Plus auctioned off for "Harris" back then. I met him at the National a few years ago by coincidence at a booth. He was a nice guy. JimB

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12-18-2008, 04:16 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaThanks guys...Does anyone know if PSA has ever had to buy back any Harris cards they encapsulated due to trimming?

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12-18-2008, 04:22 PM

Posted By: JohnThe 2 above are mine; I have doubts on one I'm an honest guy. When I get time I plan on having all my cards checked by SGC for a second look see. However since I'm not really into the whole graded card thing I havent made it a priority and since these both are in my set since and I'm not looking to sell anytime soon back burner. However if I ever sold them and the person wanted a second opinion I would have no problem offering that I wouldnt hide behind a plastic holder and grade like some folks would do. If they turned out trimmed I would ask PSA but who knows if they would do anything... I dont have any money in them per say the Needham was bought during the orginal auction, the Mullin years later on ebay. I can say that the orginal price paid on the Mullin was way higher than what I paid on eBay...for what it's worth. In fact the mullin was fluke I put in a stupid low bid and won...

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12-18-2008, 05:35 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI have only one Harris card in my collection. Thanks Dan--will keep everyone posted--usually I get a pretty quick turnaround from PSA. Jim

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12-20-2008, 09:14 AM

Posted By: Mark McKernon"Who says I am spending money?" "usually I get a pretty quick turnaround from PSA" Free and fast. Nice combo. Good luck with the reviews.

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12-20-2008, 09:29 AM

Posted By: Fred CWonk, I knew there was a reason everyone that liked you for more than just the great pics you used to post! I still forward to seeing a really good Wonk photo display!

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01-16-2009, 09:59 PM

Posted By: JimCrandell3 bumps to 8.5 out of 118--not so good. So much for arguments big submitters get favoritism. On the positive side, my 3 bumps are all pop ones with none higher --Hartsel, Hinchman and Paskert--so its good to at least have the best of these on the planet which should be pretty good for value. I submitted 26 others--all superstar cards from the 60s and got 4 bumps including Seaver RC earning valuable set registry points for my 65 and 67 Topps sets. Gave them another 300 including 1941 Play Ball set --complete in 8 or better except for 3 cards--1957 Topps and 1961 Fleer Bskbl and other miscelaneous cards.

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01-16-2009, 10:23 PM

Posted By: Fred CJim, Do they only charge for the cards that are upgraded or do they charge to review all cards? I assume that they only crack the cards out the holders that will be upgraded. Only 3 out of 118. I'm guessing your cards are high in grade so getting bumped to 8.5 isn't so bad. Just having a large quantity of 8's has to be pleasing.

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01-16-2009, 10:43 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz" ...its good to at least have the best of these on the planet... " How can you be sure there doesn't exist a raw card (or cards) in better condition than yours?

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01-16-2009, 11:18 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellFred, 1)I have a special deal with PSA--Joe has asked not to disclose. 2)Correct--only upgrades 3)I have over 20,000 8s--going to be submitting them to PSA for a long time. Actually, I am trying to accelerate my submissions in case a new president comes in and changes my deal. I was hoping to get more than three though. Jim

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01-16-2009, 11:36 PM

Posted By: KyleHey Jim, You own probably more graded cards than anyone else I know or have heard of. How do you store them, where do you store them, do you showcase any in an office, den, rec room? Just curious. -Kyle

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01-17-2009, 03:48 AM

Posted By: dennis" ...its good to at least have the best of these on the planet... " as far as high grade collecting goes this statement is very true. sure there maybe raw cards out there nicer (probably not).but, collectors who collect in high grade cards like this, do it for the known graded cards and enjoyment of the registry. it is a competition of owning the best available cards.it is not for all collectors but lots of collectors do enjoy trying to have one of the best available sets.

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01-17-2009, 04:01 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- sounds like PSA gave you a fair and unbiased review as only three cards were bumped. That's good to know. Deleted second part- didn't make sense.

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01-17-2009, 06:16 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellKyle, I have a massive room in my basement--on the walls in 6 rows around the perimeter are A few thousand of my best cards and then I have about 25 long tables inside with stacks of cards for the 400 or so graded sets I collect and binbers for another 250 or so I have not sent in to be graded. Collection was profiled in cover story with pictures in a 2006 SMR writeup. Dennis, For me its owning every card in the set PSA 8 or better--while for several sets I have the best on the planet for some of best known(T206, 33 Goudey, 52 Topps etc) I am chasing the leaders. Barry--yup, graders have no idea they are grading my cards....despite the fact I snuck into the grading room when they were grading them and announced that they would all get a special bonus if they gave me at least 255 BUMPS. Jim

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01-17-2009, 06:36 AM

Posted By: JT Burchfield"earning valuable set registry points for..." What makes set registry points valuable?

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01-17-2009, 06:45 AM

Posted By: PeterThank you for sharing this information - very interesting project to follow. Congratulations on your great collection.

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01-17-2009, 06:53 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellThanks Peter JT--why for the competition on who has the best sets of course--in my world its all about the competition--

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01-17-2009, 07:03 AM

Posted By: Marty OgelvieCongrats JimC.. How close are you to the 8 or greater T206 set? Marty

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01-17-2009, 07:04 AM

Posted By: Eric BrehmJim C., Thanks for sharing the results of your review submissions here. I have submitted about 30 PSA 8 cards for review, mostly star cards of the 1950's and 1960's, and received a total of 5 bumps: 3 from PSA 8 to PSA 8.5, and 2 from PSA 8 to PSA 9. (I was surprised by the bumps to 9, as I assumed that very rarely happened.) I didn't 'cherry-pick' the cards in advance, but rather sent in pretty much everything I owned in PSA 8 of certain players that I collect, to see what I would get. (But I'd like to think that most of the PSA 8's I bought were 'high end' examples anyhow.) In any case, it appears that PSA is being very stringent in awarding the grade bumps. I guess that means that if you do get a bump, say from 8 to 8.5, that you've got a card that is definitely very strong for the grade, at least in PSA's opinion.

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01-17-2009, 07:12 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellMarty, Not attempting the T206 graded set. I held it out as an option but then my company went bankrupt, my stock went to zero and I am happily sitting with a few 9s, 3 8.5s, 117 8s, 2 7s 1 6 and a Ty Cobb 5 that I thought would 8 when I bought it raw in 1989. Eric, My ratio is not dissimilar to you. I have done much better on 50s and 60s sets--I think 4 of 48 to 8.5 on 33 Goudey Sport Kings and under 10 percent on my Diamond Stars but for my 63 Fleer set I think I got 25% or more bumps including several to 9. I like idea that it is stringent and that 8.5s--especially for older vintage will trade at a meaningful premium to 8s.

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01-17-2009, 07:28 AM

Posted By: Scott LevyIn my experience....21 T206 cards (not all super high end) submitted to PSA for review - 2 of them received a 1/2 point bump. Jim, My condolences to hear about your company. It is absolutely tough economic times all around. On the bright side, it does sound like you have one heck of a collection! Regards, Scott

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01-17-2009, 07:54 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellThanks Scott--appreciate the kind words--I am fine financially--just can't do the T206 set in 8 or better but I still am very much committed to 100 vintage-semi-vintage sets each card PSA 8 or better. Jim

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01-17-2009, 08:11 AM

Posted By: Trae R.Really incredible, Jim! <a href="http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr1106/crandell.chtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr1106/crandell.chtml</a> <img src="http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr1106/Jim-Crandell-4.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> --- "There ain't much to being a ballplayer, if you're a ballplayer." -Honus Wagner

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01-17-2009, 08:13 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellThanks--thats about 10 percent. Anyone who wants to see it is welcome.

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01-17-2009, 08:31 AM

Posted By: David Atkatz"why for the competition on who has the best sets of course--in my world its all about the competition--" How sad. Most of us collect for the love of baseball and its history.

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01-17-2009, 08:40 AM

Posted By: Marty OgelvieGood stuff JimC. Your wife must be a helluva lady to allow you such an obsession!! I have a cabinet full of cards that my wife cringes at when she sees it open, I can't imagine dediating a whole room to such.. congrats to your collection and your wonderful looking family!

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01-17-2009, 08:43 AM

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind You must be extremely proud of your world class ultra high grade collection. It was good to hear that PSA is quite reserved when it comes to bumps. Like you, we are strong believers that the world is all about competition. If you take pleasure in competing with other collectors, go for it. Interesting that some comment that they collect for pleasure and not competition when said collectors do not even collect cards. Best, Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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01-17-2009, 08:44 AM

Posted By: Jim VBDavid, Just a couple of quick questions, if I may... 1. Why is it "sad" that someone else chooses to collect for different reasons than you do? 2. Who made you the arbiter of such things?

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01-17-2009, 09:03 AM

Posted By: marty q jim-when another collector tells another "how" he should collect and why, they should be told to go off, i have a friend that collects only shiny new stuff, he has the money to collect anything he wants, he chose this, "who" the hell am i to tell him what and why he should collect???? he loves how he collects, and is proud of it, i applaud him for that, and he dont bother me at all about how i collect, matter of fact he always compliments me and wishes me luck. thats the collector friend i want !!!

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01-17-2009, 09:12 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzJimVB... I find it sad that someone seems to get no (collecting) joy except by being told by others how wonderful his collection is. (Even if he has to pay those others (i.e. PSA) to tell him so. I am not being an "arbiter," but rather simply stating a fact; i.e., I find it sad. Although Ted Z and I have argued politics--and once even an arcane turn-of-the-20th-century baseball point, his collecting, on the other hand, brings me joy. It's wonderful to me to see someone so in love with what he collects--and not just the physical objects (and certainly not their monetary "value"), but the knowledge of those cards history. And, even more to the point, how he enjoys sharing that hard-won knowledge with anyone interested. Or Dan Bretta, who (again) so obviously loves the subject of his collecting--not just the items themselves--and, again, is always happy to share a new-found aquisition or a bit of Nebraska baseball "trivia." And then, of course, you've got Jim...

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01-17-2009, 09:15 AM

Posted By: Bobby BinderSports is a competition and the people playing it are doing it for the love of competition. I see no problem with people collecting cards and treating it like a competition to have the best set in the world. Ty Cobb played to be the best not for the love of it.

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01-17-2009, 09:17 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzThat's fine, Bobby. I find it sad.

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01-17-2009, 09:18 AM

Posted By: JoeJim, can you post a scan of the Cobb that is graded 5. I would like to compare my 2 Cobbs that are graded by SGC as 70, ex+. Thanks joe Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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01-17-2009, 09:31 AM

Posted By: Jim VBDavid, You didn't say "I find it sad." You said "How sad." There is a difference. You do seem to save your biggest digs for Bruce D., Jim C., and Jeff L., three board members who have been, relatively speaking, financially successful in life. Why is that? At some point in your life you made decisions that led you to a career that is rarely financially rewarding at a high level. We could spend days debating the relative rewards that society offers to educators v. athletes, entertainers, attorneys, or successful business people. We would settle nothing. You have chosen your path and have been very successful at it. So have they. It's unseemly to now go back and attack those who have chosen a different path.

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01-17-2009, 09:36 AM

Posted By: barrysloateThe Saturday afternoon fights. I have a real problem telling other people that the way they collect is wrong (or sad). Jim C. may collect differently than I do, but I believe he truly enjoys the way he does it.

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01-17-2009, 09:37 AM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldShould it not be "we strongly believe" instead of "we are strong believers"? Even when using the royal we / tapeworm we, only the we is used, not plural nouns.

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01-17-2009, 09:42 AM

Posted By: Jim VBBarry, I'm really not trying to fight. David has an incredible collection of stuff, (especially Yankees), but I hate the constant digs. Jim C and I could not be more different in the ways we collect, but I respect his right to do it the way he wants. I've never met any of the Bruces, but same goes for them. Lichtman... OK, I can't defend how he collects. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> I just like it that there's a board where everyone can collect a different way and talk about it. Otherwise, we'd all be chasing the same 1977 Templeton rookie and the price would get out of hand.

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01-17-2009, 09:46 AM

Posted By: dennisi think jim c likes baseball too!<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-17-2009, 09:51 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI know Jim VB- you are a good soul and I didn't mean to imply you started the fight. David does have a very significant Yankee collection, and I know he is an expert on early Yankee history, but...he does seem to show up only when Jim C. or Bruce posts, and that seems opportunistic to me. And a fight is always right around the corner.

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01-17-2009, 09:54 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzI'm sorry for my choice of phrasing, Jim. Believe me, I wouldn't change places with any of the aforementioned three. (Or anyone else, for that matter.) Unfortunately, I am not an adherent to the post-modern "it's all good" point-of-view. I, personally, respect those who collect for the love of a subject (any subject, Bruce) and who enjoy learning about, and, in particular, researching that subject, rather than simply acquiring objects for--what seems to me--bragging rights only. And, in that regard, although we strongly disagree politically, I respect Jeff L. To me, being a "collector" (as opposed to an "acquirer") takes quite a bit more than money. (And do you really believe my feelings towards Bruce have anything at all to do with his (self-proclaimed only) "financial success"? Please, give me a bit more credit than that.) Finally, why do you assume that I'm not well-off? (And therefore jealous of those who are.) There may exist other circumstances which have allowed me to pursue the less-than-financially rewarding career I loved, and still be able to indulge in other, more expensive pursuits. Perhaps you assume as you do because I refuse to brag about how valuable my collections are, or how many one-of-a-kind items they contain. (Just this once, I will blow my own horn. If you'd like to see some of the items in my NY Yankee collection, take a look at "The New York Yankees An Illustrated History," St. Martin's Press, NY 2002.)

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01-17-2009, 09:58 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzBarry... I'm far from perfect. My digs at the Bruces and Crandell appear because their constant bragging and pomposity piss me off. A better person than I would remain silent, but I am who I am.

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01-17-2009, 10:08 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI understand David, but that seems to be the only time you post. I could be wrong.

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01-17-2009, 10:12 AM

Posted By: David AtkatzIf you look to the memorabilia side, Barry, you'd see that, in this case at least, you are wrong.

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01-17-2009, 10:31 AM

Posted By: barrysloateFair enough. I figured you may have posted elsewhere, but I don't read every thread.

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01-17-2009, 10:36 AM

Posted By: Jim VB"Finally, why do you assume that I'm not well-off? (And therefore jealous of those who are.)" Honestly, I was trying to assume nothing either way about the state of your wealth. (Nor was I making wealth assumptions about the others.) Wealth and income are two different things. I was assuming, perhaps falsely, that those in your chosen profession earn less in income than some other professions.

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01-17-2009, 10:42 AM

Posted By: David Atkatz"I was assuming, perhaps falsely, that those in your chosen profession earn less in income than some other professions." That's not an assumption. That's a fact <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-17-2009, 11:03 AM

Posted By: joe brennanJim, I'm sure you were a little disapointed in your reviews, but congrads on the 3 bumps you got. Hopefully your next sub will turn out better. As far as Jim enjoying the hobby, he enjoys it in his own way as we all do. What is sad that everytime Jim posts it has to be turned into some kind of negativity. It would be nice to see at least one thread stay completely positive. His collecting goals may differ, but hey isn't that what makes this a great hobby? If we all collected exactly the same, no one would win a card on e-bay without a dog fight. I for one am glad Jim collects the way he does as I don't have to bump heads with him for my PSA 5's. Jim, Good luck on your quest of 100 sets in PSA 8. Joe In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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01-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Posted By: Scott FandangoDavid, you already made it clear your not in favor of Jim C (the 2nd post in the thread i believe)... do you have to continue to hijack his thread? the man is simply proud of his collection (and he should be) he was sharing pre-war submission results....so why the hostility?

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01-17-2009, 01:10 PM

Posted By: SteveFrom what I heard PSA has really tightened up as of late and that could be a reason why Jim only got 3 bumps. I'll cringe when the 100 sweet 1953 Topps I submitted last month all come back 6 and lower. Jim good luck on the next batch and thanks for keeping the board informed. Steve

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01-17-2009, 01:33 PM

Posted By: dan mckeeThat is a neat display Jim. I like the wall shelves holding the cards. How cool to walk around the room and see the many cards well displayed. I can appreciate that. I am curious how they are sorted on the shelves? Are they by year or player or by grade? Anyway, as others have said here, you have every right to collect anything anyway and you seem to have your heart in it so I think that is great. Jon Wonka - u know I love u brother but that Needham is blatantly trimmed. The bottom edge should have an angle cut matching the top edge and I think you already know that.

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01-17-2009, 01:38 PM

Posted By: David Atkatz"the man is simply proud of his collection (and he should be)" Interesting, Scott. I'm proud of my family. I'm proud of some of the physics papers I've written. I'm proud that, as a child, I wanted to fly, and as an adult I became a pilot. But I'm not proud of any of the things I've simply bought.

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01-17-2009, 02:18 PM

Posted By: 1880nonsportsand Jim to some degree I guess - I don't think we know each other (I have CRS) but after reading the exchanges between the two of you for so long now - I figured I'd respectfully suggest that you move on from the personal jabbing. Whatever may have been said before by either of you should really be past history at this point. I'm sure you're both reasonable and educated people. Jim starts a helpful thread that people are interested in for whatever reasons. The thread then degenerates into a class and motivation thing. Most people love most members of their family. Many collectors are passionate about the niche or form that surrounds their hobbying. No-one is in favor of child abuse (well when I was teaching maybe....__) and regardless of party or religion I believe everyone wants to live a good life while making moral and ethical decisions in that effort. Sorry to a degree about making this post - shudda probably hit delete - I could just move on and ignore it all as I have been - political/social issues are important - but don't really think a baseball card board is where that should take place... Maybe you email each other? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-17-2009, 02:19 PM

Posted By: Jim VB"...that Needham is blatantly trimmed." You must be mistaken Dan. It's clearly in a holder! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-17-2009, 02:52 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Dorskind to Crandell to Lichtman ... it does have a certain ring to it.

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01-17-2009, 02:54 PM

Posted By: Anthony S."The saddest of possible words..."

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01-17-2009, 02:57 PM

Posted By: PeterAll you can say about submitting 118 T206 PSA 8 is Wow! Wow!

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01-17-2009, 03:03 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Wow! along with very impressive

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01-17-2009, 03:18 PM

Posted By: marty q oh geez !!! how tall is your soap box david? nobody cares about your physics paper, nobody cares about you being a pilot, barry is right on, you only post when a certain few post, yeah i kknow memorbilia side, uh hum ! this is the pre-war baseball side. "you" call people out on a public chatboard and when you get called out you start to try and justify why you do it !! give me a break cyber bully!! if your not proud of any thing you have collected over the years than why do you collect???? lol, that was to funny pal !!! just for the fun of it i guess. when people start to get "sick" of what you do maybe it's time to shut up!! i have been on here for 2 years, and i chime in on a post maybe once a week, you seem to chime in when a certain few post, and add all negative stuff as well as high jack that posters thread every time!!!! if your pissed at life david take it out on yourself, because if somebody else's collection or the way they collect bother's you are in a bad way.

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01-17-2009, 03:18 PM

Posted By: Fred YBeing basically a '50's collector who managed to save several baseball, football and non-sport cards & sets from my youth, I must say I am totally AMAZED by the breadth & scope of your collection! The REASON you collect is of NO CONCERN to me, but the QUALITY & QUANTITY of what you have IS SIMPLY AWESOME TO BEHOLD!

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01-17-2009, 03:43 PM

Posted By: Misunderestimated (Brian H)Jim - Did you select the cards you resubmitted based on the ones you suspected might get a bump or did you simply in all of the PSA 8s ? (I may have missed this detail from my cursory reading above). When I renewed I sent in 20 T205s that I picked out as being likely candidates for a bump (mostly PSA 6s) and I got one bumped up a 1/2 grade and one full grade. I thought the process was fair and quite a smart business play for PSA. Nonetheless, I did (and still do) have an uneasy feeling about the whole thing which I can't quite articulate. Two other comments: 1) I find it hard to believe that they actually removed each of the cards from the holders to regrade them and then reholdered the cards whether or not they got bumped. 2) I think that the cards that are re-evaluated should receive new style labels (the number below the grade) whether or not the card is bumped for the integrity of the system. I understand why it would be bad for business to adopt this procedure and, therefore, have trouble blaming PSA for simply reusing the old labels.

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01-17-2009, 03:47 PM

Posted By: Jasonoh wow yet another thread of old men fighting about baseball cards on the internet. Yay!

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01-17-2009, 03:53 PM

Posted By: Michael SteeleTrae R: Thank you for posting the link to the SMR article on Mr. Crandell. I had not seen it before. Jim: I use outstanding and awesome to describe that room. No matter what anyone thinks, your passion is quite remarkable! Edit for spelling

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01-17-2009, 03:53 PM

Posted By: MikeI don't post much, but I absolutely love reading about Jim's massive collection and it is one of the reasons I visit the board several times a day. I just find it amazing that one person could own 23k PSA 8's or greater. I personally don't own any. It was very enjoyable reading the article on Jim and seeing his display. It is nice to put a face to the name. I'm actually amazed how young Jim is when you look at his collection. I would be interested to hear any "accidents" Jim has had in that room when trying to get at cards on the top rows. The room looks like a house of cards just ready to tumble down at any given moment.

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01-17-2009, 04:15 PM

Posted By: JasonJim I was looking at your collection in that article and I see some fine hockey cards. You collect pre war hockey? Love to see some nice examples of those. Regards, Jason

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01-17-2009, 04:27 PM

Posted By: Jim VBMr. Moses, Your subtle reference to your debilitating disease (CRS) was not lost on me. I, too, suffer from the same affliction. I think there may be a cure for it, but maybe not. I'm not really sure. I know there is medication you can take, but you you must take it just once, every day, and you know how that goes. What were we talking about?

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01-17-2009, 04:36 PM

Posted By: joe brennanJim, I just read the article. Truly awesome. Congrads. In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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01-17-2009, 04:49 PM

Posted By: Joe D.Jim - thats a cool looking room. looks like a person could get lost in there.

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01-17-2009, 05:13 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliDavid: I'm hoping you can help me. I feel like I've been making a huge mistake. I prefer to collect graded cards. I collect high-grade 1938 Goudey baseball cards. I am proud of my collection. Can you please explain to me - without belittling me or being judgemental - exactly how I'm collecting wrong? Clearly I did not buy the right manual when I got started in this hobby, and thus I feel kind of silly for having to ask such a rudimentary question. But with all the knowledge you have, I suspect that you could probably educate me as to the right way to collect. From the tone of your posts, it seems that you clearly know. Your help would be greatly appreciated, as I have been considering starting a few new projects, but I don't want to buy another card until I have a thorough understanding of the right way to do it. Thanks so much, -Al

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01-17-2009, 05:24 PM

Posted By: martindl Jim, Thanks for the update. You keep those odds up and you'll start restoring faith in PSA <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> David, Couple of things. I'm not going to comment on your judgmental nature and closed mindedness because, well, it would be judgmental and closed minded of me. You're entitled to you opinion just like anyone. See, I am one of those post-modern "it's all good" types - I am a tad curious though - did a mantra like "live and let live" not exist in modern and pre-modern times? I will say that you have Jim pegged incorrectly - I think you'll find he's very knowledgeable and has a very keen understanding of the history of not only baseball but the other sports also.

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01-17-2009, 05:28 PM

Posted By: J LevineJim, As you know, I collect distinctly low grade but am always impressed with your collection. Whether you collect because the eye-appeal of a beautifully preserved card, it's monetary value, or for purely sentimental reasons I think it is a wonderful hobby. David, You may post often on the memorabilia side and I enjoy your posts there but here, it seems all you do it pick fights. Jim has money. Jim spends money on high end baseball cards. Jim enjoys his collection. Jim is not hurting anyone. You have no standing to criticize him for his choices in a hobby as long as it does not directly hurt you. David, if you find something sad, I suggest you keep it to yourself. Every time you think you are going to start a sentence with "I feel..." just stop and erase. When Jim starts spending his money on hookers, drugs, child pornography, or anything else that is harmful to others then feel free to shout out...but his little side of the hobby is fine. I just do not understand your fascination with this. Joshua

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01-17-2009, 05:33 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJim....congrats on just a fabulous collection. Anyone who dreams of flying as a child and then gets their license to fly, is it me or like who really cares? I had a meeting today with a gentleman who is a foremost authority on Faberge items and his collection just blew me away,it was awe inspiring. I appreciate those who have stellar collections and you my friend def have one.

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01-17-2009, 05:36 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJ Levine....are you related to Billy Graham? Why is it every time i see a post of yours you are preaching to people?

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01-17-2009, 05:55 PM

Posted By: AlanI am very impressed by Jim's collection and I have a tremendous respect for him. He is one of the guys on this message board that I really look forward to meet at a National.

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01-17-2009, 06:28 PM

Posted By: 1880nonsportsW O W.......... Thank you for sharing that as it's likely a once in a lifetime experience for most. That you can keep track of anything is amazing enough. That you seek upgrading what most only dream of owning - AND DO SO (unlike some others) -incredible. That it's top drawer quality AND in mind-boggling quantities - nearly too much to fathom. That you have passion about what you are accumulating - priceless........

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01-18-2009, 06:15 AM

Posted By: Marc S.Congratulations on the bumps, albeit the relatively conservative number of them. Quick question -- before you submitted, did you happen to review to see if you had any tougher advertising backs on your high-grade T-206s? Hope life is treating you well -- haven't talked to you in awhile. Perhaps we can have some drinks or catch a game sometime this Spring / Summer. Cheers, Marc

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01-18-2009, 07:38 AM

Posted By: boxingcardmanI disagree with Jim on most every subject we could debate but he definitely has a passion and dedication to collecting and I respect that. Nothing wrong with being proud of a collection; if you break it down, what people are really proud of is the effort involved. Taken as a spectrum of considerations, I happen to find completeness far more ineresting than condition, but that's my preference and I would not impose it on others. Less than a 3% bump rate sounds about normal post-war from what most people are posting; my experience has been similar. I've sent in 13 cards for review and gotten two half-point bumps and they were on the two most expensive cards in the lot (1950 Drake's Spahn 6.5 and 1961 Morrell Koufax 7.5). Since I've said for years that the PSA product sucks, certainly no favoritism (or hostility) there...And yes, even though I dislike them as compared to SGC, I sent stuff to PSA. I do it for the money to be made in reselling to people who collect PSA cards; hey, at least I admit what I am <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> . Edited to add: my wife would divorce me if I took over a room of the house for my collection; so more power to you, Jim, and anyone else who has a play room. I have to use my office... Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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01-19-2009, 07:52 AM

Posted By: J9im CrandellThank you to everyone but David for the kind words. For those of you who do not know me well I love the hobby and derive enormous joy from my collection. I also consider myself very knowledgeable about baseball and will put my knowledge of the sport and its history against my one antagonist any day of the week. Remember everyone this is the human being and I use that term loosely who cheered when my firm went bankrupt and I suffered major financial losses and essentially blamed me as one of those who caused my firm to go bankrupt(which is ludicrous). The two comments I enjoyed the most were how young I looked given my collection and my wonderful looking family. For those of you who know me I have to confess the pictures were taken more than a couple of years ago--sorry but I think I look better with my hair. Also for those that know me well know how much my family means to me. I have a lovely wife and two wonderful children and would not trade them for all the baseball cards in the world. I was taught how to scan once but I forget how Joe--I will try to figure it out. Brian--I submit all the 8s I have--don't bother to pre-screen the 8s--this was the 4th batch sent in--I gave them another 300 as I said including 3 sets that are essentially all in 8. As far as accidents none. The cards are on wooden attachments to the wall that allow them to lean back. I keep my favorite/most valuable 3,000 cards on the wall. Thanks for your interest--anyone is welcome to see the collection...and lastly there is no right way to collect as Marty Q notes--collect what makes you happy. I like high grade cards--all sports and non-sports. I just bought a complete 1945 Mutoscope Pin-Up Set in psa 8 and better. Cheers, Jim

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01-19-2009, 10:23 AM

Posted By: Scott TI have a very low end T206 collection and try not to be jealous of others and what they have. Jim and his collection makes it very, very hard to do that! Congrats and good luck! Scott

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01-19-2009, 10:43 AM

Posted By: johnJim, That is one hell of a collection. I am green with envy. Congratulations. John

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01-19-2009, 11:49 AM

Posted By: Dean HI have never met Jim but feel like I know him from all the past threads. Being mostly an addicted lurker the past few years I will say one thing about him. I must commend you for being open to sharing your collection with other collectors. I've seen the past posts where Jim opened his home to others who wanted to see his collection and talk shop. I think that is very generous and applaud you for that. Great collection and good luck on your quest.

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01-19-2009, 12:04 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI have had a number of parties where I open my card room--almost always these are completely open and I usually provide food and drinks. I also try to invite "famous" people in the hobby. One party Dave Forman and his entire grading staff came from SGC. At another was the president and founder of LTS!!!!! Have not had one since last summer so will try to schedule another shortly. Jim

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01-19-2009, 12:07 PM

Posted By: JohnJim and I have been known to butt heads, but one thing we will never disagree on is his amazing collection! Kudos Jim great stuff, and for a guy with a quite a bit of upside in 2 companies Jim I feel for you and your family on the whole LB mess. Cheers, John

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01-19-2009, 12:10 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellThanks John--nice of you to say and appreciated.

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01-19-2009, 12:55 PM

Posted By: JasonJim if I lived in your home town and you trusted me I'd happily scan all your cards for free. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> (I love registries that include scans of the cards) Also you probably missed my question. I see you have some hockey in your collection. Do you collect any of the C55, C56, C57's? I'm guessing maybe not since they're so hard if not impossible to complete in 8's or higher.

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01-19-2009, 01:22 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellJason, I missed your question--sorry. My hockey collection is 1953-91--all sets graded to m65 and raw 66-91 except for stars. At some point I will probably grade through the 60s. If your travels bring you to New Jersey you can stay over my house and scan to your hearts content. Jim

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01-19-2009, 01:52 PM

Posted By: john wJim, I hope that moving is not in your plans if the collection outgrows your space. Someone should do weight approximation on all those cards! An additional would probably more ciost effective - lol. Let's see, the average weight of a PSA encapsulated card is 2.5 ounces * quantity = a lot of sore backs. John

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01-19-2009, 03:12 PM

Posted By: steveDoes anybody feel it is easier to get a PSA 5 bumped to a 5.5, or a PSA 8 bumped to a 8.5? Basically, is PSA easier on bumping mid level cards, or is the bump rate % pretty much the same across the board on all grades? I have several nice T206's in PSA 5 - thinking of sending back to PSA to get a couple bumps, maybe. steve

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01-19-2009, 06:17 PM

Posted By: Dan ParadisJim, awesome collection (and nice family too)! I live in CT and would love to see your collection someday. If you ever have an Open House, count me in. Dan

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01-19-2009, 07:10 PM

Posted By: LeonThat was a very nice article and you have a great looking family too. Good luck on your next sets.....best regards

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01-19-2009, 07:55 PM

Posted By: Joe_G.Wow, I rarely read the T206 / twentith century card threads but decided to see what was garnering so many posts. I read the hyperlinked PSA article about half way up and was quite impressed. Glad you don't collect 19th century, in any grade. Congratulations on a fantastic collection and a willingness to share with the hobby. Thank You & Best Regards, Joe Gonsowski

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01-19-2009, 08:29 PM

Posted By: Pennsylvania TedSome advice, for whatever it is worth....dump the 155 - T206's that you currently have that are PSA 8 & 9; and, with that money acquire T206's that are "6's and 7's" (consistent with your two Cobb's). And, before you realize it, you will have a 520-card T206 set that you will be proud of. Trying to collect "The Monster" in super high grade condition is an impossible goal. Because no matter how many $$$$$$ you have to put in to it, you will never find certain cards that are "8's" (or better). Regards, TED Z

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01-20-2009, 10:25 AM

Posted By: macboubeYes Awesome, is the only word to describe Mr. Crandell. You have achieved what all passionate card enthusiasts dream about. I would like to add my experience on the process and results of reviews and bumps at PSA. Out of the 19 gem mint 10's we have on our '55 AA's, almost 50% of them were from bumps. That is pretty remarkable in itself.

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01-21-2009, 06:00 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellThank you everyone--appreciate all the kind words. I will let everyone know when the next open house is. Ted, I appreciate the advice and you are the man when it comes to T206s. Everyone has to enjoy what he collects. I just do not like cards in less than PSA 8 condition period. I would rather have 155 8s and 9s than a set of 6s and 7s. Just my preference and not making any judgements on thiose that collect low-to-mid grade cards. Jim