Old Judge Trivia Question Thread

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Of the known dates of deaths of the players pictured on the Old Judge cards (estimate 70% of all players births and deaths are known) only two players lived in to the 1960's. Who was the last player to say &quot;I was pictured in the Old Judge set&quot;? and who was second to last?<br><br>Once the question is answered correctly feel free to post another question about the N172 set.

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Hoy

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hoy is correct Fred. Do you know who the other player was that lived in to the 1960s?

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Dan--That's a trick question. Hoy couldn't say anything.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>HA! I hadn't even thought of that.

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>George Winkleman -

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Fred WINS! Now he has to contribute an OJ Trivia question.

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Here's an easy one. Which player depicted on an OJ died at the youngest age? <br><br>

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Art Whitney's dog!<br><br>No...he wasn't a player.

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Im just guessing but I think its John Weyhing,he was only 20

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Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I think John is right with John Weyhing. On a related note, Alex McKinnon may have already been dead by the time his 1887 Old Judge card was distributed. He passed away in July of 1887.<br><br>-Rhett

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>I think McKinnon was about 30 when he died. <br><br>Honorable mention to Ferguson at 27.<br><br>Your turn John!

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Weyhing was only 20,Im sure of it. 1869-1890. Don't know for sure if hes the right answer but I am at work right now so its hard to check

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Im guessing by Fred's change that my answer was right so I'll say<br><br> who was the youngest player from the set to appear in the majors?

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Bill Bishop?

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Correct Dan,your turn again

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>This player only played three major league seasons (1889-1891)...all three seasons in Boston and all three in a different league. Who is he?

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Bill Daley <br><br> can someone else ask the enxt question,im supposed to be working at a busy restaurant right now <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>You are good!

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Ok,I got a sec.<br><br> Which player from the set played the most recently(or furthest date from the set,whichever way you want to say it)

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hmmm...without looking I'll say Arlie Latham?

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>John--In the majors or just in professional baseball? Jim O'Rourke and Lave Cross both played until at least 1912.

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Just in the majors,believe it or not Jay it was after 1912

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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Clark Griffith

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> Griffith is right!<br><br> How about which player was related to a US President? A hint,he was the star in the book written by one of the board members called A Card's Life. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>great thread!<br> How did Mckinnon die? Whats Winklelman's autograph worth? I like Arlie Latham cause he bridges the gap between old Judge and tobacco (along with Clark Griffith)<br>

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>Connie Mack <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Darn it... I go away after my last edit and look at all the good questions that came up! Yes John, you were right. For some reason or other I thought Weyhing was much older until I double checked the answer. Now back to you Alec.... The double jeopardy categories are:<br><br>Players depicted in OJs born in another country<br><br>Players depicted in OJs that died in the 1800s<br><br>Players depicted in OJs that....<br><br>

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Posted By: <b>john/z28jd</b><p> McKinnon died of typhoid fever mid-season 1887,shortly after his card was released. Pictures for the 1887 Pirates team set were probably taken early-May because Jim McCormick isnt pictured with the team(Chicago uni),he started playing for them May 13th that year, and neither is Ed Beecher who joined the team in late June but Bill Bishop is on the team and he was gone by Mid-June<br><br><br><br> The old judge set and t206 set both include Latham,Duffy,Griffith,Beckley and William Hart.<br><br><br><br> Connie Mack is not the right answer,sorry

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>sorry, Mack wasnt the answer to your question, I forgot to put him in my list of players that bridges that gap. I didnt know about Hart being in both sets!

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Elmer Cleveland!<br><br><a href="http://www.vintagecardprices.com/card-profile/index.php?card_id=64511" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.vintagecardprices.com/card-profile/index.php?card_id=64511</a><br><br>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Why does Charlie Bennett have only one pose, and it's with Boston (not a trivia question, but a factual one)?

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Posted By: <b>J Levine</b><p>Barry,<br><br>Sort of odd that such a massive star in Detroit as Bennett did not have a Detroit card.<br><br>One of my HOF moments in collecting came around because of Charlie Bennet.<br><br>As people know...I collect Phillies. As a result, I also collect the Ruby Legs who, in a very roundabout and convuluted way, became the Phillies. Bennett played for the Ruby Legs.<br><br>About 10 years ago, I stopped into the HOF for one of the inductions(Winfield, et. al.) and was wandering around the museum. One of the display pieces showed a very nice pocket watch and credited it with belonging to Kid Nichols. If I recall the watch face was inscribed with Bennett's name. I asked a docent if the watch was Nichols or Bennetts...off to the archives I went. With a bit of talking and begging, I found my way into the basement we finally found the donation record. The watch was indeed Nichols' watch...Apparently Charlie Bennett gave Kid the watch. Nichols kept it and used it as his own. The donor thought that the watch was given to Bennett for some accomplishment in Detroit or Boston after his playing career. BTW, Bennett and Nichols played together for Boston.<br><br>Joshua

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Good story Joshua...but the mystery of why there is no Bennett card issued before 1889 remains.

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Posted By: <b>Sean</b><p>Does it have something to do with him being traded from Detroit? Im assuming it has nothing to do with him losing his legs?

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Posted By: <b>Joe_G.</b><p>Bennett should have been issued an 1887 card just as teammates Lady Baldwin, Pete Conway, Pretzel Getzien, and Deacon White should have. All, except Bennett, would be picked up in 1888. Other players who joined the set later than expected include Anson, Ewing, and many other less notable players.<br><br>Here are two versions of the same Bennett pose. I'm happy to call the one on the left mine while all other N172 and N173 examples I've seen match the copy on the right. The difference being the presence of &quot;Detroit&quot; on the uniform. A little more history on Bennett's pose can be learned on page 150 of the book.<br><br><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1232159285.JPG" alt="[linked image]"><br><br>Best Regards,<br>Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Joe- I am most impressed that you spell &quot;Getzien&quot; correctly. I don't believe a single baseball card got it right. As you noted in the book, everyone misspelled it.

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>OJ players born outside of the US: Pop Smith was born in Digby Nova Scotia in 1858. (Canada wasn't officially a country until 1867)

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Max--Our attorneys inform us that Smith's bio says he &quot;came out of Canada&quot; not that he was born in Canada. Thus, assuming he left Nova Scotia at an age after nine we are correct. And while we are at it, none of us inhaled. LOL

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>I think there were a few OJ players born outside the US... there was that &quot;eskimo&quot; guy...

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Posted By: <b>Max Weder</b><p>Jay<br><br>Digby Nova Scotia is home to some of the highest tides in the world. My spouse is also from about 10 miles from there. While I've been to Digby many times, I've yet to see a Pop Smith memorial. <br><br>Book order is on the way, but if I recall correctly without the benefit of the book (and sans google), Tip O'Neill and O'Rourke were also Canadian.<br><br>Max

[cozmokramer]

Through some odd search I came up with this thread.

Incredible trivia information to know now that i've been collecting OJs.

I'd love to see this revived to learn more about the OJ set...

Anyone?

[Rich Klein]

Which member of the Old Judge set was a pennant winning manager in more than one league and died before 1900?

Regards
Rich

[kkkkandp]

Harry Wright (the obvious one, I think) in the NA and the NL; Bill McGunnigle in the AA and the NL.

[Joe_G.]

I'll throw one out there that can be easily looked up, but interesting none-the-less.

How many left handed single-season 40 game winners are there? Which ones can be found in the Old Judge set.

[kkkkandp]

Single-season strikeout leader, Matt Kilroy; Ed Morris and Detroiter Charles Busted "Lady" Baldwin.

Here's one...what member of the Old Judge set is the all-time leader in hit batsmen?

[Troy Kirk]

Phil Knell with 54 hit batsmen in 1891.

Here's another Old Judge question. Who is the only Hall of Famer wearing a glove in an Old Judge pose?

[kkkkandp]

Knell is a single-season leader, not the all-time leader.

And Delahanty is wearing a glove.

[cozmokramer]

I thought Walter Johnson hit the most batters in his career

[kkkkandp]

...according to Baseball Almanac.

[Joe_G.]

Here's one...what member of the Old Judge set is the all-time leader in hit batsmen?

~12 1/2 years unanswered, Kevin and I gave everyone a fair chance . . .

Gus Weyhing, 277 hit batsmen over 14 years (4337 innings pitched)

Walter Johnson hit 205 over 21 years (5914.1 innings pitched) (4th all time)

I had to look this up.


Who is the oldest player depicted on Old Judge card (oldest during his N172 card issuance)?

[BobbyStrawberry]

~12 1/2 years unanswered, Kevin and I gave everyone a fair chance . . .

Gus Weyhing, 277 hit batsmen over 14 years (4337 innings pitched)

Walter Johnson hit 205 over 21 years (5914.1 innings pitched) (4th all time)

I had to look this up.


Who is the oldest player depicted on Old Judge card (oldest during his N172 card issuance)?

Harry Wright would be my guess.

[molenick]

I vote for Harry Wright as the oldest person. If it was someone who was still a player at the time, I vote for either Jim O'Rourke or Deacon White, just because I know both would have been playing for awhile at that point.

[oldjudge]

My guess would be Deacon White, especially since he is Joe’s favorite player

[Joe_G.]

All good guesses, Deacon White was oldest player (39 years old at time of April photo shoot, turning 40 in late 1888) and was the answer I was looking for.

Harry Wright would be oldest person (manager) during card issue with cards issued in 1887, 1888, 1889, & 1890 age 52-55yrs although the photo portraits used to make those cards seem to date to 1887 & 1888 (52 & 53 yrs old).

[Joe_G.]

my guess would be deacon white, especially since he is joe’s favorite player


:) :) :)

[Joe_G.]

OK, something more difficult.

29 subjects from the Old Judge set have been inducted into the BB HOF. Most of the players died before the HOF began inducting players (1936), still more would perish before being honored, however, four held on long enough to see their enshrinement, name them.

[BobbyStrawberry]

OK, something more difficult.

29 subjects from the Old Judge set have been inducted into the BB HOF. Most of the players died before the HOF began inducting players (1936), still more would perish before being honored, however, four held on long enough to see their enshrinement, name them.

That's a hard one, Joe. I went 1 for 4. (I won't embarrass myself by listing all of them) 🤓

[Misunderestimated]

I think its Connie Mack, Hugh Duffy
Clark Griffith and Kid Nichols. Haven't double checked.

[Joe_G.]

Great job Brian, you nailed it.

Connie Mack, class of 1937, died in 1956 at 93
Hugh Duffy, class of 1945, died in 1954 at 87
Clark Griffith, class of 1946, died in 1955 at 85
Kid Nichols, class of 1949, died in 1953 at 83

[z28jd]

My answer way back when about the youngest player was correct as far as we knew at the time, but research added five years onto the age of Bill Bishop since then. He's not the youngest player in the set, as a large number of players in the set were younger than 22 when they appeared. Nat Hudson appears to be the correct answer now, though some birth dates for minor league players are unknown

[Fred]

I just started reading the thread. Holy crap, I had Nichols, Mack, Griffith and Duffy. My goodness, that thread had been buried for a long time.

[Fred]

Of the 29 HOFers depicted in the OJ set, how many (and who) never lived to see the 20th century?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Of the 29 HOFers depicted in the OJ set, how many (and who) never lived to see the 20th century?

King Kelly is one.

[Misunderestimated]

High and hard living King Kelly is right, also "Old Hoss" Radbourn and Harry Wright for certain.
Ed Delahanty barely made it before he mysteriously died over Niagara Falls in 1903...He was still near the top of his game.

No one else comes to mind.

[Fred]

Those would be the answers. Big Ed, missed the cut-off by just a few years.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I'll try one: Which five players depicted on Old Judge cards have been most recently inducted into the HOF?

(And Jay and Joe, if you're reading this, your awesome book is one of the reasons for my fascination with this era of the game, so thanks for that!)

[oldjudge]

Thanks Bobby! I remember four semi recent additions in White, O’Day, McPhee and Hanlon. The fifth escapes me but I’d guess Rusie.

[BobbyStrawberry]

You got it, Jay. Rusie was inducted in 1977, one year after Roger Connor.

[oldjudge]

Great! My turn—What player in the Old Judge set had the longest (start to end) major league baseball playing career? For these purposes please only consider the National Association, the National League and the American League as major leagues.

[John1941]

Great! My turn—What player in the Old Judge set had the longest (start to end) major league baseball playing career? For these purposes please only consider the National Association, the National League and the American League as major leagues.

Deacon McGuire?

[Misunderestimated]

Orator Jim O'Rourke ? I'm guessing the way the questions is asked implies that it has to be someone who started in the Nat Ass'n. I think the Orator had a cameo in the AL or the AL in 20th Century too. He had drifted down to the "minor leagues" but kept playing.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Cap Anson is my guess, but I'm probably wrong.

[insidethewrapper]

Sam Thompson

[oldjudge]

Brian is right. Jim O'Rourke started in 1872 and played one game for the Giants in, I believe, 1904. He actually caught the full game and went 1/4. Quite a feat.

[BobbyStrawberry]

OK, another one...

Which three players with Old Judge cards have the highest career on-base percentage?

ETA: Consider only "major league" stats as currently defined by MLB. Minimum 5000 PAs.

[Fred]

I only got one of the three (he was the top one though) - I had to cheat to find that the other two weren't in the top three, however, I did have #4.

[darwinbulldog]

Great job Brian, you nailed it.

Connie Mack, class of 1937, died in 1956 at 93
Hugh Duffy, class of 1945, died in 1954 at 87
Clark Griffith, class of 1946, died in 1955 at 85
Kid Nichols, class of 1949, died in 1953 at 83

For anyone who complains about the current Hall voters, there are few mistakes more egregious than taking 14 years to induct Kid Nichols. I don't expect many people will agree with me, but Nichols was the single best player of the 19th century.

[molenick]

And it's not like they weren't putting in 19th century players...in 1946 the veteran's committee selected Tommy McCarthy who is right up there among the worst inductees. If you subscribe to WAR he is not only 65 places behind Harold Baines as a right fielder, but he is behind two people selected as managers (Southworth and Stengel). Granted I am using modern analytics, but even his traditional statistics are unremarkable. Just looking at 19th and early 20th century right fielders who were better: it took Sam Crawford until 1957 to get in and Sam Thompson until 1974.

[oldjudge]

For anyone who complains about the current Hall voters, there are few mistakes more egregious than taking 14 years to induct Kid Nichols. I don't expect many people will agree with me, but Nichols was the single best player of the 19th century.

I think he may have been the best pitcher who played solely in the 19th century. However, I think Delahanty and George Wright were the two greatest 19th century players.

[oldjudge]

Bobby—My guesses would be Brouthers, Tip O’Neal, and Billy Hamilton

[BobbyStrawberry]

Jay, you have two out of the three, including the #1 player that Fred also had.

Hamilton is #1 (.455) and Brouthers is #2 (.423). Other guesses before I give a hint?

-Matthew

[BobbyStrawberry]

Alright, here's a hint: this player is best known for playing with the Cleveland Spiders during the 1890s.

[molenick]

I cheated and looked it up. I would never have guessed this person, but I do know who he is because I keep voting for him whenever there is a poll about overlooked HOF candidates. My guesses were more obvious (Hamilton, Delahanty, Brouthers).

[Misunderestimated]

The Cleveland Spiders hint gave it away ---- Cupid Childs ? Shortish career for a HOFer and one of the 19th Century guys who benefits from analytics. I doubt that people thought he was the greatest 2nd basemen of his time when he was playing. I think Bill James listed him as the best 2B of the 1890's Bid McPhee won the 1880's, played a lot longer, and was a legendary fielder.

My vote for the 19th Century who was overlooked too long would be Hamilton -- they got to him in 1961. If the object of the game is to score more runs than the other team (which it is) he was one of the best ever. Hamilton scored more than one run per game that he played for his career.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Brian, you are correct! Childs put up a career .416 OBP. Not too bad!

[Misunderestimated]

I mentioned that Billy Hamilton averaged greater than one run per game played over his career, One other Old Judge subject (barely) accomplished this remarkable feat over his career also, who was he?

(an aside no one since Hamilton has accomplished this -- only five players have scored in over 80% of the games they played)

[BobbyStrawberry]

George Gore would be my guess (I believe he was the leadoff hitter for many of those great Giants teams)

[Misunderestimated]

Bobby --> You got it ! ... There was another one too (I messed up) Harry Stovey also barely made it.

This is the all-time runs per game list -- with a 500 game minimum and including the National Ass'n. The three guys with the asterisks played 1000+ games and are in the Old Judge set (although Hamilton was a "minor leaguer" as i recall)

__
George Wright - 1.13 (per game)
*Billy Hamilton - 1.06
Cal McVey - 1.05
*George Gore - 1.01
*Harry Stovey - 1.00
--
among the Old Judgers who almost made it are Brouthers, King Kelly, and Hub Collins (shorter career).
==
The "modern" post-1901 leaders at over 80% are Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Earl Combs and Red Rolfe --YANKEES, ALL

[BobbyStrawberry]

Cool! Here's another one, probably not easy–

Among players with OJ cards, six of the top ten career leaders in innings pitched are HOFers (Galvin, Nichols, Keefe, Welch, Clarkson, Radbourn). Who are the other four?

Consider "major leagues" only as currently defined by MLB.

[Misunderestimated]

One is Mullane (pretty sure).... another should be McCormick and.Another might be Bobby Matthews (I'm not sure if he ran up enough innings in the leagues that count)... That's just three. After that Im totally guessing...

[BobbyStrawberry]

You have three of the four, Brian, well done! Only one to go

[spec]

How about Gus Weyhing?

[oldjudge]

The best pitcher I can think of not on the list is Charlie Buffington, but I don’t know if he pitched long enough. In his day he was the equal on any pitcher.

[BobbyStrawberry]

spec, you got it! Weyhing is correct. Here is the list:

1. Pud Galvin 6003.1 (!)
2. Kid Nichols 5067.1
3. Tim Keefe 5049.2
4. Bobby Mathews 4956
5. Mickey Welch 4802
6. John Clarkson 4536.1
7. Count Mullane 4531.1
8. Old Hoss Radbourn 4527.1
9. Gus Weyhing 4337
10. Jim McCormick 4275.2

Charlie Buffinton is a few spots further down with 3404....not bad either!

[Misunderestimated]

Every 19th Century buff knows that Old Hoss won 59 (or 60) in 1884
some other Old Judge subjects hold less known single season.... records name the following:
WAR overall in a season:
Runs in a season:
RBI/Per game in a season
Pitcher Strikeouts in a season
Pitcher WAR in a season
Pitcher ERA in a season
Wild Pitches in a season
Put outs as 2nd Basemen
Stolen Bases in a season
--
Most of these are HOF greats but a few aren't famous at all...

[RUKen]

I think he (Kid Nichols) may have been the best pitcher who played solely in the 19th century. However, I think Delahanty and George Wright were the two greatest 19th century players.

I just wanted to point out that Kid Nichols pitched in the major leagues 1890-1901 and 1904-1906; his career was not confined to the 19th Century.

[darwinbulldog]

Every 19th Century buff knows that Old Hoss won 59 (or 60) in 1884
some other Old Judge subjects hold less known single season.... records name the following:
WAR overall in a season:
Runs in a season:
RBI/Per game in a season
Pitcher Strikeouts in a season
Pitcher WAR in a season
Pitcher ERA in a season
Wild Pitches in a season
Put outs as 2nd Basemen
Stolen Bases in a season
--
Most of these are HOF greats but a few aren't famous at all...

I think WAR is Keefe. Probably pitcher WAR too.

[BobbyStrawberry]

I know two for certain-

WAR overall in a season: Tim Keefe
Pitcher Strikeouts in a season: Matt Kilroy

My guesses on the others-

Runs in a season: Billy Hamilton
RBI/Per game in a season: Dan Brouthers
Pitcher WAR in a season: Radbourn
Pitcher ERA in a season: Radbourn
Wild Pitches in a season: Tim Keefe (somebody who pitched a lot...)
Put outs as 2nd Basemen: Bid McPhee
Stolen Bases in a season: Billy Hamilton

-Matthew

[Misunderestimated]

Matthew-
WAR overall is Keefe
Pitcher K's is Matt "Matches" Kilroy
Keefe is (somehow) NOT Pitcher WAR - I guess he was better hitter than the winner... (and Old Hoss is not the answer, either)
Bid McPhee is the 2nd Basemen with the most put-outs (even without a glove most of the time)
Hamilton is the Runs leader (no surprise)
The others are still "open"
--
I'll drop a few hints. The RBI leader was 1/3 of a HOF outfield....The pitcher WAR winner was (supposedly) the earliest PED user.....The wild pitch leader and the SB leaders are not HOF, or even HOF candidates..One of them was a "little" guy the other is not to be confused with someone named a "Lady" ..

[darwinbulldog]

I'll drop a few hints. The RBI leader was 1/3 of a HOF outfield....The pitcher WAR winner was (supposedly) the earliest PED user.....The wild pitch leader and the SB leaders are not HOF, or even HOF candidates..One of them was a "little" guy the other is not to be confused with someone named a "Lady" ..

pWAR: Galvin?
SB: Baldwin?

[spec]

RBI/game must be Sam Thompson

[molenick]

Since you said "not to be confused with a someone named Lady" my answer is: someone else whose last name is Baldwin. Unfortunately, no other 19th century Baldwin comes to mind.

[Joe_G.]

Having read Roy Kerr's book on Big Sam Thompson - Greatest Clutch Hitter Ever . . .

I'm confident Sam Thompson owns the RBI/game record with ridiculous stats in 1887 and again with the Phillies in the 1890s.

Lady Baldwin had a great 1886 and would lead all NL pitchers that year but falls well short of best single season pitching WAR.

[molenick]

I think the WAR winner is Galvin. I am guessing "Some Other Baldwin" for most WPs.

[Misunderestimated]

Galvin was in the P WAR leader -- I guess he wasn't as valuable a hitter as Keefe (in their respective best seasons)

Joe you are right on Big Sam Thompson -- he was well over an RBI per game played in few seasons in the 1880's and 1890's...In the 1890's he had Billy Hamilton batting in front of him.

The SB leader was Hugh "little Nic" Nichol in 1887 in the AA -- I think the stats were especially crazy that year and I don't think they defined SBs the way we do now. But Nichol is still the recognized all-tiime Single-Season leader just ahead of Rickey Henderson.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/SB_season.shtml

The Wild Pitch record holder is Mark Baldwin -- who was not Charles "Lady" Baldwin. Mark threw 83 WP in 1889... 20 more than second place all-time Tony "Count" Mullane who is still the career total leader... 83 WP is a lot. Cy Young only ran up 156 in his endless career. Greg Maddux had 70.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WP_season.shtml