"New Marlboro Match Base Ball Game" Rules & Diagram [Archive]

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11-18-2008, 03:59 PM

Posted By: ShawnI picked this up recently and think its quite remarkable! I wanted to get every ones opinion on what game you think it is? Another item came with this diagram that I think gives the answer, but I wanted to get an unbiased opinion before I post scans of it. The water mark on the top left corner states "Congress E. Smith". 1. Has anyone ever seen this type of setup? 2. Any value with this diagram (please keep in mind I will post scans of another item that goes with this that really is the "icing on the cake") 3. Any historical importance to this? 4. Recognize any of the names? 5. Are early diagrams of this nature common?(I am having trouble finding one) Thanks in advance! <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/draw22.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/draw22names.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/congress1.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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11-18-2008, 04:10 PM

Posted By: barrysloateShawn- this is a really interesting piece, and the names need to be looked up. The Massachusetts style of baseball used stakes in lieu of bases, and this looks to be around 1850-1860. I will do a little research later this evening.

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11-18-2008, 04:50 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackBaseball by name defines itself as being played with bases. Though base might be an ambiguous term (can a stake be considered a base, as in the player is based at the stake)? By modern baseball terminology, a stake would not be considered a base-- it would be considered a stake. We can be safe in guessing it's not a game vampires played.

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11-18-2008, 04:53 PM

Posted By: Rob LVery cool piece. That looks to be a townball game which of course is related to the Mass. game, rounders, etc. Rob L <a href="http://www.freewebs.com/loefflerrd" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.freewebs.com/loefflerrd</a>/

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11-18-2008, 05:01 PM

Posted By: ShawnPerhaps David... But, if the word "base" refers to a "safe place" rather than an actual thing ie: a plate or a cushioned square etc. than perhaps "base ball" could be the name? "Our home is our base" David... you keep revising, I cannot keep up <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-18-2008, 05:04 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackShawn, we had the same thoughts on the meaning of base ("Can a stake be a base? Perhaps"), which is why I revised after the thought. Though I get full credit for the vampire theory. I think the game should be called sofa cushion ball. Not only do the MLB bases look like sofa cushions, but there would no historical linguistic confusion as no one in the 1800s or today would sit on a stake. A stake might be used as a base, but no way would it be used as a sofa cushion.

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11-18-2008, 05:13 PM

Posted By: ShawnI think i agree with you on the Vampire theory! What gets me about the diagram is the fact that there are 5 stakes or is "home" considered one and that makes it 6 stakes? There are a few references to 5 stakes in baseball history, but in a pentagon shape?

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11-18-2008, 05:15 PM

Posted By: barrysloate"Man at the Club" is a strange name for a batter. I've never heard that term used before. I'm trying to make a connection with the names; Townsend sounds familiar. But I haven't been able to place any of them.

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11-18-2008, 05:20 PM

Posted By: barrysloateI am also not feeling 100% certain that it is baseball. It does looks like it, but the extra stake as well as the term I cited suggests the possibility of some bat and ball variant.

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11-18-2008, 05:25 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackYou might discover its the blue print for someone's sewer pipes.

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11-18-2008, 05:26 PM

Posted By: ShawnYeah... I think the phrase "Man at the club" is quite interesting. I think we should start using that phrase in baseball! Barry I am trying to find any connection with sports and the names also. No luck yet. Thank you for investigating.

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11-18-2008, 05:28 PM

Posted By: ShawnHa! It could ba an early diagram for a septic system!

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11-18-2008, 05:29 PM

Posted By: barrysloateIn his book "Baseball Before We Knew It", David Block cites an early game called "club-ball." This game is most closely related to cricket, and there was no mention of an extra stake. So that isn't it.

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11-18-2008, 05:29 PM

Posted By: davidcyclebackClub, as in club house, might be the equivalent of home.

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11-18-2008, 08:56 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI was one of the under bidders on this item so I have some idea what the "icing" may be, In any event I beleive that this is a townball/rounders varient. Below I have posted to contemporary diagrams which seem to show a similar game. The first is for a game titled rounders and is from "The Encyclopidea of Rural Sports" (1874). The second is for a game titled townball or rounders and is from the "American Boy's Book" (1864). <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1227070162.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1227070303.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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11-19-2008, 04:58 AM

Posted By: ShawnFirst, I apologize for the huge scans, but I thought every one would like to read the "Rules and Regulations" and it was the only way to make them clear. Ok, Here is the other item I spoke of. As you can see, it states "Rules and Regulations of the New Marlboro Match Base Ball Co". I am not sure of the last two letters in that title? Could it be something short for the word "game"? Also, the seller told me that the names on the diagram are people that graduated from "South Berkshire Institute" located in New Marlboro, Massachusetts in 1862. That location is about 25 miles south of Pittsfield, Mass. of which could be of some importance. I am having trouble verifying whether the people listed below went to South Berkshire or not? 1. The actual sheet that the rules are written on is about 2 feet long thus the double scan. 2. The rules are written on the same kind of paper with the same water mark. Also, red ink is used on the rules as on the diagram. 3. Does this in your mind constitute an early version of baseball? 4. What kind of value would you put on this and how best can I preserve it? Would love to hear your input and thanks again! <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/top1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/bottom1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/bottom1names.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/top1stamp.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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11-19-2008, 05:21 AM

Posted By: barrysloateWhether you want to call this an early form of baseball, or some bat and ball variant, it clearly shares some of the rules of baseball, and is certainly an historically interesting piece. As far as value, totally subjective. It depends how badly someone wants it. Best way to store it is in mylar sleeves, but as you said this is very large and I don't know if they make sleeves that big. Great find!

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11-19-2008, 05:51 AM

Posted By: ShawnThanks Barry, Your right about the value being subjective... I have tried to find something comparative without success. I can find early booklets with rules but nothing hand written. I think the one name is David Ives Bushnell but that is all I have come up with so far? I will keep hunting.

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11-19-2008, 05:59 AM

Posted By: barrysloateShawn- there was a time when I was an active collector of this early material, and I used the following criteria to determine a piece's significance: There are many early examples, dating roughly between 1800-1850, of games played with a bat and a ball. It seems that children from all eras enjoyed hitting round objects with wooden sticks, and you can find dozens of games like this. What qualified as a significant piece was one that clearly used the term "baseball" (and incorporated at least a primitive set of recognizable rules). So since this piece is not baseball, I would evaluate it as a really interesting document, but not terribly valuable. However, it is always possible to find someone who would value it highly. I still think it is a great find.

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11-19-2008, 06:05 AM

Posted By: Jodi BirkholmI love old pieces like this. If it's not prying too much, where did you find such a unique item? I'm amazed President Taft was one of the designers of this particular variant. I would have thought him too portly to waddle around the bases. <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif">

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11-19-2008, 06:36 AM

Posted By: AnonymousBarry, With the name "Base Ball" in the title of the rules, does this not help its case?

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11-19-2008, 07:11 AM

Posted By: barrysloateYes, it does help its case, but the diagram is clearly not baseball. Although the game has gone through countless changes over the years, it never existed with five bases. I think it's the kind of piece that will move collectors differently. It's much more interesting than most documents from that era I have seen, but I'm not sure how that translates in the marketplace. Maybe there is more to the use of the term "base ball" than first meets the eye. If I reread David Block's book, I might find some key information, but don't have the time right now. It might not be a bad idea to pick it up; it was published by Nebraska Press.

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11-19-2008, 07:24 AM

Posted By: barrysloateShawn- I just went on ebay and saw what you paid for it- it was a steal. You got a fantastic deal.

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11-19-2008, 07:56 AM

Posted By: ShawnThanks Barry, I was a little nervous as I could not figure out exactly what I was buying. Its difficult to find anything on this format, although I am finding references to "five Stakes" and even "five bases plus a home plate".

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11-19-2008, 08:33 AM

Posted By: Steve MurrayI'm going to have to expand my search parameters. Listed in category: Collectibles > Paper > Ephemera > 1800-99 Damn nice pickup at a great price. Can't go wrong here.

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11-20-2008, 07:01 AM

Posted By: ramramI was the runner-up on this interesting item. I'd call it a variation of Rounders and the Massachusetts game. It was determined to definitely be from around 1863 as the seller had an autograph album that contained all of those same men (BTW, that's not the future president Taft) signed into it with multiple 1863 dates (Shawn - she was suppose to send a copy of the pages from the autograph album with the item - you might ask her for it so that it's not lost to history). Had this item been from the 1840's or early 1850's I would have bid much higher as I would consider that a period when base ball was still finding its future path. Since it was from around 1863, it was more like the Neaderthals species - split apart and fading fast. Bottom line though, it's a great piece and a fair price. Rob M.

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11-20-2008, 07:08 AM

Posted By: Jodi BirkholmMy Taft comment was yet another failed attempt at humor.

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11-20-2008, 07:25 AM

Posted By: ramramSorry Jodi, didn't look far enough to the right to see your <img src="/images/wink.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="wink.gif"> Rob M.

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11-20-2008, 07:34 AM

Posted By: ShawnThank you Rob for the info. 1863 seems to be the year these guys graduated, I would guess the date of the diagram to be before that? Maybe 1855-1860, but at this point there is no way to confirm that(but still does not change your point). At first I thought the middle initials on the Bushnell and Taft were a "J", but now I am pretty sure its an "I". So I am starting fresh with hunting down those names. We shall see. Interesting also, is that I found this letter written by General Custer with the same "Congress, E. Smith" logo embossed on it. Pretty cool! Edited to change my "intials" <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/catalogs1.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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11-20-2008, 07:48 AM

Posted By: ShawnI also found this notation on the retrosheet site. Pittsfield is about 25 miles north of New Marlboro... 1859.1 First Intercollegiate [Town Ball] Game: Amherst 73, Williams 32 In the first intercollegiate baseball game ever played, Amherst defeats Williams 73-32 in 26 innings, played under the Massachusetts Game rules. The contest is staged in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, a neutral site, at the invitation of the Pittsfield Base Ball Club. Pittsfield Sun, July 7, 1859. Reprinted in Dean A. Sullivan, Compiler and Editor, Early Innings: A Documentary History of Baseball, 1825-1908 [University of Nebraska Press, 1995], pp. 32-34. Also, Durant, John, The Story of Baseball in Words and Pictures [Hastings House, NY, 1947], p .10. Per Millen, note # 35. ||70|| The two schools also competed at chess that weekend. Amherst Express, Extra, July 1 - 2, 1859 [Amherst, MA], per David Block, Baseball Before We Knew It, page 219. A two-page broadsheet tells of Amherst taking on Williams in both base ball and chess.

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11-20-2008, 07:54 AM

Posted By: ramramI'd actually suspect that the item is from within plus or minus a year or two of the 1863 date, but that's certainly arguable. The seller did also mention this: "Taft I believe to be associated with the Tafts that founded the Taft School (private prep school) in Watertown. Bushnell is a name associated with Bushnell park in Hartford." However, since it was later determined that these boys were in a prep school in Massachusetts, it's possible that there's not actually a Connecticut connection, like the seller originally thought, at all. I also tried to do quite a bit of searching during the auction but came up empty on the names. Rob M.

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11-20-2008, 09:12 AM

Posted By: Jimmy LeidermanCould the seal be related to Edward Henry Smith, who was a U.S. Representative from New York elected as a Democrat to the 37th Congress (March 4, 1861-March 3, 1863)?

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11-20-2008, 09:30 AM

Posted By: ShawnThats interesting Jimmy, I will dive in and see what I can find. Thanks

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11-24-2008, 07:35 PM

Posted By: ShawnI went ahead and picked up this home-made autograph album that came from the same school (South Berkshire Institute) that the diagram came from. The album belonged to Carrington Phelps and appears to be from 1863. All four signatures that are on the Base Ball Rules and Regulations are also in the album. The signature of W. L. Camp is quite elaborate and makes me wonder is he is the one who drew up the rules and diagram. I thought this may add to the validity of the whole thing? There are 46 signatures in the booklet! Needless to say, I have quite a bit of research to do now... Here is a list of some of the male names. W. L. Camp - Winsted, CT. Robert G. Fitch - Sheffield, Mass Charles J Townsend - Monterey, Mass Reginald Canning - Stockbridge, Mass George N. Hayward - CT. David Ives Bushnell - Sheffield, Mass A. B. Church - Wassaic, NY. William Taft - Sheffield, Mass John R Huggins - Sheffield, Mass Charles Stoddard - CT. Henry T Powell - New Marlboro, Mass Mason B. Smith - Mill River, Mass George C. Walter - Southfield, Mass Frank Warner - Mill River, Mass H. W. Rising - New Marlboro, Mass John P. Cook - Winsted, CT Edward G. Day - Barrington, Mass William H Clark - Sheffield, Mass W. H. Chapin - Barrington, Mass John B. Walker - New Marlboro, Mass Maybe I will get lucky and find a famous autograph in this thing! Here are some scans. <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/phelps1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/camp1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/powell1.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/town1.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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11-24-2008, 10:00 PM

Posted By: JamieAbsolutely incredible. Thank you for sharing this piece. Jamie

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11-25-2008, 02:00 PM

Posted By: Tom Boblitt........

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11-25-2008, 08:16 PM

Posted By: ShawnI am curious about the first rule #1 the "throwing of the bat"... Does anyone understand how that worked?

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01-13-2009, 11:44 AM

Posted By: ShawnAfter searching for sometime, I have finally found some pictures of the South Berkshire Institute. Thanks to the New Marlboro Historical Society. I thought some of you would like to see them. Also, a copy of the diagram and rules are going to be displayed in an exhibit commemorating the 250th anniversary of the town of New Marlboro, Ma.!! I also want to thank all those have have helped me in researching these documents. You have been great and I hope I can return the favor someday. <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/NewImage.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/Berkshire_Institute3plans.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/South_Berkshire_Institutewladies2.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

smokelessjoe

08-03-2011, 02:31 PM

I have been going through some of my stuff recently and just realized that I never posted the articles that were written in the local monthly New Marlborough 5 News journal in reference to the 1860s Base Ball rules & diagram. Thought everyone would enjoy the read so I am listing them now. First one is the April 2009 issue and the second is the May 2009 issue. The April issue has an article written by the local historian Jon Swan and a second article written by Richard Hershberger, a well known baseball historian. The May issue has a follow-up article written by Jon Swan pertaining to the Autographed Album from the South Berkshire Institute that ties all the pieces together.

A side note: Richard Hershberger wrote a more extensive article in the Spring 2010 issue of Base Ball -A Journal of the Early Game-

Special thanks to Jon & Richard for all the time, effort and exceptional work.

Shawn

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/CopyofAprilIssue1g.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/AprilIssue2g.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/AprilIssue3g.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/MayIssue1g.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/MayIssue2g.jpg