Scan 1939 Play Ball Frank Hayes PSA/DNA Goof! [Archive]

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01-05-2009, 01:18 PM

Posted By: Fred CHere's the link to the other thread... <a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1230937818/last-1231001517/PSA-DNA+Goofed..+Scan+Added+-+1939+Play+Ball+Frank+Hayes" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1230937818/last-1231001517/PSA-DNA+Goofed..+Scan+Added+-+1939+Play+Ball+Frank+Hayes</a> I can't say I'm amazed or surprised by it because now it's to the point where "Ive seen it all" well almost... 5 days into the new year and I've still kept my New Years resolution of not bashing PSA... boy that resolution really sucks... I didn't say PSA sucked, I said the resolution sucked so I'm still in tact with the resolution...

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01-05-2009, 01:26 PM

Posted By: Robert KlevensPSA/DNA doesn't care. Here is a fake Sadaharu Oh autograph. I specialize in Japanese autographs. I spoke with them before and they could care less if they are real or not. <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250255476959" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250255476959> " target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250255476959> </a></a>

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01-05-2009, 01:33 PM

Posted By: Brianwhen i got the card, i got it becausei thought i could make a good profit on the card.. that is why i got it "authenticated". i still need the money but i can not honestly sell this card knowing it is not real. for years i have seen unauthenticated signatures on eBay and the seller usually states that he does not trust 3rd party authentication.. i always thought this was just an excuse so they could sell forged signatures with no COA.. but now, it seems like they were right in theory all along.. this card is certified, but clearly not legit.. what would you do if you had this card?

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01-05-2009, 01:36 PM

Posted By: Robert KlevensBrian- I think if you contact PSA/DNA with the evidence of the other cards with the similar handwriting on Ebay they will buy it from you to keep it off the market.

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01-05-2009, 01:41 PM

Posted By: Fred CBrian, How much do you have into that card (ebay cost, shipping fees, PSA authenticating fees)?

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01-05-2009, 01:45 PM

Posted By: Briani have $6 in the card, $15 for authenticating, and about $10 in shipping.. a buddy sent it in for me using his account so i had a lot of shipping charges. i know i can only expect to get what i have in the card, but.....

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01-05-2009, 01:46 PM

Posted By: Briani think i would rather keep the card for conversation than get $25 for it.

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01-05-2009, 01:53 PM

Posted By: randIS this an Embarassment for PSA?

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01-05-2009, 01:55 PM

Posted By: Fred CBrian, You read my mind. I wanted to buy it from you and have it for the same reason... it's a great conversation piece.

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01-05-2009, 01:56 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHold onto it, Brian. 1- Learn from it... a fellow needs to know what he's buying, and not trust 3rd party graders to get it right. The slabs are convenient protection for the card while in transit, and that is about all. It reminds me of what I heard was said to a radiologist by an ER physician while they looked at a couple who'd been carted into the ER after a motorcycle accident, "The helmet only helps you find the head." 2- One day, if I win Powerball, I might build a huge, multi-story museum dedicated to baseball cards. One floor (maybe the basement, so that weight support would be less of an issue) could be dedicated to mis-slabbed cards. There's zillions of 'em. You could put your card on loan there.

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01-05-2009, 02:19 PM

Posted By: Brianthe part of me that says GGRRRRR to PSA wants me to out the card on PSA with a million dollar BIN jsut to shed some light on the subject. i sent PSa an email today.. lets see what they have to say.

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01-05-2009, 02:33 PM

Posted By: SeanWhat did they ever say about this card? <img src="http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g193/hanksta3/wag.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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01-05-2009, 02:47 PM

Posted By: Brianno word as of yet..

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01-05-2009, 02:49 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanpsa will say..."oops" and offer you your $20 back.

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01-05-2009, 02:55 PM

Posted By: Sean BHI'm thinking Pete is right...if they really even care. Like you said it might be fun to list it on eBay for a million BIN, it will only cost you $.35!

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01-05-2009, 03:19 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldIf you list it as suggested above, offer free shipping. That always helps!!!

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01-05-2009, 04:42 PM

Posted By: Fred CPSA will proabably also "de-certify" the certification number as if the card was never sent in for authentication. In the future you'll checkt he cert number and it will come up non-existent. Put the card in the BST, I'm sure someone will buy it... me....

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01-05-2009, 04:58 PM

Posted By: BrianFred.. email me - bcrott@msophs.com.. or look on ebay with item #330298914373

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01-05-2009, 05:07 PM

Posted By: dennis<a href="http://tinyurl.com/9omzw7" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/9omzw7</a>

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01-05-2009, 05:14 PM

Posted By: Frank L.This is a 1939 Playball of Charlie Gehringer that was part of a prewar lot I obtained about 4 years ago. It was the only card with writing on it. See bottom of card. I dont collect autographs. I believe this is not real based on other scans I have seen of his signature. I include it out of interest for this thread. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231204448.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-05-2009, 06:04 PM

Posted By: Fred CThat's a great ebay item. I really like the fact that it's up for a 30 day auction. That is really neat! Somehow I doubt that PSA will fork out $4K for it but it's free advertisement for them! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-06-2009, 05:07 AM

Posted By: SteveWhat's really neat is the way he has MS tied into it. Steve

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01-06-2009, 05:29 AM

Posted By: Steve FBrian, It would be more likely to sell if 100% instead of half went towards your disease, ehh? Hmm, auctions gone. Sold?

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01-06-2009, 07:16 AM

Posted By: Brianthe auction was stopped for key word violations.. so now i am giving a Babe Ruth reprint card to the winner.. the new auction number is 330299028590

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01-06-2009, 07:49 AM

Posted By: SteveBrian, It would be more likely to sell if 100% instead of half went towards your disease, ehh? I think Brian is more concerned with making a quick buck then helping MS. I was going to donate a few bucks to MS through his sigline over at CU but it lead me to his personal Pay pal account and not MS. Also with his feedback and previous sale of a fake auto this item seems right up his alley. Steve

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01-06-2009, 07:55 AM

Posted By: leonSo the card that is worth about $25 on a good day is being sold for $4000 obo.....and $2000 of that will go to MS? I think I need to get into the charity business....

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01-06-2009, 08:07 AM

Posted By: Brianif the card sells, that i great.. i am listing in on ebay witha 30 day auction.. notice that? if i really wanted it sold, i would do a 3 day auction right? oh, and what fake autograps are you talking about? you really need to explain yourself before you start making statements like that. this post as the auction is to raise awarness to teh fact the PSA/DNA is not the be all end all that so many think it is. and the MS donations does go to my paypal account... i have had many donations, and they all get forwarded to the MS Association.

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01-06-2009, 08:09 AM

Posted By: Briancan the person who has the scan of the Frank Dumase "signed" card please email me the picture? i would like to include it in the auction to compare the 2 "Frank" signatures. thanks

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01-06-2009, 08:10 AM

Posted By: leonI am just curious. You have the card listed at $4000 and half of that will go to MS. If you are really trying to help MS it would seem like 98% would go there...and you would still make a profit on the card at $80? I think helping charities, and volunteering, are very noble causes. best regards

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01-06-2009, 08:25 AM

Posted By: BrianLeon, thanks for the input. i just raised teh donation amount to 75%. i would like to sell it, and everything that goes with it, but i would also like to keep it to shed llight on the 3rd party authentication. In your opinion, do you think this card would sell if the donation percentage was higher than 75%?

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01-06-2009, 08:53 AM

Posted By: Brian90% is now going to charity, after eBay fees ($123.00 FVF) i will get the $250 i was expecting to get if the card was indeed real and sold.

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01-06-2009, 09:00 AM

Posted By: DJThere are a couple of things you are not taking into consideration. By selling something that you know is worthless, all you are asking for is a donation. Why would anyone want a fake autograph for that price? All you are saying is "give me $4,000 and here's your worthless signature, but proof that PSA/DNA doesn't know what they are doing!". Second, the autograph is a forgery. You can't announce to the eBay world that you are selling a forgery because selling fraudulent autographs, believe it or not, is prohibited. The item will get taken down everytime and if you throw it up a few times, your account will probably be suspended. DJ

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01-06-2009, 09:01 AM

Posted By: leonI was just making an observation. I never like to tell folks what to donate of volunteer for...Good luck with the auction....

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01-06-2009, 09:06 AM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyAs was just stated you aren't going to be able to sell this on ebay stating that it isn't a legit autograph. PSA will likely just compensate you for your actual expenses--take that and consider yourself lucky. Looking to profit from this situation, even while giving some money to a charity just seems really disingenuine to me and many others. The fact that you would have made $250 if the item was legit is silly because the item IS NOT legit. -Rhett

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01-06-2009, 09:07 AM

Posted By: BrianDJ, the card is not a forgery, as in teh ad, it states teh the original owner simply wrote the players names on the front of the card.

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01-06-2009, 09:08 AM

Posted By: marty qbrian, i think steve is reffering to your ebay negative about selling a fake autograph!! being kind of a hypocrite are you not! lets see, psa made a mistake that "all" needs to see and hear, but you being accused of selling a fake jordon auto gets a pass?? why did you get so upset when steve mentioned it? and making it right after the fact dont wash. you tried to make money on this and tied it to m.s., i have a very close family member with m.s, matter of fact just had a major back operation that went bad because of his crooked spine, when he collected for m.s. he never said he was keeping half!! he always said 100% goes towards the cause, from the get-go you should have did an auction with no rsv. with all going to m.s!! including the whole few bucks you have into it!!! you messed up twice, exposing a psa "bad' has exposed your ebay history of selling a fake jordon auto., and using m.s to make $2,000 grand. and the fact that what steve said makes me wonder. a donantion attempt goes right to your pay pal acct.??? holy cow what is that!!!

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01-06-2009, 09:19 AM

Posted By: Brianok,

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01-06-2009, 09:36 AM

Posted By: Brianlet me address 1 issue at a time.. the Jordan was sold for a friend, it was a statue, i refunded teh buyer after he returned the statue.. no harm, no foul. MS is not an excuse to make $2000. i would love to have the entire $4000, but i thought it would have been a good gesture ot donate some of the money.. what should be seen as a good deed (i do not have to donate a red cent) is seen as greed?

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01-06-2009, 09:49 AM

Posted By: quannow i see why you didn't post this on the CU board...they would've jumped on you much faster with your history and been less civil about it. either contact psa so they can reimburse your cost for the mistake, or keep it to embarass PSA or whatever. stop trying to look for a handout and cloak it as some noble charity deed, you're not fooling anyone here.

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01-06-2009, 09:52 AM

Posted By: SteveFrom this sellers feedback page: Negative feedback ratingBUYERS BEWARE! SAID ITEM WAS HANDSIGNED BY JORDAN BUT WAS NOT. REFUSED REFUND!!! imqru1042 ( 1371 [Feedback score is 1,000 to 4,999] ) Apr-30-08 14:45 * Follow-up by imqru1042 (May-06-08 13:34): YES!!! THIER IS JUSTICE AFTER ALL. YOU LIED, YOU STOLE MY MONEY. NOW YOUR NLARU1 -- (#330209405438) Care to elaborate on that one? Steve

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01-06-2009, 09:53 AM

Posted By: Frank L.Brian MS is a bad disease, I have dealt with many who have it. Good luck to you. God be with you in your future struggles with it. Sincerely Frank L.

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01-06-2009, 09:57 AM

Posted By: Jeff"MS is not an excuse to make $2000. i would love to have the entire $4000, but i thought it would have been a good gesture ot donate some of the money.. what should be seen as a good deed (i do not have to donate a red cent) is seen as greed?" I'm not linking to your new auction since you took the last one down but why have you now removed the charity portion? Now it does look like your greedy. Jeff

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01-06-2009, 09:58 AM

Posted By: SteveQuan he did post about it over there, at first it was how he found this great card for .99 because the seller listed it in the wrong category. NO MENTION was made that he (the previous seller) said in the auction that it was not a legit signature. Something he know says. Also, when he sent it in and he first saw that it was authenticated he was on cloud nine, again NO MENTION that the previous seller said it was not legit. ONLY after he came here and asked for advice and found out that it was not legit did he change his tune. Up to 2 days ago he said " I will wait to see how this gets resolved by PSA I have an email into Joe" He gave Joe all of 1 day to reply! Last night the thread he originally started was poofed by a mod. I stand by my comments regarding his selling of a fake Jordan in the past. Either he is a liar or the buyer is. Steve

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01-06-2009, 10:03 AM

Posted By: BrianSteve, did you read the eBay auction.. i stated what the original seller said in his auction, and what i thought.. (i thought he was mistaken).. in my CU post, i even linked to the auction.. oh, and the jordan thing again.. i was NARU'd because i changed my credit card on file and i became late in my seller fees.. once paid, i was reinstated. come on guys, give it all you got.. everything i have done is justified..

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01-06-2009, 10:08 AM

Posted By: Steve1.......When you first brought that card to the attention of the folks over at CU YOU MADE NO MENTION of what the seller said in his auction. Who cares what you know said? 2....Who cares why you got Naru'd? You sold a fake Jordan auto according to the feedback. If you want to debate this at least stay on topic. Steve

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01-06-2009, 10:11 AM

Posted By: DJ"...the card is not a forgery, as in teh ad, it states teh the original owner simply wrote the players names on the front of the card." Sorry, if it is not signed by Frank himself, it is in fact a dis-genuine item and prohibited to be sold on eBay. Regardless of who signed it, it was not signed by Frank and therefore not legitimate. And I think we are all a little uncomfortable with you tying MS to this. What you are trying to do is donate a large sum of money to a charity, but you are doing it by trying to make a company look bad and you are trying to make a .99 sale into what it would sell for if legit (a hearty profit) as well. Put up some stuff that isn't a goof and in fact legitimate and donate the procedes to MS in that manner. No matter what % that would be. DJ

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01-06-2009, 10:33 AM

Posted By: Brianone more thing.. you may wonder where i got the $4000 figure from.. well, it is the max amount eBay will let you put for a BIN where hte buyer has to do an instant payment. the reason for instant payment.. so someone does not use the BIN with no intention of buying.

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01-06-2009, 01:38 PM

Posted By: marty q oh my god already!!! it's ....thethethethethethethe..........not...........t ehtehtehtehtehtehtehteh

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01-06-2009, 01:43 PM

Posted By: Steve"let me address 1 issue at a time.. the Jordan was sold for a friend, it was a statue, i refunded teh buyer after he returned the statue.. no harm, no foul." For you maybe, the buyer thought otherwise. Steve

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01-06-2009, 01:56 PM

Posted By: leonYou always come up with those pesky details. Troublemaker......

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01-06-2009, 02:02 PM

Posted By: Scott Mt. JoyI also read your CU post and your were happy gloating how you got such a deal, now you want to sell a worthless item and as a 2k donation, lol. Steve nailed it, you are just a greedy fool trying to make a buck or 2k. Please go away.

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01-07-2009, 08:08 AM

Posted By: Briannot that i want to beat a dead horse, but besides PSA-DNA contacting me yesterday and offering $75 in cash or grading vouchers... They suspended my PSA message board account.. i guess they want to shut me up on that site. Yep, they make the mistake.. i bring it to light, and the kick me off their site.. thanks PSA!

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01-07-2009, 11:59 AM

Posted By: Sean CYou used it to try to hold PSA/DNA over the barrel so to speak, then raised a big stink about it and make them look bad before they had a chance to respond. It's probably for the best that they deleted your account over there, since in the thread that was deleted there were more than a few "you've lost all respect" type posts from the other board members, and I can't imagine that you'd have done well if you had continued to post there.

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01-07-2009, 12:29 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaGeez....what a train wreck this turned into.

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01-07-2009, 01:03 PM

Posted By: SteveWhat did you expect? You trashed them there, here and on Ebay. All before you allowed them an opportunity to reply. Good luck getting anything for it now. Steve

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01-07-2009, 01:21 PM

Posted By: Brianwell, i think that the funny thing is that PSA-DNA says it is simply a lebeling mistake. and that they are not trying to take it off the market. If they are not trying to take it off teh market, when was i offered 3 times the card value accouding to the PSA-DNA rep i dealt with? He said teh card is worth 5 - 15, and i have $20 in authentication and shipping.

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01-07-2009, 03:29 PM

Posted By: SteveYou were already told it is not TEH it is 'THE'. Steve

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01-07-2009, 04:01 PM

Posted By: Briani am tryingto make "teh" the NEW "the"...

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01-07-2009, 04:07 PM

Posted By: TFergMaybe you can convince PSA to "BRING THE NOISE". Or just take their offer and be happy, it seems like a more than fair offer.

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01-07-2009, 04:13 PM

Posted By: Briantook a bad turn.. but i do have one question to all that will read this. Do you think it was a lebeling error like they claim? or they authenticated an unauthentic autograph?

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01-07-2009, 06:05 PM

Posted By: SteveThey made a mistake. It isn't the end of the world. It is not their first mistake nor will it be the last. They have after all, graded/authenticated 13 million items. If the person said what you claim, it was BS or maybe that is what that person believed at the time. They made you a very fair offer, you could have countered and asked for 100.00, instead you choose to be a public service announcer which makes you appear bitter and foolish. You really made a big deal out of basically nothing. If this is the way you act over a 25.00 deal I can just imagine how you conduct yourself when 1000's are at stake. Was it worth it? You can no longer post over there, and by tieing in the MS charity you ruffled a few feathers here. In any event Brian good luck. Steve

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01-07-2009, 06:23 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldBrian didn't trash them... they trashed themselves. Wake up, guys. PSA knows what they do. What they do is bilk money from folks who aren't certain about their cards, who want hand-holding, or folks who've fallen prey to set registry frenzy. They do it under the guise of grading cards. I'm in the midst of reading a book I got a year or two ago, Ponzi's Scheme. A biography of Charles Ponzi and what he did. From time to time I think of Tulipmania, and of baseball card grading. Brian doesn't seem bitter or foolish to me... Go, Brian!!! But for goodness sake, don't cave in for PSA vouchers. Real American dollars. Last thing a fellow would want is for them to grade more stuff. And you know anything Brian sends in will be scrutinized. If PSA has graded 13 million cards, then I expect them to have gotten that many correct. I realize that some folks accept a percentage of mistakes as tolerable. That's the American way, most of the lug nuts tightened, most of the lines on the 1040 correct, most of the correct teeth filled, most of the money in your checking account really there. Most is enough.

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01-07-2009, 06:37 PM

Posted By: MattAhhh Tulipmania. I still recall selling my Praestans Unicum for $200 a bulb. I still have a few left if anybody wants. <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mwieder/ForTradeSale" rel="nofollow">My Trade/Sale Page</a>

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01-07-2009, 06:46 PM

Posted By: SteveYeah Frank we all can't be as perfect as you. Steve

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01-07-2009, 08:29 PM

Posted By: fkwHi Frank L., Here is a signed '39 Gehringer, so you can compare. <img src="http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1939r334gehringerauto.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Frank W

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01-07-2009, 08:52 PM

Posted By: Fred CI'm no expert but that Gehringer sig looks like the real deal.

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01-08-2009, 05:08 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanFrank...very well stated...and I agree with you 100%. 1 mistake...as simple as mis-labeling a pose...is too many for a grading company...this is supposedly what they do and what they're paid to do. I don't think my patients would be ok with me doing a good job part of the time.

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01-08-2009, 05:31 AM

Posted By: SteveI see our OP received another negative. Pesky lil detail about refusing to honor a sale. Steve

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01-08-2009, 05:40 AM

Posted By: Steve "I don't think my patients would be ok with me doing a good job part of the time". lol perhaps the funniest thing, no make that the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on a message board. Yes, lets equate baseball card grading with health care. lol Steve

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01-08-2009, 05:52 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanSteve...maybe my analogy was outlandish...but your mentality is part of the reason why America is such a big mess right now!

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01-08-2009, 05:57 AM

Posted By: Frank L.Hello Frank W. Excellent. Thanks for such a 1:1 comparison, same card, signature at same spot. Looks like whowever owned my card just likely wrote Gehr's name at bottom to identify card from front. Just a guess. Appreciate time and effort to help me with that. Frank L.

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01-08-2009, 06:03 AM

Posted By: Frank L.Whole thing reminds me of an Archie Bunker episode. Gloria speaking to Archie:"Boy, that is convoluted logic" Archie:"Yes, that's the kind of straight thinking I'm trying to get through to you". Frank L.

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01-08-2009, 07:11 AM

Posted By: Steve F Steve, I understood Peter's comparison and believe your comment was over the top. Of course he wasn't directly comparing the two Dentists to Authenticators, but customer service in a general sense. Peter is a respected and long-time contributer here. It's okay to be loyal to your prefered Grader (I collect PSA as well). I think you'll agree, if you don't read to deeply into peter's post, the put-down was undeserved. Steve F

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01-08-2009, 08:12 AM

Posted By: Steve My mentality? That baseball card grading is not a life or death thing? You equated it with health care not me by saying 'patients' Yes I know you are a valued member here, I was just giving my opinion. I was not being overboard in my remark, at least that was not my intent. You yourself said it was outlandish, which I agree with you it was. Maybe it wasn't the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen on a message board it was close. Steve

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01-08-2009, 08:17 AM

Posted By: Steve.but your mentality is part of the reason why America is such a big mess right now! lol yeah the Good old USA is in deep doo doo because PSA gets some grades wrong. With that, before I piss off anyone I'm done. Steve