Baseball Card corruption [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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01-02-2009, 08:00 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI thought this should be a follow up post to Bruce's concerns about who and what the government is investigating because i find it odd that people actually think the baseball card world is legit. I have been buying and selling baseball cards for 20 years and not the nickel and dime type cards. I have also attended several major card shows that bring out PSA,SGC and all major card dealers. The entire hobby is corrupt and the amount of honest people in the high end card game is very slim. Here is a prime example. I recently got into a riff with some of the members on this board and they basically called me out over some clown named Billy who i did not know and acted like i did not pocess alot of T-206 cards and actually questioned if a imposter was posting for me which i found amusing. I will say that Leon is a class act and sent a personal e-mail which let me know he does actually care and has a passion for cards and the people that own them. Of the 1500 T-206 cards that i own i decided to send a collection that i bought which consisted of 250 cards and they had some real strong Southern Leauguers in it. I have always suspected that the card graders such as PSA are totally corrupt and will always give better grades to dealers and also in regards to PSA protect graded cards which are in their set registry. I sent the cards to a auction house and allowed the owner to send them in, we spoke over the phone before they were sent and out of 125 cards my personal grading was off on only 2 cards when they got slabbed. The cards were sent to PSA and the grading was correct. After the auction ended i had to basically get rude in order to recieve my money so i decided to skip sending anymore of my cards to auction because it was a very uncomfrotable scene and i am very old school so without saying anymore trust me my friends somehow someway i am gonna get Paid. I spoke personally to Joe Orlando who is the CEO of PSA and told him about my concerns because i am not a dealer and also spoke of the cards i own and that i would like the same consideration as other high end dealers when submitting cards, we worked out a arrangement but i am no dummy so instead of sending in some T-206's i started with some 1944 Gum Inc American Beauties just in case old Joe and the graders brought their Brett Favre game. If the cards were graded honestly their value is around 7,500. These cards were cello packed pulled and out of 48 cards their was at least 2 10's and about 7-10 9's some of which would have been the first ever found 9's. The cards basically never saw the light of day for 60 years because they were in a chest in the attic on a board which had 12 cello packs attached to it and a dealer who saw my post in the non-sports section offered me 5 figures for the cards and the board . Let me also state for the record that i have submitted to Beckett about 200 cards of which over 175 have been graded BGS 9.5 and some BGS 10 which is not easy to do and up until these cards i have submitted to PSA about 9 cards of which all came back PSA Gem-Mint 10 except for a Pujols rookie and Billy Butler rookie which i knew were 9's. I just got online and saw that the grading for the American Beauties and out of 48 cards only 1 came back a 9 and isn't it odd that the particular card that got a 9 has 15 other 9's on the pop report which is no coincidence, how nice of PSA to throw me a bone. A majority of the cards were graded between 7 and 8 which is almost laughable due to how nice and clean the cards are and the fact that the cards were razor sharp with nothing on the back. There is no doubt in my mind that the cards were snubbed because i am not a dealer and that the cards in the set registry were protected, if a well known dealer had sent in the cards then they would have been graded correctly. Basically PSA just cost me about 5 thousand and Mr. Orlando will not return my phone calls so instead of taking it on the chin i think i'll take the shot and now start throwing some myself. I ask all the members of this board to ask this question- How many times have you cracked out a card from a PSA holder and then re-submitted it and the grade comes back 1 or 2 points lower? How can a 8 come back a 6.5 and a 6 come back a 4.5? How many times have you been at a card show and watched certain people get grades and then look at the card in the holder and just laugh? The answer is obvious the company is bogus and their is shady things going on all the time behind the scenes especially at the major card shows. I hope the government is investigating these fu#$%king goofballs and does something to clean up the hobby because i'm trying to figure out if Joe is friends with Bernie Madoff (-: unlike most card buyers who really don't want to express their opinion due to the retalition i have plenty of cash and alot of super nice cards and i'm not intimidated by any of these suedo auction houses or grading companies. PSA should change from Pro Sports Authenticator to Pro Scam Alliance. Good day Joe and i hope you and the rest of the snots that work for you read this post because your holders are not worth the plastic it cost to make them because of your inconsistent and manipulative grading.

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01-02-2009, 08:31 AM

Posted By: SteveIt would be a better/easier read if you used some paragraphs. I'll check back later. Steve

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01-02-2009, 08:41 AM

Posted By: Steve F Marshall, Firstly, some page breaks would've been thoughtful to us old guys with weak peepers. That is one Mt Everest of a paragraph! You asked about resubs. and since this is a PSA bash, here is my experience. I've cracked a few dozen SGCs, BVGs and GAIs and sent to PSA over the past 5yrs or so (No modern crap, but lower grade prewar). Almost all scored the same and just a small fraction rec'd a slight bump. Of course I carefully selected which I thought should bump. I'm not sure IK buy the notion that the graders are bumping exclusively for the big shots. I know if it were myself as the middle-income grader with the loop... If anyone was getting preferential treatment, it would be the little armpit collector receiving the 'edge'.

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01-02-2009, 08:43 AM

Posted By: leonI think Marshall got his point across though a few paragraphs and punctuation would help the reading. I have similar stories of preferential treatment too. If anyone ever gets a chance ask Roger Neufeldt ( a very nice and active dealer) about his grading experiences. They weren't much different than Marshall's. On a similar situation I just submitted a bunch of cards to SGC.....I was very disheartened with some of the grades and, though I very rarely do it, some will be going to PSA for examination (sans holder of course). There is no freaking way that one particular, valuable card, is what they said. No way. I looked at several other SGC examples in 1-2 grades higher and I am positive (as positive as I can be in looking under magnification) that this card deserves a bump up in grade. I just don't think they will bump high value cards up that are in their own holders even when they deserve it, for the most part. I know there are exceptions but that would be my summation.....best regards edited to add that since I posted another Steve (hi Steve F) chimed in but my first thought was towards WinPitcher...

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01-02-2009, 08:45 AM

Posted By: Max WederI can't speak one way or another from personal experience. However, my confidence in the grading system would be increased by any grading company that put a system in place which ensured that the grader was unaware of the identity of the person submitting the cards. My understanding is that neither PSA nor SGC has such a system in place. Max

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01-02-2009, 08:48 AM

Posted By: barrysloateI agree with the first two comments- this is really hard to read, and to follow the argument. If it is true that certain submitters get higher grades than others, and I've heard that rumor for years without any real proof, then that will be the end of the grading services.

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01-02-2009, 08:57 AM

Posted By: Rich RFrom PSA site concerning identity of the card owner: "The receiving step is one of the most crucial steps in the PSA process. This is where all packages are logged in and separated based on their service level. Once the packages have been separated, each package is opened in priority of service and the cards are counted. After verifying the service level and payment, one of the most important steps in the grading process occurs. The submissions are now assigned a generic order number, removing the identifying information from the order - thus removing the potential for bias. Finally, all of the pertinent data is entered from the PSA submission form, an email confirmation is sent out to the customer and your cards are off to the next stage."

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01-02-2009, 08:59 AM

Posted By: leonThat story really should start out "Once upon a time...." I am sure Memory Lane and Jim Crandall and other PSA HOF'ers would never get special treatment though.....

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01-02-2009, 09:11 AM

Posted By: Max WederThanks Rich. I hadn't noticed that before on PSA's website. I remember bringing this point up a couple of years ago, and if I recall correctly, no one mentioned that it was there. Perhaps it has been recently added--or maybe it has been there for a number of years. Max

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01-02-2009, 09:14 AM

Posted By: barrysloateGrading services are only as good as their reputations, which are built through accurate grading and authenticating. If their customers lose faith in that, there is nothing left and it all comes crashing down.

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01-02-2009, 09:22 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry--exactly which is why PSA would never give favoritism. Leon--you are also correct here. I don't get any favoritism and if you asked Marshall. Loucious. Merkel, Spence I am sure they will tell you the same thing. In fact I had a fairly recent conversation with one who was very upset over his grades he got on a submission.

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01-02-2009, 09:26 AM

Posted By: BobI am hardly a whale or one of the "big boys" but I do have a substantial collection, I believe. That said, I can only reiterate what I stated in a different thread, that I was told several years ago by a major auction house that they needed to send my consignment in for grading themselves because they would get higher grades than I could. I believe the guy at the auction house was being honest with me and he knew exactly what he was saying. Anyone who thinks grading is entirely objective still believes in old Saint Nick. That said, I do continue to use grading companies for some of my cards, far from all though. I like the way SGC displays the 1911 Zeenut set (in their holders) I am working on but their grades are all over the map.

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01-02-2009, 09:33 AM

Posted By: Fred CI spoke with someone that told me that they could get guaranteed 8's for me on several cards I have. This was a few years ago and the person is a dealer, a well known reputable dealer. I wont go into the details but that kind of bugged me. I didn't send the cards in for submission (I know you guys probably think I'm stupid for not taking that opportunity). In any case I still think it's a sham that PSA will only grade UP and not down. Nobody will be able to convince me that they only made initial mistakes and graded cards lower than they should have been. What a crock of crap.

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01-02-2009, 09:35 AM

Posted By: barrysloateBob- is it possible the auction houses say that to improve their chances of getting your consignment? Because if it is true that they can get higher grades, they really should keep that under their hats. That's not the kind of thing that should ever be made public.

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01-02-2009, 09:36 AM

Posted By: boxingcardmanGrading is not an objective truth, like math, as much as we'd like to think it is; it is a lot closer to art than science. I find that my personal grading scale is consistent with SGC's approach and I am rarely surprised with the results when I send them my cards. PSA has a different approach, one that baffles me on many counts, so I rarely send them any cards. Regardless, no third party grading service has the capacity to be 100% objective; mere human error associated with the judgments made in asessing a card will dictate some degree of randomness to the result. Cruise Ebay and it is easy to find overgraded and undergraded cards from every slabber. I suspect there is favoritism; I cannot prove it. I also suspect that most collectors have an overly optimistic view of their own cards' qualities. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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01-02-2009, 09:38 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellAn auction house can potentially gety better grades as it can call Joe or Dave and discuss the particular card and ask him to take a second look. There is no way that the graders at PSA know whose card they are grading or that for example that Reza knows for example that this as a Memory Lane card.

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01-02-2009, 09:44 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, This isn't true either. I had a discussion with Doug Allen about putting 120 T206 psa 8s into the Mastro December auction. I mentioned I was also talking with two other auction houses. I asked him for his selling points on why use Mastro and he never indicated he could get better grades. He said he would list them all individually and his graders could cherry pick my best 8s and send them into PSA for review. I said why not send them all in if its for free and he argued against this. Jim

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01-02-2009, 09:45 AM

Posted By: Dan KotelesIf you are a collector, you buy the card and not the holder

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01-02-2009, 09:49 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJim- anybody can ask PSA to take a second look and review cards. Why would someone need an auction house to do this?

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01-02-2009, 09:54 AM

Posted By: Jasonwow people actually tried to read that train wreck of a post? Does the thread starter hate eyes?

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01-02-2009, 09:57 AM

Posted By: SteveAm I in some type of time warp? You mean there was no corruption before PSA came into being? lol Steve

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01-02-2009, 10:06 AM

Posted By: leonNo doubt there was corruption before PSA. I have many, many old articles to prove it. PSA just added to it by changing flip numbers on cards and not disclosing it (ala Memory Lane), grading the holy grail with a number...and other neat stuff like that. For the record I still do think PSA gets it right most of the time and I don't hate the company or Joe.....If I had to pick the hobby with or without them I would still pick it WITH them. regards

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01-02-2009, 10:06 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellBarry, Exactly. Only reason is they have the stroke to more aggressively question the grade on the particular card. Also they unquestionably get a better rate. Jim

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01-02-2009, 10:07 AM

Posted By: quanBREAKING NEWS: CORRUPTION AT PSA!!!!!!!++++++++ there may be some favortism at the grading companies, but OP i think ur just mad because PSA don't agree with your grading....and seriously we're talking about billy butler and albert pujols GEM MINT 10? i think i just saw them on the mlb network, i prolly should collect them??? obviously it's easier to predict grades on VG to EX cards (unless you have MINT sl'ers) than on 8-10s where it becomes more subjective. i just sent in some 1990 OPC premier hockey...prepare for my state of the union in 2-3 weeks! stay tune... edited for another news flash: any auction house that you have to "get rude" in order to get your consignment money...probably has no pull at PSA...(lol)

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01-02-2009, 10:13 AM

Posted By: Fred CCorruption... can we first define corruption? Is grading a trimmed card (a very valuable one), right out the starting gate something that can be considered corruption? Is grading a collection of T206s with obvious trimmed cards corrupt? One definition of corrupt includes the following: - guilty of dishonest practices, as bribery; - lacking integrity; I'm not sure if grading a valuable card, that was known to be trimmed, a corrupt act based on "guilty of dishonest practices" because if it's the first time you've graded anything, then it wasn't a "practice" to begin with. Now, if we look at "lacking integrity".... that would be something that was defined as the company kept up the practice of grading trimmed cards... oh, please, turn this into a PSA sucks thread... oh, I'm sorry, I don't want to break my new years resolution of participating in PSA SUCKS threads so early in the year... but if someone else does I wont mind reading it... I'll try to refrain from participating though...

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01-02-2009, 10:26 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellFred, So because a dealer guarantees you will get 8s your read through on this is PSA is corrupt? Come on, you're smarter than that. And as far as grading up but not grading down, they have already determined that the card meets the characteristics of an 8(8.00 to 8.99). You want them to revisit what they have already decided on or provide further detail on their original grade. Jim

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01-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliIt really sucks when the grading company disagrees with you. -Al

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01-02-2009, 10:53 AM

Posted By: macboubeIs in the hands of PSA. They know and have verified with S. Hart that our cellos are real, they know they have been stored in a time capsule for 53 years. They know we are not dealers, but just a couple of fortunate souls who happened upon these cards. They know that money is not the over riding factor in our quest for high grades, etc. They know we seek to have a couple of the most incredible sets on the Planet. Our multitude of submissions of these Mint beauties have revealed the following: 1. Grading on the earlier submissions were by far the weakest. 2. The more we submitted, the seemingly higher the grades, however, in fairness to PSA, and by osmosis, we learned what to look for B4 submitting. 3. The whole system of review submissions in our minds is the most questionable of all their processes. First of all, a stringent guideline of standards should be adhered to always, making only one time original submissions necessary. There should be no need and no such thing as reviews. 4. We feel it is doubtful they resent newcomers, non-dealers, and favor the high end Set Registry holders. We are on the cusp of rattling many of those cages, and PSA knows it. They have expressed they know many of their serious high end Set Registry holders worlds were be crushed very soon, and that is the way things are. Particularly when the top set that every collector thought would never be toppled in any of our lifetimes, is about to be. One things for certain, a corrupt industry or not, it sure is a lot of fun. macboube

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01-02-2009, 11:00 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanthis sounds like "Risk"...the game of world domination.

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01-02-2009, 11:09 AM

Posted By: Steve F "A game of World domination played by a couple of idiots that can barely run their own lives." <img src="http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q252/whgnailer/ukraine.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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01-02-2009, 11:19 AM

Posted By: SteveIs owning a grading company and selling cards corruption? Steve

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01-02-2009, 11:21 AM

Posted By: SteveI still have no idea what the OP was ranting about. Well, I have some idea. Steve

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01-02-2009, 11:22 AM

Posted By: barrysloateNEWMAN (after Jerry accuses him of trying to cheat at Risk): I'm a little insulted. JERRY: You're not a little anything.

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01-02-2009, 11:49 AM

Posted By: Anthony S.I got through the entire paragraph. I think "suedo" was a Phil Collins song. I've harbored similar thoughts for years, but I don't collect high-grade, so such shenanigans don't effect me. Soft corners help me sleep at night. Just like bourbon.

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01-02-2009, 12:06 PM

Posted By: Anonymousi kind if agree with the fellow, but i can't prove it. so i'll just leave it alone

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01-02-2009, 12:54 PM

Posted By: leonI am not sure who your grading comment was directed at but (no worries, it's all in fun debate)....I do think SGC is one of the most consistent graders, along with BVG, in the business. I consider some folks at both companies as friends and both do a good job. All that being said how would you feel about the grade of this D303? (tiny spot of paper loss on back and no creases or wrinkles) <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1230929553.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-02-2009, 01:03 PM

Posted By: BobI will tell you it wasn't Mastro that told me that they could get better grades for their cards than I could. Dan I agree 100% but when it comes time to sell them, especially a complete set, you would be surprised (or maybe not) how much more money you can get for your cards when they, or at least the "big cards" in the set are graded. tbob

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01-02-2009, 01:05 PM

Posted By: BobLeon- You are not alone old buddy. I have a couple of gorgeous E94s with no wrinkles or creases and a very, very tiny paper loss on the back, like yours, and they ended up as 10s. It's just hard to figure out. I know SGC hates paper loss and enamel loss on the front borders of cards but giving them 10s is something I can't stomach when I see other 10s that are mangled. tbob

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01-02-2009, 01:12 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI'm sure every dealer has told potential customers they can get better grades than they could--to attach any meaning to the comment is silly.

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01-02-2009, 01:48 PM

Posted By: Scott Mt. JoyJust from my own experience of sending in a number of bulk subs to both PSA and SGC. IMO- SGC is much more consistent overall and I have crossed over 300 PSA cards in my collection this year for this reason (and much better looking slabs). The one down side is they hammer paper loss (how Leons card is not a 40 or 50 is beyond me, I have a couple that fall into the same boat, can drive you crazy). I feel like I get more of a personal touch with their service and have spoken to Michael many times and always seems like they care. PSA for me has a lot more to do with the grader you get for that sub, sometimes you do great and other times I have been in disbelief over my grades. I had a sub where I felt nearly all of 100 cards were way off, I sent the 5 biggest ones back in (cracked out) and sure enough they got a 1-2 grade bump as I suspected. This is why PSA has lost a lot of my business. I also hate the qualifiers, they need to do away with them. Calling PSA is a nightmare and I just feel like they are a company with weak customer support (unless you are a prefered customer, auction house, whale, etc). The upside to PSA is if your selling cards in a contested registry you can make serious money on them (sometimes stupid money).

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01-02-2009, 01:50 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliLeon: My last post was directed at the original poster, who's post seems, to me, to contain at least some degree of sour grapes. That said, without having your card in hand, I'd give it a low grade but not a 10. It is miscut, with poor registration and a chipped lower left corner. There is paper loss on the back. I'm one of those people that thinks that paper loss - even on the back - even on a blank-backed card - should be dealt with harshly. Paper loss is paper loss, IMO. If I bought a card that was a 50 and it had paper loss on the back, I would be very unhappy. That said, this is also one of those examples where the card is much, much nicer than the technical grade, and definitely one I'd be proud to have in my collection. If the card was mine, I'd bring it with me to the National and ask why it as a 10. Perhaps they'd point out something I didn't see, and perhaps they'd say they made a mistake and it should be a 30, which is what it looks like to me. Unlike a lot of people here, I'm willing to accept a certain degree of variance from a grading company. There are human beings grading the cards. They have bad days, they get headaches, they write down a wrong number, they misjudge things, they miss something someone else might have seen, they see something someone else might have missed, they misread a number, they judge something one way on Monday and ever-so-slightly differently on Tuesday. All in all, though, they do a fantastic job with an incredibly mundane, repetitive task. We should all do so well at our own repetitive tasks. -Al

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01-02-2009, 02:07 PM

Posted By: Tony AndreaLeon , Just my opinion but I'd almost bet if you re-submitted that card today you would get at least a 1/2 point bump in grade (20), and more than likely a full bump in grade (30). The longer bar code and gold stickered back is an older Sgc graded card. They have softened up their criteria quite a bit on paper loss since, if the loss of paper is as minimal as this. No way it gets a 40 though with that paper pull on the back. Tony A. ps - Beautiful card none the less.....

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01-02-2009, 02:15 PM

Posted By: Fred CJim, The definition of corrupt includes "lack of integrity". If definitions can be interpreted like cards (in grading) then I would guess that a lot of people would believe that PSA is corrupt. A dealer telling me he could guarantee 8's doesn't prove PSA is corrput, but it sure didn't give me the feeling that "subjectivity" is the only ingredient/criteria in grading. It might even go towards confirming what the initial post was trying to point out.

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01-02-2009, 02:17 PM

Posted By: WesleyIf the moderator of the Net54 cannot get the benefit of the doubt, what hope is there for the rest of us? Leon's D303 should be at least SGC 30 and no one (aside from Al) would complain if the card was in a SGC 40 holder.

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01-02-2009, 02:58 PM

Posted By: leonCool....I do think we can have a good debate. Here are a few more points. 1. I beg to differ about this being miscut. If it's miscut then I wish all of my cards were. It's not 50/50 but I doubt it would get an MC qualifier. 2. If you look at his name on the obverse you will see it's not perfectly regsitered in the scan. In real life it is. If you can sort of extrapolate that degree of "fuzziness" and take it out of the equation, you would see this card has very nice registration. It's hard to tell on the scan. I don't know how Tony An. does it (hi Tony) but he gets the best darn scans I have ever seen <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">.... 3. The chip on the lower corner probably ranges all the way up to a 40 in critiquing, but if not that, then definitely within a 30's range, imo. I think I could show some 40's, pretty easily, that have this much corner wear. Here's another question. This card could very well get a bump up in grade if resubmitted. If this were a 15k card would I have the same chance of getting it bumped up? take care and best regards (I still consider the SGC guys friends and great graders, btw)

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01-02-2009, 03:13 PM

Posted By: Steve Nevermind. Steve

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01-02-2009, 03:14 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliLeon: "Miscut" is probably not the right word for it, but it's definitely cut with a tilt. Like I said, I wouldn't grade it a 10. I'd probably grade it a 30. Given that you're saying that the lower-left corner would bring it to a 40, I would say that the paper loss on the back (in one area it takes away some of the writing, in another area it removes a small piece of ink) would bring it down to a 30. I'd like to think that any grading company would bump a deserving card regardless of the grade. Although I don't have any $15K cards, I do have experience getting bumps that increased a card's value significantly - here's one that was once a 7. (Edited to add: Yes, Steve, that's what I was referring to about the registration - the actual print registration is off, which is something that SGC factors into the grade). <img src="http://www.swingbattaswing.com/page10/page4/files/page4-1018-full.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> -Al

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01-02-2009, 03:17 PM

Posted By: SteveAl I deleted what I said, I did not want to start anything. Steve

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01-02-2009, 03:19 PM

Posted By: Frank Wakefieldjust to unofftopic this thread so it can return to its genesis... I think Marshall is generally correct. It may well matter a bit as to who submits a card as to what grade it would get.

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01-02-2009, 03:23 PM

Posted By: leonAl- that is a great card. From the scan it definiitely deserves an 88. Wowser!! I think a 30 is warranted too but the card is in my collection so it's not a big deal. I was just mentioning it in the context of this thread and some other things going on. Steve- I understand it's not the printing of the name that is in question pertaining to the registration being spoken about. I only mentioned it because the lettering, in real life, has perfect registration. In the scan it doesn't...so that is the degree of error, that needs to be taken into account, on the entire card. It's that much better in real life. I do see the ink going across the border. My experience is they don't take off a lot for that on ex and below cards, depending on severity.....(re: many E90-1 Young- Boston's with hash marks on the front bottom and other off registration series of cards)

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01-02-2009, 03:26 PM

Posted By: SteveI do see the ink going across the border. Leon, that is what in the printing industry they call 'registration' My comment has nothing to do with how SGC grades such flaws I was simply thinking aloud I guess. Edited to add: The name IMO in the scan does not have a registration problem. 10 years ago I was great friends with a stripper (a printing job) and he explained how he did his job and when he messed up the registration of the item he was working on would suffer. In any event it is a nice card. Steve

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01-02-2009, 04:37 PM

Posted By: E, DanielIf you think it's a 10, crack it out and call it one. Just don't insist I have to believe it's gem mint or that anyone else should either. If you want someone else's opinion and are going to buy into the whole grading shebang (which I happen to love on many levels), then quit bitching about it and live with the inconsistent nature of the beast. AND, if you've picked PSA as your lover, then please just kindly accept she's got awful pretty skirts but can't f@%k worth a lick. Some one else may want her from afar, but wait till they have to live with her. As they say on SNL, 'Seriously'!!!!

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01-02-2009, 04:43 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanwow...nice analogy...kids...hold your ears? are you telling me that this...er these beauties are really PSA in disguise? <img src="http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/ullmandds/cleavage.png" alt="[linked image]">

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01-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Posted By: E, DanielNow thems some ear muffs. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-02-2009, 05:08 PM

Posted By: barrysloatePeter- do those breasts have a face?

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01-02-2009, 05:11 PM

Posted By: peter ullmani'd assume so...unfortunately they're not mine. This is wikipedia's definition of cleavage...and it's a good one!

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01-02-2009, 07:35 PM

Posted By: BobI'm sure every dealer has told potential customers they can get better grades than they could--to attach any meaning to the comment is silly. Jim C.>> Huh? Jim, I'm not sure if this is a reference to my description of an auction house employee telling me they could get better grades if they submitted the cards than if I submitted them myself. If it is, it certainly is NOT silly to attach meaning to this as I happen to live in the real world where things like this happen all the time. I'm just curious, do you think that a guy who submits thousands and thousands of cards to a particular grading company gets the same "breaks" and "considerations" and "benefits of a doubt" that Moe Bandy from Sugarleaf, Oklahoma, who sends in 8 cards a year, does?

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01-02-2009, 07:54 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI don't believe I get any special breaks...period. I tell people that want me to submit for them no as it will not make a difference. An auction house employee would not get better grades because the grader knew they were his cards. He would get them only if he could call Joe and ask for another review and point out why he thought they should be a higher grade.

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01-02-2009, 08:50 PM

Posted By: Fred CJim, Please don't make me pull the "Harris Card" out for this debate. Yes, I always go back to that because it is a very legitimate case of PSA blatantly providing higher grades to a collection of cards. Please don't try and write that there were no trimmed cards in the bunch or that a "5" or "6" was given to a card with a crease because without the crease the card would have been a "9" or "10". "I'm sure every dealer has told potential customers they can get better grades than they could--to attach any meaning to the comment is silly. Silly? Please define silly. In this case, I think you may be a little misguided in your opinion of PSA, preferential treatment and "the buddy network". I'm not trying to get your goat or piss you off but we are all entitled to our opinions, and this is one of the few that my wife didn't give me.

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01-02-2009, 09:30 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI apologize for the structure of my post to all. In response to Quan i submitted a 2001 Bowman Chrome rookie auto and when it got slabbed a 9 it brought over 4000 back in the day. In response to the clown from PSA or whoever he works for you can throw out the recieving goods theory at PSA and that get submitted without any name. Are you freaking serious that i am gonna buy that load of H O R S E S H I T? I spoke to Joe and he said he would personally look at the cards and deliver them to the grader. What you have to realize is that i spoke to Joe literally for about 20 minutes as to why i did not want my cards submitted by a auction house and that all i wanted is a fair shake. I find it odd that now my cards are graded and shipped and the bum will not get on the phone. In response to the auction house not having pull with my T-206's let's get real here. The cards sold for over 36,000 dollars and trust me that particular auction house has pull wherever it goes. I just do not want to deal with any middle man and i wanted to grade the rest of my cards and sell them myself without the auction house charging a 20% buyer premium and a 10% selling premiuim. Last but not least i have heard every excuse as to why cards grade the way they do. Here are the excuses 1.Different graders 2.Busy Card show deadline has to be met 3.Dealers send in huge amounts of cards so grades go their way 4.Depends on the pop report and value of the card and who the client is who owns the big card. ARE YOU #$%ING KIDDING ME? THIS IS NOT FINDING A CURE FOR CANCER IT IS SIMPLY GRADING A LITTLE RECTANGULAR PIECE OF CARDBOARD AND DEFINING THE PARAMETERS OF A GRADE IS SIMPLE! If Bernie Madoff can swindle 50 billion then trust me these grading companies can do whatever they want behind closed doors. I am gonna crack the Beauties out and throw the holders in the trash. I'll bide my time and resubmit them properly to get the right grades but with a different company. What should be reported to the attorney general of Ca is the PSA Set Registry buy back system and the fact that they can protect high end cards in a registry. Let's turn the heat up on Pro Scam Alliance and see how they like it.

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01-02-2009, 09:39 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJim...bro you are clueless. I don't know what rock you crawled out from under but i do know 100% how the grading game is played. I sat at grading booths from 2002 to 2005 in between tournaments and watched all the moves go down between super high end dealers and the companies. I'm talking about 1000 to 100,000 dollar cards not nickel and dime cards. Do you have any idea what a huge break it is in certain cards to get a PSA 9 instead of a 8? Let's take a T-206 Eddie Plank for example. In a PSA 7 holder SMR on the card is 98,000 and in a PSA 8 holder it is 275,000 so do you understand the game now and the seriousness of money at stake when you submit a card? This is not shuffleboard in South Beach pal but the high ticket world of old and rare baseball cards.

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01-02-2009, 09:40 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldPro Scam Alliance... I like that!

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01-03-2009, 03:08 AM

Posted By: AnonymousFred, Of course--everyone makes mistakes--not saying they don't make mistakes. Ask your wife about this. My wife tells me I do frequently <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Marshall, What rock did I climb from under? I am one of seven collectors in the HOF and I have roughly 25,000 vintage/semi-vintage cards. I know every major vintage dealer personally and talk to many people in the hobby frequently. Post some scans. Prove that your cards are undergraded. Jim

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01-03-2009, 05:28 AM

Posted By: Scott Dangoare you shoelessjoejackson on ebay? interesting how these types of threads never start on PSA Boards....

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01-03-2009, 06:03 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI am not shoeless joe jackson on e-bay. I do really wish i could post the cards but i cannot get the pics small enough to put them on here. I don't have to prove anything about the cards because if you know anything about American Beauties they were rough cut so most of the time i have seen 7 and 8's with a little fraying on the edge. Another thing about the beauties is that there is nothing on the back, no centering issues or ink dots because of the blank back. The cards were cello pack pulled so enough said.

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01-03-2009, 07:28 AM

Posted By: leonIf you send me scans I will post them for you.....take care

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01-03-2009, 07:31 AM

Posted By: John J. GrilloMarshall, I too, would appreciate it if you would post the scans..it is really not that difficult to do, especially considering the argument being made here. My vintage collection has varied over the years (from T206s, then selling em' and then vintage boxing, and selling em', etc, etc, etc). I have submitted to PSA and SGC since the 90's. My collection is now modern junk (a term so eloquently stated here on this board) and I submit only about 10 cards a year now to BGS. Is there widespread or systematic corruption in TPG...I doubt it. Be wary of what certain representatives of auction houses say about being able to get high grades. In my opinion, it is merely a ploy for them to get your business. Has collusion between a TPG employee and submitter occurred here and there...probably yes. We have seen enough "Red Flags" over the years to realize there are "leaks" in the system. Although I think the original post is somewhat hyperbole, a good example is provided in regards to the T206 Plank card. The most important aspect of TPG for me is if the graders got MY cards graded right! For the most part, PSA, SGC, and BGS have been very good at grading my cards. I am not the type of guy to worry or be jealous about what grades the "other guy" is receiving, just as long as my cards are graded accurately. I guess my attitude stems from not collecting cards from an investment standpoint. I am a very disciplined and successful person in all aspects of my life, with the exception of collecting cards--I am a total wreck. I buy high and sell low...but it is an outlet for me, a passion, and a hobby.

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01-03-2009, 09:12 AM

Posted By: Anonymous"if you've picked PSA as your lover, then please just kindly accept she's got awful pretty skirts but can't f@%k worth a lick." --Lady (hi Joann) and Gentlemen, I think we have a very strong candidate for the line of the year for 2009. One benign explanation for an auctioneer having ability to get higher grades is that some of them employ ex-TPG graders who presumably know how the particular TPG trains its graders and therefore presumably know what characteristics to look for in cards to resubmit. Especially in this era of bumps at PSA, that is a perfectly legitimate claim for an auctioneer to make. It is also 100% correct that none of the TPGs are 100% correct. And the mistakes go in various directions, not just one or the other. PSA has made some high profile blunders, like grading a fake Ruth rookie. SGC did too; ask Keith Olbermann about his fake Joe Doyle. They also routinely make less expensive and interesting mistakes, usually in undergrading a given card. I purchased two GAI 6 1954 Bowman cards that were unbelievably nice any way I looked at them,, cracked them out, marveled over the quality of the cards, and resubmitted to SGC. They are now rightfully in SGC 88 holders. I bought a PSA 2 1954 Bowman, cracked it out and it is beautiful-at least a 6-just a FUBARed grade. Similarly, I've had cards rejected one month and accepted as high grade the next by both PSA and SGC. I've cracked other obviously misgraded cards and gotten big (2-3 grade) bumps. And I am small potatoes in terms of submittals to any service, so there's no preference there. Marshall, grading isn't objective science, it is subjective. Leon's card is a good example. I see it and think vg-ex immediately. The paper loss on the back drops it to a 30 for me. A 10 is ridiculous and I think if Leon ran it by SGC again they'd either agree or explain why. I've done that and while I've not been happy with the result at times I've always been satisfied with the explanation. I can't say much for PSA; at least not much good. Their positions on many things are about as self-serving as a gas station and as illogical as Dr. McCoy (Damnit, Jim!). I've been very critical of them here, roasted them in articles I've written for magazines, and blasted them on my web site for the intense stupidity of certain decisions they made (www.americasgreatboxingcards.com--look for the My Soapbox page). If there was favoritism and if anyone should be screwed on submittals it is me but I recently submitted a batch of cards to PSA for reconsideration. Two of twelve bumped up half a grade, and they were the most valuable cards of the group. The others had explanatory post-its attached and while I happen to think that their methodology is incorrect on certain issues, I understand the explanations. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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01-03-2009, 11:28 AM

Posted By: leonBoxingcardman....the only reason PSA is maybe giving you some fair grades now is because they are like NFL Ref's and now it is just a make up call. I think the point most folks are missing from the post is that these are cello pack pulled HELLLOOOO. In most old vintage cards there are slight bumps or dings in corners yet the corners remain sharp, also there could be slight color toning and ink runs which can make the difference between a card grading a 5 or a 7. I am not talking about cards that are 5 or 7's, what we are talking about is razor sharp clean cello pack pulled cards with the most vibrant colors. The whole thing really is a joke and i know what happened and i'm over it. Sorry for the emotional outburst to all on the board and it is a shame these cards will not be offered to the set registry collectors who would love to own them. Here is my last thought on the subject and i am sure Leon is going to throw a 15 yard flag roughing the company call on me. F *** Y O U Pro Scam Alliance! edited one word for language (leon)

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01-03-2009, 11:31 AM

Posted By: Fred C15 yard penalty, personal foul, roughing the grader... You know, if I were the ref, I'd just give you the game for that call...

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01-03-2009, 11:33 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliThe idea that just because cards are pulled directly from cello packs they should grade high is preposterous. You can buy a pack of cards that were printed LAST WEEK and find 6s and 7s in the pack. Color and surface are not the only attributes of a card; corners, centering, toning, print registration, edges, all play a part. Pulling 50-year-old cards out of a cello pack is an unbelievable gamble; you're just as likely to get 4s as you are to get 7s, and you're almost guaranteed not to get 9s and 10s. -Al

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01-03-2009, 11:51 AM

Posted By: dennisanger management. why do business with the devil?

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01-03-2009, 11:51 AM

Posted By: Fred CI agree with Al. It is a huge gamble to open old packs (cello or wax). You can open a brand new pack of cards from this year or a couple of years ago and there is no guarantee that the centering is perfect and that the ink isn't smudged in some way. I would venture to guess that most of the cards would be nice but there are always things that may not allow for a higher grade. I'd like to see a few scans of these cards, that would be the tell all. People could actually chime in with their opinions if we could see exactly what your talking about.

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01-03-2009, 12:14 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI cannot get the scans on the site or i would post the cards. To address the last two posts please tell me something i do not already know. Of course when you look at cello packs not all the cards are gonna come out clean and more likely than not the cards may be compressed together from time and damage is done from pulling them from one another. Why i opened the cards is very simple. One pack was detached from the board and the other 11 packs remained on the board. I posted the board and attached packs for sale in the non-sports section. A gentleman who i will not name sent me a e-mail and stated it could have been the oldest find of a non-sports card item and that he would offer five figures for the item, by the time i got the e-mail it was to late because i had spoken to a friend of mine who stated the Beauties in general are a tough card and near impossible to find in Mint condition and if i could get the first ever found 9's and 10's the premium would be grand. Check the pop report and you will see it is a tough series. I noticed there was 6 cards in a pack and determined that the middle four cards were more than likely in mint to nr-mnt condition. I opened the detached pack and two of the middle cards were spot on- Perfect centering, razor corners, no jagged edges, and the ink looked like the day it came off the press. From that point i started to crack the packs, of course there were miscuts, off centered cards, corner dings and so forth in the 62 cards that i opened. What also happened in the 62 cards i opened is that about 20 of the 48 middle cards in the packs were dead on. These are the cards i am upset about with how they got graded. I have never seen such clean cards when it comes to vintage. I could care less about the 24 cards that were on the top and bottom and of course i expected them to grade between 5 and 7.

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01-03-2009, 12:26 PM

Posted By: Fred CMarshall, Email the scans/pictures to me, I'll post them for you. Using the "insert object" option only allows you to post 128Kb images.

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01-03-2009, 12:54 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanOk Fred...i am sending you the scans of some of the cards that a gentleman who i will not mention wanted to see because he was interested in a lesser grade set. Also there is a pic of the entire board with the cello packs attached that no one believe i had found except for one dealer who e-mailed me. Keep doubting what i say baseball card world because i am 1/9 at aquaduct to produce the goods. I think some of these cards are 9's and when my cards get back from Pro Scam Alliance i will post the rest of the pics. By the way Lay the 1 point because Arizona walks over the Falcons. Bring the noise and yes i love to @#$ing ROCK!

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01-03-2009, 01:27 PM

Posted By: Fred CThe pictures were all > 128K so he wasn't able to upload them via the "insert object" link. I reduced the file size to accommodate the 128K limit. EDITED TO ADD: I SURE WISH THERE WERE A FEW T206 CARDS IN THE LOT: Here are some notes from Marshall: "these are not the best cards that were in the group of 62" "please post that these were not the finest examples" "will provide the pics when i recieve the cards back from Pro Scam Alliance" One noticeable difference between cards is that card 7 has more generous borders than the other cards. Do all of the cards measure exactly (within 1/64") the same? Marshall, the pictures are numbered 1-7 below. Please feel free to comment on the pics! 1 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017483.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> 2 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017516.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> 3 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017562.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> 4 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017597.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> 5 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017659.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> 6 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017686.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> 7 - <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231017714.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-03-2009, 01:51 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanPlease understand that these cards were the only cards allowed to be produced in the year of 1944 and the government allowed Gum Inc to produce them only because of the thought the Beauties would give moral to the country and the GI's abroad. The cards were crudely cut just as T-206 baseball cards and i cannot tell you how many PSA 8's that i have seen that are much more off center than some of these with very rough edges which these do not have. The cards measure correctly and the corners are razor sharp. My scanner is not the best so there is a slight glare to some of the corners and to the total appearance of the cards. I showed the cards to two major players before sending them in and they wish to remain silent but having said that both are in shock at the atrocity of grading providing by Pro Scam Alliance. They also are not sending cards into PSA right now because of the auction house scandals possibly being tied into grade bumping and favortism towards large volume submitters. Go Cardinals lay the point.

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01-03-2009, 01:57 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanFred...thanks so much for your help. Greatly appreciated.

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01-03-2009, 02:08 PM

Posted By: David MI bought the 3rd best set that Marshall sold over on the non-sport side. And even in the 3rd best, there are several cards that are at least 8's and could be bumped higher depending on the grader. Several of the cards I got were off center, or had some dings, but for the most part, all of these cards have razor sharp corners. If there weren't any 9's or 10's in what Marshall submitted in the two best sets, chances are they don't exist. These cards just don't exist in better condition.

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01-03-2009, 02:34 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI did not want to use your name David because i do respect privacy on all matters. By the way i will be sending you the board and cello packs as promised on Tuesday when i get home. The cards do exist in 9's and 10's and i have seen the cards in holders and they are no better than my cards. Trust me my cards were undergraded on purpose either to protect the #1 set on the PSA registry or because i am not a well known dealer or auction house. I joined Pro Scam Alliance this year and have never submitted cards via the mail route. Realize the company does not know me and has no idea the amount of cards i own outside of my initial conversation with ol Suedo Joe. It is probably the worst 179.00 i have ever spent outside of the horrible lap dance i recieved last night from one of my American Beauties that had a little to much to drink (-: I knew i should have taken the cards to Mike Baker because he still is the best and most reliable grader in the game. I also was tempted to pay a visit to the folks at SGC but after this i'll just relax and forget about these grading companies because they have to much power and no consistent method or explanation for their actions.

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01-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliAmerican Beauties are awesome cards and I'm sorry they didn't grade out as high as you had hoped they would. That said, this whole episode is a shame. As I understand it, you tore up a pretty nice display piece in hopes that you could take advantage of PSA's pop reports and get some 10s that would have sold for a ton of money. When the cards didn't grade out the way you had hoped, you got on a public message board, bashed PSA and called them crooked. Yet if you had gotten 10s instead of whatever you got, you would have been perfectly happy to play PSA's game and take advantage of the registry folks who would pay a premium for 10s. So basically, if the system had worked in your favor, everything would have been fine. Because it didn't, PSA is crooked. As far as I can see, the only loser here is the beautiful display piece that got torn up over this. -Al

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01-03-2009, 04:36 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanWell let's first start by saying that i gave Arizona as the bet of the day and they are bringing the noise. In regards to your comments Al you are misinformed or you did not get past high school. If you look at my previous post i stated how i went about selling the Beauties but now i will clear this matter up and repost I bought the board with the packs attached and the first thing i wanted to do was offer the package to a true collector. I posted on the main message board here and also in the non-sports section. There was no response on the board and not many people seemed concerned at all about the package. I few days went by and during those days i contacted a person who understands cards very well and he operates a auction house and said that since there were no rookie cards or special cards in the set outside of "Thar she Blows" that what i should do is open one pack and that if the cards were clean then crack them open because it would give all the hobby set builders a chance to try and grab some of the finest graded examples for their collections. I then opened the e-mail from a dealer whom i suspect you are getting your info from and he was the one with the offer but i had already opened the cards. He is wrong for not stating that i gave every oppurtunity for folks to buy the board with the packs attached. Also I have never said at any point in time that i am a collector. Pro Scam Alliance would not be giving me anything because the cards are what they are. The cleanest examples ever found and all they had to do was be graded fairly. I only used Pro Scam because they have a set registry and most all old school collectors want the cards in their holders. I am not the type to look for handouts boss because if you check the website partner i'm chilling beside Donald being myself and i expect nothing ever be given to me.

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01-03-2009, 05:01 PM

Posted By: JoannHey Marshall B3? Could you do us all a favor and not accuse Al, who is a long-time member and contributor here besides being obviously intelligent, of not graduating from high-school? Between you with your non-baseball grading complaints and MacBoob with his non-baseball grading complaints, I'm starting to have trouble telling one off-topic, newbie whiner from another. Joann

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01-03-2009, 05:06 PM

Posted By: CyI am quite tired of this tirade. Marshall, let me give you the advice that I gave my brother when he wasn't happy with his doctor's recommendation. I told him, 'Either trust the doctor's advice and do what he says, or get a new doctor. There is no middle ground here." Maybe you should do the same. If you don't trust PSA, go elsewhere, and strike this last group that was graded up on experience. However, if you do decide to send in more cards to PSA, then accept whatever comes out and don't whine if they don't come back exactly as you wanted. It's as simple as that. Cy

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01-03-2009, 07:16 PM

Posted By: SteveWell that was interesting. Steve

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01-03-2009, 07:37 PM

Posted By: leonFirst of all I would like to say that SGC is still my grader of choice right now. It's my auction company's grader of choice too. That being said I feel they grade too hard sometimes (maybe sour grapes?). The card I was having an issue with, concerning their grading, has been sold ....and it was for the grade above the technical grade...in value, which is what it should have been imo......I agree with the masses that if you don't like how a grading company grades you shouldn't use them. To complain a whole lot and still use that grading company seems somewhat disingenuous....though I do understand the registry = money-thing..... One other thing for Marshall- You said old school collectors prefer the PSA registry. In my experience old school collectors (25 yrs or more) aren't into the whole grading thing.....(unless selling, sometimes)......happy collecting

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01-03-2009, 08:00 PM

Posted By: E, DanielWhen you meet a troll you just know it straight away. This guy Marshall is a flat out idiot troll. Thus far he has insulted a host of people who all have much greater knowledge of the hobby than he will ever attain. They are helpful and genuine people who don't deserve that kind of treatment. My vote is to give him the long term boot. Daniel Ps. I have owned 44' American Beauties before, just one currently as a type, and the ones this shnook has shown us are only mediocre-nice for the issue. They are hardly such a condition sensitive issue as has been suggested.

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01-03-2009, 09:18 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI found the last couple of posts hilarious and here is my reply. My whole point in the post to begin with is that Pro Scam Alliance is plays favorites and that card grading as a whole needs to be cleaned up. In regards to the comment about the man's education it is just a jab so if you cannot stand the heat get off the board doll and head back to the minors. My response to Daniel is the guy probably listens to the Bee Gees and still has a comb in his back pocket, if i have no knowledge then how do i own these cards? Hmmmmm how can i buy collections without knowledge? Last but not least how did my cards blow out for 38 large at auction? The funny part is my best cards are just chillin in the vault and thank god i sent in the Beauties instead of some other cards but i am way to sharp a cat to get skinned by a bunch of kittens. Good day and remember to turn it up BRING THE NOISE.

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01-03-2009, 09:22 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanLeon you are correct in your statement and what i should have said is that the whales in the game prefer PSA graded cards so they can compete in owning a registered card or registering it once they buy it. Case in point T-205 gold border Cy Young PSA 8.5-final auction price around 125,000. If the card were in any other holder it does not bring that price.

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01-04-2009, 09:36 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliLet me get this straight. You come on the board, ostensibly for the first time ever, whining about your grades, quoting Public Enemy lyrics and calling people "bro." Then you start using nasty language, question my intelligence, call one of the most respected people here "doll," and suggest she "get off the board"? Does that about sum it up? You have zero credibility, friend. ZERO. You come from nowhere, complaining about your grades, don't even have the sense to make a decent-looking scan, and then start insulting people who disagree with you or question your approach? Please. Contribute something here. Share some knowledge instead of spreading around your sour grapes. Give us some inkling as to why we would think you have ANY ability to grade cards - and bragging about their value doesn't count. I suspect you can't, but that's okay. You bought a very cool, historically important piece. You got the idea that you could make a bunch of money by ripping the packs and taking advantage of the registry folks by selling them high-grade, low pop cards. Evidently the graders at PSA disagreed with your assessment of the cards, which wrecked your big money-making plan, so you came on the public message board and started a rambling, brainless, paragraph-free thread in hopes of accomplishing, well, nobody knows what. Most of the people here do not choose PSA as their grader of choice. If you want to make some waves, go over to the PSA message boards and start a thread there. Or, better yet, put your money where your mouth is and send the cards to a different grading company. I recommend Global. As you have stated that Mike Baker is the best grader in the business, that's where you should send your cards so that they can realize their maximum value. And the fact that Daniel listens to the Bee Gees and carries a comb in his back pocket does not impact his knowledge of the hobby. -Al

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01-04-2009, 11:49 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanAl or should i say Al Bundy. The reason i made the remark about your not getting past high school is simple, you made several silly remarks that made no sense and it was obvious you did not even bother to read earlier posts. Second the last time i checked you do not own the board and i will talk and act however i please because this is not Russia is it Danny? Most of you old birds on here are way to dramatic and highly sensitive. I just produced some of the finest T-206's ever found and sent them to auction, in one case the card is actually the highest ever found in a certain Southern League player. I'm not whining about grades at all, my complaint is the system in which the cards are graded and the inconsistent manipulative grades that are given out due to who submits the cards. I call all the gals doll just like Ruth called everyone kid so lighten up and take a viagra and perhaps you may actually enjoy life instead of acting like John MCcain Jr. I don't need any lessons when it comes to cards and whoever you got your info from in regards to what my intentions were with the package is wrong so stop playing God. Also i have posted on this board several times before and ahhhhh come to think Harvard grad oh highly educated Yoda like being the last time i checked i posted the American Beauties months ago on the main board and also on the non-sports board. I have also bought several T-206 and vintage cards from the buy sell section. Remember the Eagles are lock lay the 3 and BRING THE NOISE.

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01-04-2009, 11:51 AM

Posted By: Anthony S.unsubscribe.

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01-04-2009, 11:53 AM

Posted By: leonLessons in Diplomacy- $5ea or 3 for $10......

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01-04-2009, 12:05 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI'm just playing around Al so don't things so personal. Man bro don't ever take up golf because the lads on tour would have you crying in seconds. If you look back at your original post their were several assumptions and negative statements along with subtle mental jabs hence my remarks.

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01-04-2009, 12:27 PM

Posted By: Mark HoltYawn

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01-04-2009, 12:32 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI'm enjoying this thread for it's EXTREMENESS TO THE MAXX!!!!!!!1

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01-04-2009, 12:40 PM

Posted By: Todd SchultzAl,this MB3 collector extraordinaire has posted here before-- he chimed in repeatedly about his 50 tintypes and the Billy Gilliam debacle of last August: <a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218508197/last-1218647088/Friendly+reminder+to+Leon+and+co" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218508197/last-1218647088/Friendly+reminder+to+Leon+and+co</a> Yessir, Al, I'm amazed you don't remember the outstanding and informative posts from Mr. Livin Large himself. I guess you're too much the dolt if your life wasn't touched by the muses of this part Tiger Woods, part James Bond and part Lionel Carter, all rolled into one, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other real men of genius. So just sit back and enjoy the ride, the Alpha Dog himself is gonna pull the sled. (To borrow one of his favorite expressions "RMFLAO".)

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01-04-2009, 12:45 PM

Posted By: quanbaseball card collecting as a whole is rather bland, i'm glad someone is thinking outside the box and bringing the EXTREME into the hobby. let's hope MB3 will make the same impact here as he's done in music and golf.

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01-04-2009, 12:47 PM

Posted By: jdrumBRING THE NOISE!

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01-04-2009, 12:57 PM

Posted By: leonmore cowbell.... <embed src="http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/1738696/snl_cowbell.swf" width="400" height="345" wmode="transparent" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1738696/snl_cowbell/">SNL Cowbell</a> - <a href="http://www.metacafe.com/">The top video clips of the week are here</a>

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01-04-2009, 01:02 PM

Posted By: JoannOh Lordy. hahahaha. You guys are individually and collectively hilarious. Joann

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01-04-2009, 01:41 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAl, is it possible that you didn't complete high school AND are completely misinformed? These are not mutually exclusive events, right? And I would be willing to bet (my tip of the day) that Daniel, while he may listen to the Bee Gees, does not carry a comb in his back pocket. Seriously, you can bring the noise on that one. Or whatever that means. I'm sorry but I'm just enjoying this thread way too much. Carry on. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-04-2009, 01:49 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliWait. This is the golf dude? Oh, okay. I get it. I'm gonna go be an old bird and pop some viagra. A guy like me can't hang with someone who's opened for Marilyn Manson. Edited to add: It is important to note that even us old birds know how to post a decent scan. I guess they don't teach computers to the young'uns anymore. -Al

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01-04-2009, 02:03 PM

Posted By: Steve FOne word, <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231106552.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-04-2009, 02:04 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Frisbee. Golf. Dude. <img src="http://www.skilasvegas.com/masterplan/master_development_plan/mdp_phase_1/frisbee_golf3.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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01-04-2009, 02:13 PM

Posted By: Jim VBBad News - The whole PGA Tour thing might not be working out. (I can't wait to hear what "PGA" really stands for and how this is someone else's fault.) Good News - In less than 10 years the Senior PGA Tour awaits! (Fuzzy and Chi-Chi are tingling in anticipation!)

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01-04-2009, 02:21 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Back-to-back Lajoie avatars. If Lichtman would hurry up and post his P.O.S. PC, I think we all split the jackpot.

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01-04-2009, 02:50 PM

Posted By: E, DanielBeing born in Melbourne Australia in the Spring of 68', my first musical impressions regrettably included plenty of how can you mend a broken heartnight......fortunately better times were ahead with jive talkin and nights on broadway. The Bee Gees in fact spent a considerable portion of their growing years in Brisbane Australia and we were in turn good enough to pass them on to the rest of the world. I'll take your thanks and heavy pipe bashings with equal understanding <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">. When it comes to soft rock I was more of a Little River Band man myself, if we must reveal our less machismo musical roots. They really could write some better than decent lyrics, hitting the scene in my home town of Melbourne in the mid 70's. My favourite Aussie bands growing up were in fact Acka Dacka (or AC/DC), Sherbet, Skyhooks, Cold Chisel, Crowded House and INXS. Dad used to use a comb but he left when I was seven and I stopped styling my hair after his not long after. Never used a comb again. Daniel

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01-04-2009, 02:54 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaWhither Midnight Oil? <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10BbpGKLXqk" target="_new">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10BbpGKLXqk</a>

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01-04-2009, 02:55 PM

Posted By: DougFor some reason this comes to mind... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXsq7C-dWS8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXsq7C-dWS8> </a>

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01-04-2009, 03:10 PM

Posted By: E, DanielThe 'Oils' were absolutely rocking to see live Dan, and I enjoy some of their songs here and there....but their message was a little too strong for me back then. It felt gimmicky or corny or - I don't know what - but I just ended up shying away from them. Funny as I grew up to be a real greenie at heart. I really liked their early heavy rock stuff off the '10-1' album and Garrett could head bang/thrash with the best of them. One concert I was at he jumped atop a 12 foot speaker like it was nothing and sent us crazy with his bizarro dance and sweat flying off that cue ball head of his. Think I was only 10 rows back from the front....... Fun stuff!!!

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01-04-2009, 03:13 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliI never liked Midnight Oil much, but I do love The Angels, The Church, Crowded House and Hoodoo Gurus. Thanks, though, Daniel, for Air Supply and Olivia Newton-John. -Al

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01-04-2009, 03:20 PM

Posted By: Steve my complaint is the system in which the cards are graded and the inconsistent manipulative grades that are given out due to who submits the cards. Ok I'll bite, what proof do you have to make that claim? And I mean solid proof, not more of your sour grapes. Steve

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01-04-2009, 03:34 PM

Posted By: E, Daniel<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-04-2009, 03:41 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaMy all-time favorite Aussie artist would definitely have to be JG Thirlwell...I was listening to this stuff in High School. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Tpu6zoYV0" target="_new">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2Tpu6zoYV0</a> And yes my mother was "concerned". <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-04-2009, 03:46 PM

Posted By: Anthony S.Your high school was waaay cooler than mine, Dan. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-ARYb6mZE" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc-ARYb6mZE</a>

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01-04-2009, 04:02 PM

Posted By: JerryI actually liked some Pre-Disco Bee Gees such as Massachusettes (SP.), I just got to get a message to you, 1941 Mining disaster. My middle 60's record collection was a weird mix of Motown, The Beatles, Eric Burton, Rare Earth, Bob Dylan, then came Led Zepplin, Doors, Black Sabbath & jimmi Hendrix and changed the Landscape. Anybody remember The 13th Floor Elevators, Local Phychadelic Band that had some National success.

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01-04-2009, 04:09 PM

Posted By: Anthony S.Jerry, I recently saw a documentary on the lead singer of the "13th Floor Elevators," Roky Erickson. Same name as their one big hit "You're Gonna Miss Me." Dude's had a rough life these past 40 years.

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01-04-2009, 05:41 PM

Posted By: JerryAnthony, I saw that Documentary also. He was talented but it was kinda wasted due to his mental issues. If you like early 60's phychadelic(sp.) Music check out the song by the elevators "Slip inside this House", it's a classic.

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01-04-2009, 06:54 PM

Posted By: Bob PomillaStill have the 13th Floor Elevators album, somewhere. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-04-2009, 07:07 PM

Posted By: Jerry<img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231124822.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-04-2009, 07:08 PM

Posted By: Kevin Saucier"Al or should i say Al Bundy." Now that's just completely uncalled for. If there was any regret for that statement if should be edited out. I consider Al a collecting friend and it troubles me to see these type of insults. Kevin ------------------------------ <a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

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01-04-2009, 07:17 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliKevin, you old bird, I think you're confusing Ted Bundy the serial killer with Al Bundy the shoe salesman on "Married, With Children." Either that, or Marshall is. Which is possible, he's just a young'un. Although according to his website, he's older than me. But he DID open up for Marilyn Manson, so that's got to count for something. -Al

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01-04-2009, 07:20 PM

Posted By: JoannI once opened a jar for my sister who had a friend who had a Marilyn Manson CD. Does that count for anything? J

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01-04-2009, 07:21 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAl, Ted Bundy had a law degree I believe. So if you're smart you'll prefer the Al Bundy comparison.

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01-04-2009, 07:21 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanHey Bro's. I just dropped off 10,000 T206's at Joe Orlando's house. (I was invited to his New Years Eve party.) Joe assured me that they would all be 10's. I would like to show them to you, but I am too dumb to figure out how to post a scan. I'm kinda tired today because I performed with Kari Underwood last night, and today I played quarterback for the Eagles. Gotta run - I've got a good lead on a dozen gem mint LaJoie Goudeys... Rick

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01-04-2009, 07:23 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulli"I performed with Kari Underwood last night" Hey! So did I! -Al

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01-04-2009, 07:24 PM

Posted By: Kevin SaucierHi Al, I know the difference between the two Bundy's. The insult and disrespect tweaked me. It's just not necessary. Now let's pass out the applesauce. ------------------------------ <a href="http://www.AlteredCards.com" rel="nofollow">www.AlteredCards.com</a> - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

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01-04-2009, 07:25 PM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanAL, I meant "musically". How about you? Rick

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01-04-2009, 07:26 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliRick: Oh, okay. I feel better now. -Al

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01-04-2009, 09:23 PM

Posted By: Aaron Patton ...best Aussie band, ever? Not even close: The Birthday Party

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01-04-2009, 11:03 PM

Posted By: J LevineJust so Marshall knows...I am legit. I am no crook. I do not lie, cheat or steal. I am above board in all my dealings and happily answer questions and share information. I am also not alone. For every one thief, scam artist or criminal that Marshall can name, I can name five who are great hobbyists and people. I am tired of people like Marshall who has no hobby presence that I can discern coming on this board and bashing the hobby. I almost did not post this because I just hope this threads die but I am really tired of being lumped together and called thieves or criminal by association. Before Marshall screams that I work for PSA or that I am big submitter, let me let him in on a secret. I have submitted two cards to any grading company in my entire collecting career. Both to make sure that they were not trimmed and both now reside in two of my friend's collections after a sale. 2 cards. My own collection is 99% raw. Some would get high grades, most would not. Marshall, get over yourself and if you want to whine about the grading companies, then fine, but do not bash the hobby or the people in it. Joshua

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01-05-2009, 04:24 AM

Posted By: Sean C...for all of you MMA fans out there, does the name Daniel Puder ring a bell? That's who Marshall reminds me of: someone that likes to yack and self promote more than actually do anything of substance.

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01-05-2009, 06:30 AM

Posted By: Steve F Why do so many high-end collectors talk in the third-person, are passive aggressive, homophobic and generally insecure?.. Please MB, you fool noone here. I challenge you to be yourself <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231165442.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> ...and not what you rent. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1231165464.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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01-05-2009, 07:06 AM

Posted By: jay woltThis Marshall guy makes me long for the wit & wisdom of Peter Chao.

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01-05-2009, 03:46 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanYou guys love to dish it out but when someone gives it back everyone is offended and cries foul. The funny thing is that my e-mail is flooded with people saying the exact things i do about Pro Scam, they also have nothing positive to say about most everyone doing business here except for Leon and a few others. They don't want to post their opinion because they want to continue to buy and sell cards on this site. That being said most artisitic song writers flow in the third person and i just do it on here because it does get a rise. By the way i do feel sorry for the chap who does not know the difference between Ted and Al bundy, that made my day. 2-2 on the Weekend. Lay the points Texas romps.

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01-05-2009, 03:54 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliWhat's wrong, Marshall? Don't you have any bad metal bands to open for today? -Al

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01-05-2009, 04:01 PM

Posted By: Steve they also have nothing positive to say about most everyone doing business here except for Leon and a few others. They don't want to post their opinion because they want to continue to buy and sell cards on this site That makes no sense. Steve

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01-05-2009, 08:01 PM

Posted By: Doug"This Marshall guy makes me long for the wit & wisdom of Peter Chao." My dog leaves more wisdom in tightly coiled piles on the lawn.

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01-05-2009, 08:24 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaI think my favorite troll response has always been "My email box is flooded with supporters".

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01-05-2009, 08:27 PM

Posted By: jdrumBRING THE NOISE!

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01-05-2009, 09:02 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI think my favorite thing about this message board is how many guys like Bretta always have something negative to say. See ya boss. Your way to cool for school.

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01-05-2009, 09:06 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaLater dood!

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01-05-2009, 09:13 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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01-05-2009, 09:19 PM

Posted By: Rob D.Dude, I KNOW you were all over the Buckeyes tonight, weren't you? You are all about the NOIZE!

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01-05-2009, 09:35 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI bet the game under first half which was 26. I bet Texas flat laying 8. My big bets however are teasers which are Texas-2 with Pittsburgh 0, Texas -2 Phil +10, Texas -2 Baltimore +9, Texas-2 Cards +16. The hard part is over because all the teasers are alive. What is amusing to me though is where were you on the last two winners i posted, probably hanging out with Dr. Gloom Bretta.

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01-05-2009, 09:38 PM

Posted By: Rob D.No, Dude. I'm with you all the way. Pure genius. BRING THE NOIZE!!!!

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01-05-2009, 09:49 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanIf you want noise here is the lock of the week. Pittsburgh will walk through San Diego as if they were little girls. Rivers looked horrible against Indy and although i admire the little guy for running the ball with a big heart he has got 0 shot against gaining yardage this week. Ahhhh now where we were oh that is right GAI bankrupt with 50,000 to 100,000 in assests yet they owe creditors between 1,000,000 to 10,000,000. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? B R I N G T H E N O I S E

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01-05-2009, 10:08 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaDang...I thought he he was leaving when he said "See ya".

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01-05-2009, 10:18 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI know what i want to be when i grow up. A Network 54 Moderator. Or perhaps a parking meter attendant. I have not decided which.

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01-05-2009, 10:24 PM

Posted By: Dan Brettaand I thought I was "to (sic) cool for school".

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01-05-2009, 11:49 PM

Posted By: J LevineHas anyone actually seen a card Marshall claims to own? After all this is a board about vintage baseball cards... Joshua

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01-06-2009, 05:52 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanUhhh Josh perhaps just scroll up and you can see several cards that i own. It is why this post was started. To clear up another matter i am not bashing the hobby. I am bashing the manipulative manner in which cards are graded and that Pro Scam is leading the charge. I am quite sure every dealer worth his salt has seen a card in a Pro Scam holder that is so over or under graded that it raises concern about the legitamacy in the grading process. Also if you scroll up Josh you will see a post from a gentleman who is a member of this board, i sold a entire set of American Beauties to him and read what he thinks about their condition. Only 11 people on the Pro Scam set registry have a full set of the Beauties and now he will make the 12th. Of course i BRING THE NOISE and own the cards i speak of kid!

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01-06-2009, 06:29 AM

Posted By: Steve FMr Levine (below) is correct. The guy just craves attention any way he can get it, good or bad. Insult removed <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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01-06-2009, 08:24 AM

Posted By: J LevineVintage baseball cards....please?

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01-06-2009, 01:56 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJust sold 250 T-206's for mad cash pards. Not craving attention just answering back to remarks. Here is what i like about this board so much, people post things and make all kinds of implications and assumptions just trying to play games and then when individuals such as myself produce the goods they just go away kinda go away like Penn State did in the Rose Bowl. BRING THE NOISE. Over 72 in tonight's game it is gonna be a track meet.

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01-06-2009, 02:08 PM

Posted By: JimCrandellI would just settle for talking like a human being.

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01-06-2009, 02:24 PM

Posted By: J LevineMan, I just cannot believe the corruption in golf and music industry today. I just can't get a fair shake. I sent my demo tapes to the top industry guys but if you do not belong to a big label or know someone who is in the industry they just give you the worst grades on your music even though you know it should have been better. All my experience, friends, and mom and dad told me so...They also told me I was the best! I opened for a big artist (no name because he is too big and I don't want to give out any info on him) but it just doesn't matter. They are all corrupt and scumbags and just are not fair. Not even the PGA is legit anymore (heck, The Pro Griping Association). Pro Griping Association refs are just not giving me props. Heck, I have one of the best games around but my scorecard gets no love. They are all in collusion with each other. The refs hate me because I am not a big time PRO. Heck, I just shot a 62 at Pebble Beach but do I get any kind of love. You can ask the big PRO that I just played with but I can't give you his name to protect privacy. Just not fair. I guess I will go take out all my angst on the computer now... PS Just because you say something does not make it true...

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01-06-2009, 02:36 PM

Posted By: JoannGeez Josh. Guess you'll just have to go back to being a decent person and collecting baseball cards. Pard. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> J

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01-06-2009, 03:30 PM

Posted By: Jim VBInteresting thread from the non-sports side. <a href="http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1231028469/last-1231280992/American+Beauties+from+Display+-+-+-+-+-#bottom" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.network54.com/Forum/526604/thread/1231028469/last-1231280992/American+Beauties+from+Display+-+-+-+-+-#bottom</a> According to a few guys, who know more about non-sports cards than I ever will, there is strong speculation that these cards, and the board they were stapled to, may be reprints! Mark Finn posted a real advertising board. The color is different. The type font is different. The cellophane on the packages is different. Even the cards look slightly different. What a waste of time.

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01-06-2009, 03:36 PM

Posted By: Dan BrettaSurely a large batch of reprints would never get by Pro Scam Alliance would they?

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01-06-2009, 03:38 PM

Posted By: Anthony S.B R I N G T H E R E P R I N T S.

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01-06-2009, 03:42 PM

Posted By: boxingcardmanUh, bring me something to be sick in... Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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01-06-2009, 03:51 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanMarshall, ironically you'll now have to rely upon Pro Scam Alliance's expertise in spotting reprints. For what it's worth, however, I don't think the cards are reprints.

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01-06-2009, 07:19 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanThe only thing i have to do is die. I do not have to rely on anyone or anything to enjoy my life. That being said the number 1 first and foremost authority on American Beauties offered five figures for the board. Second the cards were produced during a war and the last time i checked our national colors are red,white and blue. Some of the boards were blue and some were red. I have handled several beauties and know the difference in re-pop material and also real. Let me also state that i own a Abraham Lincoln signed letter and other valueable paper goods so i understand the age of paper well. One of my friends owns a auction house and their expertise is paper. The auction house is comparable to Sotheby's and from this person i have learned an immense amount of knowledge in judging paper and it's age. Did you MF's doubt that i would BRING THE NOISE. Halftime score 24-13 and the track meet is on towards the over. In regards to J. Levine you Sonny Liston wannabe. Why don't you produce something. Let's see some of the big cards you have sent to auction. Anyone can posts scans. I predicted that i owned some of the finest examples of Southern Leaguers on the planet and when the cards got graded kid they were just that. The Harry Bay PSA 6 sold for 1800 which is just sick and i mean sick. The best quote of the planet was by Cassius Clay when he knocked out Liston and said "I'm a bad man" NOW BRING THE NOISE

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01-06-2009, 07:35 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellPersonally, I refuse to bring the noise, especially when shoeless trolls demand that I do. Bill

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01-06-2009, 07:40 PM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI don't know kid your lock of over 72 looks like a dog right now. Unless that track meet gets you 29 points in the fourth quarter you won't be able to bring the noise. Edited to add: and then like 3 seconds later Tulsa scores again. I think the noise is being brought. Edited to add: More noise brought: Tulsa scored again.

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01-06-2009, 07:57 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanJeff...i bet both hands on Tulsa because if you look at the line Ball State was actually a 2 1/2 favorite from the outset and by kickoff i had to lay 3, probably wise guy money or some inside info leeked because that type of swing is monstrous. I loved the over but this monsoon has destroyed my track meet. Carl Lewis would probably run a 13 second 100 yd dash on this field (-: The over is in trouble.

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01-06-2009, 08:05 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulli"That being said the number 1 first and foremost authority on American Beauties offered five figures for the board." So you turned down a five figure offer and tore up the board, in hopes you'd be able to make more money selling low-pop 10s. PSA didn't give you the grades you want, so you come here with your sour grapes. That's rich. Bring the whine. -Al

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01-06-2009, 08:14 PM

Posted By: J Levine"The only thing i have to do is die. I do not have to rely on anyone or anything to enjoy my life. That being said the number 1 first and foremost authority on American Beauties offered five figures for the board. Second the cards were produced during a war and the last time i checked our national colors are red,white and blue. Some of the boards were blue and some were red. I have handled several beauties and know the difference in re-pop material and also real. Let me also state that i own a Abraham Lincoln signed letter and other valueable paper goods so i understand the age of paper well. One of my friends owns a auction house and their expertise is paper. The auction house is comparable to Sotheby's and from this person i have learned an immense amount of knowledge in judging paper and it's age. Did you MF's doubt that i would BRING THE NOISE. Halftime score 24-13 and the track meet is on towards the over. In regards to J. Levine you Sonny Liston wannabe. Why don't you produce something. Let's see some of the big cards you have sent to auction. Anyone can posts scans. I predicted that i owned some of the finest examples of Southern Leaguers on the planet and when the cards got graded kid they were just that. The Harry Bay PSA 6 sold for 1800 which is just sick and i mean sick. The best quote of the planet was by Cassius Clay when he knocked out Liston and said "I'm a bad man" NOW BRING THE NOISE" If the first two sentences are true then why complain about PSA and grading...seems you are not enjoying your life if your life consists of whining about a company that has as it's sole purpose to subjectively provide grades on cardboard. Who is the first and foremost. I respect Mark Zinn and know his credentials. Name your source and I will gladly email that person and ask if an offer was made. Just because you say you own a Lincoln does not make you a paper expert or an autograph expert. What it might mean is that you got scammed. Hope you did not buy that piece from Coach's Corner! I have friends who own auction houses too. I can name them...I can call them on the phone...Rob, Leon, Barry, and Seth...all above board and well respected. You know the name Sotheby's. I can predict that I own the finest examples of some cards as well...but without a transaction history, you have nothing but your word and sorry to say, your word does not hold water here. Show some proof. How, when and who did you sell the Bay PSA 6 to? I know of a Harry Bay PSA 6 Old Mill that could be had for $300 less than you just quoted...also makes yours not the finest example but one of at least two examples. But wait, I know someone that owns a PSA 8 Bay too... Oh, and apparently money makes you sick. Unless you can prove any of your nonsensical ramblings then just go away...last time I am posting in this thread as you are just a troll and I am done...Here is a better quote for you Marshall... "My will has been tested, my courage has been tested, my strength has been tested. Now my patience and endurance are being tested."--Cassius Clay

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01-06-2009, 08:30 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanIn the words of my boy Mike D "LET ME CLEAR MY THROAT". I made a bundle off Tulsa but the Monsoon hurt my chances on the over and that got me. In regards to You Mr. Levine the game is on. I hope you are ready because i am going to BRING MAJOR NOISE. I will bet you 5,000 dollars that i can produce a dealer who offered over 5 figures for the board and for your information if you would pay attention to posts i did not see the offer in my personal e-mail until after i opened the cello packs. I will also bet Mr. Levine 5,000 cash that i can produce the auction record where the Bay sold for 1800 and the owner is probably laughing right now if he reads this because he is a major force to be reckoned with in the card industry. What puzzles me is that when i produce the goods all the drama stops. Anyway if 5K out of your league then i will drop down to the minors and get on the bus and bet like 100 dollars on either bet. Trust me kid you are gonna feel real stupid when the info is released sooooooooooo.... YES I BROUGHT THE NOISE BABY NOW LET'S ROCK either take the bet or Shut the F#%& UP

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01-06-2009, 08:37 PM

Posted By: BillAlright, this Marshall guy is outrageous. Marshall, if you really had the "goods" as you like to call it, then you would simply produce them to prove people wrong. By "betting", all you are doing is hoping that people will back down when the money is brought into the picture and then you won't have to produce anything. For someone that sits here and brags repeatedly, it's amazing that you don't produce anything. Someone that actually owns/owned or has done what you claim and brags this much would have provided proof in your first post. You've exposed yourself as a fraud. Move on. Change your socks, drink water, and drive on.

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01-06-2009, 08:45 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanIt's hard for me to have fun with you Al because you don't read all the posts. I'm sure you are a cool guy but seriously i'm just having a good time so don't take things to heart. Again i did not get the dealers e-mail in time or i would have sold him the board. I posted the board on both this page and the non-sports and got little response. I thought oh well American Beauties must not be collected that much and opened the loose pack that had come off the board and there were three middle cards that were unreal. I decided at that point to crack open another because the card i was trying to pull was "There She Blows" because that is the key card to the set. Once there were no doubles i knew there was a sequence to the board and since there are 24 cards in the set i knew the board would yield 3 complete sets. Of course i am gonna keep cracking. Bro at the Chicago Sun Times show in 2004 i rolled up to the Beckett booth after i sold the first Eli Manning BGS 10 for sick cash and cracked 4 cases of Topps Pristine for kicks. I mean i was raising serious hell and the boys from Beckett had my CD cranked LOUD. BRING THE NOISE. I love opening cards is my point so why wouldn't i open the cello packs?

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01-06-2009, 08:55 PM

Posted By: leonYou are one of these new, shiny-card collectors aren't you? (not that there is anything wrong with that).. Opening those packs probably got your testosterone going but I never could see it. I would rather go to Vegas for pure gambling...but to each their own. Keep it civil and all is cool, dude...

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01-06-2009, 08:59 PM

Posted By: Dan Bretta"in 2004 i rolled up to the Beckett booth after i sold the first Eli Manning BGS 10 for sick cash and cracked 4 cases of Topps Pristine for kicks" WHOA! Marshall buddy, that's too much NOISE for just one post. Turn it down a little for us old guys.

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01-06-2009, 09:00 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanOk here is the deal Bill. Take the bet. Don't be shy. If i'm a fraud you will get paid. Believe me bro you will lose. I will produce the auction record and also auction company. Many people who are remaining quite on this site know me and bought my cards at the auction and then auctioned them themselves. I will gladly send 1000 dollars to Leon to hold and you do the same. Then when he has the money i will scan the auction receipt and post it for all to see. I will also then post the name of the dealer who offered 5 figures and he is a straight shooter and well respected, furthermore he dominates the high end market so there will be no doubt that he def made the offer because he is a no bs kinda guy. It's that simple call me out, call me anything you like and if you are so sure of yourself then pool the bet. Here is a plan- Get Bretta,Levine, and any other playa hater on this board to pool together the 1000 dollars and we have a game. I'll glady post the auction receipt and also the check that was wrote to me for 28,000 ummmmm that's 28k pards not 28 dollars. Your in the big leagues now kid so don't ever call me a fraud because i will roll over top of you like Tulsa plowed through that false favorite Ball State. Is that the fans i hear? As expected the fans are on their feet and what is the chant i hear? BRING THE NOISE BRING THE NOISE BRING THE NOISE oh hellll yeah!

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01-06-2009, 09:08 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanI'm just having fun bro. No hard feelings. Out of the four cases though i pulled some sick cards. What a great year for rookies. The horrible part of the show for me is that i actually put down the box that a Ruth auto jersey was pulled. I literally laid on the floor until a guy who shall remain nameless picked me up. We were laughing so hard because he begged me to buy the box and i was like man screw Legendary cuts. I had Babe Ruth nightmares for weeks LOL.

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01-06-2009, 09:14 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliMarshall: Ah. Never mind. One thing for sure: never in my life have I ever cared enough to ask this question, but can anybody tell me - when does golf season start? -Al

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01-06-2009, 09:21 PM

Posted By: hrbaker"One thing for sure: never in my life have I ever cared enough to ask this question, but can anybody tell me - when does golf season start?" That was funny! Oh, and BRING DA NOIZE!

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01-06-2009, 09:21 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanIf you go to my website even Donald Trump's camp got pissed at me. At the award ceremonies he threw for all us players it was a suit and tie only. Man come on Donald loosen up. I just shot 68 and won first stage qualifying in Tampa, rushed up to South Carolina and shot 72-73 to miss the cut by 1 and then flew to his tournament in the Canaan islands by charter all with two cracked ribs. I was lucky to be standing and in so much pain that just breathing killed me so scram with the suit request. I told my agent man dude i'm sorry but all i have is jeans and i hate suits anyway so i'm gonna be myself and just roll period. Even though the big D was pissed if you look at the gallery pic in my website the hilarious thing is that DT's bodyguard requested a CD and i signed one for him and he is holding it in the photo. Of course i brought the NOISE. By the way i will be a good sport. Even though technically i cannot send out copies of the disc i'll throw caution to the wind. The first 5 people to e-mail me with their address will get a CD and please no hecklers e-mail me. Trust me the guitars will BRING MAJOR NOISE BABY. Leon i had all my friends in stiches with your saturday night live post, all my boys are talking about it in Vegas. That was the best post all year. I was crying watching my man play the cowbell (-:

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01-06-2009, 09:36 PM

Posted By: BillSo, in a long overdrawn post, you pretty much told me that you don't have the proof and continue to press for the bet. Got it. Change your socks, drink water, and drive on.

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01-06-2009, 09:42 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanThere happens to be a set of circumstances that has taken place that will not allow me to take the bet Al.I know you guys don't believe me but my e-mail has been flooded and their is a set of circumstance going on that will not allow me to bet. Here is what i will do, if Leon e-mails me i will talk to him by phone and i trust he is a stand up guy because that is my gut feeling. He can then understand why i cannot accept the bet with what i say. The only reason you and the other lads don't take the other bet is because you know where my cards were sold and how much they sold for (-: In regards to the 1800 dollar comment i'm speechless lol. I will spend 1800 on a halftime bet so get real. Also i am not a collector of new cards. I actually own 2 Reginald Marsh works and my house is littered with antiques and 18th and 19th century items. By the way how cool is Reginald Marsh? I do not own any new cards period. What i would do is show up before the major card shows would open and then just walk the floor and grab all the mint cards i could. By the end of the sweep the tally was mind boggling.

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01-06-2009, 09:45 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanHave proof of what bro?

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01-06-2009, 09:53 PM

Posted By: E, DanielI don't think Marshall is going to get it so there really is no point in trying to pull him up. He's all the self-absorbed lonely/needy posters from Billy to et.al all rolled into one with a mouth stuck on yammer. One step forward on everyone's toes and two twinkle toe steps back hoping people will find his bravado bs somehow endearing enough to welcome him into the family. Aint going to happen Marshall. Dipsticks like you just never know how to stop, even in their most sober moment. And what makes it really amusing is you have absolutely zero idea of the makeup of this board. This isn't a forum for aquarium enthusiasts or pez collectors. It's filled with people from every walk of life and every pay scale but who all understand what it takes to participate. And it's not noise. Or payscales. Or any other bs. It's about the hobby. It's about people who've spent e-frickin normous amounts of time learning and sharing knowledge you will never see the value in aquiring. There are judges and lawyers and people who are silly wealthy on this board who are as comfortable talking cards with the bus drivers and postal workers among us as could be. Because we have respect here. A genuine respect gained from understanding life and the really important things like the health of family and friends, and the scandalous enjoyment we all giddily share around these little bits of cardboard. And we can come here and conspiratorily enjoy it with eachother. There's nothing here for you Marshall, you're not interested in what we do here and what we share. I think you're looking for somewhere to brag and impress and this aint the joint. Every day of the week we get to look at cards that fellow collectors spend $5 to $50,000 and show freely, and enjoy them all equally. So you're really not in our league anyway. Seriously. Why don't you just piss off and find some shiny stuff collectors who find your stories impressive? You'll get a lot more interest elsewhere - I promise.

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01-06-2009, 10:02 PM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliI had deleted my post, but Daniel, as usual, is far more eloquent than I anyway. He said it much better than I had. -Al

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01-06-2009, 11:00 PM

Posted By: marshall barkmanE Daniel....your post reminded me of my high school chemistry teacher what a bore and she had no ass. ZZZZZZZ blah blah blah ZZZZZZZZ zinc blahhh blahh iron ore ZZZZZZZ cut open frog ZZZZZZZ. I am wondering if you went to the Jimmy Swaggart school of speech giving and are you like some evangelical wannabe? Bro if you had any clue to what i know about the members on this board you would not make silly comments. Also dude i am at a loss on this acceptance deal. You need some serious medication if you think i'm looking for acceptance from people or maybe a fender smashed over your head a few times to understand reality. My friend i come from the playground of a few individuals that changed music forever, there was a movement from South Beach to Seattle of a select group of individuals that overthrew the music industry with Kurt Cobain at the forefront, we tore down barriers and were not afraid to BRING THE NOISE. I just did not sign a record deal hence i am more underground and really did not want anyone to own my artistic freedom, i will admit that i signed a independent record deal at the beginning of my career and had several talks with RCA records but once the band had a following i only cared about BRINGING THE NOISE . Back in the day i partied with Layne Staley,Brian Warner,Kurt Cobain and many others and took part in conversations about how music needed to change. In South Beach where my band and Marily Manson lived at the time we basically BROUGHT THE NOISE and i mean BROUGHT THE NOISE. I do not worship the devil and my music is nothing like Manson's but i respect him as a artist because he takes **** from no one and is one serious hardcore crazy individual. Also let me state that my original post came after Bruce Dorskind raised a serious yet logical question in regards to the hobby. If you scroll to the original post i spoke of only my experience with PSA, all the usual snide remarks, critical comments, mental jabs and so on started once my post was made. There was no critical statement about any individual in my original post, what makes you sick is the fact that i fought back. I BROUGHT the MFing NOISE kid. What makes others sick is that i am myself. I don't change or listen to anyone. Let's have a history lesson lad. Do you really think if you took a poll of 100 people male and female from the age of 18 to 70 that a majority of them would know these names? Sonny Liston, Neil Armstrong,Oscar Robertson, Steve Largent, Barry Sanders, Steve Carlton,Neil Diamond? No most folks would only know a few. Now how about this list Muhammed Ali, Evel Knievel, Bob Dylan, Roger Clemens, Jerry Lee Lewis, Michael Jordan? Do you know why the individuals on the first list aren't known like the second? Because they are reserved,politically correct,silent types and that is BORINGGGG not ENTERTAININNNG. Now on the second you have upstarts, trash talkers, cousin marriers, daredevils, and system challengers. Think what you want E Daniel but bro i am not looking for any acceptance especially from a baseball message board. I like this board because i buy cards off of it and it just cracks me up especially Bruce dorskind and his wild antics. It actually is grounding for me in a way like Leon's cowbell post which had me in stitches and my friends were in tears. Realize i do not post here often and soon you will be back to talking about glued backs on T-206 cards and does anyone recognize this fake version of a 50 dollar card. I would rather watch cows mating as to read some of these boring posts. It has been fun and dont' get down Daniel because Judge Smails is about to invite you over to Bushwood so he can show you his new card. Last but not least no matter what BRING THE NOISE FIGHT THE POWER THAT BE!

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01-06-2009, 11:19 PM

Posted By: AnonymousI just sent a card saying if I got a good grade I would send it to a certain auction house in CA ... lets see if it works p.s. I am really not sending it to be sold .... at 23 years old I'm in it for the LONGGGGGGGG haul.

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01-06-2009, 11:30 PM

Posted By: Anthony N.Leon- can we please trade this jacknut for Peter Chao? At least Peter was entertaining. Even swap. Laugh out loud.

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01-07-2009, 12:48 AM

Posted By: Sean CI take back my previous comparison to Daniel Puder, as I now think Marshy Marh here has a far better comparison: Ed Wuncler III from The Boondocks: Link not safe for work, or for those easily offended by foul language. Feel free to remove if it's over the line, Leon: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj12ZaCSufA" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj12ZaCSufA</a> Link not safe for work, or for those easily offended by foul language. Feel free to remove if it's over the line, Leon: Instead of babbling incoherently here, MB3, why don't you take some time to update your website or myspace page. It looks like it hasn't been updated for at least a year or so. Speaking of your sites... Is that just a 5 song EP, or have you actually recorded a real album (I can't seem to find "Marshall 68" anywhere online, not even iTunes). Not that I'm a music critic or anything, but as a fan of metal and alternative music, well, I just hope your golf game is where you plan on making most of your $.

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01-07-2009, 04:52 AM

Posted By: barrysloateMarshall- I've been quiet since you've started posting but thought I would chime in here. You say you would rather be entertaining instead of boring. But I must tell you, you are incredibly boring. And you come on this board and insult good people, turn a baseball card chatboard into a betting parlor, put everyone to sleep with your latest over/under picks in college football, and just carry on like a jackass. Don't you have some golf balls to hit somewhere? Somehow you think you've livened up a dull place with your ever so clever quips but I think you are just an idiot. And the majority of people around here will be happy when you get tired of posting and move on. I know I will.

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01-07-2009, 04:59 AM

Posted By: Rick McQuillanRemember when we had the surveys at the top of the page and we could vote on certain questions? How about a new survey? We could vote Yes or No on whether or not to lock out Marshall's IP address. Rick

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01-07-2009, 05:59 AM

Posted By: DougYeah, it's about time someone TAKES THE NOISE!!! Take it far away...

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01-07-2009, 07:12 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanSilly lads Trix are for kids. I started the post as a genuine concern in regards to the grading process and it's fairness. Then accusations and assumptions along with insults started being posted so i just thought no problem and slung the mud right back. In regards to your comment Barry if i am soooo boring then why is the post going on 192? You don't have to read this or respond to this post. In regards to the comments concerning my website and also myspace there is a continuing set of circumstance that is ongoing hence no updates or changes since 2006. I have to be honest with all the clowns that think i'm a fraud. If i myself thought someone was bogus and then posted my thoughts for everyone to see about the individual the last thing i would do is back down if the guy shot back a wager. This entire thing reminds me of Tombstone and i'm dealing with about 10 Ike Clantons. You guys are judges,lawyers and have so many premo cards as i have read in the previous posts then put your money where your mouth is. I don't care if Leon blocks my ip address and i will not be upset if he does. What is satisfying to me is that you little girls got all riled up during this post, remember also started the mudslinging and when it came time to settle the accusations with a friendly wager every one of you backed down. WAHHHHHHH sniff snifff WAHHHHHHHH mommy Marshall is picking on us make him go away. Again my friends BRING THE NOISE and Florida rolls right through this overated Oklahoma squad.

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01-07-2009, 07:17 AM

Posted By: barrysloateWell that's about what I expected.

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01-07-2009, 07:34 AM

Posted By: leonI will, once again, go far against the grain and say Marshall's posts are mildly entertaining. Sometimes I have to agree that cards, while exciting as all get out sometimes, can be boring. Don't get me wrong...I still get the faster heartbeat, at cards I am after, and enjoy just about everything about the hobby but sometimes a little train wreck here or there isn't so bad. But again, that's just me. Of course it won't going on forever and very soon we will be back to the basics. This will continue to be a great place to talk about pre-war baseball cards as long as we want it to be. I realize some of my decisions don't make some folks happy but overall I think the health of the board and the hobby are doing fine.... take care everyone...

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01-07-2009, 07:39 AM

Posted By: E, DanielBut I will just say this. Your patience for allowing others to be insulted on this board is FAR greater than when you yourself are the subject of diatribe. But I guess thats all good, it is your board and everything.....

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01-07-2009, 07:50 AM

Posted By: Doug"a little train wreck here or there isn't so bad." I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that one...

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01-07-2009, 07:50 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliMarshall, one of the reason that this thread is 192 posts is that 35 of them are yours. Come on here, insult a few people, and they fire back at you. This thread would have been dead at 35 posts if you were able to just move on. There's nothing interesting or entertaining about that. Frankly, I continue to post in this thread because I'm bored, not because I'm entertained. I suspect that others feel the same. Second point: You "partied" with a bunch of early 90s Seattle rock stars? I would be willing to bet that not one of them knows you, and on the off chance that one does, I'd bet they don't consider you someone they "partied" with. I would guess that would be the second bet I offered you in this thread that you were unwilling to take. Third point: I visited your website and Myspace page that haven't been updated in two years. It's not my policy to poke at what interests people or what they do for a living, and on this particular message board, I'm not a music reviewer. So that doesn't leave me with much to say. However, I would suggest that dropping the kinds of names you're dropping is a mistake when you don't know the people you're dropping them to. Marilyn Manson and Layne Staley do not impress me. If you had some prewar baseball card knowledge, which clearly you do not, THAT would impress me. That's why I am a member of this board, and that's why many people here have built the type of relationships with each other that you clearly are incapable of having. Fourth point: The fact that people like Daniel and Barry and Joann are taking pokes at you is not something you should be wearing as a badge of honor. Those are people who respect the integrity of this community, and who have earned the respect of their peers here. Ask how often I get involved in flame wars on message boards - almost never. Same with the three people I mentioned above. If you had taken the time to learn about this board before you began yammering on with your 20-year-old song lyrics, perhaps you would have realized that there are better ways to introduce yourself to a party than by being the drunk guy vomiting on the living room rug. Being so lonely must really suck. -Al

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01-07-2009, 08:07 AM

Posted By: leonI understand your feelings on this and it won't go on longer than today.....and probably not too much longer at all. I know I go against the grain on some things....AND I don't like to see my friends insulted......I just want to make sure ya'll know those few things. Once this thread is locked I won't let another similar one be started in the near future. I am sorry if I offend any good members but I am giving my perspective....take care

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01-07-2009, 08:17 AM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyAfter reading a few posts here I thought to myself that this clown is probably just some young kid that was never taught manners or how to speak in an adult world. But then I realized this guy is 40 years old and still acting like this...pretty pathetic. He is a "never was" that likes to throw out names of people that he "partied with" that have actually made an impact on the lives of others as if that somehow makes his worth something. He is an ex-wanna-be golfer, an ex-wanna-be-rock-star with a major gambling problem, anthing he says should be taken at face value...worthless. -Rhett

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01-07-2009, 08:28 AM

Posted By: sagardI've been inspired. I'm going to sign up with PSA, send them some cards, and report how they treat me. Hopefully it will be just as comical as this thread.

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01-07-2009, 08:32 AM

Posted By: leonAnd you know I like you and everything too. I just want to say that I respectfully disagree 100% with your last post. Marshall was responding to others comments, for the most part, and the way he posts, at least to me, isn't as malicious as those 2-3 individuals that were banned. I am positive that if I asked Marshall to quit he would....The others you mention...no way...best regards

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01-07-2009, 09:01 AM

Posted By: Joann"there are better ways to introduce yourself to a party than by being the drunk guy vomiting on the living room rug." Pure art of the metaphor. ! Joann

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01-07-2009, 09:08 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanWhat i think is odd is that guys like E Daniel, Al and a few others started with the insults and i fired back. If you clowns would have responded like Leon which was a legitimate response to my post then none of this would go one. You guys made it personal and really do not know anything about BRINGING NOISE what your bringing sounds like dental chair flute tones. In regards to you Al and your Yoda-Superior like knowledge about pre-war baseball cards then YOU take my bet as to where my PRE-WAR Harry Bay sold for 1700 and also take my bet that my Beauties and board had a offer of five figures from a major dealer who is well respected. I don't drop names period because facts are fact, if you know or have done things it is just fact. Alright you got me i'm false i don't know anyone or have any friends. That is actually not Donald Trump beside me it is Barry Sloate dressed up like Donald. No that is not Olympic gold medalist Ed Moses chilling with me and rasing hell it is E Daniel dressed as him and that's not me it is a model from the Penguin clothing company. If i am such a fraud why would a top producer like James Paul Wisner work with me? Hmmmmmm he only created Emo-rock and has worked with many top acts. Why would Chris Lord Alge mix the single Elaine if a were this non-talented gambling addict wannabe? By the way kids CLA is the best in the business he has mixed singles for Madonna,Michael Jackson,Bruce Springsteen and also mixed the last Green Day record. Jeeeezzz how do i know all this ohhhhhh that's right i'm making it up. First of all Brian Warner would never accept phone calls from anyone and it's a pity but Layne Staley and Kurt Cobain are dead. Now i will BRING SOME MAJOR NOISE wanna bet Chris Lord Alge is not on the back of my cd credits? Wanna bet that James Paul Wisner did not produce it. Out of 200 posts maybe 35 are mine but they are responses to accusations made. If you notice i never responded to any of the first posts in regards to my question about PSA because they were legit responses. I only responded to certain remarks and accusations that were personal attacks so enough said. I don't think any of you know how hard it is to shoot a 65 or 68 in professional competition so i will not even address the golf remarks. One thing i do know is that i am the MF'er that shot the scores and by the way i BROUGHT MAJOR NOISE in doing so and their were hecklers around that do not like the NOISE and i have the cash and USGA medal to prove it so once again in honor of my main man Chuck D. FIGHT THE POWER. If you think i'm bad then never meet Michael Jordan. I have never heard anyone BRING THE NOISE like this guy on the basketball court. I watched him courtside many times and he brought a new level to the trash talking game. Once again with the aid of a cow bell and Bruce Dickinson I BROUGHT THE NOISE!

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01-07-2009, 09:15 AM

Posted By: marshall barkmanOnce again doll smart remark about being introduced throwing up at a party. When was the last time you were spanked? Perhaps a few taps will change your perspective and you may lighten up a little on your obvious frustrations. I'm not being introduced anywhere. I know several people on this board and have bought and posted cards here so what planet are you from? By the i love parties but i don't ever recall throwing up at any.

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01-07-2009, 09:18 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanI bet Chuck D has better grammar and can spell better than you, Eminem...I mean Marshall.

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01-07-2009, 09:21 AM

Posted By: JimCrandellJoann can speak for herself but if I was her I would be grossly offended by that comment.

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01-07-2009, 09:22 AM

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman"That is actually not Donald Trump beside me it is Barry Sloate dressed up like Donald." Barry only wishes he had hair like The Donald. And Barry does bring the noise -- but only if it's before 9 pm; then he calls the police!

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01-07-2009, 09:40 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- I'll tell you what, I do agree with Marshall about one thing: This is one noisy thread. But to call Joann "doll" and ask her when was the last time she was spanked...Joann, I hope you read this and come back with a thoughtful and pointed response. I'm counting on you! Marshall, what you really need are manners.

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01-07-2009, 09:44 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliSigh. Marshall, you are officially an idiot. A little clarification: 1) I did not start with insults. I started with comments about your sour grapes, and a comment about how I thought it was hypocritical (although I used softer language) that you tore up a historically significant piece in hopes of cashing in on the registry game, and when you didn't get the grades you wanted, you called out PSA for being crooked. It was your responses that encouraged the insults, particularly one questioning my level of education. 2) I do not have Yoda-like knowledge about prewar baseball cards; I am a child in comparison with the knowledge of others on this board. On this board I respect the people who share their knowledge in an intelligent, respectful manner, and you have not done that. All you've done is complain about your grades, brag about your sale prices, and prattle on with your ridiculous comments about the rock and roll business, of which you are no more a part than any other guy with a guitar and a demo tape. 3) I would imagine that you obtained your studio engineer and mixer the same way most other bands do - by paying them or by signing a development deal with them. Certainly neither of them worked for points, because engineers generally only do that when they think the record might actually sell. And of course, if you pay someone to engineer your record, you'll list them on your CD credits. 4) As for who "created" emo, I would imagine that Ian MacKaye and the folks at Dischord Records might disagree with your assessment. So would Sunny Day Real Estate, Shudder To Think, Husker Du, and every DC or LA indie or skate punk band from the 80s. 5) Can't comment on the golf stuff, because I know nothing about golf, but once again, I can't wait for the season to start. 6) Your comments about Joann, along with your comments about your "favorite hottie," are the type of comments I would expect from someone for whom women are a foreign concept. I'm not surprised. -Al