You know who you are [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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11-11-2008, 08:45 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray<img src="http://www.nhbgear.com/forum/Smileys/default/fing06.gif" alt="[linked image]">

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11-11-2008, 08:48 AM

Posted By: randits funny, but necessary??

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11-11-2008, 08:50 AM

Posted By: Joe D.I don't think this is me (not sure)..... but I did just pick up something we discussed earlier in the year - so it may apply to me as well <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-11-2008, 08:54 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaDid another auction end early?

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11-11-2008, 08:56 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray"Did another auction end early?" Yes

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11-11-2008, 09:03 AM

Posted By: Rawn HillMy favorite smiley ever in fact my favorite post ever. Rawn

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11-11-2008, 09:08 AM

Posted By: MattWhat was it?

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11-11-2008, 09:12 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray"What was it?" No. 119 of 122 <img src="/images/sad.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="sad.gif">

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11-11-2008, 09:12 AM

Posted By: Al C.risafulliHey guys! Guess what! I found an Ullman Postcards Henry Mathewson on eBay, and got the seller to end the auction early for ten bucks! -Al

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11-11-2008, 09:24 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray<img src="http://popforum.net/images/smiles/icon_lmao.gif" alt="[linked image]"> You are such a card! (pun intended)

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11-11-2008, 09:27 AM

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm"My favorite smiley ever in fact my favorite post ever. Rawn" Yes, but do you want your kid who reads this forum exposed to that kind of trash? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-11-2008, 09:31 AM

Posted By: Rawn HillHe appreciates humor and not negativity. Rawn

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11-11-2008, 09:32 AM

Posted By: Jodi Birkholm<img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-11-2008, 09:42 AM

Posted By: GeorgeHC<img src="http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7254/cowbellfn0.gif" alt="[linked image]">

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11-11-2008, 10:03 AM

Posted By: BobSteve- You may be referring to the 1911 Zeenut Bernard on ebay this morning which had a Buy It Now. I was lucky to have stumbled on it when I was doing my morning search because Veteran's Day closed everything down. ????? This wasn't a snatch and grab, it was a BIN and I paid too much but I needed it. Not sure if this is what you were referring to or not... tbob

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11-11-2008, 10:07 AM

Posted By: andy beckeri feel your pain brotha <img src="/images/sad.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="sad.gif">

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11-11-2008, 10:18 AM

Posted By: Steve MurrayThe Bernard had an opening bid of $75 which I placed. Never had a BIN so I don't know what you're talking about.

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11-11-2008, 10:24 AM

Posted By: RedThe auction listing for the card, starting at $75, was ended at 07:56:01. The card was then relisted with a BIN and was plucked off at 08:00:55.

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11-11-2008, 10:26 AM

Posted By: T206Collector....provide a link. It makes posts more interesting. <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeenut-1911-BERNARD-Los-Angeles-PCL-Baseball-Card_W0QQitemZ220309600640QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 220309600640&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2 %7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeenut-1911-BERNARD-Los-Angeles-PCL-Baseball-Card_W0QQitemZ220309600640QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 220309600640&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2 %7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318</a> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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11-11-2008, 10:27 AM

Posted By: Brian McQueenAlright, I think I can make a bit of sense on this. I had this card on my radar as well and I think I have a decent guess in place as to what happened. The top screenshot below shows the auction for the Bernard that I was watching. It clearly shows that the auction was ended early. This is what I see if I click on the link to the item from my Ebay Watch page. The second screenshot shows a second auction which shows up under "completed auctions" as a card with a set price (which I blacked out). You can see the "Buy it now" icon on the screenshot as well. Both auctions are listed under completed auctions. So basically, for some reason, the seller ended the first auction early and then went back and put a BuyItNow on the card at a significantly higher price. Not the best move on the seller's part if you ask me. The seller left money on the table by not letting the auction play itself out. My bid alone would have been well over the final auction value. <a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/?action=view&current=1226427728.jpg"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/1226427728.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/?action=view&current=1226427757.jpg"><img src="http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/nudan92/1226427757.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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11-11-2008, 10:28 AM

Posted By: T206Collector....a side deal was hatched, whereupon the seller dropped the auction and relisted as a coordinated BIN at a price that was mutually agreeable to the buyer. Could be that someone else swooped in and foiled the plot. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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11-11-2008, 10:30 AM

Posted By: Mattthe ended listing and the BIN being hit were 4 minutes apart.

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11-11-2008, 10:31 AM

Posted By: Steve MurrayWhat was the BIN?

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11-11-2008, 10:34 AM

Posted By: dstudebaSteve - That sucks. Was it a private listing when you bid on it? Otherwise the seller made the listing private to cover up the guy who he made the deal with.

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11-11-2008, 10:36 AM

Posted By: Joe D.Al.... looks like you are safe with your Ullman pickup. I was worried Steve would be angry about my W601 Detroit Postcard that I picked up by asking the seller to end early for $9..... looks like I am safe too.

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11-11-2008, 10:40 AM

Posted By: SeanSteve, That really sucks, but I have to say your smiley with the middle fingers is the best I have seen. Here is the buy it now auction listing: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeenut-1911-BERNARD-Los-Angeles-PCL-Baseball-Card_W0QQitemZ220310477922QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 220310477922&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2 |65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeenut-1911-BERNARD-Los-Angeles-PCL-Baseball-Card_W0QQitemZ220310477922QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 220310477922&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2 |65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318</a>

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11-11-2008, 10:42 AM

Posted By: Steve Murray BIN price: US $500.00

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11-11-2008, 10:50 AM

Posted By: Dan BrettaSo evidently we have a situation in which someone asked the seller to end the auction with a $500 BIN and TBob stumbled upon it and got it before the other guy?

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11-11-2008, 10:53 AM

Posted By: Dave HaasOr Tbob requested it to be a BIN!

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11-11-2008, 11:05 AM

Posted By: Brian McQueen I don't think that Bob did anything that several others didn't do to try to secure the card. That's just kinda how it goes with Ebay auctions sometimes. I believe it was the seller's decision to yank his auction down and start the new one up. This was a decision that he/she made because of the interest people were showing in the Bernard. I think Bob just happened to be in the right place at the right time when that took place. It's a nice deal for Bob, a disappointment for myself, Steve and other interested parties and, bluntly put, a bad move for the seller. As for Bob's win, all I can do is tip my hat and say "well played, sir." I guess from now on, when I see a card on the bay that I need, I might write the seller and say something along the lines of "Do yourself a favor and let the auction play out. DON'T end it early if you want to achieve the full value of what your card is worth" When cards that are tough and needed by several people like this come up, there's really no way of placing a value on it accurately until after the auction ends. Anyone who tries is pretty much just pulling a random number out of a hat.

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11-11-2008, 11:15 AM

Posted By: Dave F Congrats Bob. Most everybody here has wheeled and dealed on ebay...nothing new. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-11-2008, 11:17 AM

Posted By: T206Collector....something rare or unique I need to have, I always say, "Please don't end your auction early. If you are considering ending your auction early, please give me an opportunity to make an offer." _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Visit <a href="http://www.t206collector.com" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.t206collector.com</a> for Net54 T206 archive, signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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11-11-2008, 11:23 AM

Posted By: MattIf tBob had asked the seller to end it, then he would have said so above; from what he said, he just happened to stumble upon the BIN listing a few minutes after it got put up for someone else.

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11-11-2008, 11:25 AM

Posted By: peter ullmanYup...just another self serving act to end an ebay auction early. It happens all of the time...it's not against the rules...despite it being a DICK move...it happens all of the time...let the seller beware!

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11-11-2008, 11:58 AM

Posted By: Marty OgelvieI have never had to ask a seller to end an auction early. I'm not sure how I feel about it but it seems to have become the norm for ultra rare cards. marty

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11-11-2008, 01:02 PM

Posted By: dan mckeeI did this once and Scott E wrote the seller and offered thousands more than I got the BIN for and the seller renegged on me. Scott never bought the card, just didn't want me to have it and the seller was too stupid to see that. So he auctioned it again, I didn't bid and he got less than my BIN I believe. It is a jungle out here.

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11-11-2008, 01:07 PM

Posted By: Dave F As I said, if a seller wants to end something early..by all means, do it. Most the sellers that do so obviously don't know what they have and are inexperienced sellers. Someone that hasn't sold a whole lot and they have an item on ebay that has been sitting at $60 bucks for a couple of days i'm sure feels like they aren't going to get "big money". They just don't know it can be 60 bucks with 20 seconds to go and then something jump to $800....when for days at $60 they would just as soon end the auction to someone that offers $200.

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11-11-2008, 01:10 PM

Posted By: Fred CI can't believe that anybody here is surprised if a seller takes an auction down and sets up a BIN for it. This has been going on for years. I used to think it was bush league until I didn't win a few auctions because the seller sold it off line. Then I figured it out - if you can't beat'em then figure out another way to beat'em and if that includes using the same methods, then so be it. I think the best way to eliminate something like this from happening is to BID a large enough bid to let the seller figure out that what's up for auction is something valuable. If two or three people put up a nice bid then the seller will probably let the auction run its course. Lots of sellers have no clue what they're selling. They probably figure that a nice offer is better than waiting it out. The next time someone wants something REALLY bad then throw a reasonable bid on the item because maybe, just maybe you're not the only person to see the auction. What's truly sad though is if the seller gives away something because they had no idea of what the value was. Oh well, to the victor goes the spoils. Personally, I'd rather see the card sell for a reasonable amount but if it didn't then the buyer got a deal. Something to consider is that the buyer should get the seller to BIN it because the seller can turn into an a$$ and burn you if they receive emails from other potential buyers letting them know that they'd either pay more for the card or that the seller just got ripped off. That's why a decent offer and a BIN work best. Hey TBOB - if you happened to ask the seller to end the auction with a BIN and the seller did it then my hats off to you! For those of you that disagree, well lets just agree to disagree and perhaps you need to get into the 21st century of how ebay (and ebayers) operate.

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11-11-2008, 01:13 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanSo basically taking advantage of unsuspecting sellers...is OK?!

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11-11-2008, 01:26 PM

Posted By: Fred CPeter, Perhaps you didn't read the full post... I'd rather see the seller get a decent price for something valuable but if they don't then the seller screwed themselves. Is $500 for that card a truly poor offer? It's all about timing and luck. Sometimes you get lucky, most of the times you don't. I've missed out on a lot of cards because of this tactic but after a while I figured it out and I've come out ahead but I'd like to think I made reasonable offers when I won. If people on this board asked "WHO DUNNIT", I'd fess up.

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11-11-2008, 01:33 PM

Posted By: Dave F Peter- I don't know that there is an alternative to "taking advantage of unsuspecting sellers". Obviously if seller A agrees to end an item for $500 then they are happy with that amount. Does it matter if the item is worth $4000? I'm not sure it does. Nobody holds a gun to the seller's head to end an auction...either they are presented with "i'll give such and such for this card" or "what would you take to end this?". Whatever that amount is, it'e obviously enough to make the seller happy. And like Fred said, you can disagree with the practice all you want, but in this day and age auctions not going the full term are a common practice on ebay.

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11-11-2008, 01:38 PM

Posted By: Rhett YeakleyI know most on here don't have a problm doing this, and I have even done it on occasion. However, It is my opinion (I repeat, MY opinion) that it is kinda weak to do it when an auction already has a bid on it, it is something that I personally will not do. In other words, once someone else has placed one bid I do kinda have a problem with it. Ebay is what it is, and buyers will always go to just about any lengths to get what they want, and it will get cut-throat at times, but I do believe it is one of the things that gives not just our hobby but all collectors a black eye to the general population. -Rhett

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11-11-2008, 01:43 PM

Posted By: Dave F I agree Rhett. Once an item has bids, I don't think you should end it. As a seller, your isolating any potential buyers from ever looking at your stuff again because they just get plain pissed off.

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11-11-2008, 01:50 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanI'll agree to disagree with this practice...it's not worth the strife.

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11-11-2008, 01:59 PM

Posted By: Bob Lemke The old cataloger in me has to ask . . . why should a Bernard 1911 Zeenuts command such a premium?

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11-11-2008, 02:02 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanapparently a few people want/need it...and it's hard to find.

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11-11-2008, 02:18 PM

Posted By: Alan UWith the BIN, the Microsoft discount could have been used (currently at 25%)

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11-11-2008, 02:28 PM

Posted By: 1880nonsportsI've done it albeit infrequently. My offer is always strong - success about 20% of the time. I'd prefer if it didn't happen but understand that it may be a seller's right to sell their item to whom and for what they chose. I have written as often to sellers to NOT end their auctions early, As a seller (8000+ items sold) - I have ended ONE auction early for an inconsequential item. (edited to add - it REALLOY sucks when you are on the short end. Many serious collectors including myself have fallen vitim. I feel your pain - think of it as getting drawn out on yet again by four on the board and brush it off. I knew you'd get around to using dem fancy emotive icons again <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">)

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11-11-2008, 02:35 PM

Posted By: AnonymousOnce an item has a bid it should be allowed to run it's course. On the other hand, the item belongs to the seller and Ebay allows for auctions to be ended and sold to the high bidder early, it also allows for sellers to end the item, cancel any bids and sell under a BIN. Am I to understand that the 'winner' just happened upon it? (While it was being relisted)? If so, what makes him think the seller will follow through? He has given his word to someone else and may not realize it yet. Either way the OP is not getting it and he was simply trying to play fair. Steve Note to the person that wrote too far to the right...........................................> It is not easy reading this thread!

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11-11-2008, 02:53 PM

Posted By: Jerry RuckerSteve, That looks Like a Kilroy Smiley

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11-11-2008, 02:59 PM

Posted By: Glen VI'm always scared to alert the seller to what an item might be worth. It seems like a seller with a $500 offer on an item would just have a friend bid $499 and let the auction run it's course, betting the buyer will bid at least $500...

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11-11-2008, 03:47 PM

Posted By: Fred CSteve, The reason for the horizontal scroll bar is the screen shots that Brian included earlier in the thread. If those screen shots were reduced in size or replaced with URLs then the horizontal scroll bar would disappear.

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11-11-2008, 04:16 PM

Posted By: BobYup...just another self serving act to end an ebay auction early. It happens all of the time...it's not against the rules...despite it being a DICK move...it happens all of the time...let the seller beware!" Peter U, you owe me an apology. I just got back from work and had to read a bunch of crap based on what people thought or guessed without any facts. Here are the facts: I noticed several Zeenuts on ebay last night. At the time they had been on for over a day and not one of them had a single bid. I planned on laying in the weeds and actually made a snipe bid with E-Snipe. I contacted the seller about whether or not the card would or could be sold before the auction ran its course. I heard nothing and later went to bed. This morning I received an email from the seller that he had received offers for the card and to be fair was going to re-list the card with a "Best Offer" so I geared up for a war. Later on in the morning the original liting was ended and the card relisted with a "Best Offer" but also a Buy It Now. I had no clue a BIN would be used and absolutely never spoke to the seller about a BIN, or that I would agree to buy the card for that amount. I was lucky to see the card with the BIN during a break at work and after some initial hesitation took the plunge and hit the BIN. I had no clue how long the BIN had been there and I guess it's possible that someone had said they would buy it for $500 and to put up a BIN and I was just extremely lucky and spoiled someone's best laid plans, but I believe the seller honestly put a BIN up there which was greater than the offers made to end the auction. He did nothing wrong, I certainly did nothing wrong. This is also not a case where someone zips in with a bid of $50 for a $500 card and an unsuspecting seller. If you notice what he is selling the Weaver for he knows all about Zeenuts. I think I paid too much for the Bernard but it is a tough card, but certainly not as tough as Melchior, Lindsey, Fullerton, Halla, Smith SF and others. I guess this is exactly why collectors keep their mouths shut about things like this. If I hadn't frankly spoken about what had happened, no one would have ever known, but since neither seller nor buyer acted wrongly, I felt it could be posted. I'd also like to state that there are some hypocritical collectors on here because I know for a fact a couple of the "boo-hoo" posts were made by guys who had convinced sellers to end auctions early but won't admit it and condemn others. THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE

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11-11-2008, 04:25 PM

Posted By: peter ullmanBOB...I was in no way referring to you...just anyone who asks to have auctions ended routinely with the intent of lowballing an uneducated seller. Personally...I find this practice deplorable...this is just my opinion...and I'm done discussing this topic...forever! pete ullman

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11-11-2008, 04:25 PM

Posted By: BobDan- To answer your question the seller lists all of his items with Protected IDs, check his other auctions currently running. There was no conspiracy to protect the guy who BINed it as the item was originally listed as ID Protected also. Peter- OK, I guess I just got a little oversensitive, you are a good guy and I should have known you didn't mean it pesonally. Bob

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11-11-2008, 05:56 PM

Posted By: Dave F Bob- I don't think you owe anyone an explanation. Congrats on a card that seems to be fairly tough.

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11-11-2008, 06:17 PM

Posted By: Steve MurrayOK, I've read all of the comments to my post and here is my take on it. First, I was unaware that the seller had stopped the auction that I had a bid on and that he had relisted the card with a BIN. To me that makes a difference as the rules allow it and he wasn't cheating anyone. Had I known that I probably wouldn't have posted at all. Second, as someone suggested that one put in a high bid to show the seller that there was real interest wouldn't have worked here unless I wanted to bid against myself with a different ID. I was the first and only bidder and it mattered not whether I bid the $75 or $750 as all the seller knows is that there is a $75 bid. Third, Since I had bid and had shown interest by doing so it would have been nice if the seller would have included me in the goings on behind the scene. That it would have necessarily made things different is hard to say and the seller certainly wasn't under any obligation to do so. Fourth, All is fair in this game and while we don't like to have it happen to us, it does, and we move on.

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11-11-2008, 06:55 PM

Posted By: Fred CHey, at least the card is in the N54 family!

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11-11-2008, 08:40 PM

Posted By: Wesley"First, I was unaware that the seller had stopped the auction that I had a bid on and that he had relisted the card with a BIN. To me that makes a difference as the rules allow it and he wasn't cheating anyone. Had I known that I probably wouldn't have posted at all." Steve, That is not all. Not only did the seller start a new listing with a BIN, but Bob never asked for the seller to end the original auction listing. From where I sit, Bob did absolutely nothing wrong. He was just lucky to be the first to see the BIN this morning. Wes

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11-11-2008, 10:07 PM

Posted By: MatthewHoly S***!! $500? Are you kidding me? And did I see someone write above that the seller left money on the table?! If so then I need to get to selling some Zeenuts. My Bernard looks every bit as nice as that one. Is this one really that rare?

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11-12-2008, 06:11 AM

Posted By: Tony AndreaMy thoughts on this matter are as follows: I believe both collectors involved are good people in our hobby. No card, and I mean "no piece of cardboard" what so ever should ever come between two comrades. Paper product is replaceable, friendships however, are not...... Tony A.

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11-12-2008, 06:58 AM

Posted By: Scott M.They are who we thought they were... Not a commentary on either of the parties involved as I consider them both good hobby friends. I just couldn't resist thinking of that Dennis Green line from the Coors Lite press conference commercials when seeing the title <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-12-2008, 07:23 AM

Posted By: Brian McQueen In all sets, you're going to come across cards that are more difficult to find than others. However, you don't really know about those cards from the onset, rather you discover them as you go along and gain experience working with those particular cards. The 1911 Zeenut set is no different. Right now, there are several collectors a few cards away from completing the set. However, those "few cards" tend to be the same ones in most cases. Bernard is simply one of those. This isn't to say the Bernard will still be popular after 2-3 people get one for themselves, but for right now, it's a pretty hot card. I certainly stand my my earlier comment of the seller having left money on the table. I would have gone higher than $500 and I think Steve might have considered it too.

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11-12-2008, 08:31 AM

Posted By: AnonymousAm I the only one that noticed, the buy it now happened 55 seconds after the second listing was posted?

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11-12-2008, 08:40 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDamn defense lawyers steal all the great cards. Bob, that card could have gone to a more deserving, less capitalistic bastard than yourself. I personally know seven illegal, hard-working immigrants who would have loved that card. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-12-2008, 08:49 AM

Posted By: Jim VB"I personally know seven illegal, hard-working immigrants who would have loved that card." And they will get their turn when the great "redistribution" comes! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif">

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11-12-2008, 08:49 AM

Posted By: Rob D.Bob, Were you instructed to send one payment of $500 to the seller or 10 $50 payments to different people?

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11-12-2008, 11:54 AM

Posted By: EvanI think another thing you have to consider is that on buy it now items the seller is being charged 12% plus paypal fees. It does cause the seller to consider not only ending an auction early, but to also selling offline. On mid priced items the fees are a killer.

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11-12-2008, 03:47 PM

Posted By: BobGood question why Bernard is worth so much and why he is missing from so many collections of Zeenuts. I found out yesterday for the first time- apparently about 10 years ago the family of the late Mr. Bernard began earnestly and ruthlessly buying every single 1911 Zeenut Bernard card in existence much as what is going on with the Millers currently and which has driven the price of the Zeenut Miller card in to the stratosphere for anyone unfortunate not to have one. The quirky difference is that ALL Millers, Obaks and Zeenuts, are being hoarded by the grandson, not just the 1911 Zeenut Bernard. I believe that I have Bernards in my Obak sets (I'd have to look to make sure) and I am sure they were not especially difficult and I just paid a common price for them. I guess we'll never know for sure why Fullertons and Lindseys are so frigging hard to find without more knowledge about distribution, etc. It does seem like almost all of the Portland players in the 1911 set are among the toughest to find and both are Portland players. Seaton, Shinn, Rapps, all those Portland cards are tough...

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11-12-2008, 03:48 PM

Posted By: MattLindsay is actually the same reason - the family buys up his cards when they can.

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11-12-2008, 04:17 PM

Posted By: BobMatt- That's interesting but why wouldn't the Obak Lindsey be higher priced too?

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11-12-2008, 05:19 PM

Posted By: Dan Koteleswhat is their a point ?

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11-12-2008, 05:51 PM

Posted By: MattBob - the Lindsay who has an Obak is not Bill Lindsay; It is John Lindsay.