Check your T222 Fatima backs... [Archive]

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11-09-2008, 11:29 AM

Posted By: JimiI've come across 4 or 5 of my backs being No. 42s rather than the normal No. 25 factory backs, which I have 35 or so of those. Anyone know the story on this? Is there at least some scarcity on the 42s? I have 3 of the McInnis T222s, 2 are the 25s and the other is a 42 back. And.......is there a third factory back that I simply don't have? Alright folks....let's dig through your stacks of Fatimas, and let me know what you see! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> Jimi

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11-09-2008, 11:41 AM

Posted By: AnonymousAll of mine are Factory No. 25.

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11-09-2008, 11:44 AM

Posted By: JimiI just rechecked what I have and I only have 3 of the 42 variation in my set with them being the Alexander "RC", Maisel, and the Lobert SP. I also have a lower grade McInnis in a 42. Anyone else? Thanks for your input, Brian. Jimi

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11-09-2008, 11:44 AM

Posted By: jdrumJimi, I have 6 Fact. 25s and 1 Fact. 42s. Jeff

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11-09-2008, 11:44 AM

Posted By: JimiWho's the Factory 42, Jeff? Jimi

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11-09-2008, 11:52 AM

Posted By: Rob D.Leibold is my lone T222. Factory No. 25.

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11-09-2008, 12:06 PM

Posted By: jdrumThe lone fact. 42 is Jack Lapp.

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11-09-2008, 04:33 PM

Posted By: JimiYes, Rob...a Leibold that I would love to have! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> I'd love to hear from Mike Peich, Bill Cornell, and any others on their Fatima collections. Jimi

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11-09-2008, 05:04 PM

Posted By: Fred CI found two (Orr and McInnis) out of ten with factory 42. Interestingly, I have dupes of Orr. I have Orr with a factory 25 and factory 42 back.

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11-09-2008, 05:20 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellMine are about 20% NC (Fact. 42) and the rest VA (Fact. 25). Fred's discovery about Orr applies, I think, to all T222's: they were printed in both factories. This is like the T207 factory question, i.e., it doesn't really matter, since just finding the tough cards is enough of a challenge. All of the toughest T222's I have (Lelivelt, Johnson, L.Magee, Henry) are all VA backs, by the way. Bill

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11-09-2008, 05:28 PM

Posted By: Fred CI was wondering when you'd chime in Bill. The first place I looked after reading this thread was T207.COM

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11-09-2008, 06:37 PM

Posted By: JimiI couldn't agree with you more, Bill. I guess this thread is really just "food for thought". I think though that what we are seeing so far is that the 42s are harder to get than the 25s. I guess though, if someone had a type card collection going and cared about the backs, they may want to know that there are different backs to the Fatimas. Jimi

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11-09-2008, 06:44 PM

Posted By: JimiFor those who care, here is a photo of the Fatima cigarette factory, owned by W. Duke and Sons, located near Main and Duke streets in Durham, North Carolina. Built in 1884, the old factory is now two floors. Circa 1910. <img src="http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/jimivintage/FatimaNC.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> Jimi

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11-09-2008, 07:18 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHey Bill. My understanding is that it is not that the factory 25 VA cards are more difficult, but that the later series are more difficult. Seems to me that by the time Fatima was packaging the later series cards with packages of cigarettes that factory 42 NC had abandoned using cards altogether. I think factory 42 NC cards are the more difficult of the two factory possibilities. And those higher series cards are quite difficult. For a few years I tried to get a Lelivelt Fatima card, but in recent years the demand for the card has grown to the point that I doubt I ever manage to buy one. I always like seeing scans of the Lelivelt card. FW

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11-09-2008, 09:03 PM

Posted By: Bill CornellNo question that the VA Fact. 25 backs are found much more often (5-10x) than the NC Fact. 42 ones, but unless someone can show otherwise, I think that all cards were printed in both locations. The higher the bottom-left corner number, the tougher the T222, which makes the "15"'s the toughest of them all. I just checked and both Lelivelt cards I've owned are from the VA factory. Maybe the NC factory dropped out early, as Frank suggested. <img src="http://www.t207.com/images/other/lelivelts.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

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11-09-2008, 09:23 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldI think that all T222s were produced in one location. Then they were shipped to the two factories. I can't see a cigarette factory getting into the photography development / printing business. Kinda like American Litho making all of those T206s, then sending them hither and yon.

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11-10-2008, 08:57 AM

Posted By: MartyI have 18 out of 61 with Factory 42 backs. Alexander Austin Bresnahan Burns x 2 Bush Lapp McInnis Marquard McLean Murphy Orr Perdue Schang x 2 Strunk Sweeney x 2 The borders seem to be darker on the 25's over the 42's on the ones that I have both of. The Bresnahan is darker where I can see the border, but on the left the border is not there on the 25. Too small of a sample to decide anything. I also added my Lelivelt. <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1226335835.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1226335922.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1226335941.JPG" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1226335954.JPG" alt="[linked image]">

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11-10-2008, 06:22 PM

Posted By: JimiWow...awesome Lelivelt! Jimi