View Full Version : Are Large Bordered Baseball Cards Worth a Premium?
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10-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think we had this discussion a while ago, but it's worth revisiting.<br /><br />I was glancing at Leon's E135 Cobb and my first reaction was "look at the huge borders on that card." There are many ways a card can be described to stress its best points, and large borders should be an integral part of it. Rare stamps with huge borders are worth an enormous premium, and baseball cards should be no different.<br /><br />When I write up auction lots and have a card with giant borders, I always make sure to mention it. And I can't imagine a single collector who wouldn't enjoy a big card over a narrow one, and by a wide margin (pun intended).
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10-24-2008, 01:23 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>"Are Large Bordered Baseball Cards Worth a Premium?"<br /><br />To me- Yes...<br />
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10-24-2008, 01:32 PM
Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>Unfortunately, we all know what has happened to so many of the older cards that used to have large borders. Nothing says "not tampered with" like a big honkin' borders.
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10-24-2008, 01:42 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Anthony- that's of course a major issue.<br /><br />Stamp collectors would pay more for a used stamp with "boardwalk" borders, than a mint one whose design was off center and touching the perforations.<br /><br />But when a baseball card is described it's always about the square corners, with centering of course a smaller issue. But the size of the card is rarely mentioned. I think in the future this may become more of a selling point.
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10-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>Putting aside the issue of increased value due to the opportunity to unscrupulously alter the card, from a purely collector's viewpoint, I've never understand why an oversized card should be more desirable than an regulation-size card. A regulation-size well-centered card means it was perfectly cut to specification. An over-sized card means it was imperfectly cut. Conceptually why should imperfection result in a greater value than perfection? Certainly with under-sized cards it does not, regardless of concerns about trimming.<br><br>
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10-24-2008, 02:14 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Oversized cards do not sell for a premium, and perhaps never will. But well centered oversized stamps can sell for 10x or more what an average stamp sells for.<br /><br />I think Anthony's point is well taken. With so many microtrimmed cards on the market, an oversized one should give a buyer more confidence. Subjective of course.
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10-24-2008, 02:24 PM
Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p><<Conceptually why should imperfection result in a greater value than perfection?>><br /><br />Question brings to mind the inverted Jenny error stamp. In some fields, errors always bring a (usually high) premium.
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10-24-2008, 02:25 PM
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>"... I've never understand why an oversized card should be more desirable than an regulation-size card."<br /><br />I am sure you have certain attributes you look for in antiquities you buy. I look for large borders as they are more pleasing to me. I am not always able to get cards with those larger borders but when I see a card I want with them I will pay a little more. Maybe it has to do, subconsciously, with the fact there are many small bordered, high grade cards in the hobby that have been "played" with. Big borders are sort of a safeguard (not foolproof but the bigger the better)so I value them more. For the record I do have cards with small borders too (as most do). regards
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10-24-2008, 02:32 PM
Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>David,<br /><br />That is a fair point. But, at least for the example you give, what the premium is being put on is rarity and the fact that the imperfection has created an altogether different stamp. With oversized cards, the card is the same as the regulation-size counterpart. <br><br>
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10-24-2008, 02:50 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Corey- in the case of the "Jumbo Wagner" the card was a bit misshapen and that might bother some collectors.<br /><br />But picture an oversized card that is perfectly shaped and perfectly centered. I think there are many collectors who would pay a premium for it.
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10-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>What you say is true, Corey. But aren't oversized-border cards more scarce?
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10-24-2008, 03:14 PM
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>There are a number of slabbed high-grade pre-war cards that measure slightly less than "typical size". I am not suggesting that many / all of these are trimmed or altered, but there are a number of undersized pre-war cards that have, by one means or another, made their way into a graded card holder. My experience is that, generally, these cards sell for a slight to noticeable discount on a regular sized or oversized example.<br /><br />Acknowledging the counterpoint basically proves the first point, in my opinion.<br /><br />The best examples of this include a number of very high grade T-206 commons that were in a dealer's inventory and on Ebay earlier this year. A large number of them were fixed price listings, so simply did not sell. But some of their regular sized counterparts did transact.<br /><br />Marc<br /><br />
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10-24-2008, 05:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Steve Dawson</b><p>Another concern with oversized cards is the fact that, at least with modern star/HOFer cards, the oversized nature of the card can indicate that it was cut from a sheet after leaving the factory. Admittedly, this is much less of a concern with pre-WWII cards, since the sheets simply don't exist; but it's still something to be wary of.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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10-24-2008, 06:01 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Guys,<br /> I've been collecting the big boarders for years....<br /><br /><img src="http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/hogan6g/Scan0025-1.jpg"><br /><br /><br /> Be well Brian
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10-24-2008, 06:12 PM
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Great scan! What percentage of T206 large border cards do <i>not</i> have a secondary name on the card? Any perspective?
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10-24-2008, 06:15 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>The top row of cards on a sheet would not have a name above the picture.<br /><br />Hey Brian- great Waddell. How are you doing?
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10-24-2008, 06:21 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Marc,<br /> I would guess that 8-10% of T206's come with "over sized" borders, but only the cards at the top of a sheet would exist without the extra type.<br />I have between 75-100...<br /> Here are a few more....<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/hogan6g/Scan0027-1.jpg"><br /><br /><img src="http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/hogan6g/Scan0028.jpg"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> Be well Brian<br /><br />PS The number of "short cut" T206's is in the same range.
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10-24-2008, 06:23 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Barry,<br /> I'm doing fine... Thanks for asking... But I have been really busy.<br /><br /> Be well Brian<br /><br />PS Is it getting cold in NY?
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10-24-2008, 06:25 PM
Posted By: <b>Dan Koteles</b><p>I have 2 Jumbo Tinker ports that cannot be for sale ever
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10-24-2008, 06:27 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Yep- 40's and 50's. Fall is in the air.
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10-24-2008, 06:37 PM
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Barry,<br /> Nice looking auction.... Good luck. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br /><br />PS Festivus is right around the corner...
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10-24-2008, 06:42 PM
Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>Sorry -- I guess the underlying question I was getting at was this: since we know that only those at the top of a sheet would have no extra type on an oversized example, I was wondering if, considering that you had seen ~100 examples, perhaps the percentage w/o extra type might lead to some logical deductions as to what a T-206 Sheet size may have been.<br /><br />M
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10-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Brian would have a better idea than me on that one.
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10-24-2008, 08:11 PM
Posted By: <b>Doug Moore</b><p>My humble contribution...<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1224900663.JPG">
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10-25-2008, 12:42 AM
Posted By: <b>Dean H</b><p>I too dig the larger borders.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1224916857.JPG">
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10-25-2008, 04:51 AM
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Every big bordered baseball card posted on this thread looks terrific, and I think I've proven my point. I do believe in the future they will command a larger premium.
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10-25-2008, 08:17 AM
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Marc,<br /> Unfortunately the sample of 100 cards is way too small and diverse to give a definitive answer to the question. While most of the oversized examples I have seen are from the 350 series, they are spread out between several different brands, namely Piedmont, Sweet Cap, and Old Mill. Additionally, the evidence presented by several mis-cut cards suggest that there were several different player combinations on any given sheet, making it next to impossible to ascertain the size and layout of a sheet.<br /> I do think other factors such as the number of Hindu Southern Leaguers, the 150 only cards, as well as the Sweet Cap 649 overprints point us in the direction of a sheet with some multiple of 12. I know of one group of printers scrap that contains 5 cards that fit together perfectly, but haven't seen a larger number than that.<br /> I'm sure Ted, Art, Jamie, Judson, Joshua, Scot and others will chime in on there thoughts on the "$64,000 question".<br /> Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS Barry, I've been paying a premium for Big boarders for quite sometime. <br /><br />