There Used To Be A Ball Park [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

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09-14-2008, 02:51 PM

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind For the past 25 years, we have been most fortunate to share wonderful Yankee season tickets. In fact this October it will be 50 years since we attended our first Yankee game. Today, barring a major winning streak miracle. we saw our last game at the original Yankee Stadium. Whilst it made us both nostalgic and sad, it also reminded us to watch the wonderful Frank Sinatra Video of our all time favorite song.... "There Used To Be A Ball Park" As a life long fan of early baseball and baseball history, we are quite sure that you will enjoy the You Tube video (link below) Link; <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1sKMHUE6co" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1sKMHUE6co</a> Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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09-14-2008, 02:57 PM

Posted By: doug goodmanThank you, Bruce

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09-14-2008, 03:01 PM

Posted By: george gogolSome awesome photos and great song! Thanks for sharing the tribute to some true American relics.

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09-14-2008, 03:14 PM

Posted By: David AtkatzWho took you to that first game, Bruces? You? (My first game was at the Stadium 49 years ago last June--Lou Gehrig's 56th birthday. My dad and uncle took me.)

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09-14-2008, 03:16 PM

Posted By: barrysloateBruce- will you renew yout seats in the new stadium at those grossly inflated prices?

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09-14-2008, 03:28 PM

Posted By: Mark LNice. When you get to the link, on the right side, there is a tribute to Comiskey Park, which I recommend to those who saw some games there. As a wise man once said, oh you can't beat fun at the old ballpark.

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09-14-2008, 03:35 PM

Posted By: john/z28jd<<<<Who took you to that first game, Bruces? You?>>>>> 4 box seats to Yankee Stadium....$800 1 hot dog,1 soda and 1 #1 foam finger...$35 taking you and yourself to your first baseball game...priceless My first baseball game ever was the 1982 Old Timers game at Yankee stadium. We had left field upper deck seats but my grandfather talked to some people and we switched to a few rows behind the first base dugout. About 23 years later I got a picture of that day from the Yogi Berra Museum,a lineup of the players from behind that included in order DiMaggio,Mantle,Maris,Berra,Ford and Rizzuto

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09-14-2008, 03:45 PM

Posted By: ali_lapointi was at the game today as well. great to see david price make his MLB debut. hate the fact that you can actually stand in the same batters box as gehrig and ruth and all the yankees see is dollar signs.

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09-14-2008, 07:14 PM

Posted By: SteveI was under the impression the 'original' Yankee Stadium was 1923-1975 this Stadium is a remodeled version. 1976-2008 But then again I am a stickler for detail. Steve

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09-14-2008, 07:51 PM

Posted By: CN Steve I agree with you. There was the original Yankee Stadium which closed in 1973(remember 461 to Centerfield) then the second Yankee Stadium which opened in 1976. I wonder how Bruce feels about moving across the street to a Brand new ballpark. I am sad about how the game is all about the money and the Yankees moving from what I consider Sacred Ground all for money. I remember 15 years ago when they said people were afraid to go to the Bronx to watch the Yanks because it was unsafe and inconvenient to drive to. 4 World Championships later and every game is sold out and they own their own TV network. CN

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09-14-2008, 09:06 PM

Posted By: Lee BehrensI have been to over 20 of the major league parks. Two of them that I had no desire to go back to were the 2 NY stadiums, they both did nothing for me as a baseball fan, even with the history tied to Yankee Stadium. Now I want to go see the new stadiums. If you ever hear people talk about Ebbets Field in its final years there was not much good to say about it. But now the stadium is revered. I think we all get ideas in our head and want to remember the best, which is great, but there also is reality and they both needed new stadiums. Lee

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09-14-2008, 09:29 PM

Posted By: Mark EvansThanks, Bruce. Hard to beat the combination of baseball and Sinatra. Not having grown up in a major league city (Norfolk), the only game I attended as a kid was on a trip to Griffith Stadium. I've often thought about trying to track down the boxscore. All I can recall is that the Senators were beat by Cleveland by a score of 12 - 2 and Vic Power hit a home run. It might have been around 1960. Is anyone aware of a website that would be helpful? Thanks. Mark

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09-14-2008, 09:43 PM

Posted By: Frank WakefieldHey Bruce, Do you know yet what the plan is for season ticket holders? Is there going to be a PSL sale, a lottery for seats, something close to what you had... Just curious as to how that will be done. And I wonder what the Mets are doing in that regard, too. Frank.

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09-14-2008, 09:58 PM

Posted By: Max WederMark You can track down the box score at <a href="http://www.retrosheet.org" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.retrosheet.org</a> Max

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09-14-2008, 10:14 PM

Posted By: Mark EvansThanks, Max.

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09-14-2008, 11:15 PM

Posted By: Joe BrennanI saw something about season ticket holders that has had the same seats for 40 years. He showed his invoice for tickets in the 70's. $2.00 a seat per seat for 4 season tickets. He just received an invoice for next years season tickets for the same seats in the new stadium. $2500.00.. Not to bad huh? Oh wait, did I mention that's per seat. Not too bad. Oh wait did I mention per GAME!!!!!!!!!! Oh wait, did I mention free food and free parking to go along with these seats. WOW, those are great perks. Invoice total for this 40 year fan. $810,000.00 for 1 season. He refuses to pay. Were do I sign up? I can't wait to see all the lucky families that get to go to the new stadium this year. Let me tell you where they can shove these tickets. The average person can no longer afford baseball and I hope they price themselves right out of business. AAA ball will be the average fan with the average incomes only alternative. The Major Leagues is filled with over paid .200 hitters than have no idea how lucky the are. Most couldn't dig ditches any better than they hit. I blame the owners and the fans that continue to support an inferior product. I can't wait till the next strike when these pompous players state that they can't feed their families on $1 million a year. Aww, I feel for them. Now back to the regular childish discussions. In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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09-15-2008, 01:02 AM

Posted By: Mark LTry this link for starters <a href="http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/teams/1960senators.stm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/teams/1960senators.stm</a> It mentions a game on Friday July 12th that fits the bill.

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09-15-2008, 03:37 AM

Posted By: Pcelli60 The old Stadium. The place in which the Ghosts roamed- was disposed of after the 73' season. This current place is dramatically different. Really not at all the same..

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09-15-2008, 05:00 AM

Posted By: Bruce DorskindA number of people have inquired about the dramatic rise in Yankee ticket prices. The Yankees, when they built a new stadium. made a fundamental decision that those ticket holders (about 1500 folks) who had the best seats in the 55,000 seat stadium would experience a dramatic rise in prices. Remember folks this is New York. Many firms have receptionists earning $80,000 to $100,000. Dinner at a coffee shop and a movie for two is $120 A modest two bedroom apartment on the Upper West or Upper East Side rents between $5,000 and $10,000 per month. New York can not be compared to the rest of the country The opportunity to earn millions is greater here than the rest of America combined but with a city income tax, state income tax, sky high prices and cut throat competition for everything from a seat in temple, a pair of Manolos (Sex and the City) to a hailing a taxi, you either love or leave it Over the past five years (2004-2008) the face value of our Yankee tickets has gone from $80 to $110 to $150 to $250. It appears that next season (they have redesigned the seating arrangements) tickets will be somewhere between $325 and $750. While we think that is a "hefty" raise in prices, this is America- and if you want to have an $50M infield (remember the A's of the the early 1900's and their $100,000 infield) and $150M pitching staff (we look forward to having Ben and CC pitch in the Big Apple) somebody has to pay for it. We read Joe Brennan's post. His story is true... However, that was one person's opinion. Everyone is surprised by the scope of the increase, but the Yankees will sell out. With a little bit of luck we will field the best team in baseball. As fans we know winning is everything and when you want the best...just like ultra high grade baseball cards there is a price to pay. Bruce Dorskind America's Toughest Want List

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09-15-2008, 05:13 AM

Posted By: barrysloateBruce- here's another way to look at it: When you pay a few thousand dollars for a couple of seats on a cold and drizzly day in April against the Kansas City Royals, do you think you are getting your money's worth? Here's a second way: baseball is America's game (as we like to call it), and going to a game is a chance for fathers to take their sons, and for families to bond. Given the cost of seats, don't you think it will be more like corporations bonding with their key clients? It is what it is, but it certainly isn't pretty. I for one will never buy a ticket again for any New York sports team, save the Brooklyn Cyclones.

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09-15-2008, 05:41 AM

Posted By: Rob RayWow Bruce...$120 for dinner for 2 at a coffee shop and a movie? Surely you jest,or were inflating prices while making your point. I've lived in NY for many years and make a decent living,but never have I paid THAT much for dinner for 2 at a coffee ship and a movie for 2. And renting a "modest" 2-bedroom for 5- 10K per month? I lived on the Upper West Side for a long time,and now live in Hipster Haven (Brooklyn),both overpriced to the max,but have never paid anywhere NEAR that much in rent for a decent 2-bedroom. Perhaps if I lived in Trump Tower?? I hate the "love it or leave it" philosophy many NYers (not me) espouse. I make my living here,I can afford to live here with my family,but will certainly not stay here upon my looming retirement. I'll miss the great restaurants and the convinience of nearby-culture,but that's about it. I've also been a Mets fan for 40 years,and will not be party to being overpriced with their 2009 Citi Field ticket plans. Every game I go to now...(and I've been to plenty of games at Yankee Stadium as well as Shea,because at heart I'm a fan of the game)...I am surrounded by corporate glad-handlers who spend most of the game making deals on their blackberries and wouldn't know how to "score" a game if they studied it for a week. They arrive late and leave early,no matter the score. THOSE are the fans the modern corporations want.Correct me if I'm wrong,but didn't the taxpayers pay for most of the new Yankee Stadium? Why,then do the Steinbrenners need to raise the prices to ridiculous amounts? I guess...simply because they CAN. Same for the Wilpons and my Mets. There USED to be a ballpark here...the old Shea and Yankee Stadium. The new parks can keep their corporate shill seats.

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09-15-2008, 05:52 AM

Posted By: CoreyRS.hanusProfessional sports ticket pricing (with New York and the Yankees being prime examples) is a ruthless display of "if somebody will pay it, we'll charge it". Concern for the ability of Joe fan to afford the seat (or the exhorbitantly priced hot dogs and liquid refreshment) is irrelevant. I gave up my Yankee seats in the early '90's incensed at another hefty price increase (to about $13) after another lousy season. Those seats today have a face value of $65, and my guess next year is the face will be over $200. The New York Giants are bemoaning how sad they are to "be forced to" charge a license fee for the right to buy season tickets. They justify the fee as the only way to afford the astronomical cost overruns on their new stadium. Last I heard, though, I don't recall fans demanding a new stadium be constructed. Same too with other teams. Those stadiums are being constructed to suck as much corporate revenue as possible from the exisiting fan base; I strongly suggest the great majority of average fans would be very happy to stay in the old stadiums and the old prices. I for one am so incensed by the blatant greed of the owners and players (when was the last time you got an authograph without having to pay for it) in all sports that I only go to games to satisfy the desires of my son. If it wasn't for him, I would tell all these professional teams where they can go and what they can do with their new stadiums, many of which are financed with my tax dollars. The ability of professional sports owners and players to earn such incredible sums is based on the goodwill of their fan base. And I can't imagine these owners/players doing a better job of alienating the next generation of sports fans through their ticket and concession pricing. The real money in professonal sports is in the fees network pay to telecast games. The fees are a direct reflection of the size of viewership, which consists much more of average fans than corporate fatcats. Wouldn't it be great to see that fan base decline in future years due to the shabby condescending treatment they receive from the teams they support, with a concurrent decline in licensing fees?

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09-15-2008, 06:02 AM

Posted By: barrysloateCorey- I find it interesting that the New York metropolitan area has three new stadiums being built simultaneously. I'll admit Shea is a bit rundown, but Yankee Stadium is a national relic. What was so imperative about tearing it down and rebuilding? To justify tripling and quadrupling the ticket prices? It would be great if enough fans stopped buying tickets to make a dent in a team's bottom line. But as the Yankees and others know, corporations will step up and grab those seats. Like I've said, I'll watch the games on TV (until the inevitable happens and they take that away from us too).

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09-15-2008, 06:08 AM

Posted By: LetsGoBucsTo build on the last post....actually I think the fan base is declining. And those sports that become disconnected with the young folks that actually play their sport will suffer in the long run. I do believe that the clubs should be allowed to charge whatever they like.....But along with that then they can finance their own ballparks (which are nothing more than a business investment that they have successfully gotten others to fund for free). Its like me deciding that a town is big enough for a McD's...and I convince the city council to build the McD's for me and I go out and hire the workers and order the food...and tell the people that, well yes I'm earning a lot of money, but the town is so much better off now that it has a McD's.....after all if I close then people will think this is a really small town and businesses won't want to locate themselves here <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> There is a chance that the ability for people to resell their tickets via the internet might spur some changes in both availability and some resistance to the prices clubs charge. If those that pay $50 per ticket find that when they don't go to the game they can only get $10 per ticket they might think twice about buying the season ticket.

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09-15-2008, 06:34 AM

Posted By: Bruce DorskindRob Ray Movie tickets for two if you buy on line $28 dinner at a coffee shops for two is somewhere between $75 and 100 without liquor Main course are $25-30 each - at least they are at the coffee shops on Madison Avenue in the 70s While it sounds like crazy...we were not really exaggerating. As for rents- any building with a doorman and concierge services 2 bedrooms under $5000 would not be found. To pay less you are talking about a third floor walk up That's New York Bruce

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09-15-2008, 06:56 AM

Posted By: leonI have always been just about the only one on the board that doesn't follow baseball, or any professional (major) league sport, avidly. Corey pretty much nailed how I feel. Our family will take in a few baseball AA league games of the Frisco Roughriders this year..... 1. Closer to home= less money on gas and less driving 2. Tickets- about $10-$15 ea, maybe less. 3. Hot dogs, sodas, and a souvenir- $20 total (for all 3 of us) 4. Parking- free and about 200 yds away..... 5. No fee to reserve any seat to buy the ticket (crazy) AND to boot the young guys look like they are playing and having fun at the same time.....Need I say more!!

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09-15-2008, 07:04 AM

Posted By: boxingcardman"This is America...business is free to profit at will from its own hard work" is all well and fine but it is a big, fat corporatist lie. Yankees Stadium is being built on a foundation of public money and tax breaks. What do you call a diversion of tax money into private hands? If it is $600 a month to feed a kid, you call it welfare; if it is $450 million to subsidize a private enterprise, you call it capitalism as usual. The stadium is typical corporate welfare: socialize the costs, privatize the profits. The city's share includes allowing the Yankees to occupy 22 acres of Macombs Dam Park and John Mullaly Park (which is already used for stadium parking on game days), and to build parking garages on those parks. City-funded artificial surface will be placed on top of those parking garages to make up for the lost parkland. The parking garage project cost: $320 million. The city foregoes rent and property taxes on the garages. No property taxes? Sweet! Demolition costs for the historic Yankee Stadium? Public money too. New York state taxpayers will pay $70 million to help the Yankees build parking garages (as authorized by the State Legislature). City and State taxpayers will forgo up to $7.5 million annually in lost taxes resulting from the sale of $225 million in tax-exempt bonds authorized on October 9, 2007, by the New York City Industrial Development Agency (administered by the New York City Economic Development Corporation) to finance construction and renovation of the parking garages. If the parking revenues are not enough to pay a reported $3.2 million land lease to the City of New York, the entity that will operate the parking garages and collect revenue will be able to defer that payment. All told, the Yankees and the taxpayers can each expect to pay about $450 million, and the Yankees will cover the remaining costs from diverting revenue sharing payments that would have been paid to the other baseball teams [under the CBA they can deduct stadium costs from the luxury tax. If I lived in NYC I would be very, very pissed too. Being priced out of a private enterprise is one thing; being priced out of something my tax dollars are subsidizing is something else entirely. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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09-15-2008, 07:16 AM

Posted By: PCThere used to be an investment bank ... Actually, used to be 5 big investment banks. Now there are 2. I suspect there are far fewer buyers of $20 cups of coffee today than there were Friday. Not sure about Yankee tix, but the whole situation is ridiculous. As a taxpayer I guess I'm paying for it, even though I refuse to pay for it. And the new stadium fianncing arrangements are almost as complicated as the derivatives market, which virtually nobody understands, including the participants (as was proved by yesterday's ISDA "emergency session" fiasco).

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09-15-2008, 07:34 AM

Posted By: Rob RayCoffee shop? $75 to $100 per person? I've BEEN to some on the UES...no way. Maybe at a good restaurant,certainly. I've gone to the same movie theatres at either Kips Bay or W 84 st for a long time...it's still exhorbitant...but still $20 for 2. Admittedly not a big difference between $20 and $28. That's not ALL of NY. And we as NY ers certainly shouldn't be PROUD of price-gouging. I find it laughable that hipsters in my neighborhood are stumbling all over themselves to pay a mill for a small condo overlooking a gas station on McGuiness Blvd in Greenpoint. Are values are skewed!

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09-15-2008, 07:47 AM

Posted By: howardI've been to many diners all over NYC including the UES. If I ever got a bill of $100.00 for two I would have kicked the manager's ass.

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09-15-2008, 08:31 AM

Posted By: ali_lapointi work in new york and if i were take a date to the movies i'm looking at $24 and maybe another $15 for food at a coffee shop which would consist of what? bacon egg and cheese on an english muffin? here is my problem with the yankees new stadium. the yankees talk about how the rise in ticket prices will be due to the new amenities they are putting into the stadium to increase the average fan's enjoyment of the game and stadium. to that end the yankees talk about the sushi restaurants, mini bars, martini bars, lounges, a steakhouse, and indoor and outdoor food courts. my problem is this: who cares about those things? no real die hard baseball fan is going to pay to see a game and then spend the whole time in a lounge or martini bar watching the game on tv. if the yankees are already charging $10 for crappy chicken fingers and french fries, how much are they going to charge for a steak at the steakhouse? if its $9.50 for a crappy can of Bud how much is a martini at the martini bar going to be? they talk about all these great amenities but what they don't realize is that people go to yankee stadium to see a baseball game. they aren't going to a hotel or night club. i hope that all these great new amenities go bankrupt from lack of use. if the yankees wanted to make the game more enjoyable how about catering to the average fan who far outnumbers the sissies (sp?) who go to games for a martini?

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09-15-2008, 08:39 AM

Posted By: Bruce Dorskind Hi Rob We said movie tickets are 28 for two - 12.50 each + 1.50 service charge Dinner at a coffee shop - with regular entrees and either an appetizer or dessert and tea/coffee $35 person + tip is $75 Just to clear the air- still weigh high compared to the rest of the world All the best Bruce

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09-15-2008, 08:47 AM

Posted By: barrysloate$5 tip on a $70 meal...you can do better than that. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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09-15-2008, 09:24 AM

Posted By: CyI have to agree with Leon. Minor league baseball is a wonderful outing. I do like to go to major league games here and there (if you consider the Pittsburgh Pirates major league). But I take my daughter to the Hagerstown Suns games maybe 15 times a a year. We sit in the first row, right on third base, for $9 a ticket. My daughter gets two baseballs every game. We ask a player for a used one before the game so that she can get autographs on them and, because she is a cute 9 year old, they always give her one. Then during the game we either catch a foul ball or because we are so close, the third base coach usually throws a ball to her when he fields a foul ball. This is a lot of fun for a kid (big or small kid, meaning me, too). Then the cost of food and souvenirs is extremely fair. I can get out of there for $30-$40 including all fees and a chance for my daughter and I to talk with the players and coaches every game. The only thing that frightens me about the whole picture is that she may change her likes and not want to go to as many ball games in the future. So as long as my daughter enjoys these games, I will go to minor league baseball as often as I can. Let me tell you one other story. I have an older daughter who doesn't like baseball now. But on the first game that I took her, a player handed her a ball before the game (I didn't ask that time). So during the game I asked a scout behind home plate who was a good prospect so that we could get it autographed. He told me that the opponent's shortstop might be good. So after the game I asked the shortstop to sign it. Then I got his minor league baseball card, with the game ticket and the ball and put them all in one of those ball holder with a card holder as well. We put that aside for a while and forgot about it. Two years later I realized that the person that signed my daughter's ball from her first professional baseball game was Hanley Ramirez. Now this doesn't happen all of the time. But she got quite a nice remembrance of her first game with her dad. You just don't get close enough to major league players to any more to get these memories. Sincerely, Cy

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09-15-2008, 09:44 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanAli, apparently the "sissies" have the cash that the Yankees want. Edited to add: and who the hell goes out to dinner at a coffee shop in NYC? Even the Net 54 New York Dinner Thread participants can do better than that!!!

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09-15-2008, 09:46 AM

Posted By: Rob RayTrue Bruce...it's still expensive no matter what the price,and yes,that IS NY (unfortunately true: if you want to live here,you have to pay the price). To get back to the original topic, I LOVE that Sinatra song. One of my favs,and the link is great. Very touching. And to add to what Leon et al are saying,I,too LOVE going to minor league games all around the country...Albuquerque,Binghamton,New Haven,Norwich,Long Island,Newark,Montana...all over. Probably my wife's and my favorite past-time. I think I enjoy it more than the major league games,and not just because of the prices. Just seeing the guys on their way up to the Show (or down from it!),more of a hometown-feeling,and the best part...it's still baseball!!

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09-15-2008, 09:47 AM

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanSpeaking of minor leagues, the Brooklyn Cyclones have a great park -- Barry, have you been there yet?

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09-15-2008, 09:58 AM

Posted By: BobCollege baseball at Baum Stadium in Fayetteville, Arkansas- Tickets $10 each, refreshments about $8 each for a barbq sandwich, chips and a large coke. Parking free. Getting to watch Cliff Lee pitching for the Hogs, priceless. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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09-15-2008, 09:59 AM

Posted By: ali_lapointi remember hearing a story a few years ago about a minor league team whose general manager was a teenage kid, like young teenage. maybe 16? anyway, i remember reading about how this kid was a gimmick genius and brought a ton of people to the park with gimmicks. pretty unreal.

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09-15-2008, 10:18 AM

Posted By: barrysloateJeff- many times. I have a couple of friends with season tickets, and one of them has seats adjacent to the Cyclones dugout. I got to sit there once. Keyspan is a really cool park with Coney Island visible behind the outfield wall, but it only seats 7000 and is always sold out. They should have built it for 10,000 capacity.

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09-15-2008, 10:56 AM

Posted By: JoannWhat a great discussion. Seriously. Even though it is a bit of a thread hijack, it's great to see topics like this that really display the passion for baseball on this board along with the financial knowledge and opinion. I went to two games in Yankee Stadium in 2004. It was a great experience and all items - including beer - reasonably priced in my opinion. One thing that I was asbolutely struck by was how knowledgeable the fans were. I was surprised to hear them cheering and booing and generally reacting to some very subtle things within the game. In short, the crowd was largely filled with fans. Not that corporate account holders can't be fans, but these people were clearly there because of a rabid draw to the game itself. There was no doubt they were paying attention too, that's for sure. The problem with a transition to largely corporate ticket-holders is that that only works as long as going to a game remains an "in" thing - a trendy place to be seen. Most likely, as soon as the team isn't as good the glam factor will drop off and the corporate interest along with it. And ... that's when the Yankees will need the everyday fans. The true-blue fans of baseball or the Yankess that will carry the franchise through losing years, just as they always do. I sat in Comerica Park for 12 games the year the Tigers lost 119, and believe me there weren't a whole lot of corporate guys looking to impress clients there. So it may seem like a good idea to set prices that the market will bear, even if it seems clear that there are fewer individual buyers. But - like all professional franchises - the team should take care not to price out the individual middle-class fans that they will need as a core to get through the losing seasons. Joann Although .. this theory is completely kaput when it comes to the NFL. Seriously. Every game sells out. The Lions have sold out every game in Ford Field, and they suck. I guess if the brand is good enough, they really don't need a core. Maybe the Yankees will be one of the few baseball teams besides the Cubs to fit this mold.