Opinions please

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>At National, I was setup and a gentleman who I did not know came to the table, inquired about a few cards, negotiated a deal, and instructed me to hold them and he would send me a check as he was out of checks or something. OK, sounds normal so far. Then I get home and a few days later get a phone call from his secretary that he is no longer interested in these. Well that pissed me off as those cards were removed from my case for a few days and could have sold to another buyer. I emailed him and let him know that I thought that was very unprofessional and he wrote back stating he didn't appreciate my tone. I told him he was no longer welcome at my table at any show again.<p><br /><br />Am I wrong? Am I over reacting? Please give me your thoughts. Thanks Dan.

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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>I don't think you're overreacting at all. The fact that he didn't even bother to inform you himself, but rather pawned the task off on his secretary --- he negotiated the deal with you, not his secretary --- suggests he might have a slightly unfounded high opinion of himself.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>I believe I was standing there at the time the transaction was negotiated. Was the "buyer" S.S.?<br /><br />Anyway, no you have not over-reacted. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Matt</b><p>your response was measured and proportionate.

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Posted By: <b>Alan U</b><p>You have reason to be upset, but I think setting cards aside for someone at a show is always a risky business if you haven't dealt with them before. <br /><br />I once had a guy have me set aside some cards for him just to get them off my table as they were competing with his (as I found out later).<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Yes Steve, you must have been there, you hit that nail on the head!

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Posted By: <b>raymond g.</b><p>Could you have solicited a "down payment" maybe 10% to hold the cards, you would think he had some cash with him, or he could of used a credit card for the "down payment" to hold the cards. I would have explained that he would lose the "hold money" if he changes his mind. Just a thought. I have given "hold money" at shows and came back the next day with the total.

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Dan, you showed great restraint if that is all you did. Don't feel bad about doing what you did. Maybe a twinge of regret for not cutting loose on him a bit more. Sounds to me like the cards were sold, only payment and delivery remained. He broke the deal.

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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>A non-refundable deposit/credit. If they back out of the deal they can spend the deposit on your other inventory.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You have every right to be upset, but you should also understand that when a stranger promises to send you a check, and you have no deposit from him, the chance of the deal falling through is pretty high.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>This was NO stranger!!

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>I believe you can now sell them and legally he must make up the difference as actual damages. Provided that you find the best deal to mitigate losses.<br /><br />If you chosse to go that route, of course.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br />Eric<br /><br />In the original post Mr. McKee indicated the visitor to his both asked him to hold<br />the cards and he would send a check "or something." There was no firm commitment<br />indicating that the visitor to the booth, who was not known to Mr. Mckee, had formally<br />agreed to terms and promised that by a certain he would send a check.<br /><br />We believe that any attempt at a law suit would be dismissed as a directed verdict<br />against Mr. Mckee.<br /><br />Whilst one can appreciate the frustration of the situation, and Mr. McKee has a right<br />to be unhappy. grounds for a law suit and remuneration appear to be quite weak.<br /><br />Should you find differ with our position, we would appreciate it if you present a law <br />on the Illinois or Maryland books which substantiates your point. Furthermore, we would<br />like you to provide cases which support your position.<br /><br />We also wonder which state has jurisdiction and what court you plan to go to ask Mr. Mckee<br />and his attorney to file a suit.<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: <b>Mark Evans</b><p>I agree with Dan. The buyer did not live up to his end of the bargain and Dan has a right to be miffed. Mark

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Posted By: <b>Jim Manos</b><p>? HAVE SOME BALLS...

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Posted By: <b>bigfish</b><p>I think you did the right thing. You could have sold the cards you put aside. The very least this person could do is buy you a red bull and vodka at the PA show. I will be bringing you the Uncle Jacks. Please send me the list you need again.<br /><br />The Bacardi Bandit

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br />I do agree Dan that once you took those cards off to the side and made it impossible for anyone to pick them up that he should have kept to his end of the deal. And if it is someone known to this board or many off this board I'd be thinking about spilling the name...

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>Bruce, <br /><br />I disagree since he mentioned that a "price" was negotiated. <br /><br />A prudent person would consider check or "something" to refer to other payments such as Paypal, credit card, cash via Fedex, etc.<br /><br /><br /><br />Edited since I reread the original post. He was "out of checks or something" which is the reason he couldn't pay at that moment, but doesn't change the issues.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Great chat guys and I appreciate everyone's input. I will mention as Steve hinted above that this gent was not really a stranger as he has a high spending reputation it sounded like from what I heard of dialog between him and Steve at my table. I had never done business with him but he bargained me down off of my sticker prices and wanted to take the cards with him! I said no and that I would mail them as soon as payment arrived. If I had let him take them, the sale probably would have went through. I am guessing he got home and realized he spent more than he wanted to at the show and started cutting where he could. Though money doesn't seem to be a problem with this guy from what I was hearing of his PSA Registry. <p> Bruce and Eric, I can assure you that I will not be trying to sue anyone as I really didn't lose anything except a possible sale, these things happen in business. I was shocked by the egotistical reply I received from email after I voiced my disappointment. <P>Jim Manos, sorry but NO BALLS is correct, I only have 1, I lost my left one in 1988 to cancer. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>And I lost my left one to epididymitis in 1961. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Tim</b><p>Uno

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Sorry to hear about your misfortune--I'd be miffed too, but it looks like one of those "lessons learned".<br /><br />Bruces, don't quit your day jobs. A specific price was negotiated for specific merchandise--a court would apply commercially reasonable terms if there was ambiguity (or even silence) as to method of payment. IOW, it would not defeat a breach of contract claim to argue "will pay by check or something" is uncertain, unless, maybe, if the buyer tried to pay for the cards in goats and Dan wanted American currency, then there might be a question as to whether form of payment was a material term. The reference to a directed verdict is even less apropos, as there would certainly be a fact question with conflicting evidence so as to render such an outcome beyond unlikely.

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Posted By: <b>David Goff</b><p>Hey Dan<br /><br />Personally, since you were setting up for the show, I would have told him that I will hold the stuff for 24hrs and then placed them back for sale afterwards if he did not return in that time frame. He could have gone to an ATM to get cash if he did not have any on hand at the time. You have every right to be upset.<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Even I know who SS is so Dan has Balls. (at least one) The initials are more then enough for someone to figure it out.<br /><br />Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out (Or a Doctor for that matter) <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> (hint)<br /><br /><br />In any event I think you have every right to be miffed. And every right to not include the name.<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br /><br />Edited for clarity.

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Posted By: <b>Tim</b><p>I think being upset is warranted and the way the buyer went about canceling the sale showed a lack of class, however I agree as stated above he more than likely overspent or had buyers remorse and took the easy way out. <br /><br />Stay on the high road and keep the name to yourself. You show more class than him in doing so.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>both of you read that again, Bruce...<br /><br />"negotiated a deal"<br /><br />... and the deal was broken. <br /><br /><br />I am confident that would be the law in all jurisdictions in this country of ours.

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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>Bruce et al probably didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night and Frank is a Judge, I'd wager with Frank's opinion........plus he's a Kentuckian.........<br /><br />EVERY right to be miffed at the whole deal.

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Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>I once had a customer commit in writing to spend $25,000 with me. He sent his payment in the form of three checks (as there was more than one transaction), then abruptly stopped payment. His excuse seemed slightly valid but certainly no less of a headache on this end.<br /><br />Then there was the time when one collector kept chiseling me down on a piece. I knocked $200 off and we agreed on that. Then he demanded I kick in the S&H and insurance. Finally, it seems like we had a deal. Then, out of nowhere, he digs up the auction result from the company where I won the piece, and offers me a measly $100 more than I paid for the piece. His argument was that he "knew what [I] paid for it, so why should I pay so much more?". Perhaps because this is my source of income (and you're still getting a good deal)? I refused to budge, and he reluctantly sent the check out. While it was in the mail, he emails back and offers even <i>less</i> !!! You can imagine what I <i>wanted</i> to reply! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Once again, the fellow agreed in writing to the price. The next morning, I receive an email from him stating that he has stopped payment and no longer wants the piece. Six months later, he asks if he can have it at the original price. I didn't even bother responding.<br /><br />Long story short, the customer is not always right. I'm easy to deal with if you are!

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Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>It appears that arrogance is a quality common to a number of PSA HOF'ers. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Am I the only one stupid enough to not know who "SS" is?

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>But whoever it is, his behavior stinks. Card deals are like gambling debts; a gentleman honors them. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>No, you are not the only one who doesn't know who the mystery "ss" is. I thought I knew everybody too <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>....

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Posted By: <b>hrbaker</b><p>PSA Registry HOF

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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>There is only one PSA Registry HOF member with the initials S.S.<br /><br />Registry HOF = the hobby elite <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>dstudeba</b><p>Once you go back on your word, you have very little room to complain about the other party's 'tone'.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Never heard of him.

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>I know him. He's a very nice guy. Now having said that, he emailed me that he would come to my Friday night dinner at the National, since he wasn't going to the Mastro Live auction. When I saw him at the PSA luncheon on Friday at the National, he said hello to me, but never mentioned that he couldn't stop at Shoeless Joe's that night. Not a big deal really, but it's the principle, right ?

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Posted By: <b>Lance</b><p>Dan,<br />I think you under-reacted at best. Known or unknown is irrelevant. Either way, the secretary calling was in very poor taste. I am most sorry for your "ball", but happy for you to be a survivor!

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Posted By: <b>Jason L</b><p>but just to add my 3 cents (inflationary pressures)...I think you were right to be ticked off, and as long as he didn't have some hardship case and a truly apologetic tone (neither of which sounds true here), I wouldn't worry much about telling him off.<br /><br />all the sayings regarding how one wants to be treated seem to apply here.<br /><br />look at the bright side - you still have the cards, and the opportunity to sell them to a nicer person who may appreciate them more!<br /><br />(So, I can't believe no one has asked this yet: What cards were they!!!???)<br /><br />Edited to add:<br />Elliott wrote "It appears that arrogance is a quality common to a number of PSA HOF'ers"<br />you know, my lack of arrogance is actually what has kept me OUT of the PSA HOF. <br />True story, -Joey told me hisself over a reuben last Friday. Totally ineligible, apparently. He said, "Jason, you're just too nice a guy, I couldn't do it to ya. ...-That, and your collection is way sucky."

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, you should be pissed obviously and I believe you are in the right as well. I think that kind of stuff does happen a lot in life, however, and you just have to chalk it up to one of life's little frustrations. Obviously you're not going to pursue a lawsuit over it despite the plethora of lawyers (and make-believe lawyers) who no doubt would love to chase that ambulance down the street. Life's too short, lesson learned.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Thanks Jeff and fellow collectors. I am not sure you can get $3500 out of a bank machine in 1 day so that might not have been an option. This gentleman gave me his word that he would send a check and that was good enough for me. 99.9% of the people I deal with are great people. <p> I did not start this thread to oust him personally so I would appreciate if the above post with his name in it would be edited to remove it by the poster or Leon if you could star out the name I would greatly appreciate it, as we all make mistakes. Take care friends and I will see a bunch of you in Reading. Pop is joining me this time for Friday and Saturday. Dan.

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>OOPS! almost forgot, it was several York Caramel cards with HOFer's including Speaker I believe.